I was hoping I could get away with the POS 89 Mustang exhaust manifolds so I could save the huge expense of real headers for now. Next I'm going to get some adjustable motor mounts and try moving the engine back an inch or so to make the POS exhaust fit. If it works, great. If not, then I'll be spending about $800 for some ceramic coated long tubes and the adjustable mounts will come in handy anyway to make some room for the radiator and fan.
What is it they say? Take your projected budget and double it? This is about to start cutting into my supercharger fund.
A rough measurement of the old 69 Mustang driveshaft shows it to be just a little long. FYI, the AOD has a different yoke than the FMX. Obviously, I'm not going to have the driveshaft shortened until I get the engine mounting worked out.
Jeremy, I suggest you skip the adjustable motor mounts and just buy some headman shortie headers from Summitt for now. I think you can pick up some that will fit fine for about half the cost of those adjustable motor mounts.
These sell for $145
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James, that's a great idea. I had ruled out shorties when I was planning since I didn't want to buy any parts that weren't part of the long term plan (which is long tubes). However, I still want to go through the brakes and suspension after I get it drivable again. Also rear gears (thinking 4.10s) and some sort of traction aid. Plus rims/tires. Plus a stereo. Plus whatever else is broken.
On a project of this size it will be better to spend less now even though it will cost me more in the long run. Looks like el-cheapo shorties might be the way to go.
cool project, thanks for documenting it. I have a trashed 68 and an 87 5.0 with AOD and I'm planning the same thing. It will be very helpful.
Well, I'm here to help.
I'm really posting all this for Soaring. I think that deep (way, way, way deep) down inside he would like to see more projects like this. If I document mine, maybe more people will get the urge to do something similar.
This thread is really just notes as I go along, I'll eventually make a website for it. I've already got a domain name registered and right now I'm still trying to pick out a content management system I like.
3/8" steel line for the feed and 3/8" aluminum line for the return, both run under the passenger side of the car. A filter and then a low pressure electric pump at the tank, using the stock pickup tube and going to the 3/8". The tank has a drain so I could use that for the return. However, on this tank the drain is really exposed so I may pull out the sending unit and braze the return into it.
I'm considering mounting the surge tank under the hood (maybe in the corner under the passenger side hood hinge), using a design similar to this but made out of metal. I have a friend who owns a machine shop so I may talk to him about making me one in aluminum. Alternatively, I could make it out of steel pipe (but it would be heavy) or maybe an aftermarket coolant overflow tank. I like the idea of reusing the donor fuel pump. I'll also reuse the donor fuel filter setup and put it after the surge tank.
I can appreciate the time you spent on your fuel system, it's the part of your site I've spent the most time reading. And I've spent a lot of time there.
< Message edited by jcomp -- 8/4/2007 9:51:28 AM >
I think Mustangs Plus has a sending unit with a return in it for a reasonable price. Anyway, cool project. It's stuff like this that interests me. I know a lot of guys don't like making mods like this but when you take a less desirable model that would probably be parted out and make something sweet, well, more power to ya. Keep it coming! Craig
Lucky for me, the 69 already had a throttle cable setup. The hole in the firewall was the correct size and the old mounting bolt was in the correct position. The new cable had two mounting bolts. Maybe I'll put in another one, maybe not.
I didn't get a picture of the unmodified stock accelerator pivot rod. Here's what it looks like now:
I cut a slot in the top so the cable could pass through, flattened it out and drilled out the bottom of the hole. I used a dremel to make the rod end thinner, so that the green clip would snap into place and retain the cable to the rod.
Here it is connected:
I also had to adjust the angle of the pivot rod so that the pedal wasn't too high. This rod is made of pretty soft steel so it wasn't a problem.
< Message edited by jcomp -- 8/4/2007 11:39:07 PM >
I think Mustangs Plus has a sending unit with a return in it for a reasonable price. Anyway, cool project. It's stuff like this that interests me. I know a lot of guys don't like making mods like this but when you take a less desirable model that would probably be parted out and make something sweet, well, more power to ya. Keep it coming! Craig
I've seen the aftermarket efi sending units but $100 seems a bit steep for a regular $29 sending unit with 6" of tubing soldered through it. However, I would buy one if they came with provision to mount an in-tank low pressure pump (if such a thing even exists).
I am interested in these kinds of projects because they don't come with instruction manuals. I like to do my own thing and see how it turns out. This particular project may be headed down a well traveled path, but there's still a lot of room for interpretation. Especially since so many of the write ups involve buying stuff from Windsor-Fox who is apparently out of business. Good thing we still have Ron Morris.
This coupe would have been great to fill in a lot of the parts on a 69 sportsroof shell. I think it will be even greater to see it on the road every day, out in weather that would have the sportsroof car safely in the garage.
Glen's solution sounds like an example of where you're headed. The stock pump fits inside this custom built surge tank.
I hadn't seen that one before, thanks. It's interesting how these tanks have different names: surge tank, accumulator tank, swirl pot, header tank. It makes it difficult to see what everyone has done.
There's a couple of other sites where guys have taken a new gas tank and modified it to accept an later model mustang in tank fuel pump? Quite a bit of fabrication and welding. I'll dig those up if you're interested.
I went with the external high pressure pump more for ease of replacement than anything else. The BC Bronco's surge tank was (I thought) the easiest aftermarket solution.
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I'm trying to avoid any real fabrication I can, I want to make this project easily repeatable by almost anyone. That will lead to some rather inelegant solutions but as long as it's safe and it works then I'm OK with that.
I was really impressed with the BC Broncos surge tank. It is a very clever and cost effective solution. It looks like you could build it yourself for about $25. But I want to stay with the Mustang 5.0 pump because it's readily available and easily upgradeable. Plus I already have one that works. What would be really cool is if someone made a surge tank that allowed you to reuse the donor pump assembly. Pull the fuel pump assembly out of the donor tank and put it into the surge tank just like it's a small fuel tank. That would let you reuse the donor wiring connector and the fuel pump would be mounted as it was designed to be mounted.
Right now I'm leaning towards building the surge tank out of steel pipe because it's so cheap. If it doesn't work out then I will probably go with the external high pressure pump and fuel filter surge tank. How much noise do your pumps make?
I have one other question for you. With your engine in the stock location and with the AFCO radiator, how much room is there between the water pump and the radiator core? From looking at your pics and looking at this car, I'm wondering if there will be enough room for the mechanical clutch fan.
I made a mock radiator today out of foam to see what the clearance for the fan will be:
The foam piece is 24"X19"X2 7/8". As you can see, there isn't enough room for a 3" radiator with this fan. The fan is touching the foam. I've looked through the Hayden catalog and there is a shorter fan clutch listed that will give another 1/4" of room. This is probably enough space for the radiator to fit, but it will still be very close.
For the record, the donor fan assembly has a depth of 3.5". There is a distance of approximately 6 3/8" from the water pump pulley surface to the plane of the radiator mount. I wonder if this distance varies across the classic Mustang model years.
So... I've got a few other options. Looks like it's time to do some more searching and reading to see how other people have handled this problem. I'm not willing to go with a radiator that is smaller and I want to keep the clutch fan.
Here is the donor shroud added to the mix. With the mock radiator the shroud was too close to the engine pulleys and the fan was too far inside it.
Yes, the shroud is upside down.
It is unlikely I'll be able to use the donor shroud without modifications. Even if I go with the adjustable motor mounts and move the engine back 1.5", the fan will still be too far inside the shroud.
I bought the new fan clutch today. It is 1/4 inch shorter than the old one, so that worked out OK. The Hayden part number is 2737 and the application is a 90s Jeep something or other. $33 at Checker.
I also picked up a new fan because the donor fan is cracked. Dorman makes the fan, PN 620-112. $27 at Advance Auto.
Unfortunately, the new fan is thicker!
The new clutch and new fan fit even worse than the old assembly. Here's the new setup:
I put the old ford fan on the new clutch and there is enough room for the fan to spin without hitting the foam:
Looks like I can gain at least 1/2 inch of clearance with some moderate trimming of the radiator support. I'll give that a try next.
Just my opinion, but when the fan is that close I don't think the shroud is of much help. No time for the air to move around the blades when its that close. Its good finger protection though.
I'm at the fuel point too. I was really curious when I found this site! http://www.geocities.com/mstngmtt/Mustang/three.htm I can't get my hands on a cheap (read: disposable if it doesn't work) SN95 fuel pump and sending unit. Sounds like a great solution, but, I'm skeptical. #1, you think more people would have tried it, I'm most worried about the top mounting plate diameter. and #2, if all that works, wouldn't the sending unit use a different resistance? I'm going to phone some wreckers tomorrow.
Just my opinion, but when the fan is that close I don't think the shroud is of much help. No time for the air to move around the blades when its that close. Its good finger protection though.
I agree, a shroud on a fan that close probably doesn't do much. But with the fan that close it also limits the area of the radiator core that air is drawn through. I want to move the fan away from the radiator so that it pulls air through the entire core.
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ORIGINAL: JohnnyK
I'm at the fuel point too. I was really curious when I found this site! http://www.geocities.com/mstngmtt/Mustang/three.htm I can't get my hands on a cheap (read: disposable if it doesn't work) SN95 fuel pump and sending unit. Sounds like a great solution, but, I'm skeptical. #1, you think more people would have tried it, I'm most worried about the top mounting plate diameter. and #2, if all that works, wouldn't the sending unit use a different resistance? I'm going to phone some wreckers tomorrow.
The problem with putting the high pressure pump in the stock tank is that the inlet of the pump may become uncovered under acceleration and cornering. You would have to keep the tank about 1/3 full at all times to keep the engine from stumbling due to lack of fuel pressure. There are ways to work around this that involve modifying or replacing the stock fuel tank, but they get expensive quick.
Do you have any pictures of your EFI swap? I'd love to see them.
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