Posts: 11186
Joined: 9/16/2006 From: Fishers, IN Status: online
By the way....i did some digging and found a response from Doug about the similar questions.
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The adaptive learning truly has NOTHING to do with the WOT feel or Open loop operation of the car with a tune, or well most tunes. As described above most good tuners will turn off the ability of the car to apply learned a/f corrections to the WOT tables, now it will do this with the stock file. Still, this isn't the adaptive feature you are looking for.
There are a few values in the automatic that can cause it to learn how to shift softly, there is Torque Management on ALL new Mustang's and even early ones. This should be disabled in EVERY tune made, this isn't a value that can be selected from either Diablo or SCT's user options though. Nor can adaptive learning from the User options. This is something that has to be done in the custom tuning software.
Adaptive learning can be turned off but this will then limit the amount of learning the car can do for different situations. This can be a bad thing if you are going from different altitudes or even different climates. The car must have some sort of learning to be able to adjust for different conditions. Still this shouldn't make a huge power difference in that while in closed loop, or learning mode, it is trying to keep the engine as close to 14.64 as it can. This is where fuel trims come into play, they tell the tale of how much correction the PCM is making to keep the engine as close to 14.64 as it can by using the readings from the front 02 sensors. Normally +/- 5% is well within Ford factory specs. When these get to a point where it cannot adjust anymore then this is where you get the P015X or p017X code telling you the system is lean or rich. In other words the PCM has done as much correcting as possible and it cannot do it anymore. You have an issue is what its trying to say.
So, in short, truly there isn't a parameter that will turn your engines learning ability off completely, truly you dont want that anyway. I think that its something in the new Drive by wire system that is making the adjustment to the total amount of torque that the engine is allowed to make, this is how the DBW system works anyway, by commanding a set amount of torque by the pedal position. Its when the amount of torque is more or less then it should be is when you get the fail safe mode. The way some tuners can adjust these settings and still keep it within factory parameters is where you will gain the most and keep the most driveability. Turning the Torque Management off is a good start but having a tuner that knows whats going on is the best way to get the most from the car.
quote:
The adaptive learning feature in the PCM learns and corrects fuel trims, this in turn helps to keep milage in check. When you get to a pedal position that is enough to make reasonable power then you should be in Open loop and then the fuel trims, or adaptive learning, is off completely anyway.
Now, this is my THEORY on what you guys are feeling. What you are feeling is the PCM learning throttle tables and adjustments and on the auto's learning transmission pressures and slip times. There again this has nothing to do with what is referred to as Adaptive learning.
The way I combat that is to completely remap the DBW tables, not one but a few different ones, and this in turn gives the PCM a different table to adapt from and learn to and this will keep the throttle crisp and alot better then factory. There are SCT dealers that dont have access to this table and SCT basefiles do some changes but not the ones I speak of. Diablosport make nearly the same changes as SCT base files to the throttle tables.
Now as for the automatic features there is a few ways to combat this as well, basically doing the same thing by adjusting different tables, times, and rates you give the PCM a new base to learn from and hopefully not try to reduce. There are also a few switch positions that need to be changed but without going into great detail I'll leave it at that.
Basically to help get around this you should start with a custom tune from a custom tuning dealer with a good rep and that will provide you with support after the sale should you need it. Not some warehouse dealer that pushes them out the door with free overnight shipping or a new shop that wants to save you $20 by buying from them over a reputable dealer.
So - I went and installed the Steeda CAI and tune from Brenspeed this weekend - car drives much better! I'm still on the 87 octane tune, but yes, better and more even power, throttle feels better too.
But a couple of follow up questions -
1) Do the Brenspeed tunes turn off the adaptive learning, or am I still going to have to retrain her every now and then?
2) When I ordered the tunes, I specified 91 as the highest octane around here. But since then I noticed some stations selling 92. Would this be ok to use? I realize that you never ever want to use a lower octane than the tune is built for, but what about a higher octane? My brain is telling me that since a higher octane would be even less prone to detonation that running 92 octane on a 91 tune should be ok, even though I may not be getting the most out of the 92 gas.
Thx-
Maybe this will help explain.
The Ford computer has two modes. Open Loop and Closed Loop.
In Open Loop (startup, and wideopen throttle) the computer fuels based off of the base fuel table and MAF transfer function. The stock 02s are not used. The base fuel table is where you command what AFR you want. It’s a table that has throttle position on one axis, RPM on the other. The cells are displayed in lamda (AFR basically)
Closed Loop is where the car is most of the time. Idling, part throttle driving. Here the car receives feedback from the factory 02s as to if the car is rich or lean. This is good, the car makes corrections based off of it, and gas mileage and emissions are good. From Ford, the corrections that are learned are applied to wide open throttle too!!! This is bad! We always turn that off. The car can still learn, but only at part throttle, it will not apply the corrections to other places.
Having adaptive learning off isn’t necessarily bad, but its not something that has to be done.
The above was provide to me by SCT through an email requesting adaptive learning information.
So to make a long story short...............closed loop adaptive learning is enabled and the open loop is disabled.
When a tune is first loaded the KAM is erased and the car seems to run like a bat otta hell during normal driving. Over time / miles it feels like the car isnt performing like it was when the first tune was installed. This is because the adaptive learning in the closed loop (normal driving) has adjusted the A/F / timing and emissions for best performance as seen by the O2 sensors.
Now its a completely different story when you go to WOT. The adaptive learning in the open loop has been disabled and the A/F and timing are adjusted at a setting determined by the tuner.
In my case when I go to WOT the timing is advanced 32 degrees, the A/F has been set to 12.9:1 and the O2 sensors are disabled.
Hope this helps
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2005 Mustang GT - Automatic WMS 80mm HV Intake System SCTuning by Doug@B A M A chips WMS 80mm 93 Octane Race / Tran Tune BMR Front Sway Delete, IMCO Extreme Axle Back Exhaust, Saleen SS UDP's, PH Aluminum DS, Steeda LCA's, Steeda UCA, FRPP 3.73
If you drive like a normal person (impossible when driving a GT), after a while you may lose some of that snap of the tune, just reload it again and your good to go. As far as octane, when I put 94 Octane in it feels even better.......I don't think it's my imagination
^^^Couldn't agree with you more...
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---2Fast4U--- JLT2 CAI, Brenspeed tune, 4.10's Eibach Pro Kit BMR Adjustable LCA's One empty credit card BoomTube crew member.
94! wow... Yes, I'd talk to them first.. There's a little part of me that feels like the UK may rate their octane differently.. I may be wrong tho -
They do rate the octane differently. Any given gasoline has RON & MON (Research Octane Number & Motor Octane Number, two different tests results for octane rating) RON is higher than MON. In Europe, they just show the RON rating of the gas. in the US, we show the average (RON +MON)/2.
So US 93 octane is roughly 95-98 RON. Grabbing some 93 octane in europe is like getting 89 here.
FWIW, I run 93 octane fuel with a Bren 91 tune because I don't really trust the gas stations to have exactly the octane that they claim on their pumps. Maybe I'm paranoid?
FWIW, I run 93 octane fuel with a Bren 91 tune because I don't really trust the gas stations to have exactly the octane that they claim on their pumps. Maybe I'm paranoid?
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RE: Yet more goofy tune questions - 
