I've gone over it a few times with some of our wonderful V8 owners here. Dollar for dollar - if you know what you are doing, the V6 will SMOKE a V8 Mustang in any type of race....1/8, 1/4, auto x, road course etc.....
That doesn't make any sense. They both take similarly to mods. Think about it.
If you take a 2002 V6 with 190 hp and 220 ft/lbs of torque, and spend say $3500 on a 9 psi Procharger, you'll make about 285ish rwhp/torque.
If you take a 2002 GT with 260 hp and 300 ft/lbs of torque, and spend $3500 on a 9 psi ProCharger, you'll make about 350rwhp/torque.
Your arguement doesn't make any sense. I don't know why you think the V6 is sooo much better than the V8.
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ORIGINAL: code3GT
I have never heard of a non-brand name car....would that be like a Fred's Fun Wagon?
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i've never argued the fact you can make a v6 fast as all hell, but to say that dollar for dollar it's better is just ignorant. unless you're talking about all out drag builds or something. i was thinking the exact same thing as xemeth.
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Joined: 12/15/2006 From: Lafayette/Gulf of Mexico, LA Status: online
I see where he's coming from dollar for dollar wise, since it's really easy to find a v6 dirt cheap, espescially 94-95's with blown motors, and then drop in a stroker 4.3 or something and come out waaay ahead as opposed to getting a GT, but it's an argument that can go around in circles, so it's really rediculous to waste time arguing about it.
I have both a V6 and a GT, and I honestly consider doing bigger things to my six as opposed to my GT out of the fun factor. To me it's more fun to take something that isn't as popular and make it do great things. I'd probably do a stroker in my 6 before my GT even though they cost about the same. But to each his own I guess.
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i'd probably mod the hell out of my v6 if i still had it too. it's more of a shock for people to get beat by "just a 6er" than it is to get beat by a GT. "You only beat me cause you have a v8!"
i've never argued the fact you can make a v6 fast as all hell, but to say that dollar for dollar it's better is just ignorant. unless you're talking about all out drag builds or something. i was thinking the exact same thing as xemeth.
Like I said....RIGHT parts.
I can find 94-98 V6 Mustangs all over for $3000 (and that's HIGH end). For $300 you get a Super Coupe bottom end (now you're fully forged, low compression and are running a blower cam all at once). I've got less than $2000 in my M112 blower set up. Spend another $300 on a GT take off 8.8. Now you've spent $5600 hundred. Dyno tune... say $500 average. So that's a grand total of $6100 and you are now making Well over 400 hp/tq to the wheels.
Now, tell me how to do than in your SN95 V8. If you can, I'll give props.
I didn't say take a V6 and a V8 and spend the same to mod them. Dollar for dollar from zero, the V6 wins.
That's exactly what I've been saying to myself the whole time LilRoush, with the money saved on getting a v6, you could spend to mod it and end up just as fast if not faster than a GT. Although in Xemeth's situation it did make more sense because of the trannie swap to just get a GT. To each his own I guess, was never really looking to start another arguement on here, just curious as to why people felt the way they did about the two cars. I think I'll stick with my v6, since I dont' really have any big plans for it. I think my biggest goal would be to go FI in the next year and try to reach 300hp. And I think that with the money I've saved going the cheap route with the v6, I should be able to reach that.
Team MF Member #316 Posts: 13714
Joined: 11/18/2002 From: yep Status: offline
quote:
ORIGINAL: LilRoush
quote:
ORIGINAL: nanaki
i've never argued the fact you can make a v6 fast as all hell, but to say that dollar for dollar it's better is just ignorant. unless you're talking about all out drag builds or something. i was thinking the exact same thing as xemeth.
Like I said....RIGHT parts.
I can find 94-98 V6 Mustangs all over for $3000 (and that's HIGH end). For $300 you get a Super Coupe bottom end (now you're fully forged, low compression and are running a blower cam all at once). I've got less than $2000 in my M112 blower set up. Spend another $300 on a GT take off 8.8. Now you've spent $5600 hundred. Dyno tune... say $500 average. So that's a grand total of $6100 and you are now making Well over 400 hp/tq to the wheels.
Now, tell me how to do than in your SN95 V8. If you can, I'll give props.
I didn't say take a V6 and a V8 and spend the same to mod them. Dollar for dollar from zero, the V6 wins.
so you can provide links to places who sell the aforementioned parts, such as the 300 dollar forged bottom end, the 300 dollar 8.8, and your complete blower setup for 2000? not to mention a shop that will do the bottom end and diff swap for free, since the average joe doesnt have the know how to get an engine out of the car, let alone change the rotating assembly.
i could get a gt35r and a fuel mgmt system from a friend of mine who has stuff laying around for free and i would make at least 400awhp, but that doesnt mean that its free for the average person to do the same thing. my white car is making around 370 to the wheels on 87 octane...running low 12s, and i have less than 5000 in the entire car, but that doesnt mean that anyone can run right out and copy my build for the same price...
< Message edited by Ride Of The Month -- 7/3/2007 11:07:17 AM >
i've never argued the fact you can make a v6 fast as all hell, but to say that dollar for dollar it's better is just ignorant. unless you're talking about all out drag builds or something. i was thinking the exact same thing as xemeth.
Like I said....RIGHT parts.
I can find 94-98 V6 Mustangs all over for $3000 (and that's HIGH end). For $300 you get a Super Coupe bottom end (now you're fully forged, low compression and are running a blower cam all at once). I've got less than $2000 in my M112 blower set up. Spend another $300 on a GT take off 8.8. Now you've spent $5600 hundred. Dyno tune... say $500 average. So that's a grand total of $6100 and you are now making Well over 400 hp/tq to the wheels.
Now, tell me how to do than in your SN95 V8. If you can, I'll give props.
I didn't say take a V6 and a V8 and spend the same to mod them. Dollar for dollar from zero, the V6 wins.
woah, slow down there. I need the details on that. I'd gladly save up 4 grand to drop on my car if that owuld put it over 400rwhp/tq. Could you pm me the details on that, this may be worth looking in to.
< Message edited by eaglecatcher -- 7/3/2007 3:53:09 PM >
_____________________________
Black 98 Mustang V6 5MT
Throttle Cable Tightened Lowered Wiper Arms Intake Silencer Removed Bumper Cutouts Removed Smoked Headlights and Corners K&N Air Filter Black Front Pony
If you can't swap a motor, you shouldn't be trying to build a 400 hp car. Period. You need the knowledge to run something like that....otherwise (in my opinion), you'd just another fool off the street trying to be cool.
A used Thunderbird Super Coupe short block can be found at many junkyards all over the US. You can also watch the SC forums (there are several). There is no need to pull internals or swap rotating assemblies. It's a direct motor swap. The SC motor has a low compression forged set up with a blower specific cam. Unbolt the tranny, unhook the wiring harness and various lines, unbolt the motor from the mounts and lift it up and out.
Finding an 8.8 is as easy as watching both local forums and junk yards. Again, it's a simple swap. If you can turn a wrench, you can swap an axle. Take off the wheels, unhook the rear brakes, unbolt the lower shock mount, unbolt the drive shaft, unbolt the upper/lower control arms.... drop axle out and reverse it to install the new one.
My blower set up is a basic boxed upper intake with an M112 on top. I've picked up several M112's for $250-$300. The boxed upper I've offer to be made fairly cheap. Fuel upgrades are take off "junk" parts from 03/04 Cobras that you can almost get free from a Cobra owner who is upgrading. Again, surf some specific forums (like svtperformance.com or ebay).
ROTM: you say your "white car"....sorry I'm not too familiar with other members cars yet. What year is it? I assume an SN95 since that is what we are comparing? I listed average prices from across the US. I'm sure I could do it cheaper if I looked harder. But that wouldn't make for a fair comparison at all. I guy I'm doing a car for here locally just picked up a SC long block and the M90 blower set up for $300 total. I didn't say everyone could do it like that, but it does happen. it gives the advantage of SC heads to, which run an upgraded valve trains as well. When tossed together with some port work, he'll see close to 380 at the wheels with less than $800 total spent (aside from the car itself).
< Message edited by LilRoush -- 7/3/2007 7:12:12 PM >
but if you get an older v8 you can get it cheaper. i bought my fox for $1,400! pretty good bang for my buck i think. i guess i don't have a point to this argument except............V8 FTW!
< Message edited by 90lxstang -- 7/3/2007 9:22:59 PM >
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Posts: 11581
Joined: 9/19/2005 From: Pearl River, Louisiana Status: offline
quote:
ORIGINAL: LilRoush
quote:
ORIGINAL: nanaki
i've never argued the fact you can make a v6 fast as all hell, but to say that dollar for dollar it's better is just ignorant. unless you're talking about all out drag builds or something. i was thinking the exact same thing as xemeth.
Like I said....RIGHT parts.
I can find 94-98 V6 Mustangs all over for $3000 (and that's HIGH end). For $300 you get a Super Coupe bottom end (now you're fully forged, low compression and are running a blower cam all at once). I've got less than $2000 in my M112 blower set up. Spend another $300 on a GT take off 8.8. Now you've spent $5600 hundred. Dyno tune... say $500 average. So that's a grand total of $6100 and you are now making Well over 400 hp/tq to the wheels.
Now, tell me how to do than in your SN95 V8. If you can, I'll give props.
I didn't say take a V6 and a V8 and spend the same to mod them. Dollar for dollar from zero, the V6 wins.
Challenge taken, however, I'm gonna use the sn95 5.0 GT instead of the 2V 4.6L GT.
347 street forged stroker engine pro built and balanced from www.haneymotorsports.com $2000 GT-40 Twist Flow Aluminum Heads w/ assembled valvetrain - $1200 (ebay as well as many other places) GT-40 Cobra Intake Manifold (used) - $400 (and that's giving some) ebay Performance Products 75mm Throttle Body - $140 www.mustangsunlimited.com F-303 cam - $200 NEW www.summitracing.com 42lb injectors - $150 (depending on store) www.americanmuscle.com 255lb hr holley fuel pump - $120 www.mustangsunlimited.com Kirbane adjustable fuel pressure regulator - $100 www.mustangsunlimited.com
Do a basic home made port job - $0 Do the basic needed install work on the new engine - $0
Total = approx $4310 Est. RWHP = approx 375+
Buy a used/rebuilt Paxton, Vortec, Powerdyne, etc. S/C = $1200-2000, so let's just say $1600
New Total = approx $5910 Est. RWHP = 550
Much more mods, for a less cost, and considering the old sn-95 will cost less than a V6 unless you either get riped off, or get a hell of a deal, the dolar to dolar figures point in the direction that whatever you can do, I can do for the same approx cost.
the way i see it a v6 is just a learning tool, i love learning about my car and how to work on it and see how far i can push it and once ive mastered the v6 ill move on the v8 in my point of view the v6 is exactly what ford said it was "entry level" you move up from there but thats just my opinion
v6 isnt just a learning tool go pick up the newer MMFF last months or this months and read a couple articles
super coup turboed V6 running 9's and a 4cyl running 9.1 in the article but is now running 8.9 since the artical
or just look arround the forum LilRoush is a prime example of the V6 being a good platform and not just a stepping stone to some thing better down the road
i realize that, hence the reason i said it was my opinion i mean dont get me wrong the v6 platform is great and can be a fast car but i still dont see too many lil roushes, most people tend to get a v6 and upgrade to a v8
Team MF Member #007 Posts: 9925
Joined: 1/5/2004 From: My moms uterus Status: offline
quote:
ORIGINAL: jthorn9
quote:
ORIGINAL: LilRoush
quote:
ORIGINAL: nanaki
i've never argued the fact you can make a v6 fast as all hell, but to say that dollar for dollar it's better is just ignorant. unless you're talking about all out drag builds or something. i was thinking the exact same thing as xemeth.
Like I said....RIGHT parts.
I can find 94-98 V6 Mustangs all over for $3000 (and that's HIGH end). For $300 you get a Super Coupe bottom end (now you're fully forged, low compression and are running a blower cam all at once). I've got less than $2000 in my M112 blower set up. Spend another $300 on a GT take off 8.8. Now you've spent $5600 hundred. Dyno tune... say $500 average. So that's a grand total of $6100 and you are now making Well over 400 hp/tq to the wheels.
Now, tell me how to do than in your SN95 V8. If you can, I'll give props.
I didn't say take a V6 and a V8 and spend the same to mod them. Dollar for dollar from zero, the V6 wins.
Challenge taken, however, I'm gonna use the sn95 5.0 GT instead of the 2V 4.6L GT.
347 street forged stroker engine pro built and balanced from www.haneymotorsports.com $2000 GT-40 Twist Flow Aluminum Heads w/ assembled valvetrain - $1200 (ebay as well as many other places) GT-40 Cobra Intake Manifold (used) - $400 (and that's giving some) ebay Performance Products 75mm Throttle Body - $140 www.mustangsunlimited.com F-303 cam - $200 NEW www.summitracing.com 42lb injectors - $150 (depending on store) www.americanmuscle.com 255lb hr holley fuel pump - $120 www.mustangsunlimited.com Kirbane adjustable fuel pressure regulator - $100 www.mustangsunlimited.com
Do a basic home made port job - $0 Do the basic needed install work on the new engine - $0
Total = approx $4310 Est. RWHP = approx 375+
Buy a used/rebuilt Paxton, Vortec, Powerdyne, etc. S/C = $1200-2000, so let's just say $1600
New Total = approx $5910 Est. RWHP = 550
Much more mods, for a less cost, and considering the old sn-95 will cost less than a V6 unless you either get riped off, or get a hell of a deal, the dolar to dolar figures point in the direction that whatever you can do, I can do for the same approx cost.
Saddly, I am going to slightly agree with jthorn. Lil Roush, you claim that you've sold 2 V8 foxes and kept the V6...Why? Because the V6 is cheaper, and faster? Sorry broham.
While our resident sn95 owner likes to listen to the wrong people, he's at least on the right track. Given the same budget, I would guarantee that I could put 600+ to the tires with a 5.0 car. The difference is that jthorn picked the wrong heads, the VERY wrong cam, and the wrong upper and lower.
A set of use trick flow twisted wedge heads...$800. Would make at least 30+ hp over what he has listed. The holley systemax intake makes 40hp over the Cobra...used...$250. The custom ground .600 lift 234/242 cam thats floating around my garage...$0. Another 25ish hp. (Hey, you got the fuel system for free) Various other parts that if I were to actually put some time into, I'm sure I could find for less bread than what you can do with the V6. Man, it's just not gonna happen. Either you want to go really fast, or you want to be that guy would likes to talk **** with his V6. I usually find the latter to be a bunch of posers. If a V6 was really the way to go fast, everyone would do it. You're hardly an innovator.
Posts: 11581
Joined: 9/19/2005 From: Pearl River, Louisiana Status: offline
Hee............. I just picked the cheaper option, but yea, that set up would be 10X better. Don't know why I put F-303 in there, the Comp Cams xtreme lift series would be one of the best to make serrious power, and cost pretty much the same. Dohhh
Wow, at this rate sideways may actually like me enough to stand me in like 10 billion years.
< Message edited by jthorn9 -- 7/4/2007 12:02:55 AM >
i've never argued the fact you can make a v6 fast as all hell, but to say that dollar for dollar it's better is just ignorant. unless you're talking about all out drag builds or something. i was thinking the exact same thing as xemeth.
Like I said....RIGHT parts.
I can find 94-98 V6 Mustangs all over for $3000 (and that's HIGH end). For $300 you get a Super Coupe bottom end (now you're fully forged, low compression and are running a blower cam all at once). I've got less than $2000 in my M112 blower set up. Spend another $300 on a GT take off 8.8. Now you've spent $5600 hundred. Dyno tune... say $500 average. So that's a grand total of $6100 and you are now making Well over 400 hp/tq to the wheels.
Now, tell me how to do than in your SN95 V8. If you can, I'll give props.
I didn't say take a V6 and a V8 and spend the same to mod them. Dollar for dollar from zero, the V6 wins.
Challenge taken, however, I'm gonna use the sn95 5.0 GT instead of the 2V 4.6L GT.
347 street forged stroker engine pro built and balanced from www.haneymotorsports.com $2000 GT-40 Twist Flow Aluminum Heads w/ assembled valvetrain - $1200 (ebay as well as many other places) GT-40 Cobra Intake Manifold (used) - $400 (and that's giving some) ebay Performance Products 75mm Throttle Body - $140 www.mustangsunlimited.com F-303 cam - $200 NEW www.summitracing.com 42lb injectors - $150 (depending on store) www.americanmuscle.com 255lb hr holley fuel pump - $120 www.mustangsunlimited.com Kirbane adjustable fuel pressure regulator - $100 www.mustangsunlimited.com
Do a basic home made port job - $0 Do the basic needed install work on the new engine - $0
Total = approx $4310 Est. RWHP = approx 375+
Buy a used/rebuilt Paxton, Vortec, Powerdyne, etc. S/C = $1200-2000, so let's just say $1600
New Total = approx $5910 Est. RWHP = 550
Much more mods, for a less cost, and considering the old sn-95 will cost less than a V6 unless you either get riped off, or get a hell of a deal, the dolar to dolar figures point in the direction that whatever you can do, I can do for the same approx cost.
does that count the cost of the car? Lilroush added 3grand in for buying the car, so techincally he only spent about 3100 on parts to get to 400rwhp. I'd like to see what the sixxer could do with and extra 2800, or what the 5.0 would be with only 3.1k in parts.
_____________________________
Black 98 Mustang V6 5MT
Throttle Cable Tightened Lowered Wiper Arms Intake Silencer Removed Bumper Cutouts Removed Smoked Headlights and Corners K&N Air Filter Black Front Pony
If you can't swap a motor, you shouldn't be trying to build a 400 hp car. Period. You need the knowledge to run something like that....otherwise (in my opinion), you'd just another fool off the street trying to be cool.
A used Thunderbird Super Coupe short block can be found at many junkyards all over the US. You can also watch the SC forums (there are several). There is no need to pull internals or swap rotating assemblies. It's a direct motor swap. The SC motor has a low compression forged set up with a blower specific cam. Unbolt the tranny, unhook the wiring harness and various lines, unbolt the motor from the mounts and lift it up and out.
Finding an 8.8 is as easy as watching both local forums and junk yards. Again, it's a simple swap. If you can turn a wrench, you can swap an axle. Take off the wheels, unhook the rear brakes, unbolt the lower shock mount, unbolt the drive shaft, unbolt the upper/lower control arms.... drop axle out and reverse it to install the new one.
My blower set up is a basic boxed upper intake with an M112 on top. I've picked up several M112's for $250-$300. The boxed upper I've offer to be made fairly cheap. Fuel upgrades are take off "junk" parts from 03/04 Cobras that you can almost get free from a Cobra owner who is upgrading. Again, surf some specific forums (like svtperformance.com or ebay).
ROTM: you say your "white car"....sorry I'm not too familiar with other members cars yet. What year is it? I assume an SN95 since that is what we are comparing? I listed average prices from across the US. I'm sure I could do it cheaper if I looked harder. But that wouldn't make for a fair comparison at all. I guy I'm doing a car for here locally just picked up a SC long block and the M90 blower set up for $300 total. I didn't say everyone could do it like that, but it does happen. it gives the advantage of SC heads to, which run an upgraded valve trains as well. When tossed together with some port work, he'll see close to 380 at the wheels with less than $800 total spent (aside from the car itself).
If I were to find a super coupe engine somewhere, exactly what all would have to be done to fit it into my mustang? Would it be a direct fit with the tranny and mounts and evrything, or is there lots of fab work involved? I thought the super coupes were supercharged weren't they? So how would swapping the blower on an engine give you that much of a power increase? Does the dyno tune really do that much for it?
I'm also curious, if i were to use all the internals from the thunderbird engine, but still keep my mustang block, how effective woudl that be? Mine is pretty low mileage, and I know how its been cared for, and the prospect of buying a junkyard engine is a bit scary to me.
< Message edited by eaglecatcher -- 7/4/2007 1:43:15 AM >
_____________________________
Black 98 Mustang V6 5MT
Throttle Cable Tightened Lowered Wiper Arms Intake Silencer Removed Bumper Cutouts Removed Smoked Headlights and Corners K&N Air Filter Black Front Pony
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RE: Help me understand... - 
