Let's get a feel of how the members here on the classic section feel about separating the section into two sections. One would be the classic section as we currently enjoy and the other would be the restormod section where restomods would discuss their cars. The possibility would be that all years of Mustangs that are restomodded could wind up in that forum section. The admins are suggesting that we separate this forum into two sections and that if a restomod question or answer comes on here I would simply move it to the restomod section where another moderator would deal with it.

There is no point in two sections. The a lot of the restomod guys don't know old fashion technics that are crucial to building a classic and the oem classic guys may learn a thing or two. I would hate having to log into two sections to figure the answer to a question.

Well its a landslide vote so far, 100% to Zero!

I think that even though there are things changed on a restomod, underneath all the new parts and fancy stuff is a classic. i said leave it alone.

I say leave it alone seeing that my car will look classic but with the drive train modified. I would not like to have to flip back and forth not only my questions but to see other members treads that give me idears and directions.

I say leave it alone. Being a new member to this forum, I must say that I find this bickering between these two groups is distracting from the information I am trying to find. I also feel the information between the two are very similar and very informative, whether or not I take my car in the restomod direction or not, the information that the restomods provide is still very valuable. They know their classic mustang just as well as an factory original resto. If I want to learn how to take off a quarter panel, why should I have to search for that information in two different forums. I just doesn't make sense to me.

I say quit the bickering, we are all working on old cars.

We can learn something from both groups.... Leave it be please...

I think everyone has some restomod options except for the concours guys. Saftey and reliabilty are a good reason to upgrade. Granted there are some crazy things ya'll do to your cars!

leave it alone!!!! 90% of almost any muscle car resto has a hint of restomod in them! its what makes your car yours!

If it ain't broke don't fix it. I've received loads of information on my Restomod from people like Soaring or whoever else is into the Original styling.

I think we've all spoken Soaring, only a few want to seperate it.

But it *is* broken, that's the problem. There are several of us who like to discuss modifications to our cars, yet we get chastised, belittled and called names because we do it. This has to stop! Glen can have his section where he controls what is said and the rest of us can openly discuss modifications without the fear of being bashed by the moderator for voicing our opinions. We won't have to worry about on-topic threads getting moved or deleted. We won't have to worry about unnecessary censorship. Keep in mind any search that you do will search both sections, there is no extra work involved.

Look at the following thread as an example:
http://www.mustangforums.com/m_3331432/tm.htm

Do you guys really enjoy being treated like abused 6 year olds? How about standing up for your rights to openly discuss classic Mustangs in any form! A Mustang is a Mustang whether it is modified or not. This is a solution to a problem that has been present in this section for way too long.

isnt't the heckling between the two groups part of what makes this forum fun. I may be new but it seems like you all get along even with our differnces in opinion.

Tony has got a point, it's always fun to see some guy talk about his restomod and then have soaring pop in and tell him it's all about keeping it stock.

ORIGINAL: Tony R

isnt't the heckling between the two groups part of what makes this forum fun. I may be new but it seems like you all get along even with our differnces in opinion.


If you consider being called names and being told that your equipment is a POS "fun" than I guess you have a point. However, I would be willing to bet that isn't very many people's idea of fun. Read through the link in my above post and imagine that about 15% - 20% of Glen's posts are like that. He likes to run his section that way and will tell you so because he "doesn't answer to anyone". I feel that type of personal abuse is unnecessary and can be avoided by having a separate section.

Well said Troy.

Obviously I support having a Modified Section. This section would allow those who want to ask questions about issues like larger wheels and tires, disc brakes, suspension upgrades, modified engines, T-5s, EFI, digital gages, etc without encroaching on the purist who think these modifications detract from the originality of their Mustangs.

Seems to me that most of the newer members are often asking about things to do to make their cars safer and more fun. These fall into the modified category more often than the basic car criteria.

VMF is a similar forum that has basic, concours,and modified forums. They cohabitate well with most members cover multiple sections. The best part is that there is no bickering or insults there about what constitues a 'real mustang'.

Open up a Modified section and you will find me there 90% of the time helping those with Mustangs .... and yes Hornblower... my 65 Fastback is as much of a Mustang as yours or any other car here.

I think I might like to change my vote, sure they are both classics, but restomods are not 100% classic. JamesW and Troy got me convinced, there are many things that could benefit from seperate forums. Not so much bickering back and forth, a chance for people who are curious about newer mods for their cars have a cahnce to do so on a forum based on it. I say change it now, I was swayed.

Separate. For some reason I think a pure classic section would be a little lonely.

I'm not saying name calling is fun and if glen is like that it still isnt going to change his personality by moving him to another section.

I'm sorry.

I'm 23 and don't consider myself a genius but what good does separating them do? Why not everyone just get your tail out between your legs, like what you do to your car, and ignore the negative opinions of others.My car is modified, but I have relied on the knowledge of Soaring and the other traditionalists. I wouldn't have it any other way. If you separate them,I just have to make that many more clicks to check out all the great cars on both ends of the spectrum.

I tell people all the time in the audio section what is the best value for the money, what brands are good and what brands are poor. If someone disagrees I don't whine, I know what I know and can beleive it. If someone disagrees, I don't cry about it, its not my money or time.

There is something to be said about calling names, that is for kids. But isn't it more childish to allow people on the internet to bully you around!

Doesn't company use the slogan, "what makes us different, makes us great"?

ORIGINAL: Tony R

I'm not saying name calling is fun and if glen is like that it still isnt going to change his personality by moving him to another section.


I'm not trying to change Glen, I have already been told several times that that is NOT going to happen. Since that is not going to happen, I think an area where we, as modification friendly Mustang owners, can talk about our cars and the changes that we make to them without his interference.

I guess my son and I are doing a restomod to one extent or another,,, but I really enjoy this section, even with it's "issues"...;)Hell,,, I have "issues" with my wife and kids,,,, but seperation aint always the best solution,,, :DI think we should vocalize our opinions, even vigorously, and then agree to disagree when we can't find common ground.

As I have said many times, there has always been a rift between those who like "stock" and those who like "modified", this will not change,,, ever. We can make the most of this rift, andrun the risk oflearning somthing, or we can disregard the other point of view and remain ignorant to the fact that valid opinions can existthat differ fromthe opinions that we hold as our own.

I mean it's not like we are discussing religion or politics here:D,,,, it is not likely that someone will actually die because of the different positions that "stock people" and "modified people" hold. The most I have seen getting hurt here are feelings,, I am of the opinion that the feelings of grown men (and women)will grow back ifallow them to.

I think that most of the disagreements here actually add flavor to the forum, especially when the discourse remains more or less"civil". Besides, each of us is going to do what we want with our cars, regardless of (and sometimes in spite of)what others think.

OH MAN, I'm lost I'll just stop posting and be in the middle."Are you my mommy?"

I think I may want to change my vote also. I know that I dont "post" here often, but I can assure you that I frequent these boards daily, I just like to observe and I don't feel the need to comment on every thread. I notice Glen hates the idea of talking about anything that is not "original", but the truth is, not very many of us have numbers matching cars, does that mean they are not classics? The abovereferenced thread goes to show that our "moderator" is out of line. Besides, a motorcraft carb is just a generic version of a Holley.

I vote, that we either get seperate sections, or a new moderator.

I definitely think it should remain one forum, like stated previously, you can modify your stang all you want but you still have a classic, and we can all learn from one another.

Maybe in the post heading you could add "Resto" or "RM?" to designate restomod question, then those who don't prefer restomods could choose to not read and/or post in the forum.
I think theres room for young and old.

Isn't "restomod" defined as part restoration, part modification? Seems silly to have it become solely "mod" and "resto." If you seperate them, it's going to create 2 of the same forum.

ORIGINAL: 428coupe

I think I may want to change my vote also.

I think that you should certainly vote the way you choose, but at the risk of offending, I don't think that you need to change any vote.

Taking the entirty of your post into consideration, I am going to need to beg your pardon for my thinking thatyouevereven consideredvoting for anything other thanseperation. ;)

I can respect your opinion, but your presentation tends to make me think that you are atempting to insult my inteligence... ;)

nah leave it alone. hey im all for restomods, my car is more restomod than factory spec, but its an internet forum and really we all love mustangs. if someone says your digital gauges are gay and that offends you and makes you decide not to get them or something, youve got bigger problems then wether or not their should be a restomod vs classic section on a mustang forum.

Here are a couple more threads that show the moderator abuse:
http://www.mustangforums.com/m_3338196/tm.htm
http://www.mustangforums.com/m_2688738/tm.htm
http://www.mustangforums.com/m_3327402/tm.htm
http://www.mustangforums.com/m_3312215/tm.htm
http://www.mustangforums.com/m_3326960/tm.htm
http://www.mustangforums.com/m_3277806/tm.htm
http://www.mustangforums.com/m_3213213/tm.htm
http://www.mustangforums.com/m_3321809/tm.htm

That is just a quick search of his last posts. Imagine out of the 15,700 posts that he has, how many of them are abusive.

There is no denying his knowledge, Glen is probably one of the most knowledgeable Mustang guys I have ever seen, however, the abuse makes his knowledge worthless!

this is total BS.

The reality of this poll is:

choice 1= create a 2nd section so that Glen doesn't have to grow up and start being polite to restomoders. And as a result, everyone has to go search two places for help.
or
choice 2= put up with Glen's inmature negativity towards restomods.

Is it really too much to ask for Glen to keep his restomod comments to himself or ask the restomoder's to ignore his efforts to get a rise out of them???

ORIGINAL: five pt oh

this is total BS.

The reality of this poll is:

choice 1= create a 2nd section so that Glen doesn't have to grow up and start being polite to restomoders. And as a result, everyone has to go search two places for help.
or
choice 2= put up with Glen's inmature negativity towards restomods.

Is it really too much to ask for Glen to keep his restomod comments to himself or ask the restomoder's to ignore his efforts to get a rise out of them???



Glen has already been asked (several times) to modify his behavior, however as I have posted before he "doesn't answer to anyone".
I wish I could post some of the PM conversations that he and I have had, but it is against the forum rules to do so.

I also think that a better way to word the poll would be to have a Modified sub-section and a Stock sub-section of the classic section or leave as is. That would be the proper unbiased way to word it.

I voted to leave it alone. But, reading all the posts has changed my mind. No offense to the classic guys, but I think theyd'e be searching the restomad section. I think a restomod section would draw a lot of people. Besides, several months ago this topic came up with my EFI post and I said that it would be pretty lonely over there:D Who will be the restomod administrator. I vote JamesW.

to me its just a mustang only ones like the twister mach1 or shelbys should be restored rest are up to you they are high production cars i know alot of people think there car is rare but face the facts its not to me rare is 6 or less made ever. look at the street rods anyone have a restored 32 ford with a flathead nothing changed it on it. its a car you should enjoy driving it not worried about if it will stop with the none power drums. alot of parts on the early mustang where changed by ford later on for reasons like the points. look at how much changed between 73 and 74

i dont think we need a seperte section for restomods we need out own off topic

I think its fine to be all in one section. the section is called CLASSIC MUSTANGS not CONCOURS CLASSIC MUSTANGS. This classic mustang section should be open to EVERYONE whether they restomod or keep it like it was. We are all mustang guys (and even gals) and shouldn't be split under two groups.

However, NorCalTroy and JamesW as well as other members raise very valid issues. I just think we should be left alone in one group, but indeed the chastising and name calling HAS to stop. It all comes down to all of us loving classic mustangs, this forum, and its members. We all just need to get along despite difference of opinion when it comes to how you chose to build your car.

SETTLE THIS ONCE AND FOR ALL, GANG WARS mustang forums edition, restomodders vs. conroursers. i think teh restomoders will use advanced technology to kick ayus, but the concours guys will use tire irons and such to lay a smack down, TWO TEAMS ENTER, ONE TEAM LEAVES!! there can be ONLY ONE!!!!!!

Splitting the board makes no sense. Once you've upgraded tires or brakes, or carb, or air conditioning or radio or headlights or shocks or exhasut, or wiring, or anyone of a hundred little things, you no longer have a "pure" Mustang. Did we learn nothing from the Germans? Do we relly want a "master race" of Mustang Nazis?

Let's be honest here.The issueis Glenn.

Heis an amazing resource for all of us. I greatly respect his knowledge and appreciate his willingness to share. I have learned more from him in the last 9 months than dozen Mustang books I have purchased. Yet, he is also very moody. One day he's tolerant of us "freaks" the next day he hates us. Hemakes me think, he makes me laugh, he makes me really pissed off. And I suspect we do the same to him.

If I could send him a chill pill I would.

I say be kind to him.

We like you, Glen. And I - for one - do not want to leave "home".

Thank you.



I say - chill Glen. We all need your help

ORIGINAL: NorCalTroy
Glen has already been asked (several times) to modify his behavior, however as I have posted before he "doesn't answer to anyone".
I wish I could post some of the PM conversations that he and I have had, but it is against the forum rules to do so.

I also think that a better way to word the poll would be to have a Modified sub-section and a Stock sub-section of the classic section or leave as is. That would be the proper unbiased way to word it.

oh yeah, it's out of control all right. We should get a new mod for this section and then let Glen mod a subsection.

ORIGINAL: EmperorOfChicken

SETTLE THIS ONCE AND FOR ALL, GANG WARS mustang forums edition, restomodders vs. conroursers. i think teh restomoders will use advanced technology to kick ayus, but the concours guys will use tire irons and such to lay a smack down, TWO TEAMS ENTER, ONE TEAM LEAVES!! there can be ONLY ONE!!!!!!

no reason to pick on all the concoursers when only one of them is causing significant problems.

joke five point oh:D <-- joke face[8D]

Timelockmind- I fully agree with everything you wrote. The only difference for me is that in the short time I've been here, I've already seen this come up over and over, and he's proved he's not going chill. At least not for very long.
ORIGINAL: EmperorOfChicken

joke five point oh:D <-- joke face[8D]
I know it was a joke...and it was rather funny.:D At the same time, I don't want anyone to get the impression that there are teams here.

As I see it, we have one guy being offensive, several guys being insulted, and then a whole mess of us that keep getting caught up in the middle. If there were teams, I'd expect to see at least one other person attacking the restomoders the way Soaring does. That just isn't the case. Heck, my car might be even more stock than his, and I don't even agree with bias against the restomod guys. At any rate,I don't want anyone to think that there is"anti restomod team".

anyway, I knew it was a joke. I was just makinga point.:D

I don't know.... I just can't figure it,,,,, maybe I am just a freak, but I can not understand how people can have no respect for a car or it's owner/builder because it is different from what we would do with our own car, (ricers and euro cars excluded[8D]:D).

I like and respect all cars on this forum and their owners. I can not understand it...... How can a person look at Glen's car, Nor Cal Troy's car, hornblowers car, James Ws car, and all of the other cars posted on this forumand not likeall of them? WTF???????????? Man this sh*t is way beyond me.

I thought , optimisticly I suppose, that we could all co-exist,,, stupid me.

I would really like to take everyones side here because Ilikeeveryone here, besides Hornblower,:D (sorry, Iwont lie), because I think he absolutly hates people who have a car other than "stock" but I dolike his car.

I would love to get my hands on it and cut it all up. :D(not really, but I wanted to say it anyway) A concurs penance ishis car is bought by a crazy hot rodder intent on "cutting up a good car".

The bigotry must end!!!!! VENT

rmodel why a off topic

I've never been to therapy but this is great. If the vote talley were zeroed and started all over again the results would be different.

Hey, here's an idea if we split up:

Angle Glen will moderate the "stock" board

Devil Glen will moderate the "modified" board

Jeez:, I never knew there were so many bad feelings toward Soaring. Thispoor guy is really hated by some. How do you think he must be feeling after reading all these vented up emotions? Perhaps he will have a change of heartbecome "Angle Glen" for all of us.

My knee-jerk reaction was to vote to not split the forum up. After reading all the responses and thinking about it further, I'd change my vote if it means that there will be a place that it is okay with the powers to be to dare deviate from how the vehicle rolled off of the factory line. My guess is that all but a handful of posters would just migrate over to that forum and park there full time (almost everybody deviates from stock to one degree or another).

For the life of me I cannot figure why there seems to be a chip on the shoulder of many self proclaimed "purists". Why is it so threatening to dare modify a ride to make it more fast, fun, safe or reliable? Why are Granada brakes okay but EFI isn't? Is there some great love for forgetful sedans yet hatred for the engine that reinvigorated the Mustang nameplate?

What I find completely ironic is that those throwing the rocks live in glass houses! Since when did Magnum 500's come on '65 coupes? I don't seem to recall seeing these wheels on the option list either.[sm=bling.gif]
http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL1600/811984/1444315/205370203.jpg

Leave it as is, my ride is a little bit country and a little bit rock n' roll.

:D

Hey Glen, I'd like to hear what you have to say.

Does all this feedback seem reasonable to you? Do you feel like your being ganged up on? Can you understand the frustration of so many? Would you share with us your point-of-view? Do you feel there is a solution that would meet your needs as well as the majority of others? Do you feel many of us have misunderstood your position?

Please don't withdraw.

Talk to us.

Hope I'm not out of line since I haven't been here very long but instead of a board split, a second moderator is put on this section for restomod posts.

I'm a complete newbie when it comes to Mustangs. I came to this second because even though I'll be extensively modifying my Rustang (ie restomod)she's a classic at heart with all the problems of a classic. I'll have to admit, at first I was a little put off by Soaring's comments (none ever directed at myself) and I can see where a board shy newbie would of been driven out of the classic section all together. I'm an internetforum veteran, I even run one of my own, and to me there's always 'one' in the bunch so I ignored the comments and found that Soarings posts can be a wealth of knowledge. Everyone's entitled to their opinion but there's a point where that opinion shouldn't be forced on others. I love restomods on some Mustangs. My opinion greatly varies from Soarings. I don't try to force my opinons on anyone and I appreciate the same courtesy in return but I don't think seperation has ever historically been the correct way to control differing opinions.

The problem as I see it is that as the moderator a lot of you think my opinion on any subject is more important or carries more weight than any one of yours. Had any one of you taken the position that I have taken, it wouldn't be a big deal, and probably not even be up for discussion.
What we have here is one person who constantly complains to the administration about what I say as an opinion, and the administration is hearing that one person and is trying to come up with a solution to satisfy that one member's concern. In my estimation, it is not the section that is broken, it is that one person who needs to be told that they do not run the Mustang Forums.
Personally, I think we have a great group of Mustangers here and have some really good discussions with many varied viewpoints.
I would be against splitting up the section, but I don't own the MF, so if it is done, then so be it. And to set the record straight, Troy, Idid not call anybody any names in that thread, nordid I belittle any one of you or treat you like 6 year olds. My opinions have been about your cars, not about anybody's personality

leave it as is

What exactly is a restomod? Is adding disc brakes and 3 point seat belts more of a "modern addition"? I know there is a difference between stock and non-stock but wheres the line drawn?

A mild restomod can be mostly restored, with only a few modifications - mostly in the name of modern safety - headlight upgrades, electronic ignition, modern brakes, radial tires, etc..... All but the most informed enthusiasts would think that they are "stock".
Radical restomods can also appear to be "restored" to the untrained eye, but have numerous modifications/modernizations - fuel injected engines, 6-speeds, large diameter wheels, modern interior appointments, etc...
At the far end of the spectrum, any car that has visible "engineered modifications" (wheel tubs, radical bodywork, etc) becomes a true "modified" car. I think we have been confusing the term restomod, and that the real objection is a "modified" car and not a restomod.

I say leave it alone.

As a new owner and newbie to working on cars I love the fact you can get such a cross section of opinions and solutions from ALL of the MF users. I think most of us dont have a complete ORIGINAL car, but with only a few mods, i dont think most of us have RESTOMODS either.

Most of us I think fall in the middle and can benefit from everyones input......:)

GET REAL GUYS ....THIS A FORUM FOR HELPING OUT EACH OTHER AND HAVING A GOOD TIME I DONT CARE IF YOU ARE A CLASSIC ONLY GUY OR A RESTOMOD GUY .... THE LAST TIME I CHECK WE WERE ALL MEN AND WOMEN NOT A BUNCH OF KIDS ... HAVE WE NOT LEARNED FROM HISTORY ABOUT SEPERATING PEOPLE LIKE BLK/WHITE MAN/WOMAN RICH/POOR .... WE ALL BLEED BLUE THAT IS WHY WE ARE HERE , WE ARE MUSTANG LOVERS AND WE SHOULD STICK TOGETHER ......


JUST MY 2CENT ... I FEEL BETTER NOW

ORIGINAL: Soaring

The problem as I see it is that as the moderator a lot of you think my opinion on any subject is more important or carries more weight than any one of yours. Had any one of you taken the position that I have taken, it wouldn't be a big deal, and probably not even be up for discussion.
What we have here is one person who constantly complains to the administration about what I say as an opinion, and the administration is hearing that one person and is trying to come up with a solution to satisfy that one member's concern. In my estimation, it is not the section that is broken, it is that one person who needs to be told that they do not run the Mustang Forums.
Personally, I think we have a great group of Mustangers here and have some really good discussions with many varied viewpoints.
I would be against splitting up the section, but I don't own the MF, so if it is done, then so be it. And to set the record straight, Troy, Idid not call anybody any names in that thread, nordid I belittle any one of you or treat you like 6 year olds. My opinions have been about your cars, not about anybody's personality


Glen, Please don't take this wrong but I have to disagree on a couple of things. 1) I agree that your opinion is probably the most valued here. You definately appear to have the most knowledge and the quickest response to questions. Because of that alone people will take greater offense to your criticism. 2) I have seen you call people names. The most recent time you called a couple of members pricks. I thought it was funny but I am pretty sure they did not think so. 3) You have the power as a moderator to move, lock or delete threads. I have seen you do this in the past on topics that were restomod oriented but did not violate any other rule of the forum. People see this as an abuse of authority. 4) Troy is not the only one to complain to the admins. I personally know of several others, myself included. However we all agree that we want you to continue to be the mod. We ALL value your opinion and your vast knowledge. We just don't want the threads deleted or locked.

I've seen some of this sort of commotion before (elsewhere), and while the occasional controversy can spice things up a bit it's not in the best long-term interest of a forum for it to be either continual or so close to the surface that it erupts on a regular basis. Getting this resolved is more important than any inconvenience posed by any need for the members to monitor more than one forum. Not that that is really much of a burden - you don't come here to ask or answer questions about other make cars that you might have. Other boards keep powertrain, chassis, electrical, etc., topics completely separate, so I see no problem splitting off the stuff that might be considered too "high-tech" for the most general 'Classic Mustang' audience.

Maybe it would be a good idea to avoid using the 'Restomod' tag in the name of any new forum, particularly if it ends up being a subforum to 'Classic'. Magazine claim to the term aside, there's just too much emotion tied up in that word here. If we're trying to kill off this controversy, we need to wipe out as many of the 'hot buttons' as possible and get rid of the associations that people have come to make. Not put one of them right up front.
ORIGINAL: Soaring


The problem as I see it is that as the moderator a lot of you think my opinion on any subject is more important or carries more weight than any one of yours. Had any one of you taken the position that I have taken, it wouldn't be a big deal, and probably not even be up for discussion.

Glen, it's not a matter of whether anybody thinks your opinion is more important simply because you are a moderator that's behind all of this. That's something that's earned over time, experience, and sweat equity. Not by membership status. I don't think that this is particularly in question (last week's electrical "short-circuit" notwithstanding).

But information and opinion posted by a moderator does bring with it at least the perception of carrying more weight. If nothing else, the ability of a moderator to unilaterally take certain actions not available to the membership at large means that a moderator may feel free to post under fewer restrictions than what the rest of us are required to comply with, and may attempt to control the general direction that a forum takes. And unless I'm reading too much into it, Rule #13 in the recently-expanded list of Mustang Forum Rules actually puts this in writing. I realize that I'm still something of a newbie here, but I do have several thousand posts scattered across a dozen or so automotive fora, so this is a considered opinion rather than a snap judgment.

A forum can go somewhat 'stale' if the variety of topics is artificially limited and everybody with 100 or more posts knows the "conventional wisdom answers" to most of those by heart. And yes, I'm aware that this could cut both ways.

Edited for formatting

Norm
(vote to follow)

Doesn't make sense to separate them. If you put in a Basic forum, the more experienced and knowledgeable members will frequent it less, thereby weakening education ofthe newbies. Maybe the solution is to add a forum for Classic vs Restomod debate? I think we probably just need to quit whining about which is rught and realize that there are different strokes for different folks. Is one right or better? NO.

ORIGINAL: gothand

My knee-jerk reaction was to vote to not split the forum up.Â* After reading all the responses and thinking about it further, I'd change my vote if it means that there will be a place that it is okay with the powers to be to dare deviate from how the vehicle rolled off of the factory line.Â* My guess is that all but a handful of posters would just migrate over to that forum and park there full time (almost everybody deviates from stock to one degree or another).

For the life of me I cannot figure why there seems to be a chip on the shoulder of many self proclaimed "purists".Â* Why is it so threatening to dare modify a ride to make it more fast, fun, safe or reliable?Â* Why are Granada brakes okay but EFI isn't?Â* Is there some great love for forgetful sedans yet hatred for the engine that reinvigorated the Mustang nameplate?

What I find completely ironic is that those throwing the rocks live in glass houses!Â* Since when did Magnum 500's come on '65 coupes?Â* I don't seem to recall seeing these wheels on the option list either.[sm=bling.gif]
http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL1600/811984/1444315/205370203.jpg


I agree 100% with you. It's all about FUN and my fun is moding MY 65 coupe..it's MY 65 coupe. If Soaring has fun restoring his...it is his car...I'll never tell him NOT to do that. Now, if it's a Shelby...leave it stock. A BOSS or CJ...leave it stock. Mine was a restomad in 1978 long before the term was coined.
The best 32 Roadster in America is in Columbia, SC and it ain't stock! The body is, but the mechanicals are all new. Personally, I just ignore the 'do it my way or you're wrong' crowd.

This is the last straw, and its bull crap!!!!!!!!!!! I'm leaving the forum till all this blows over one way or the other. If you guys are so childish that you can't get along with someone cuz they want to paint their car the "wrong" color. Its whatever, split it if you like, leave it if you want. Someone pm me when ya'll get it figured out.

ORIGINAL: valley firearms

I've never been to therapy but this is great. If the vote talley were zeroed and started all over again the results would be different.



Good looking car....but please tell me you aren't running ladders bars on the street. BTDT(it makes the rear axle a stabilizer bar)....never again!

I like the single forum. I find the multi forum format of Vintage Mustang to be confusing. Should I post to the general forum, modified or concourse because some questions span each.

So I voted for a single forum, but would like to see us have a kinder and gentler world where technical questions are answered in an objective and honest manner. If someone ask about safety up grades we give them the best possible advice on what to do without questioning whether or not the up grades should be made to preserve the 1950 and 1960 engineering that went into the cars. Some posts ask for opinions, e.g. what do you think about adding an orange stripe to my purple chromillusions car. So tell them you think the car would be uglyif that is what you think. However, try to do this in a manner that doesn't insult the person's ancestry.

ORIGINAL: Timelockmind

Thispoor guy is really hated by some.

I doubt many hate him at all. Glen pushes buttons to try to get reactions. So he gets a lot of reactions from those that he ticks off, but I wouldn't call it hate.

If anything I think most consider him a very valuable resource. The unfortunate thing is that when someone becomes bias they do loose some credibility. Eventually his occasional spat will start to overshadow all the great advice he gives. So I hope he cleans up his act before that day comes.

I say leave the section the way it is! Am I going to have to post to two sections when I have a question about a fender, floorpan,or door alignment. There are alot of questions that have nothing to do with restomod or classic.

OK, I think there needs to be a little clarification on my part:

1. I don't hate Glen, I honestly do value his knowledge and I think this place wouldn't be the same without him.

2. My car is probably 97% stock, however I really enjoy reading about the modifications that everyone makes to their cars. There is some awesome work being done, and it is amazing to see the original ideas and skilled craftsmanship being performed. Reading negative comments from the moderator of the section takes away from that enjoyment. It has gotten to the point where I would almost rather not read a thread about modifications because I know that it will, more than likely, include a publicly valued opinion making a derogatory comment.

3. Regardless of what Glen thinks, and no matter how much he disagrees, his opinions and posts are viewed as higher or more important than the average member. He has followers, whether he wants them or not. New members (including myself at the time) start by looking up to him, and respecting him. This happens right up until the point where he tells them their cars are no longer considered Mustangs, he calls them names, or sends them cuss word filled private messages. Then the respect is gone.

3. I am NOT the only one complaining to the administrators. As a matter of fact, I wasn't even the first one who complained to the administrators.

4. I agree that a better solution to separating the masses would be for all to be able to get along peacefully in one section. However, in order for that to happen, the name calling (yes, that is a personal thing, not a car thing), Equipment bashing (how would Edelbrock, a sponsor of this site, feel if they knew the person with the most posts, who is also a moderator, often calls their carburetors POS?) and random thread moving/locking/deleting (EFI on a classic Mustang really is classic Mustang related, as is the SuperSnake thread and many others) has to stop. Since that change (which would actually solve everything) has been suggested and ignored, an alternative solution was presented. To have a Stock subsection and a Modified (not restomod) subsection. If you can't take away the problem, take away the way for the problem to exist. I really do wish the original poll/post would have been worded correctly and unbiased from the beginning, I have a feeling the results would have been quite different.

Btw, Tastes Great. :D

ORIGINAL: hity645

What exactly is a restomod? Is adding disc brakes and 3 point seat belts more of a "modern addition"? I know there is a difference between stock and non-stock but wheres the line drawn?


According to the definition from Mustang's Plus, the business either credited or blamed for the restomod craze, any of the modifications you listed would be restomod because it is an intentional change from the factory original car. That would make just about everybody on this board a restomodder to some degree or another. :D As to where the line is drawn ...

What Is A Restomod?





After talking to many Mustang enthusiasts over the course of many years and hearing what each one considers the difference between stock and restomod, I have come up with a short one line statement that I feel best describes what a Restomod Mustang is:A Restomod Mustang is a Mustang that has been intentionally changed
by using products that are not original for that Mustang.The key words in this statement are 'intentionally changed' because that tells us that a decision was made to change the car from factory original. Restored and modified or restored and modernized, if you prefer. Some of these intentional changes can be stereos systems, aftermarket tires and wheels, engine dress up kits, paint work, interior color combinations, and anything else that someone does to their Mustang that intentionally makes it look, drive or perform differently than when it came off the assembly line.

The way I see it is that if we do two different sections then almost every one of us will have to go to the restomod section because we do not have original (concourse) cars.... if you put a export brace or montecarlo bar on then its a restomod, if you have put granda disc breaks then its a restomod, if you put something other then bias tires then its a restomod, if you have a paint job that's not the color that came on your car then its a restomod, if you have... need I go on or have I made my point?

If you don't like the opinions shared on the forum (or any forum) then you don't have to log on, nobody is making you. Plus your doing this over the Internet I mean come on, are you really going to let your feelings get hurt from someone you know through the Internet.

i think that if we seperate it will take away form our ********** knowledge because we will be split but thats just me

Here is how I feel:
(for what its is worth)

I enjoy coming here and learning.
Every single car here is its own creation.
Every creator has his own views and theory of how things should be, and how they like them. This is why each of us has our own Mustang.
I don’t think separating the forum is good from the knowledge stand point.
Everyone has their own way of accomplishing the same things.
Professionally I write programs for CNC machines, design tooling for machine tools, and supervise 33 people on a daily basis. I am challenged everyday with this type of balance.
I have read posts in this section ranging from hanging a fiberglass panel to what is the best way to polish chrome, and have learned from the experience of others.
We all enjoy our cars, we all enjoy working on them, and we all can learn from each other.
I have decided to do many things based on information from diehard stockers, and restmodders, and feel I am more confident and better prepared because of it.

Think of us as a Jazz band (for lack of a better analogy)
Drums sound good
Sax sounds good
Trumpet sounds good
Bass etc…all sound good on their own.
Together, the band sounds great…even though the drummer and the guitarist have their differences.

Good God leave the forum alone.
If Soarin pisses you off then just consider the source. A grumpy, yet knowledgable, old fart. Deal with it accordingly. He has written some stuff that has rankled me a time or two but I have not given him the authority to upset me. Like water off of a ducks back.

ORIGINAL: fastbackford351

Good God leave the forum alone.
IfÂ* Soarin pisses you off then just consider the source.Â* A grumpy, yet knowledgable, old fart.Â* Deal with it accordingly.Â* He has written some stuff that has rankled me a time or two but I have not given him the authority to upset me.Â* Like water off of a ducks back.




Here is the biggest thing about 'purists' that just gets my ass.....the Mustang, in 1964/65/66 became the most modified by their original owners than any car in history. Warshawky's had and enire section dedicated to the car within a year of its introduction. Almost everybody did SOMETHING to them. Even the ones that are now worth much more stock than modified. As I have stated,
do what you want to yours but if you don't like what I did to mine...please keep it to yourself and definitely DO NOT voice your opinion to me.....you won't like the reply.

Why not another section. I have took my bashings on here from being called a liar, belittling my rides, to having my car(s) called a POS. If a new section is formed, it may solve a lot of problems, the "Classic" guysand their"Moderator(s)"can play in one place, and the"Resto" guys and their(s), in another.This is how a forum grows. And in this case, growth is good. If I held an interest in "Mustang Forums" as a sponsor or owner, this would have been done a long time ago.For some reason it didn't work, all you have to do is change it back.Another sectionmay even attract some new members that will stay around a while.

ORIGINAL: Grimm

Am I going to have to post to two sections when I have a question about a fender, floorpan,or door alignment. There are alot of questions that have nothing to do with restomod or classic.


No.

Then again, I don't see deciding where to open up a new topic as being much of a problem. Just a little different way of having to do things(and we all tend to resist change to some extent) that requires slightly more thought first.

There are a few topics that clearly belong in a separate forum, at least given the current situation. Most of us already know what they are, and Glen said right up front in post #1 that he would move "misplaced" threads there as necessary. The majority of general discussions would stay right here. It really isn't the problem on other message boards that folks here are imagining it would be.

Sure, it's likely that there would be someloss of response to questions, at least in the beginning while things get straightened out. For example, those people who are more tuned in to EFI than carbs won't be quite as likely to respond to carb questions. But that does not mean that all of the carb experts will go MIA. Or even that the best ones will.


Norm

ORIGINAL: gothand

ORIGINAL: hity645

What exactly is a restomod? Is adding disc brakes and 3 point seat belts more of a "modern addition"? I know there is a difference between stock and non-stock but wheres the line drawn?


According to the definition from Mustang's Plus, the business either credited or blamed for the restomod craze, any of the modifications you listed would be restomod because it is an intentional change from the factory original car. That would make just about everybody on this board a restomodder to some degree or another. :D As to where the line is drawn ...

What Is A Restomod?





After talking to many Mustang enthusiasts over the course of many years and hearing what each one considers the difference between stock and restomod, I have come up with a short one line statement that I feel best describes what a Restomod Mustang is:A Restomod Mustang is a Mustang that has been intentionally changed
by using products that are not original for that Mustang.The key words in this statement are 'intentionally changed' because that tells us that a decision was made to change the car from factory original. Restored and modified or restored and modernized, if you prefer. Some of these intentional changes can be stereos systems, aftermarket tires and wheels, engine dress up kits, paint work, interior color combinations, and anything else that someone does to their Mustang that intentionally makes it look, drive or perform differently than when it came off the assembly line.


I left the forum a while back (as did a few others) just because of BS like this. I just stopped in to see what was new only to find the same issue still killing the forum. It's not the members bickering among themselves, it's the management bickering with the members and then closing the thread if it gets too hot.

A classic is a classic is a classic, PERIOD.

And BTW, if the above quoted definition is used to describe what a restomod is, Glen's car would be considered a restomod since his Magnum 500's were not available on any mustang until 1969 and then only on Boss cars.

This used to be a great place to hang out and have some spirited discussions. Now not only is big brother watching, he's trying to get you under his thumb. I know some of you won't agree but that's how I feel.

I agree with ford351 just think of soaring as cantankerous old Texan when he ticks you/me off. I have notseen the PM's sent and I don't want to either. People need to think bollocks toanybodies opinion as it's my car and I will mess it up how I want. For example take super snakes car quality work, really intresting seeing it built before my eyes but would I want it as my own hell no.... correction I would want it but thenI would sell it and get something more to my taste!!! That statement doesn't demeen his car now does it?

ORIGINAL: superdavid

This is the last straw, and its bull crap!!!!!!!!!!! I'm leaving the forum till all this blows over one way or the other. If you guys are so childish that you can't get along with someone cuz they want to paint their car the "wrong" color. Its whatever, split it if you like, leave it if you want. Someone pm me when ya'll get it figured out.


Ditto...
And mechanically I just finished my wife's '65 F/Btoday - what a shame, I was so excited to post pics and what I had learned so faralong theway. What a great journey it is/was. I've learned a lot by lurking and occasionally posting here. I thought I'd hit the lottery when I discovered this forum - but have seen it become sour grapes due to snippy comments about other peoplesrides. Glen - for someone who was a teacher I find most of your approach/comments interesting to say the least. When Ireada nasty comment and all I want to do is go find another forum. So far I've just shrugged it off but there comes a time when enough is enough. For what it's worth - change my vote to split the forum to "Concours Correct Mustangs" and name the other group "The Fun Bunch".

I'm going to start on my '68 now& I think I'll go over to Mustang Steve's and post there.

It's one thing to ignore the derogatory posts made by people (or moderators) who break the rules. Although it shouldn't require one, that is a relatively easy, self-imposed solution to that problem.

It's an entirely different thing to be denied the information provided in on-topic threads that are locked/moved/deleted because they don't agree with the moderator's opinions on what should and should not be done to a classic Mustang.

My 2 cents,
I voted to leave it alone,there aren't enough classics here stock or modified to bother .
One of the reasons I don't post very often is the negative reactions that are posted when someone asks or answers a legitimate question.
You guys lambast Holley carbs and talk up Autolite or Edelbrock or visa a versa when all of them were born at Holley or Carter in the first place.
Many Mustangs had Holley carbs from the factory and the Autolites were more or less Holley's with some Ford tooling changes.
The Edelbrock carbs are the old Carter design and were used mainly on Mopars.
But,I digress,let it alone,if you don't like what someone has done to their car there is no need to bite their head off.
On the other hand,if you have something constructive to add I'm sure it's appreciated by someone.

Original owner 1969 Boss 429--Modified to suit my tastes and today's driving needs.
And it has not one ,but 2 Holley Carbs

ORIGINAL: 69boss429

My 2 cents,
I voted to leave it alone,there aren't enough classics here stock or modified to bother .
One of the reasons I don't post very often is the negative reactions that are posted when someone asks or answers a legitimate question.
You guys lambast Holley carbs and talk up Autolite or Edelbrock or visa a versa when all of them were born at Holley or Carter in the first place.
Many Mustangs had Holley carbs from the factory and the Autolites were more or less Holley's with some Ford tooling changes.
The Edelbrock carbs are the old Carter design and were used mainly on Mopars.
But,I digress,let it alone,if you don't like what someone has done to their car there is no need to bite their head off.
On the other hand,if you have something constructive to add I'm sure it's appreciated by someone.

Original owner 1969 Boss 429--Modified to suit my tastes and today's driving needs.
And it has not one ,but 2 Holley CarbsÂ*


Bought it new? Cool. Knowing what I do about how Ford undercarbed that motor (735 cfm Holley..right?) I'd be willing to bet large that (did you say 2-625 cfm carbs) really wakes that motor up!

ORIGINAL: NorCalTroy

It's one thing to ignore the derogatory posts made by people (or moderators) who break the rules.Â* Although it shouldn't require one, that is a relatively easy, self-imposed solution to that problem.

It's an entirely different thing to be denied the information provided in on-topic threads that are locked/moved/deleted because they don't agree with the moderator's opinions on what should and should not be done to a classic Mustang.

The person who would do that should be relieved of his duties. Period.

Two 715 Holley's,whichwere rereleased versions(by Holley) of the carbs that Ford put on some 427's from the factory.
And,yes they woke up the potential that was always there.
The 11.5 Pistons and hyd roller don't hurt either.

local://upfiles/25247/499A532C0CB94BA3B2C9CDA827682E2D.jpg

ORIGINAL: mikethebike


ORIGINAL: NorCalTroy

It's one thing to ignore the derogatory posts made by people (or moderators) who break the rules. Although it shouldn't require one, that is a relatively easy, self-imposed solution to that problem.

It's an entirely different thing to be denied the information provided in on-topic threads that are locked/moved/deleted because they don't agree with the moderator's opinions on what should and should not be done to a classic Mustang.

The person who would do that should be relieved of his duties. Period.


A link to a good example thread:
http://www.mustangforums.com/m_3273134/tm.htm

I wish I could post links to the many, many others... alas, I can not. They have been deleted.

The car we are building (JMD) is definately not a stock restoration. Even though it is not I have no problem with the section or the moderator ( In fact I am looking foreward to going to TX for the car show and perhaps a little golf and some drinks [sm=alcoholic.gif][sm=icon_rock.gif])
There are so many good informants on both sides of either being modified or stock and a lot of times it helps to have both. It would be rediculous for the sections to split.
[sm=bicker.gif]A few of you take things to seriously and need to kick back and relax( things are not half bad:D)

IMO this whole subject is a waste of time.

I do not agree with either "extreme position" regarding this issue as a whole, I think that both extreme positions are both right in some regards, and wrong in some regards, and the answer to the problem should be met with an agreement to disagree for all parties involved.

We need to face the facts that the "concours vs. modified" argument has been going on since long before anyone was a member of this forum, and it will likely go on untill long after the internal combustion engine has been outlawed. Since no one is going to change anothers opinion on the subject at hand we would all be better off notignoring or getting pissed off aboutthe situation, but instead by making the best of it.

I see alot of people here giving Glen a hard way to go, I have been sideways with him in the past over nothing really, just a hurt ego. In any case, he has done much for the classic section and I think he has earned more respect than he is getting here.

I don't know if anyone else here has noticed, but I think Glen has tried to accept the idea of restomods and tried to get along with everyone, but I think that we are allcaptive to our opinions to one degree or another, he is no different.The older we get the more captive we become. In other words, I believe that we all know whatwe shoulddo, but knowing and doing are two very different things. I could stand to loose some weight, but knowing this and doing this are two different things.

Perhaps it would not hurt any of us to swallow our pride and give Glen the benifit of the doubt on this one, andtry to get along.

ORIGINAL: 68SCode4speed

And mechanically I just finished my wife's '65 F/Btoday - what a shame, I was so excited to post pics and what I had learned so faralong theway. What a great journey it is/was. <snip>

BS! You post the pics and stories now mister! [sm=ttiwwp.gif]

Seriously, don't let one or two guys with chips on their shoulder deny you the pride of displaying your handiwork and us from seeing it and learning from your experiences.

I, myself would love to see the photos of the build. As far as the "Resto-Classic" debate, you know where my vote went (split'em up). Just got back from Carlisle All Ford Nationals were I had the pleasure of meeting and parking beside "69boss429" as part of the "Invivational display". What a great time we had.We literally talked to hundreds people. Not once did I ever hear a derogatory comment made about any of the cars in the display. Why can't that be that way on here? Same ole horse, different day. Again, I would love to see a "Restomod" section in "Mustang Forums".

nice car boss! my dad was bidding on a dual quad intake for his 70 boss 9 on ebay not to long ago, he set his max bid to about 3 grand as i recall (auction sniper) then when he went back to check it it sold for 8!! the car is a beast off the line but with a 5th gear and more carbage it would be super car territory. anyway, back to the thread (sorry for gettin OT)

ORIGINAL: EmperorOfChicken

nice car boss! my dad was bidding on a dual quad intake for his 70 boss 9 on ebay not to long ago, he set his max bid to about 3 grand as i recall (auction sniper) then when he went back to check it it sold for 8!! the car is a beast off the line but with a 5th gear and more carbage it would be super car territory. anyway, back to the thread (sorry for gettin OT)


It's 78% to 21%,so I think were beating a dead horse here.
Blue Thunder repops the 2x4 manifold.Ford only cast about 16 originals.I was lucky enough to buymine in 1972 from Holman and Moody

ORIGINAL: JMD

I do not agree with either "extreme position" regarding this issue as a whole, I think that both extreme positions are both right in some regards, and wrong in some regards, and the answer to the problem should be met with an agreement to disagree for all parties involved.

<snip>

Perhaps it would not hurt any of us to swallow our pride and give Glen the benifit of the doubt on this one, andtry to get along.


If we were all on the same footing, member status-wise, that's precisely the way it would work. But that just brings us right back to where this all started. I've seen this scenario play out elsewhere. Once, and only very briefly at that.

I understand that as you get older that opinions tend to become more rigid, and that it's easy to backslide even as you attempt to adapt to new circumstances. I know that Glen has listened to a few suggestions, but perhaps some of this stuff represents too big of a step to swallow in a single bite.

It's not that splitting this forum is a particularlydesirable thing to do in and of itself. What I'd hope is that it be the path of least disturbance/disruption, with the overall benefit outweighing the negatives. I don't see the possibility of merging them back together at some future time being ruled out.


Norm

ORIGINAL: Norm Peterson

If we were all on the same footing, member status-wise, that's precisely the way it would work. But that just brings us right back to where this all started. I've seen this scenario play out elsewhere. Once, and only very briefly at that.

I understand that as you get older that opinions tend to become more rigid, and that it's easy to backslide even as you attempt to adapt to new circumstances. I know that Glen has listened to a few suggestions, but perhaps some of this stuff represents too big of a step to swallow in a single bite.

It's not that splitting this forum is a particularlydesirable thing to do in and of itself. What I'd hope is that it be the path of least disturbance/disruption, with the overall benefit outweighing the negatives. I don't see the possibility of merging them back together at some future time being ruled out.
Norm

I am not trying to minimize what you are saying, but realizing that everyone is not on the same footing is part of life that we should all learn to live with. It seems that we as Americans are a little more concerned about what is "fair" than the real issues at hand, I do not think that this discussion is an exception to this observation.

While I agree that the forum should choose the path of least disturbance, I disagree that spliting the section is the best thing to do. My contention is that I don't really like to see a thread moved, locked,or deleted, but if it does, so what? Really, no one is getting hurt.

IMO, we are getting side tracked on what we might see as the negative aspects of the forum while disregarding the good aspects. A search for perfection on this earth will certainly leave us disapointed!

I like the bickering, its hilarious! I still love you Glen! Everyone get over yourselves!

ORIGINAL: JMD

My contention is that I don't really like to see a thread moved, locked,or deleted, but if it does, so what? Really, no one is getting hurt.


I suppose you are correct that no one is really getting hurt when on-topic threads get moved/locked/deleted. But how many people does it help? Isn't the whole point of having a classic Mustang forum to help people with classic Mustangs? There is a huge difference between not hurting someone and actually helping them. No one is getting hurt by leaving the threads in place either, so why not just do that?

ORIGINAL: NorCalTroy

ORIGINAL: JMD

My contention is that I don't really like to see a thread moved, locked,or deleted, but if it does, so what? Really, no one is getting hurt.


I suppose you are correct that no one is really getting hurt when on-topic threads get moved/locked/deleted. But how many people does it help? Isn't the whole point of having a classic Mustang forum to help people with classic Mustangs? There is a huge difference between not hurting someone and actually helping them. No one is getting hurt by leaving the threads in place either.


We can "But" each other all day long, but still, IMO, it is really not a big deal. :D

So then me adding disc brakes to my car would make it a restomod? Wow.

I can see it now with two sections, someone who has by the definition changed their car will ask a question and it will get sent to the classic section where the mod will see its a restomod stang and move it right back where it will get locked or some form of tug-a-war will take place.

ORIGINAL: hity645

So then me adding disc brakes to my car would make it a restomod? Wow.

I can see it now with two sections, someone who has by the definition changed their car will ask a question and it will get sent to the classic section where the mod will see its a restomod stang and move it right back where it will get locked or some form of tug-a-war will take place.



:DKind of like a man without a country, (remember that story), where the traitor is transfered from ship to ship, never coming ashore.....:D

ORIGINAL: hity645

So then me adding disc brakes to my car would make it a restomod? Wow.

I can see it now with two sections, someone who has by the definition changed their car will ask a question and it will get sent to the classic section where the mod will see its a restomod stang and move it right back where it will get locked or some form of tug-a-war will take place.


I see your point, and a good one. I suppose we would have to have a really good definition of what exactly is a restomod. Questions like changing from a 2 barrel to a 4 barrel would stay on the classic section, and switching from a carburetor to an EFI setup would go to the restomod section perhaps? I don't know, I didn't come up with the idea in the first place.

ORIGINAL: Soaring

I see your point, and a good one. I suppose we would have to have a really good definition of what exactly is a restomod. Questions like changing from a 2 barrel to a 4 barrel would stay on the classic section, and switching from a carburetor to an EFI setup would go to the restomod section perhaps? I don't know, I didn't come up with the idea in the first place.
the thing is, to me, EFI is about the only mod I can think of that would indicate "restomod" when done by itself. Maybe IRS, would fall into that group too, but I don't see to many posts on that subject anyway.

The thing is, most little mods by themselves are no big deal (as you said 2bbl to 4 is no biggie). So I'd guess 99% of all the mod topics would still stay in the classic forum anyway.

edit: to clarify, I'm not disagreeing with you Soaring. I'm just pointing out a large problem with having 2 sections.

My turn.
- I getpissed off when someone asks a general question and the 'restomod' crowd's first line of response is to modify the car in question.
- I get pissed off when someone asks a specificcomponent question and get evasive answers that lead to put in a bigger engine.
- I get pissed off when a new member asks a question about why his car stalls or won't start and the thread winds up with some asinine statement about a whole new whatever.
I prefer to restore cars - (Websters - to bring back to a former or normal state..) not to modify (Websters - to change slightly..) them. I use the word 'prefer' because I have done modifications that would boggle your minds to a lots of stuff, cars included. But I DO NOT LIKE THE IMPLICATION THAT I AM WRONG OR FOOLISH IN MY PERSUIT OF RESTORATION.
Glen and I are about the same age where being contentious and cantankerous are a badge of honor. We earned it. You can sufferer thru it. You will get there soon enough. I will make not extensive effort to insult you or you car but I will make it a point NOT to assist someone on this forum that I find to be contemptible.
On the other hand, I enjoy the antic of some of the younger members, hell, I've got wine in my collection older than most of them. When a tire don't fit, I laugh - been there, done that - and I got experience out of the situation, I've managed to have done it twice.
I've sent private e-mails to a few on the this forum in responce to there querry's and got many positive replys. I've given advice in many instances where no-one else would bother.
That's about it - except one more thing , maybe two - this is not a thirty minuite sit-com world. Patience is a good thing, take your time and do it right. And to the 'text-message' set - got back to school, take an 'English as a First Language' course and learn to communicate.
Jim

So then why don't we have a concorse section for those who want to go strickly OEM. OEM subforum where people can find information and ask specific questions relating to OEM parts. And leave the current section the way it is for all general sort of questions?

The majority of people want to perform upgrades to brakes and other safety upgrades. Then there are the people who want to go show car OEM style.

No ladder bars, just wheelie bars[8D] Just kidd'in. There were ladder bars on the rear when I got it. They disapeared when ther rear was overhauled.ORIGINAL: mikethebike


ORIGINAL: valley firearms

I've never been to therapy but this is great. If the vote talley were zeroed and started all over again the results would be different.



Good looking car....but please tell me you aren't running ladders bars on the street. BTDT(it makes the rear axle a stabilizer bar)....never again!

ORIGINAL: 66GTKFB

<snip>
But I DO NOT LIKE THE IMPLICATION THAT I AM WRONG OR FOOLISH IN MY PERSUIT OF RESTORATION.
<snip>


Is this a common occurance Jim? Perhaps I'm completely oblivious, but this is the first I have time I have seen this concern raised on this board.

Although I've seen plenty of the get that POS Holley, Edelbrock, et al, carbs off of there and get the Autolite that came with it (never mind the fact that the engine itself may be far from stock) but have yet to see anything along the lines of get that POS Autolite off of your stock engine and put on a throw-me-down double pumper Holley.

I will certainly keep that in mindfuture postings.

With respect to topics that might better fit into a separate forum

Probably most of the suspension swap discussions would fit there as well. They all 'work' somewhat differently than OE (particularly the rear), and generally require different spring/shock/sta-bar tuning to work properly. In the rear, I'm talking about 3-links, torque arms, laydown coil spring sort of stuff here, as opposed to different leaf springs. IRS is a given. There has been talk of a DeDion, and at least one oddball street rod kit. Up front, there are tubular control arms, Mac struts, Mustang II-based swaps,etc. Several kits already exist, and others are still under development. These threadscan get rather heavy on theory.

Extensive chassis mods probably belong there as well. These tend to be one-of-a-kind or extremely limited production. If you're even thinking along this line, you should know that you're way past simple bolt-ons and standard-ish rebuilds. It might be a coin toss, but tranny swaps that require lifting the tunnel probably qualify here, as the tunnel is a major structural element in these cars, particularly in the convertibles.


Norm

ORIGINAL: hity645

So then why don't we have a concorse section for those who want to go strickly OEM. OEM subforum where people can find information and ask specific questions relating to OEM parts. And leave the current section the way it is for all general sort of questions?

The majority of people want to perform upgrades to brakes and other safety upgrades. Then there are the people who want to go show car OEM style.



That makes sense to me. Glen can handle the OEM sub-section and someone else can handle the other section. That would be a good solution to the problem also.

Instead of:
Classic Mustangs (presently one mod for all)

or:
Stock and Restomod (as suggested in this poll, with two different mods)

or:
Stock and Modified (my original suggestion, with two different mods)

how about:
Classic Mustangs (as it is now except with a new moderator)
with a sub-forum for concourse/OEM (moderated by Glen)

You guys can't just basically demote Glen because he can be aggressive about what he believes in. By saying that you are taking a low blow, insulting his moderating skills and saying he should be gone.

ORIGINAL: 66GTKFB

My turn.
I getpissed off when
I get pissed off when
I get pissed off when
I DO NOT LIKE THE
I will make it a point NOT


I enjoy the antic of


We need less negatives,,,, and more positives,,,,

We need to quit picking at the scab..............

I stick outta the threads when heat starts to pick up or I get the tail end of it. I don't know what Soarings stand is on stock vs. non-stock but it sounds like he is all for stock cars. With an OEM subforum we wouldn't need a new moderator. He can mod both, like said previously he's knows alot about mustangs. If the owners of the site decide to get a new mod then its their decision. We have no right to choose who, what and where people mod.

Jim - Agreed. We're starting to drift from the original topic a bit.

And the art of compromise is that everybody gives a little in order that everybody wins.


Jim - This topic has been moving too fast* for me to acknowledge that you were probably right about "equal footing", and that I probably reached a bit too far with my phrasing. Would you agree with "reasonably equal footing"?.

* see what I mean


Norm

ORIGINAL: Norm Peterson

Jim - Agreed. We're starting to drift from the original topic a bit.

And the art of compromise is that everybody gives a little in order that everybody wins.


Jim - This topic has been moving too fast for me to acknowledge that you were probably right about "equal footing", and that I probably reached a bit too far with my phrasing. Would you agree with "reasonably equal footing"?.

see what I mean


Norm
I can agree with you on both points, and I want to ensure that there is no friction between the two of us even though we see things a littlebit differently on this particular issue. I have always enjoied your posts and admiredthe depth and expression of your automotive knowledge. Thank You!!

ORIGINAL: Norm Peterson

Jim - Agreed. We're starting to drift from the original topic a bit.

And the art of compromise is that everybody gives a little in order that everybody wins.


Jim - This topic has been moving too fast* for me to acknowledge that you were probably right about "equal footing", and that I probably reached a bit too far with my phrasing. Would you agree with "reasonably equal footing"?.

* see what I mean


Norm


I agree with that part. It started as whether or not we wanted seperate forums, then turned into a "cyber war", with Soaring vs. Restomods

Good grief, bitching, bitching, bitching, lol.

Hey, Glen rubbed me the wrong when when I first started here (he hates my "restomod" seats), but now I love the guy, yes, he's a cranky ol' Texan, but I'm a crazy ol' Californian, so we are all even now.

:D

I don't want the classic forum to split in two, this is the ONLY forum I bother to post, I absolutely have NO interest whatsoever in any of the other forums in here, if this forum splits in two, Classic & Restomod, I'm going to be lost in trying to decide which one I wanna post in, remember, I'm the ONE forum post dude, lol.

[8D]

ut oh, yall dont wanna confuse ol galactusz now do ya?[8D]

Mustang Forums - Rules
2.
While debating and discussion is fine, respect your fellow enthusiasts. Being of a diverse background, members are likely to express different opinions, and while opinions may differ from yours, they are just that, opinions; and everyone is entitled to express theirs freely. We will not tolerate rudeness, insulting posts, or personal attacks. Do not flame, bother, bug, disrespect, hound or taunt ANYONE on the forums or through private messaging or chat room. If we feel a thread is getting out of hand we will close or delete it. You can/will lose your posting privileges if you continue this type of behavior


Seems to me pretty simple
If you dont have something to contribute to a subject, stay out of it. If everyone followed this rule, we wouldn't be having this debate about separating restos and classics.

ORIGINAL: hity645

So then why don't we have a concorse section for those who want to go strickly OEM. OEM subforum where people can find information and ask specific questions relating to OEM parts. And leave the current section the way it is for all general sort of questions?

The majority of people want to perform upgrades to brakes and other safety upgrades. Then there are the people who want to go show car OEM style.


We don'thave any trailer queen concours cars on here. So, that section would never get visited. 99.9 % of you guys have no problem with how the section is run. There's only one that is a thorn in my side. So, not to worry. Just keep on asking the questions and you guys with the answers keep on answering them.
Ignore what someone says that you don't like. Afterall, this is not a Utopia.

ORIGINAL: Aussie66Fastback

Mustang Forums - Rules
2.
While debating and discussion is fine, respect your fellow enthusiasts. Being of a diverse background, members are likely to express different opinions, and while opinions may differ from yours, they are just that, opinions; and everyone is entitled to express theirs freely. We will not tolerate rudeness, insulting posts, or personal attacks. Do not flame, bother, bug, disrespect, hound or taunt ANYONE on the forums or through private messaging or chat room. If we feel a thread is getting out of hand we will close or delete it. You can/will lose your posting privileges if you continue this type of behavior


Seems to me pretty simple
If you dont have something to contribute to a subject, stay out of it. If everyone followed this rule, we wouldn't be having this debate about separating restos and classics.


Our moderator doesn't want to follow those rules though, so unfortunately that doesn't help our situation. Also, it doesn't address the locking/moving/deleting of on-topic posts regarding classic Mustang modifications not approved by him.

ORIGINAL: Soaring

We don'thave any trailer queen concours cars on here. So, that section would never get visited. 99.9 % of you guys have no problem with how the section is run. There's only one that is a thorn in my side. So, not to worry. Just keep on asking the questions and you guys with the answers keep on answering them.
Ignore what someone says that you don't like. Afterall, this is not a Utopia.


That doesn't address the locking/moving/deleting of on-topic posts regarding classic Mustang modifications not approved by you either. Why do you do that?

Iagree with Galactusz, this is the only section I look at and post in. Please don't split it up, I learn alot from the stock and retomod guys!

ORIGINAL: NorCalTroy

ORIGINAL: Soaring

We don'thave any trailer queen concours cars on here. So, that section would never get visited. 99.9 % of you guys have no problem with how the section is run. There's only one that is a thorn in my side. So, not to worry. Just keep on asking the questions and you guys with the answers keep on answering them.
Ignore what someone says that you don't like. Afterall, this is not a Utopia.


That doesn't address the locking/moving/deleting of on-topic posts regarding classic Mustang modifications not approved by you either. Why do you do that?


You guys, and especially you NorCalTroy are completely off topic. This thread was started by me to get some feedback about how you feel about separating the section into two sections. Obvioulsly a vast majarority feel it needs to remain status quo.
Stick to the topic or face deletion. It's that simple

ORIGINAL: Soaring

We don'thave any trailer queen concours cars on here. So, that section would never get visited. 99.9 % of you guys have no problem with how the section is run. There's only one that is a thorn in my side. So, not to worry. Just keep on asking the questions and you guys with the answers keep on answering them.
Ignore what someone says that you don't like. Afterall, this is not a Utopia.


... and there's the problem Glen. You think (and act like) this is your forum to run.

It's not. It's all of ours, and you do notchoose to recognize or respect that.

All we ask is thatyou take your own advice...and "ignore what someone says you don't like"... then we wouldn't be having this 6 page discussion.....

ORIGINAL: Astrawn

Please don't split it up, I learn alot from the stock and retomod guys!
This is the whole issue in a nutshell, we are all better off if we can find a way to co-exist.

As stated before, the inability of these two camps to co-exist in the same place is not a new phenomenon, I believe that the vast majority of the posters on this section would like to find a way for these two camps toget along with each other,evenif we can't always agree with each other.

I thinkifthis canbe done, the exceptional people in thissection can make it happen,,,,, if we decide this is what we want to do.

We can play this all nignt Troy, but the simple fact is that you do not run the Mustang Forums, and this is my thread not yours.

He got you there troy

This is most likely the most mod friendly site and section you will ever encounter on the internet.

Personally, I could go either way on this one, I mean with two sections it would be easier to find answers to specific questions on some occasions and make it even more difficult with others. So either we "leave it alone" and work with the system that has been helpful to many or we go to a system where you may need to post the same question in two different sections so you can find the answer you are looking for. I do not see problems with what we have now, but if there are unhappy people with the way things are set up then I believe we should either open up two separate sections or find some kind of compromise.

ORIGINAL: blueovalboy7
or find some kind of compromise.
I think that the issue has been all but decided, I am seeing some sort of compromise in the wind.

after all, 4 out of 5 dentists surveyed,,, I mean section members surveyed prefer one section...

Hopefully we will find a balance acceptable to 99% of participants.

ORIGINAL: blueovalboy7

Personally, I could go either way on this one, I mean with two sections it would be easier to find answers to specific questions on some occasions and make it even more difficult with others. So either we "leave it alone" and work with the system that has been helpful to many or we go to a system where you may need to post the same question in two different sections so you can find the answer you are looking for. I do not see problems with what we have now, but if there are unhappy people with the way things are set up then I believe we should either open up two separate sections or find some kind of compromise.
Ok Bluepvalboy7 here is a question for you. "I want to take the steel styled wheels off my 1965 Fastback and add the newer 19 inch woopsidoos. Any advice on what the backspacing should be and what other modified wheels would you recommend to give my car that retro look? Do I need spacers, or will they bolt right up?
Where would you send that post?
Here's another. I have a Holley carburetor on a 289 and it stalls whenever I punch it. Can you help me adjust the 4160 carb so that I don't get that bog? etc,. etc, etc. I think you get my point.

my vote went to leaving it alone. even if someone is restomodding they still need to know info pertaining to the classics. i dont think this section is overcrowded, i think it is doing quite nicely.

ORIGINAL: Soaring

ORIGINAL: blueovalboy7

Personally, I could go either way on this one, I mean with two sections it would be easier to find answers to specific questions on some occasions and make it even more difficult with others. So either we "leave it alone" and work with the system that has been helpful to many or we go to a system where you may need to post the same question in two different sections so you can find the answer you are looking for. I do not see problems with what we have now, but if there are unhappy people with the way things are set up then I believe we should either open up two separate sections or find some kind of compromise.
Ok Bluepvalboy7 here is a question for you. "I want to take the steel styled wheels off my 1965 Fastback and add the newer 19 inch woopsidoos. Any advice on what the backspacing should be and what other modified wheels would you recommend to give my car that retro look? Do I need spacers, or will they bolt right up?
Where would you send that post?
Here's another. I have a Holley carburetor on a 289 and it stalls whenever I punch it. Can you help me adjust the 4160 carb so that I don't get that bog? etc,. etc, etc. I think you get my point.


yea, i get you, im more for leaving it alone, but whatever is decided on will not bother me. and like Shane said, i think this section is doing quite nicely, and i appreciate all the help i have received

ORIGINAL: NorCalTroy

ORIGINAL: Soaring

We can play this all nignt Troy, but the simple fact is that you do not run the Mustang Forums, and this is my thread not yours.


This may be a game to you Glen, but it isn't to me. I am simply trying to get an answer to a legitimate, on-topic question. You have the ability to justify your actions, yet you refuse to do so.

Why do you lock/move/delete on-topic posts about classic Mustang modifications?



You are relentless, I'll give you that.

:D

I think glen you have your answer on this question and this arguement should be locked and let it die

On edit: can we please get back to dicussing mustangs

ORIGINAL: mustanglover66

I think glen you have your answer on this question and this arguement should be locked and let it die


Yea, I think we areat this pointtoo...... unless there are any objections to locking this down... :D:D

but seriously, I do think we are there.

ORIGINAL: mustanglover66

I think glen you have your answer on this question and this arguement should be locked and let it die

On edit: can we please get back to dicussing mustangs


Thank you . This thread is officially locked and sent to admin.,

GROUP HUG[8D]

HONESTLY GUYS, I WOULD LIKE TO SEE A RESTOMOD SECTION BUT DO YOU THINK THAT WOULD STOP SOARING FROM COMMENTING THERE? JUST FACE IT, HE IS VERY OUTSPOKEN AND GRUMPY JUST LIKE I WANT TO BE WHEN I GET OLDER. I DECIDED THIS MORNING THAT I WILL NOT WORRY ABOUT WHAT OTHER PEOPLE THINK. I AM GOING TO BE JUST LIKE SOARING. SO THAT BEING SAID, RESTOMODS RULE!!!![8D][8D][8D]