Wheel Torque? (Full Version)

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Wheel Torque?

  

gt_stang101 -> Wheel Torque? (5/20/2007 4:22:40 PM)

Story:

Well, I bought 18" Saleens from AM not too long ago. Well I got them put on at a local tire shop that does pretty good work. They didn't use the air ratchet to tighten them down, they hand tightened them. Well when I drove it home that day there was a steering whell shake in it, blah blah blah. Well finally I got around to looking at it, turns out the wheels aren't rotating in balance. Neither one of the front ones. Now my question, since they've always been hand tightened, could that be the cause of them rotating out of balance? It's not the tire, it's the wheel, so is there a certain number you're supposed to torque them at?

Sorry for the long post, and thanks for any help.

  
gt_stang101 -> RE: Wheel Torque? (5/23/2007 9:58:16 AM)

Anyone? If I can't figure out what it is I'm going to buy two new wheels... [:(]

Norm Peterson -> RE: Wheel Torque? (5/23/2007 11:00:12 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: gt_stang101 turns out the wheels aren't rotating in balance. Neither one of the front ones.


Can't figure out what you mean.  Are you suggesting that the bolt pattern isn't centered in the wheel (and it rolls like a cam lobe), or that it wobbles as it rolls (like it was bent), or what?  Are they mounted using the correct lug nuts?

There is a torque spec for tightening wheels.  It depends on the lug size, but is generally around 80 ft-lbs for most cars.  That's with clean, dry threads (no lube of any kind).

Norm

gt_stang101 -> RE: Wheel Torque? (5/23/2007 3:54:00 PM)

Heh, love your name. I'm pretty sure that it's the bolts, for it to be both wheels. To test it we jacked the car up and put a can next to the wheel, turned the tire and you could tell that the wheel would move a good 1/8 of an inch on rotation. And yes, they're the proper lugnuts, but they were tightened by hand.

So you suggest torquing them all to 80 lbs with a torque wrench?

Norm Peterson -> RE: Wheel Torque? (5/23/2007 4:26:38 PM)

Check to see if an assembly washer is hanging things up (behind the wheel, may be stuck to them).  That might be enough to give you your 1/8" of lateral runout at the tire.  If you find any, just throw them away.

Final torquing by hand to a torque spec is something I've done for many years, though I now have a cordless impact wrench that I use to speed up the initial "snugging". 

Actually, most cars give a range of torque values at least in the shop manual, maybe something like 70 - 85 (example only).  Without information to the contrary, 80 or so should fall within the acceptable range for most cars.  Just so you don't think you have to loosen and start from scratch if you end up a few ft-lbs high, I'll note (but not recommend) that many shops run lug nuts down to 100 with the air wrench using a form of torque control. 

Anyway, tighten in a 'star' pattern, and it doesn't hurt to go 'round the pattern a second time since the first nut or two tightened occasionally relaxes as the others are tightened. 

Norm

gt_stang101 -> RE: Wheel Torque? (5/23/2007 4:44:03 PM)

There are two washer looking things on the bolts per wheel, which could give it that 1/8" like you said, but my dad said that they were part of the brakes... Are they the washers, or part of the brakes? Or do you need pictures to know?

Thanks for help btw. [:D]

Norm Peterson -> RE: Wheel Torque? (5/23/2007 4:58:17 PM)

They're only there to hold the rotors/drums on the axles at the assembly plant until the wheels get mounted.  OE wheels account for them in one way or another, but not all aftermarket wheels do.  Once the car leaves the factory, they serve no purpose and may be discarded.

Norm

AdderMk2 -> RE: Wheel Torque? (5/23/2007 7:07:21 PM)

mustangs typically use 100ft/lbs

gt_stang101 -> RE: Wheel Torque? (5/23/2007 7:51:42 PM)

     Just to make sure we're on the same page as to what we're talking about, here are some pictures of it. I told my dad about it and he said not to take it off, so I'm just confirming it one last time before I take it off, heh.

(Sorry for the low quality pictures, cell phone.)

[image]http://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t138/gt_stang101/Brake003.jpg[/image]

[image]http://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t138/gt_stang101/Brake002.jpg[/image]
[image]http://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t138/gt_stang101/Brake001.jpg[/image]

AdderMk2 -> RE: Wheel Torque? (5/23/2007 8:18:07 PM)

those small metal retainers are stock... thats how the car came. You CAN remove them, however, leaving them isnt gonna hurt anything

gt_stang101 -> RE: Wheel Torque? (5/23/2007 8:24:42 PM)

So that's not my problem, or the washers?

AdderMk2 -> RE: Wheel Torque? (5/23/2007 8:47:38 PM)

washers?

btw I still dont understand wtf you mean by "rotating in balance"

gt_stang101 -> RE: Wheel Torque? (5/23/2007 8:52:35 PM)

Yeah, the assembly washers that Norm was talking about.

I mean, when you spin the wheel, instead of it rotating evenly, it rotates unevenly... Kind of like it wobbles.

Norm Peterson -> RE: Wheel Torque? (5/23/2007 9:24:15 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: AdderMk2

those small metal retainers are stock... thats how the car came. You CAN remove them, however, leaving them isnt gonna hurt anything


What I'm getting at is that the back side of the aftermarket wheels may not allow for their thickness, and they are not letting the wheel sit flat against the rotor hat.  That appears to be the problem we're trying to fix.

Another reason for removing those things is to prevent them from gouging up the wheels (and leaving a bunch of stress concentration pits).

Norm

gt_stang101 -> RE: Wheel Torque? (5/23/2007 9:26:47 PM)

So, by removing them, it won't hurt anything?

AdderMk2 -> RE: Wheel Torque? (5/23/2007 9:43:52 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Norm Peterson

quote:

ORIGINAL: AdderMk2

those small metal retainers are stock... thats how the car came. You CAN remove them, however, leaving them isnt gonna hurt anything


What I'm getting at is that the back side of the aftermarket wheels may not allow for their thickness, and they are not letting the wheel sit flat against the rotor hat.  That appears to be the problem we're trying to fix.

Another reason for removing those things is to prevent them from gouging up the wheels (and leaving a bunch of stress concentration pits).

Norm


Those would be called hubcentric rings... and their job is to center the wheen on the hub. I have never used them on my own cars, and I dont feel they are needed.

gt_stang101 -> RE: Wheel Torque? (5/23/2007 10:05:46 PM)

One last question, what's the easiest way to get them off? Screwdriver, pliers?

AdderMk2 -> RE: Wheel Torque? (5/23/2007 10:08:53 PM)

use a screwdriver to spin then slightly, then use a pair of cutters, otherwise refered to as dykes, and cut them off

jslove1408 -> RE: Wheel Torque? (5/23/2007 10:23:00 PM)

they are called brake clips just yank those suckers off and that could solve your problem.

89 fox -> RE: Wheel Torque? (5/23/2007 10:25:05 PM)

if your wheels are lug centric...then you will need the hub centric rings to center the wheel to the hub...if your rims are hub centric rims....you don't need the ring

  

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