I agree and other than the E, Saleen does not take the engine out on these Saleen 3V N/A or S/C. So there guessing overall Crank Hp. I will tell you right now. That the 3V N/A does not have 335 crank hp. The pullies, which we have done plenty of before and after net 3-5 hp max. The exhaust system on the Saleen or not producing 30 hp. Neither is that reflash tune from saleen (which is a joke!) Fact is a Stock 3V N/A Saleen 2006 will put the same or even less hp to the wheels than a Stock GT.
I agree Dyno numbers mean nothing! There good to see your improvement with your mods. but thats all. The track is the only real test
First off, you really think, regardless of how ****ty Saleen's tune is, that an axle-back exhaust, underdrive pullies, air filter (not intake I know), and a reflash tune can't produce 30 more hp to the crank?? Thats rediculous, it easily does. The main reason is not truly these mods, but the fact that with this new tune the car is using 93 octane rather than 87. This makes the biggest difference. The only thing I've added for performance to my car is a catted X-pipe (maybe 8-15 hp). My older brother has an 07' Stock GT and when we race, I woop his ass! He is probably even a little better driver than I am. So I'm not trying to shut you down, just offereing a counterpoint considering I've had first hand experience with both of these cars
I have also had first hand experience. On a mustang Dyno, my car does dyno a little higher than a GT. but not 30 hp difference. There maybe 30 hp to the crank with the Pullies (2-4 hp), exhaust (3-5 hp).Air filter(3-5hp) Saleen Great tune (lol) but look the Weight of the car, the size of the rims and the tune is crap, Most Stock N/A Saleen will run a little slower in the 1/4 mile than a GT, assuming equal drivers. Fact is we put down 250 rwhp on a mustang dyno, 250 rwhp, with a custom tune about 270. Then we added a CAI off road x pipe and got about 285 (I think give of take) I understand your point and that was your experience, I am not trying to knock saleen, these cars need a custom tune.
Maybe I got stuck with a lame duck from ford. But not anymore!
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2006 Saleen #560 Hellion Powered If you need to know more, line them up!
I think you would be surprised to find out the true story about why "the Saleen tune is crap" and you made 20hp on you "dyno tune". Most of it amounts to the fact that the shop that you went to likes money, and they know how to get it from you.
I think you would be surprised to find out the true story about why "the Saleen tune is crap" and you made 20hp on you "dyno tune". Most of it amounts to the fact that the shop that you went to likes money, and they know how to get it from you.
Actually I am friends with the owner it did not cost me anything. Ask anyone on here and they will tell you that Saleen tune is not very good
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2006 Saleen #560 Hellion Powered If you need to know more, line them up!
nothings wrong with my numbers, The same dyno had mustang GT at 235-240 range. Looks like you read stuff and belive it, but the loss on a manuel is not 10% more like 17-20% thats a fact, about 20-22% on an auto. Mustang Dyno show lower numbers than a dyno jet. about 5-10% less and my 20's" loss about 5-8%. So my numbers are correct. 25% total loss with drivetrain loss, wheels size loss and mustang dyno loss compared to a dyno jet would be 252 rwhp. I was right around that. Sometimes you cant belive everything your read on here. But my numbers are comparable to everyone who has used my shop
well under these conditions, i did a little math myself. i took the lowest numbers you gave 17% and 5% for powertrain/20's. My E is rated at 550. that means that at 22%, thats 121 powerloss, 429 RWHP. but the 475 upgrade SC cars are making 431 stock...right? .... 22% of 475 is 370 something. and you're trying to say that its 17-20% and 5-8% so 22-28% of 475 is anywhere from 342-370RWHP.
quote:
ORIGINAL: Jonsey
2006 SC - 363 stock. 410 with 475 kit. +1 on the Saleen tune is not ideal. Custom tune as soon as the warranty is over in on the books for me.
roughly 9.3% of 400 is 363! roughly 13.4% of 475 is 410!
this proves that the percentages vary w/ your hp rating! 550 bhp would be roughly 15% loss, 475 roughly 13% loss, 400 roughly 10% loss.
the percentage will not vary with hp. what u are seeing is cars that are underrated from the factory (to get that 9.x%) and differences in dyno's. mustang dynos and dynojets read different, but significant differences will be seen between 2 different dynojets, or even the same dynojet on consecutive runs with the same car. Its inconsistant enough on the NA cars, i can only imagine what kinds of differences u guys with SC cars might see.
I think you would be surprised to find out the true story about why "the Saleen tune is crap" and you made 20hp on you "dyno tune". Most of it amounts to the fact that the shop that you went to likes money, and they know how to get it from you.
Crap may be a strong word, its ultra conservative.
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2006 Saleen #560 Hellion Powered If you need to know more, line them up!
nothings wrong with my numbers, The same dyno had mustang GT at 235-240 range. Looks like you read stuff and belive it, but the loss on a manuel is not 10% more like 17-20% thats a fact, about 20-22% on an auto. Mustang Dyno show lower numbers than a dyno jet. about 5-10% less and my 20's" loss about 5-8%. So my numbers are correct. 25% total loss with drivetrain loss, wheels size loss and mustang dyno loss compared to a dyno jet would be 252 rwhp. I was right around that. Sometimes you cant belive everything your read on here. But my numbers are comparable to everyone who has used my shop
well under these conditions, i did a little math myself. i took the lowest numbers you gave 17% and 5% for powertrain/20's. My E is rated at 550. that means that at 22%, thats 121 powerloss, 429 RWHP. but the 475 upgrade SC cars are making 431 stock...right? .... 22% of 475 is 370 something. and you're trying to say that its 17-20% and 5-8% so 22-28% of 475 is anywhere from 342-370RWHP.
quote:
ORIGINAL: Jonsey
2006 SC - 363 stock. 410 with 475 kit. +1 on the Saleen tune is not ideal. Custom tune as soon as the warranty is over in on the books for me.
roughly 9.3% of 400 is 363! roughly 13.4% of 475 is 410!
this proves that the percentages vary w/ your hp rating! 550 bhp would be roughly 15% loss, 475 roughly 13% loss, 400 roughly 10% loss.
the percentage will not vary with hp. what u are seeing is cars that are underrated from the factory (to get that 9.x%) and differences in dyno's. mustang dynos and dynojets read different, but significant differences will be seen between 2 different dynojets, or even the same dynojet on consecutive runs with the same car. Its inconsistant enough on the NA cars, i can only imagine what kinds of differences u guys with SC cars might see.
+1. I never heard or seen a increase of hp increase or decrease the Drivetrain loss %.
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2006 Saleen #560 Hellion Powered If you need to know more, line them up!
good posts guys. I will take pictures on dynoday when i dyno the car to show that there is no weight reduction done to the car and ill post a copy of my dynojet sheet including powertrain loss %.
they our questions are answered.
btw - it is on May 26
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Adam
2006 Saleen Extreme #132 - 456 RWHP (stock) - Scenic Roof - 1 of 4 with roof/color combo
what does weight have to do with ur dyno readings? it all depends on how fast the drums are turned. mustang dynos resist the spin while dynojets do not. but u can have a tank up there, or a plain engine hooked to an axle, and u will get the same numbers.
what does weight have to do with ur dyno readings? it all depends on how fast the drums are turned. mustang dynos resist the spin while dynojets do not. but u can have a tank up there, or a plain engine hooked to an axle, and u will get the same numbers.
every 100 lbs is like 10 hp or something. you might be right though...it might not change on a dyno....track, yes. im not sure, but you would think if you had 4 guys standing in your trunk weighing down the car, its going to be a little harder to spin the tires, even on a dynojet.
quote:
ORIGINAL: PolkThug
quote:
ORIGINAL: saleen281eguy ill post a copy of my dynojet sheet including powertrain loss %.
It can't tell you that.
i know.... i meant i was going to figure out the powertrain loss considering the BHP is actually 550, and post it w/ my dyno sheet.
quote:
ORIGINAL: SpecterGT260
good catch.... this guy seems to know less and less about whats going on
whatever you say...ive only been on this board for a month and i think ive developed some credibility w/ people.
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Adam
2006 Saleen Extreme #132 - 456 RWHP (stock) - Scenic Roof - 1 of 4 with roof/color combo
if u wanna know how it works: weight means nothing on a dyno. track yes, and the rule ur talking about (100 lbs = 10 hp) is relative effect. because, for cars at these levels, 10 hp is roughly .1 sec in the quarter mile. So if u are "paper racing", u would say car has is say 400 lbs lighter (or .4 sec faster), but car B is 40 hp up (or .4 faster) so they should still be even. but on a dyno there is NO slipping, the entire point of a dyno is to give wheel hp numbers. so weight reduction does not actually generate more hp, just the effect as if there was more hp.
hp is proportional to weight*acceleration (with other crap in the equation to account for whataver units u pick (hp or watts) (actually, i think power is a force/distance/time which ends up being mass*acceleration^2..... maybe) and whatever else, but these are the big ones, and its ok to generalize this way when thinking about trends and not actually calculating hp.
on a dyno, the weight invovled is that of the drivetrain (moving engine parts, driveshaft, wheels) and the drum itself. the drum is made heavy enough that the differences in DT weight from car to car is negligible. so now, with constant weight (drum +/- a little) hp is a direct function of acceleration. u accelerate the drum faster, u have more hp.
its also not uncommon for ratings to mean absolutely nothing. ur car is rated for 550 bhp, it may be, but it also may not. my car is rated at 305hp, but it will put that or more to the wheels stock. the 03 cobras are rated at 390 bhp, but they will put down 370-380 time and time again when stock to the paper filter. these cars are not experiencing near 0% loss, they are just factory underrated. the ls1 cars make about 350-360bhp and the cobras make around 420-430bhp. the ls1s were underrated because those are corvette numbers and chevy didnt want vette sales to drop if people could buy the same thing in an fbody, i dont know why the cobra is underrated.
hope that helps
< Message edited by SpecterGT260 -- 5/8/2007 10:03:37 AM >
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RE: Stock Dyno Numbers? - 
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