Hi guys -- first time poster here. Great site Got my 05 V6 Stang in December...and it is freaking awesome. However, when I bought it --used -- I cleverly didn't notice that it didnt have the traction control option.
So, a few weeks ago, in a light rain, I spun the hell out of my car on a highway onramp. Did a 360 INTO oncoming traffic. With my wife in the car. Yow. Luckily kept it off the divider and other cars.
Freaked out, I asked my dealer about installing the TCS option in my car. To my surprise, the dealer said this was 'impossible'. Called another one and got the same response.
My question to the good posters of this message board is --
1. Can I improve the stability of my car with other mods? Better tires (have the firellii options)? Stiffer rear differential? 2. Can non-Ford people install a TCS system?
Any help here would be greatly appreaciated.
< Message edited by drjgame -- 4/26/2007 4:51:31 PM >
Posts: 329
Joined: 4/17/2007 From: The Hinterlands of Minne-snow-ta Status: offline
quote:
ORIGINAL: Trill Gear Head
Posi traction and wider tires will help.
Wider what? In reading the original post, I get: rain...taking freeway ramp too fast...spin...traffic...scary.
First of all, in looking for a used Stang with ABS/TCS, I was amazed to find a serious shortage of those. This is Minne-snow-ta, where those of us smart enough to drive rear-wheel drive vehicles are fully aware of what roads look like when you go backwards. I looked at a gorgeous 05 V6, and when I found out it didn't have ABS, the sales rep just looked at me like, "what do you want that for". Maybe ignorance is bliss, but in this case, I wouldn't know.
Anyway, this poster lives in Hawaii, which from what i understand doesn't see much snow. ABS and TCS would be nice, but I don't see it as mandatory, like it should be in my part of the country. Maybe LSD would help, but probably not in the scenario described.
In my opinion, this about suspension and tires, not drivetrain. LSD won't help if the car is already going sideways.
When I deal with snow, this is what I do, and maybe it can be modified for driving in the rain in Heaven... er, I mean, Hawaii...
1 - Find a tire that has better traction. Wider is not better - wider hydroplanes faster, which is bad. Find a tread design that is better for rain. That might be the only thing you need to buy. 2 - Slower entry speeds for freeway ramps, especially in light rain, or when it first starts to rain - that's when the pavement still has all the dirt and grime. Maybe it's just my imagination, but driving in light rain can be trickier. 3 - Keep in mind that this is a rear-wheel-drive vehicle. These days, most cars are front-wheel drive, which is quite a bit different. In my opnion, I'd rather have rear-wheel drive, because I think it's more honest about driving conditions, and you can generally get out of sticky situations by letting off the throttle. But, if you don't get off the throttle when the back end starts coming around, you're toast. 4 - DO NOT USE CRUISE CONTROL. I used to travel for a living, and one time found a magazine called Corporate Traveller, or something like that. I picked it up, because it seemed to be for people like me. There was an article about cruise control, and about how it could be dangerous when traction is compromised. It never occurred to me until that moment, but I haven't forgotten it. Cruise Control only senses a decline in speed, not traction, and compensates by increasing throttle - exactly the opposite of what needs to be done when you start to spin.
One thing I've learned by watching amatuer dirt track racers - they steer with the rear wheels. The entire race is an exercise in "drifting". The inside front wheel is off the ground, the right front wheel is pointed in the opposite direction of the turn, and both rear wheels are spinning. Lap after lap, around every turn.
That's actually the fastest way around a dirt track! And, it's shown me what a rear wheel drive car is capable of in the right hands. Like I said, I prefer rear wheel drive, and believe it's far better than front wheel drive, but you need to know how to use it to the best advantage.
Posts: 329
Joined: 4/17/2007 From: The Hinterlands of Minne-snow-ta Status: offline
quote:
ORIGINAL: drjgame
Hi guys -- first time poster here. Great site Got my 05 V6 Stang in December...and it is freaking awesome. However, when I bought it --used -- I cleverly didn't notice that it didnt have the traction control option.
So, a few weeks ago, in a light rain, I spun the hell out of my car on a highway onramp. Did a 360 INTO oncoming traffic. With my wife in the car. Yow. Luckily kept it off the divider and other cars.
Freaked out, I asked my dealer about installing the TCS option in my car. To my surprise, the dealer said this was 'impossible'. Called another one and got the same response.
My question to the good posters of this message board is --
1. Can I improve the stability of my car with other mods? Better tires (have the firellii options)? Stiffer rear differential? 2. Can non-Ford people install a TCS system?
Any help here would be greatly appreaciated.
I'm not a mechanic, but I don't think a retrofitted TCS would be easy - sensors, wiring, computer logic - you'd probably be money ahead to trade the 05 in for something that already has TCS. My philosophy in life is that there aren't too many things that are impossible, but this is one of those things that's difficult enough that you probably don't want to attempt it.
Better tires should help....the stock BFGs are meant for minivans.
agreed the stock tires on these cars are utter crap.
to the op, some better tires would definately help you out man. i also don't have the traction control either, so i try to drive as safe as possibly during inclement weather until i can get better tires myself.
oversteer is your back end hitting the wall. understeer is your front end hitting the wall. horsepower is how fast you hit the wall. torque is how far you move the wall.
Installed the Response Edge Tires, and so far, they are pretty fricking sweet. I feel the road much better than w/the Pirelli's, and there does seem to be quite a difference in traction.
Have not had any rain, but am planning to take things slow til I get used to it. Thanks for all the responses.
Posts: 996
Joined: 2/26/2007 From: Green Mt State Status: offline
quote:
ORIGINAL: drjgame
Installed the Response Edge Tires, and so far, they are pretty fricking sweet. I feel the road much better than w/the Pirelli's, and there does seem to be quite a difference in traction.
Have not had any rain, but am planning to take things slow til I get used to it. Thanks for all the responses.
Here in Alaska one of a State Troopers favorite lines is 'too fast for conditions'. This type of ticket is given quite often when there is a wreck or driving mishap and is pretty much completely up to the discression of the Trooper at the scene.
Having driven MANY years on ice, I have some comments towards the comments given here. Those that claim a LSD will help, well from what I read in this situation that is EXACTLY opposite of reality. Example: try this if you have a 'non-posi' type rear next time it rains and you can find an empty parking lot go try and spin the car with the throttle. What happens ONLY one tire spins (inside tire usually) and the other rear tire just rolls along NOT allowing the rear end to brake loose and move sideways! Now try this SAME thing with a car with a posi type rear end. GUESS WHAT how fast do you want to spin the car around!!!! Wider tires? WRONG! In inclement road conditions wider tires (unless specifically designed for wet or ice) will hurt traction. It's called Pounds per Square inch!! Not to be misconstrued as ALL wide tires are bad in the wet… Having a posi traction type rear end does get better traction when trying to accelerate, BUT will cause the rear end of a rear wheel drive vehicle to slide sideways once both tires break traction because of to much throttle!!!!
With out being harsh, one needs to learn to drive every car they own. Each type of car drives different under different conditions!
< Message edited by 05SDI -- 5/16/2007 10:53:22 AM >
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Posts: 996
Joined: 2/26/2007 From: Green Mt State Status: offline
quote:
ORIGINAL: 05SDI
Here in Alaska one of a State Troopers favorite lines is 'too fast for conditions'. This type of ticket is given quite often when there is a wreck or driving mishap and is pretty much completely up to the discression of the Trooper at the scene.
Having driven MANY years on ice, I have some comments towards the comments given here. Those that claim a LSD will help, well from what I read in this situation that is EXACTLY opposite of reality. Example: try this if you have a 'non-posi' type rear next time it rains and you can find an empty parking lot go try and spin the car with the throttle. What happens ONLY one tire spins (inside tire usually) and the other rear tire just rolls along NOT allowing the rear end to brake loose and move sideways! Now try this SAME thing with a car with a posi type rear end. GUESS WHAT how fast do you want to spin the car around!!!! Wider tires? WRONG! In inclement road conditions wider tires (unless specifically designed for wet or ice) will hurt traction. It's called Pounds per Square inch!! Not to be misconstrued as ALL wide tires are bad in the wet… Having a posi traction type rear end does get better traction when trying to accelerate, BUT will cause the rear end of a rear wheel drive vehicle to slide sideways once both tires break traction because of to much throttle!!!!
With out being harsh, one needs to learn to drive every car they own. Each type of car drives different under different conditions!
+1 LSD won't help. You DO go SIDEWAYS... +1 NARROWER tires will help...
But the biggie, don't let an AUTOMATIC drive for you in bad weather!
You don't need to be going "too fast for conditions" if the auto downshifts as soon as you lose traction! I was only doing 25 when I spun out.
Start in 2nd gear, lower torque.
Lock out overdrive, until you actually want it (or leave it locked out).
Yes, it is an auto. I know that seems like a dumb question, but is it generally accepted that turning the overdrive off in slick conditions helps?
Again, I was probably going about 35-45 MPH -- entering a highway -- so I was pretty much in the sitch that SOHC describes. I am going to take it much, much slower in the rain.
Posts: 996
Joined: 2/26/2007 From: Green Mt State Status: offline
quote:
ORIGINAL: drjgame
Yes, it is an auto. I know that seems like a dumb question, but is it generally accepted that turning the overdrive off in slick conditions helps?
Again, I was probably going about 35-45 MPH -- entering a highway -- so I was pretty much in the sitch that SOHC describes. I am going to take it much, much slower in the rain.
NOT a dumb question at all.
Yes, turning the overdrive off in slick conditions helps maintain the road feel.
If your car is in OD and you lose traction for whatever reason, turn, swerve, puddle, your tranny will downshift to 4th and possibly throw you out of control.
If your car is in 4th and your wheels slip a little, it is LESS likely your tranny will downshift to 3rd because there is more torque in 4th than you would have in 5th.
What I am referring to is MANUALLY SHIFTING (2nd, 3rd, 4th, I don't use 1st or 5th) in really bad weather.
YOU AND ONLY YOU have total control of your car and how the power is applied to the pavement.
You will know that you don't want to upshift while turning, etc. The auto wouldn't know that.
When a wheel starts to spin during cornering, the tail end is coming out, moreso on a wet/slick surface.
TCS on an open differential simply pulses the brake on a wheel that's slipping, so power transfers to the other wheel. That's it. That's all it does.
Guess what an LSD does? The same thing, but faster and smoother -- it happens BEFORE the wheel begins to spin, as opposed to after, when the sensor compares the two tire speeds and notices they're seriously out of phase, and then instructs ABS to pulse that wheel, and then the ABS pressurizes that exhaust caliper, and the pads begin to grip.
Yeesh.
< Message edited by Glacial -- 5/18/2007 6:15:09 AM >
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Nasty Spin Out, No TCS - 
