this takes all...Saleen S/C is a waste of time
Login  | |
|
|
|
|
|
RE: this takes all...Saleen S/C is a waste of time - 4/24/2007 12:00:53 AM
|
|
|
mx07gt
Posts: 568
Joined: 11/4/2006
Status: offline
|
I think every form of forced induction has it's pros and cons.
Turbos can produce insane numbers, but are limited due to non-forged engine, and cant make that instant boost as a supercharger can.
But for my personal taste, I am a supercharger guy. Although I dont plan on buying a Saleen, I still have to admit that it is one of the cleanest setups i've ever seen. And if it can make 400 hp (idk if its rwhp) at only 4 psi, that is A LOT. No doubt The Saleen S/C can kick some ass.
< Message edited by mx07gt -- 4/24/2007 12:02:00 AM >
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
RE: this takes all...Saleen S/C is a waste of time - 4/24/2007 12:19:27 AM
|
|
|
Perdi
Posts: 392
Joined: 3/16/2007
From: CT
Status: offline
|
LOL, a waste of time... ??? I'm with ya TJ, I just got off a Mustang Dyno yesterday, making 430/426 @ 7.51 psi....
can't really complain with that...although I want more...so going down to a 3.25 Pulley...
At what point is enough?? I guess it's never enough... Honestly though, there is somewhat of a point here... I would imagine that saleen is a waste of time if ya wanna get into 600hp+ territory, but i betcha a KB could handle it...but then again at that point and if that is the goal, personally I buy another motor that is capable of putting down a big number to begin with and start from there... and go for broke 
I would like to know however what the actual limitation of the Saleen is... maybe 550 ish?
The interesting thing is between the Saleen and the KB, and I'm kinda going out on a limb here (and could be totally wrong) but I met a fellow this weekend who has a KB2.6 running at 8.5lbs boost and his numbers were something like 471/425... where I'm at 430/426, however I have LT's and he is stock...he has a tad more boost and is putting down more HP but similar TQ... (both on the same Mustang Dyno)... Kinda got me wondering a bit... I can't imagine that the LT's are making up that much torque... and is the KB really putting out that much more HP at 1lb more of boost? However there are some other things to take into consideration as well...different tuners, different A/F ratios etc...
Take it for what it's worth... not really a fair comparision, but it's all I got to go on.
In regards to that other post with the turbo running at 9psi and not even cracking the 400rw mark.... seems a tad low... ??? 
< Message edited by Perdi -- 4/24/2007 12:21:11 AM >
_____________________________
07 GT Black w/ Painted Gold Stripes
Saleen S/C Stage2 9.5lbs 445rw/423tq
GT500 Dual Fuel Pump
Dynatech LT Hi-flo Catted X & Flowmaster AT's
ZOOM Stage3 Clutch
BMR Adj. Panhard/UCA/LCA/HD Boxed Sub Frame
http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2644032
|
|
|
|
|
RE: this takes all...Saleen S/C is a waste of time - 4/24/2007 12:31:17 AM
|
|
|
cheftjpeck
Posts: 2253
Joined: 7/10/2006
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: Perdi
LOL, a waste of time... ??? I'm with ya TJ, I just got off a Mustang Dyno yesterday, making 430/426 @ 7.51 psi....
can't really complain with that...although I want more...so going down to a 3.25 Pulley...
At what point is enough?? I guess it's never enough... Honestly though, there is somewhat of a point here... I would imagine that saleen is a waste of time if ya wanna get into 600hp+ territory, but i betcha a KB could handle it...but then again at that point and if that is the goal, personally I buy another motor that is capable of putting down a big number to begin with and start from there... and go for broke
I would like to know however what the actual limitation of the Saleen is... maybe 550 ish?
The interesting thing is between the Saleen and the KB, and I'm kinda going out on a limb here (and could be totally wrong) but I met a fellow this weekend who has a KB2.6 running at 8.5lbs boost and his numbers were something like 471/425... where I'm at 430/426, however I have LT's and he is stock...he has a tad more boost and is putting down more HP but similar TQ... (both on the same Mustang Dyno)... Kinda got me wondering a bit... I can't imagine that the LT's are making up that much torque... and is the KB really putting out that much more HP at 1lb more of boost? However there are some other things to take into consideration as well...different tuners, different A/F ratios etc...
Take it for what it's worth... not really a fair comparision, but it's all I got to go on.
In regards to that other post with the turbo running at 9psi and not even cracking the 400rw mark.... seems a tad low... ???
nice numbers btw.....justin was able to get a stick gt 440rwhp and 428 torque,,,,it had a 3.6 pulley as well...but no headers...of course mine is auto so more parasitic loss and the headers helped my torque as well....
_____________________________
SOLD S197 GT350 TRIBUTE.
2008 SHELBY GT500
VISTA BLUE WITH WHITE STRIPES
SHAKER 1000 WITH SIRIUS SAT
HID LIGHTS
STOCK
|
|
|
|
|
RE: this takes all...Saleen S/C is a waste of time - 4/24/2007 1:02:00 AM
|
|
|
Perdi
Posts: 392
Joined: 3/16/2007
From: CT
Status: offline
|
Yeah well we are all in the same ballpark.. Feels nice though 'ay!? I'm still desiring a bit more though.... i really wanna be over 450...with the suspension mods (and soon to have more) the car puts the power to the road real well... Smooth and manageable power.
Maybe we shouldda just done it right the first time and gotten a turbo??? LOL
So you thinking your good at 420ish?? or ya contemplating a smidge more???
_____________________________
07 GT Black w/ Painted Gold Stripes
Saleen S/C Stage2 9.5lbs 445rw/423tq
GT500 Dual Fuel Pump
Dynatech LT Hi-flo Catted X & Flowmaster AT's
ZOOM Stage3 Clutch
BMR Adj. Panhard/UCA/LCA/HD Boxed Sub Frame
http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2644032
|
|
|
|
|
RE: this takes all...Saleen S/C is a waste of time - 4/24/2007 3:38:21 AM
|
|
|
chrisc
Posts: 3696
Joined: 10/20/2005
From: Seattle, WA
Status: offline
|
when he said "saleen is just a waste of time" I think he was talking about the guy who's forum handle is "Saleen" not, the actual supercharger lol
_____________________________
|
|
|
|
|
RE: this takes all...Saleen S/C is a waste of time - 4/24/2007 4:33:29 AM
|
|
|
RedFire281
Posts: 156
Joined: 9/3/2006
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: Perdi
The interesting thing is between the Saleen and the KB, and I'm kinda going out on a limb here (and could be totally wrong) but I met a fellow this weekend who has a KB2.6 running at 8.5lbs boost and his numbers were something like 471/425... where I'm at 430/426, however I have LT's and he is stock...he has a tad more boost and is putting down more HP but similar TQ... (both on the same Mustang Dyno)... Kinda got me wondering a bit... I can't imagine that the LT's are making up that much torque... and is the KB really putting out that much more HP at 1lb more of boost? However there are some other things to take into consideration as well...different tuners, different A/F ratios etc...
I don't mean to be critical but I think this is how Urban Legends start. First, if you're both running these kinds of numbers on a Mustang Dyno then your tuners are better than Kenne Bell's or anybody elses. The Saleen HP/Torque looks about right for a 3.6 pulley, conservative tune on an SAE (Dynojet) Dyno. As for the Kenne Bell 2.6L Big Bore for the 3V GT ..... hmmmmm. I think he's got a 10 lb pulley. I looked at the Kenne Bell dyno sheets on their site ( http://www.kennebell.net/superchargers/ford/gt05-06_3v/gt05-06_3v.htm ) and here's how KB's own comparisons shake out:
PSI Max RWHP/Torque (SAE)
5 401/357
8 445/386
8.5 456/402
9 462/411
I believe, not really sure, I read somewhere that KB has about 25 degrees of timing so it's pretty aggressive. I've got a 3.6 pulley and making 433 rwhp with my Saleen and a conservative tune, so when I look at the KB numbers compared to mine - I'm happier than spit!
_____________________________
06 GT Redfire Manual; Saleen SC & Short Shifter; 39# Injectors; 98mm MAF; HT0 Plugs; Steeda LCA, Adj UCA, & Ultra-lite Springs; Raptor Shift Light; BMR Adj Panhard Bar, CHE K-member Brace w/Torque Limiter; Corsa Exhaust. Diablo tune by Adam@ST Motorsport
|
|
|
|
|
RE: this takes all...Saleen S/C is a waste of time - 4/24/2007 5:54:54 AM
|
|
|
zkiller
Posts: 1291
Joined: 2/1/2007
Status: offline
|
You are correct about the KB tunes. My stock KB shoot-out tune had 25.5 degrees of timing advance. They also really push the envelope on their tune with air fuel, mine was in excvess of 13-1. I have recently had a dyno tune by Brenspeed and lowered the a/f to 12-1. Their tune dynoed at like 446/435.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: this takes all...Saleen S/C is a waste of time - 4/24/2007 8:12:06 AM
|
|
|
06SaLeEn
Posts: 1136
Joined: 2/4/2007
Status: offline
|
Well I was the one running 9psi with 392 rwhp, not to get into the debate about the two but I did want to explain why I am at that number. First off, I own a Saleen, and Love the Saleen S/C as well as other's. Whoever said the Saleen is a Waste of time is an idiot. The only thing thats a waste with Saleen is there tune. Thats it!
But here are some reasons why we are at 392 rwhp.
1) Humidity. Not the biggest factor but it was 90% that day.
2) I was dynoing on 20" rims. Again not the biggest factor, but a factor non the less
3) The biggest reason was thats what we went for, more or less. We could of and did get close to 60 more Hp out of her. Myself and my tuner both chose to go ultra conserative. We more than likely would of been fine on the A/F ratio, but there was no reason to blow this engine as we are ni the middle of starting a Big Engine build for my car. Being at Sea Level and the Summer being Humid (80-100%) in FL. There was no reason to risk pushing the internals in these weak motors. Bottom line. I explain this before and some guy said blah blah blah, woulda, coulda and shoulda. and you know he has his points. But this is the reason!
4) Also we shut her down at 5100 rpm, where I see alot of guys going 6000+rpm on the dyno pull
Also to add, I am sure all your guys tuners are great and of course you guys have nothing to say bad about them, but I did have the owner of Sniper tuning doing my car and like and my shop owner said and what I have heard and seen at other shops. It is very easy to make a mustang dyno look like whatever you want. I am not saying your numbers are BS, but you should compare them to other shops. Or the real way to compare them is run them on the track. I am happy with my numbers and know there is more there if I wanted to . Fact is this car got alot more going on in the future. But guys with same set up have bigger numbers with the same or a little more boost so the fact is the power is there with the Hellion System, but you have to be careful, case and point JD and his blown motor.....
_____________________________
2006 Saleen #560
Hellion Powered
If you need to know more, line them up!
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
RE: this takes all...Saleen S/C is a waste of time - 4/24/2007 9:18:32 AM
|
|
|
cheftjpeck
Posts: 2253
Joined: 7/10/2006
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: 06SaLeEn
Well I was the one running 9psi with 392 rwhp, not to get into the debate about the two but I did want to explain why I am at that number. First off, I own a Saleen, and Love the Saleen S/C as well as other's. Whoever said the Saleen is a Waste of time is an idiot. The only thing thats a waste with Saleen is there tune. Thats it!
But here are some reasons why we are at 392 rwhp.
1) Humidity. Not the biggest factor but it was 90% that day.
2) I was dynoing on 20" rims. Again not the biggest factor, but a factor non the less
3) The biggest reason was thats what we went for, more or less. We could of and did get close to 60 more Hp out of her. Myself and my tuner both chose to go ultra conserative. We more than likely would of been fine on the A/F ratio, but there was no reason to blow this engine as we are ni the middle of starting a Big Engine build for my car. Being at Sea Level and the Summer being Humid (80-100%) in FL. There was no reason to risk pushing the internals in these weak motors. Bottom line. I explain this before and some guy said blah blah blah, woulda, coulda and shoulda. and you know he has his points. But this is the reason!
4) Also we shut her down at 5100 rpm, where I see alot of guys going 6000+rpm on the dyno pull
Also to add, I am sure all your guys tuners are great and of course you guys have nothing to say bad about them, but I did have the owner of Sniper tuning doing my car and like and my shop owner said and what I have heard and seen at other shops. It is very easy to make a mustang dyno look like whatever you want. I am not saying your numbers are BS, but you should compare them to other shops. Or the real way to compare them is run them on the track. I am happy with my numbers and know there is more there if I wanted to . Fact is this car got alot more going on in the future. But guys with same set up have bigger numbers with the same or a little more boost so the fact is the power is there with the Hellion System, but you have to be careful, case and point JD and his blown motor.....
as stated above...my numbers were achieved on a dynojet at VMP tuning....
_____________________________
SOLD S197 GT350 TRIBUTE.
2008 SHELBY GT500
VISTA BLUE WITH WHITE STRIPES
SHAKER 1000 WITH SIRIUS SAT
HID LIGHTS
STOCK
|
|
|
|
|
RE: this takes all...Saleen S/C is a waste of time - 4/24/2007 9:54:55 AM
|
|
|
Perdi
Posts: 392
Joined: 3/16/2007
From: CT
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: RedFire281
I don't mean to be critical but I think this is how Urban Legends start. First, if you're both running these kinds of numbers on a Mustang Dyno then your tuners are better than Kenne Bell's or anybody elses. The Saleen HP/Torque looks about right for a 3.6 pulley, conservative tune on an SAE (Dynojet) Dyno. As for the Kenne Bell 2.6L Big Bore for the 3V GT ..... hmmmmm. I think he's got a 10 lb pulley. I looked at the Kenne Bell dyno sheets on their site ( http://www.kennebell.net/superchargers/ford/gt05-06_3v/gt05-06_3v.htm ) and here's how KB's own comparisons shake out:
PSI Max RWHP/Torque (SAE)
5 401/357
8 445/386
8.5 456/402
9 462/411
I believe, not really sure, I read somewhere that KB has about 25 degrees of timing so it's pretty aggressive. I've got a 3.6 pulley and making 433 rwhp with my Saleen and a conservative tune, so when I look at the KB numbers compared to mine - I'm happier than spit!
well just to keep this fair, for arguements sake, His dyno sheet is posted on this forum in another thread from awhile back... His Max PSI reading was at 8.53.. whereas mine was at 7.51... Both cars were Dynoed on the same exact Mustang Dyno, but on different days, and also I have to now assume by different Tuners... So I do not know what the timing is at on either car...
Also, just to avoid any future complications... I heard that that Mustang Dyno is calibrated to read the same (well similar) to a DynoJet. Just trying to keep the descrepencys to a minimum...I also have not come to any kinda of real solid conclusion on the DynoJet vs. Mustang Dyno debate... I've looked it up and researched it as best I can, and really can only come to one theoretical conclusion...that both should be equal in numbers if they are calibrated by a shop who cares about "real world HP" and not just numbers. I would think that they would be within 10 HP of one another anyway...Also, when my car was at 5.5lbs of boost it was at 400RW on a DynoJet...so I would say that the numbers would be pretty close...another 30 RW for 2 lbs more boost seems about right....
Regarding the 9psi turbo set up, I'm sorry, I did read the why's on why it's low...it's very safe... However, it still seems low to me for that kinda boost...Now this is just speculation, but I would think that the 90% humidity really wouldn't skey the numbers that much... With a real solid 9psi I would think to see 440+, so it must be uber consertive... which is cool, cause your right, why risk anything if ya know your going to really build it for big numbers....kinda pointless to push the motor to the edge, when your not interested in that kinda power to begin with... Just looing out for the other folks whom might read those numbers and were thinking about going with that kit, and think that that kit sucks...
< Message edited by Perdi -- 4/24/2007 9:56:47 AM >
_____________________________
07 GT Black w/ Painted Gold Stripes
Saleen S/C Stage2 9.5lbs 445rw/423tq
GT500 Dual Fuel Pump
Dynatech LT Hi-flo Catted X & Flowmaster AT's
ZOOM Stage3 Clutch
BMR Adj. Panhard/UCA/LCA/HD Boxed Sub Frame
http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2644032
|
|
|
|
|
RE: this takes all...Saleen S/C is a waste of time - 4/24/2007 10:05:36 AM
|
|
|
06SaLeEn
Posts: 1136
Joined: 2/4/2007
Status: offline
|
I agree. Because of you just looked at my numbers you would think my kit sucks. But like I said there were reasons behind it. I am pretty sure we could get 440+ out of it. The Tq would of also been 450+. Thats cool. At least you asked about the kit, instead of putting it down.
I am sure there will always be a Mustang Dyno Vs Dyno jet debate, they should be close but problem is allot of people really dont know what there doing when they run them. I have been around shops and dynos for while and usually when done right the Dyno Jet will read higher. All that said, Dyno Numbers mean nothing. Street/Track is where it matters.
If we would of done a run of 6k rpm we would of saw 420 rwhp with the ultra conserative tune.
Again Great Numbers Cheftjpack. The Saleen S/C is my fav S/C on the market and I am not saying that just because I am driving a Saleen
_____________________________
2006 Saleen #560
Hellion Powered
If you need to know more, line them up!
|
|
|
|
|
RE: this takes all...Saleen S/C is a waste of time - 4/24/2007 10:33:09 AM
|
|
|
carmanwelder
Posts: 187
Joined: 1/6/2007
Status: offline
|
If yout timing was at 25.5 then you wouldn't be running on pump gas then would you?
|
|
|
|
|
Printable Version
this takes all...Saleen S/C is a waste of time - 
