okay....I just had to post this as someone in the Turbo vs supercharger debate has decided to label the Saleen as a waste of time...like it cant produce a beast or good numbers...come on guys..If you love turbo..that is awesome...can a turbo produce INSANE freaking numbers no doubt...but please dont embarass yourself when you try to state that a Saleen is a waste of time and cant produce good numbers....with just a 3.6 pulley...I have 422 rwhp reasons with an incredible 416lb torque curve to throw the BS card at ya....[sm=rant.gif]
come on stopping dissing on the Saleen SC, unless you can show proof of inadequacies...

I think every form of forced induction has it's pros and cons.

Turbos can produce insane numbers, but are limited due to non-forged engine, and cant make that instant boost as a supercharger can.

But for my personal taste, I am a supercharger guy. Although I dont plan on buying a Saleen, I still have to admit that it is one of the cleanest setups i've ever seen. And if it can make 400 hp (idk if its rwhp) at only 4 psi, that is A LOT. No doubt The Saleen S/C can kick some ass.

ORIGINAL: mx07gt

I think every form of forced induction has it's pros and cons.

Turbos can produce insane numbers, but are limited due to non-forged engine, and cant make that instant boost as a supercharger can.

But for my personal taste, I am a supercharger guy. Although I dont plan on buying a Saleen, I still have to admit that it is one of the cleanest setups i've ever seen. And if it can make 400 hp (idk if its rwhp) at only 4 psi, that is A LOT. No doubt The Saleen S/C can kick some ass.

it can not make 400RWHP at 4psi.....but it did make 422.56rwhp and 416.9 lb torque at 7.5 psi...that still is pretty freaking impressive...and by no means did I post this to get in a TURBO vs SUPERCHARGER war...I think turbos are awesome....not for me but awesome....I just think its funny as hell how some can take such broad strokes with a brush as to say the Saleen SC is worthless....please...

LOL, a waste of time... ??? I'm with ya TJ, I just got off a Mustang Dyno yesterday, making 430/426 @ 7.51 psi....

can't really complain with that...although I want more...so going down to a 3.25 Pulley...

At what point is enough?? I guess it's never enough... Honestly though, there is somewhat of a point here... I would imagine that saleen is a waste of time if ya wanna get into 600hp+ territory, but i betcha a KB could handle it...but then again at that point and if that is the goal, personally I buy another motor that is capable of putting down a big number to begin with and start from there... and go for broke :)

I would like to know however what the actual limitation of the Saleen is... maybe 550 ish?

The interesting thing is between the Saleen and the KB, and I'm kinda going out on a limb here (and could be totally wrong) but I met a fellow this weekend who has a KB2.6 running at 8.5lbs boost and his numbers were something like 471/425... where I'm at 430/426, however I have LT's and he is stock...he has a tad more boost and is putting down more HP but similar TQ... (both on the same Mustang Dyno)... Kinda got me wondering a bit... I can't imagine that the LT's are making up that much torque... and is the KB really putting out that much more HP at 1lb more of boost? However there are some other things to take into consideration as well...different tuners, different A/F ratios etc...

Take it for what it's worth... not really a fair comparision, but it's all I got to go on.

In regards to that other post with the turbo running at 9psi and not even cracking the 400rw mark.... seems a tad low... ??? :eek:

ORIGINAL: Perdi

LOL, a waste of time... ??? I'm with ya TJ, I just got off a Mustang Dyno yesterday, making 430/426 @ 7.51 psi....

can't really complain with that...although I want more...so going down to a 3.25 Pulley...

At what point is enough?? I guess it's never enough... Honestly though, there is somewhat of a point here... I would imagine that saleen is a waste of time if ya wanna get into 600hp+ territory, but i betcha a KB could handle it...but then again at that point and if that is the goal, personally I buy another motor that is capable of putting down a big number to begin with and start from there... and go for broke :)

I would like to know however what the actual limitation of the Saleen is... maybe 550 ish?

The interesting thing is between the Saleen and the KB, and I'm kinda going out on a limb here (and could be totally wrong) but I met a fellow this weekend who has a KB2.6 running at 8.5lbs boost and his numbers were something like 471/425... where I'm at 430/426, however I have LT's and he is stock...he has a tad more boost and is putting down more HP but similar TQ... (both on the same Mustang Dyno)... Kinda got me wondering a bit... I can't imagine that the LT's are making up that much torque... and is the KB really putting out that much more HP at 1lb more of boost? However there are some other things to take into consideration as well...different tuners, different A/F ratios etc...

Take it for what it's worth... not really a fair comparision, but it's all I got to go on.

In regards to that other post with the turbo running at 9psi and not even cracking the 400rw mark.... seems a tad low... ??? :eek:


nice numbers btw.....justin was able to get a stick gt 440rwhp and 428 torque,,,,it had a 3.6 pulley as well...but no headers...of course mine is auto so more parasitic loss and the headers helped my torque as well....

Yeah well we are all in the same ballpark.. Feels nice though 'ay!? I'm still desiring a bit more though.... i really wanna be over 450...with the suspension mods (and soon to have more) the car puts the power to the road real well... Smooth and manageable power.

Maybe we shouldda just done it right the first time and gotten a turbo??? LOL

So you thinking your good at 420ish?? or ya contemplating a smidge more???

when he said "saleen is just a waste of time" I think he was talking about the guy who's forum handle is "Saleen" not, the actual supercharger lol

ORIGINAL: Perdi

The interesting thing is between the Saleen and the KB, and I'm kinda going out on a limb here (and could be totally wrong) but I met a fellow this weekend who has a KB2.6 running at 8.5lbs boost and his numbers were something like 471/425... where I'm at 430/426, however I have LT's and he is stock...he has a tad more boost and is putting down more HP but similar TQ... (both on the same Mustang Dyno)... Kinda got me wondering a bit... I can't imagine that the LT's are making up that much torque... and is the KB really putting out that much more HP at 1lb more of boost? However there are some other things to take into consideration as well...different tuners, different A/F ratios etc...


I don't mean to be critical but I think this is how Urban Legends start. First, if you're both running these kinds of numbers on a Mustang Dyno then your tuners are better than Kenne Bell's or anybody elses. The Saleen HP/Torque looks about right for a 3.6 pulley, conservative tune on an SAE (Dynojet) Dyno. As for the Kenne Bell 2.6L Big Bore for the 3V GT ..... hmmmmm. I think he's got a 10 lb pulley. I looked at the Kenne Bell dyno sheets on their site ( http://www.kennebell.net/superchargers/ford/gt05-06_3v/gt05-06_3v.htm) and here's how KB's own comparisons shake out:

PSI Max RWHP/Torque (SAE)
5 401/357
8445/386
8.5456/402
9462/411

I believe, not really sure, I read somewhere that KB has about 25 degrees of timing so it's pretty aggressive. I've got a 3.6 pulley and making 433 rwhp with my Saleen and a conservative tune, so when I look at the KB numbers compared to mine - I'm happier than spit!

You are correct about the KB tunes. My stock KB shoot-out tune had 25.5 degrees of timing advance. They also really push the envelope on their tune with air fuel, mine was in excvess of 13-1. I have recently had a dyno tune by Brenspeedand lowered the a/f to 12-1. Their tune dynoed at like 446/435.

Well I was the one running 9psi with 392 rwhp, not to get into the debate about the two but I did want to explain why I am at that number. First off, I own a Saleen, and Love the Saleen S/C as well as other's. Whoever said the Saleen is a Waste of time is an idiot. The only thing thats a waste with Saleen is there tune. Thats it!
But here are some reasons why we are at 392 rwhp.
1) Humidity. Not the biggest factor but it was 90% that day.
2) I was dynoing on 20" rims. Again not the biggest factor, but a factor non the less
3) The biggest reason was thats what we went for, more or less. We could of and did get close to 60 more Hp out of her. Myself and my tuner bothchose to go ultra conserative. We more than likely would of been fine on the A/F ratio, but there was no reason to blow this engine as we are ni the middle of starting a Big Engine build for my car. Being at Sea Level and the Summer being Humid (80-100%) in FL. There was no reason to risk pushing the internals in these weak motors. Bottom line. I explain this before and some guy said blah blah blah, woulda, coulda and shoulda. and you know he has his points. But this is the reason!
4) Also we shut her down at 5100 rpm, where I see alot of guys going 6000+rpm on the dyno pull


Also to add, I am sure all your guys tuners are great and of course you guys have nothing to say bad about them, but I did have the owner of Sniper tuning doing my car and like and my shop owner said and what I have heard and seen at other shops. It is very easy to make a mustang dyno look like whatever you want. I am not saying your numbers are BS, but you should compare them to other shops. Or the real way to compare them is run them on the track. I am happy with my numbers and know there is more there if I wanted to . Fact is this car got alot more going on in the future. But guys with same set up have bigger numbers with the same or a little more boost so the fact is the power is there with the Hellion System, but you have to be careful, case and point JD and his blown motor.....

ORIGINAL: RedFire281

ORIGINAL: Perdi

The interesting thing is between the Saleen and the KB, and I'm kinda going out on a limb here (and could be totally wrong) but I met a fellow this weekend who has a KB2.6 running at 8.5lbs boost and his numbers were something like 471/425... where I'm at 430/426, however I have LT's and he is stock...he has a tad more boost and is putting down more HP but similar TQ... (both on the same Mustang Dyno)... Kinda got me wondering a bit... I can't imagine that the LT's are making up that much torque... and is the KB really putting out that much more HP at 1lb more of boost? However there are some other things to take into consideration as well...different tuners, different A/F ratios etc...


I don't mean to be critical but I think this is how Urban Legends start. First, if you're both running these kinds of numbers on a Mustang Dyno then your tuners are better than Kenne Bell's or anybody elses. The Saleen HP/Torque looks about right for a 3.6 pulley, conservative tune on an SAE (Dynojet) Dyno. As for the Kenne Bell 2.6L Big Bore for the 3V GT ..... hmmmmm. I think he's got a 10 lb pulley. I looked at the Kenne Bell dyno sheets on their site ( http://www.kennebell.net/superchargers/ford/gt05-06_3v/gt05-06_3v.htm) and here's how KB's own comparisons shake out:

PSI Max RWHP/Torque (SAE)
5 401/357
8445/386
8.5456/402
9462/411

I believe, not really sure, I read somewhere that KB has about 25 degrees of timing so it's pretty aggressive. I've got a 3.6 pulley and making 433 rwhp with my Saleen and a conservative tune, so when I look at the KB numbers compared to mine - I'm happier than spit!



MY numbers were not on a mustang dyno..my numbers were acheived on a dynojet..thx

ORIGINAL: 06SaLeEn

Well I was the one running 9psi with 392 rwhp, not to get into the debate about the two but I did want to explain why I am at that number. First off, I own a Saleen, and Love the Saleen S/C as well as other's. Whoever said the Saleen is a Waste of time is an idiot. The only thing thats a waste with Saleen is there tune. Thats it!
But here are some reasons why we are at 392 rwhp.
1) Humidity. Not the biggest factor but it was 90% that day.
2) I was dynoing on 20" rims. Again not the biggest factor, but a factor non the less
3) The biggest reason was thats what we went for, more or less. We could of and did get close to 60 more Hp out of her. Myself and my tuner bothchose to go ultra conserative. We more than likely would of been fine on the A/F ratio, but there was no reason to blow this engine as we are ni the middle of starting a Big Engine build for my car. Being at Sea Level and the Summer being Humid (80-100%) in FL. There was no reason to risk pushing the internals in these weak motors. Bottom line. I explain this before and some guy said blah blah blah, woulda, coulda and shoulda. and you know he has his points. But this is the reason!
4) Also we shut her down at 5100 rpm, where I see alot of guys going 6000+rpm on the dyno pull


Also to add, I am sure all your guys tuners are great and of course you guys have nothing to say bad about them, but I did have the owner of Sniper tuning doing my car and like and my shop owner said and what I have heard and seen at other shops. It is very easy to make a mustang dyno look like whatever you want. I am not saying your numbers are BS, but you should compare them to other shops. Or the real way to compare them is run them on the track. I am happy with my numbers and know there is more there if I wanted to . Fact is this car got alot more going on in the future. But guys with same set up have bigger numbers with the same or a little more boost so the fact is the power is there with the Hellion System, but you have to be careful, case and point JD and his blown motor.....



as stated above...my numbers were achieved on a dynojet at VMP tuning....

ORIGINAL: RedFire281

I don't mean to be critical but I think this is how Urban Legends start. First, if you're both running these kinds of numbers on a Mustang Dyno then your tuners are better than Kenne Bell's or anybody elses. The Saleen HP/Torque looks about right for a 3.6 pulley, conservative tune on an SAE (Dynojet) Dyno. As for the Kenne Bell 2.6L Big Bore for the 3V GT ..... hmmmmm. I think he's got a 10 lb pulley. I looked at the Kenne Bell dyno sheets on their site ( http://www.kennebell.net/superchargers/ford/gt05-06_3v/gt05-06_3v.htm) and here's how KB's own comparisons shake out:

PSI Max RWHP/Torque (SAE)
5 401/357
8445/386
8.5456/402
9462/411

I believe, not really sure, I read somewhere that KB has about 25 degrees of timing so it's pretty aggressive. I've got a 3.6 pulley and making 433 rwhp with my Saleen and a conservative tune, so when I look at the KB numbers compared to mine - I'm happier than spit!



well just to keep this fair, for arguements sake, His dyno sheet is posted on this forum in another thread from awhile back... His Max PSI reading was at 8.53.. whereas mine was at 7.51... Both cars were Dynoed on the same exact Mustang Dyno, but on different days, and also I have to now assume by different Tuners... So I do not know what the timing is at on either car...

Also, just to avoid any future complications... I heard that that Mustang Dyno is calibrated to read the same (well similar) to a DynoJet. Just trying to keep the descrepencys to a minimum...I also have not come to any kinda of real solid conclusion on the DynoJet vs. Mustang Dyno debate... I've looked it up and researched it as best I can, and really can only come to one theoretical conclusion...that both should be equal in numbers if they are calibrated by a shop who cares about "real world HP" and not just numbers. I would think that they would be within 10 HP of one another anyway...Also, when my car was at 5.5lbs of boost it was at 400RW on a DynoJet...so I would say that the numbers would be pretty close...another 30 RW for 2 lbs more boost seems about right....

Regarding the 9psi turbo set up, I'm sorry, I did read the why's on why it's low...it's very safe... However, it still seems low to me for that kinda boost...Now this is just speculation, but I would think that the 90% humidity really wouldn't skey the numbers that much... With a real solid 9psi I would think to see 440+, so it must be uber consertive... which is cool, cause your right, why risk anything if ya know your going to really build it for big numbers....kinda pointless to push the motor to the edge, when your not interested in that kinda power to begin with... Just looing out for the other folks whom might read those numbers and were thinking about going with that kit, and think that that kit sucks...

I agree. Because of you just looked at my numbers you would think my kit sucks. But like I said there were reasons behind it. I am pretty sure we could get 440+ out of it. The Tq would of also been 450+. Thats cool. At least you asked about the kit, instead of putting it down.
I am sure there will always be a Mustang Dyno Vs Dyno jet debate, they should be close but problem is allot of people really dont know what there doing when they run them. I have been around shops and dynos for while and usually when done right the Dyno Jet will read higher. All that said, Dyno Numbers mean nothing. Street/Track is where it matters.

If we would of done a run of 6k rpm we would of saw 420 rwhp with the ultra conserative tune.

Again Great Numbers Cheftjpack. The Saleen S/C is my fav S/C on the market and I am not saying that just because I am driving a Saleen:D

If yout timing was at 25.5 then you wouldn't be running on pump gas then would you?

To chime in on the DJ vs. MD debate..... I did a bunch of reading on it myself. Yes all on the net so some of what I read my not be accurate but there was a degree of consistency in the material. And there is definitely a set up issue with any dyno and how the horsepower numbers will read. My conclusion is that on properly set up dyno there can be a difference of plus 8 - 12% on average on the DJ. Of course how this power is put down in the real world will also depend on so many other factors (tires, suspension etc) that the variances are overwhelming. The bottom line to me is… if you like YOUR set up…..and it works well for your Mazel Tov…enjoy it!! If you don’t like some one else’s STFU! There is always someone out there with a faster car, a more powerful motor, a bigger bank account a larger c*0k….etc… enjoy what make you happy!!!

i second that

What's agood reliable site for the helion system. I've been to the Helion site itself but as with any product you get biased reviews on the. Maybe Reviews or something.

ORIGINAL: 06SaLeEn

I agree. Because of you just looked at my numbers you would think my kit sucks. But like I said there were reasons behind it. I am pretty sure we could get 440+ out of it. The Tq would of also been 450+. Thats cool. At least you asked about the kit, instead of putting it down.
I am sure there will always be a Mustang Dyno Vs Dyno jet debate, they should be close but problem is allot of people really dont know what there doing when they run them. I have been around shops and dynos for while and usually when done right the Dyno Jet will read higher. All that said, Dyno Numbers mean nothing. Street/Track is where it matters.

If we would of done a run of 6k rpm we would of saw 420 rwhp with the ultra conserative tune.

Again Great Numbers Cheftjpack. The Saleen S/C is my fav S/C on the market and I am not saying that just because I am driving a Saleen:D

thx,,,,love my saleen as well....if I was looking for ungodly numbers..I would have went turbo....but I am very content with my measly numbers in my daily driver....

Not to go astray but have you seen the show the American Supercar: Saleen's S7 Awesome view!

Well you got great numbers. Heck crank hp you got ZO6 numbers, to bad our cars are on the heavy side

470 RWHP with Saleen @ 10lbs, daily driver.

KB vs Saleen number descrepancy may also have to do with the fact that the Saleen is a 2.3L and the KB is a 2.6L.

ORIGINAL: cheftjpeck

it can not make 400RWHP at 4psi.....

Watch your tongue TJ. I made 417when I was running 4psi.

^^^
LOL

ORIGINAL: hawgman

ORIGINAL: cheftjpeck

it can not make 400RWHP at 4psi.....

Watch your tongue TJ. I made 417when I was running 4psi.




Not trying to cause any trouble here, but from judging from everyone elses experience I'd say that must have been an extremely generous Dyno...your saying 417 at the wheel on 4psi? For real?

Mine is doing 400 to 410 rwhp with 7 1/2 lbs of boost. And that's with an automatic.

ORIGINAL: hawgman

ORIGINAL: cheftjpeck

it can not make 400RWHP at 4psi.....

Watch your tongue TJ. I made 417when I was running 4psi.


come on...Doc...I know you gotta be pulling my leg...was that rwhp and what other mods..
TJ

Ahh, I betcha it was 417 at the crank...that would make sense...

ORIGINAL: cheftjpeck

okay....I just had to post this as someone in the Turbo vs supercharger debate has decided to label the Saleen as a waste of time...like it cant produce a beast or good numbers...come on guys..If you love turbo..that is awesome...can a turbo produce INSANE freaking numbers no doubt...but please dont embarass yourself when you try to state that a Saleen is a waste of time and cant produce good numbers....with just a 3.6 pulley...I have 422 rwhp reasons with an incredible 416lb torque curve to throw the BS card at ya....[sm=rant.gif]
come on stopping dissing on the Saleen SC, unless you can show proof of inadequacies...


Black GT's rule the world and Blue ones are a waste of time!! Ummmm ahhhh well, doesn't play out as well as dueling forced induction methods! [sm=alcoholic.gif]

well put.

A friends 05 is putting 550 with his Saleen SC, he also has a tune for his other pully that gives him 625, but keep in mind his bottom end is not built, so he refuses to use that pully and tune since the dyno. I think his bottom end is gonna hate him for 550... but, the Saleen SC he has kicks butt... :D... alot of you on here probably know him and his Black Stang... The Roush gets it too tho... ;)


ORIGINAL: Perdi

LOL, a waste of time... ??? I'm with ya TJ, I just got off a Mustang Dyno yesterday, making 430/426 @ 7.51 psi....

can't really complain with that...although I want more...so going down to a 3.25 Pulley...

At what point is enough?? I guess it's never enough... Honestly though, there is somewhat of a point here... I would imagine that saleen is a waste of time if ya wanna get into 600hp+ territory, but i betcha a KB could handle it...but then again at that point and if that is the goal, personally I buy another motor that is capable of putting down a big number to begin with and start from there... and go for broke :)

I would like to know however what the actual limitation of the Saleen is... maybe 550 ish?

The interesting thing is between the Saleen and the KB, and I'm kinda going out on a limb here (and could be totally wrong) but I met a fellow this weekend who has a KB2.6 running at 8.5lbs boost and his numbers were something like 471/425... where I'm at 430/426, however I have LT's and he is stock...he has a tad more boost and is putting down more HP but similar TQ... (both on the same Mustang Dyno)... Kinda got me wondering a bit... I can't imagine that the LT's are making up that much torque... and is the KB really putting out that much more HP at 1lb more of boost? However there are some other things to take into consideration as well...different tuners, different A/F ratios etc...

Take it for what it's worth... not really a fair comparision, but it's all I got to go on.

In regards to that other post with the turbo running at 9psi and not even cracking the 400rw mark.... seems a tad low... ??? :eek:

ORIGINAL: Perdi

Not trying to cause any trouble here, but from judging from everyone elses experience I'd say that must have been an extremely generous Dyno...your saying 417 at the wheel on 4psi? For real?



Actually, it was dynos, not dyno. Initial tune was 412 to the wheels SAE at one shop, couple of weeks later was 417 to the wheels SAEwith a little tweaking and different intake at a different shop.

ORIGINAL: cheftjpeck
come on...Doc...I know you gotta be pulling my leg...was that rwhp and what other mods..
TJ

First tune was with the stock air tube and MAF/MAS, 39lb injectors. Second tune was with the Lightning MAF/MAS anda C&L Racer intake tube.

ORIGINAL: Perdi

Ahh, I betcha it was 417 at the crank...that would make sense...

Might not want to take that bet. You would lose.

417 on 4lbs, 442 on 8lbs, 470 on 10lbs, 489 on 12lbs with the addition of Kooks headers and hi flow cats.

I dunno man, the other numbers you posted seem more on par, but 417 at 4lbs... something just doesn't seem right... I'm not about to call BS on what ya say...but that would be exceptional numbers on 4 pounds... and certianly way above the 'norm'.[sm=insomnia.gif]

well, here is my take, I am not going to say BS, but I think someone who did his dyno did something wrong or is misleading him. 4lbs of boost would not be over 400rwhp. Assuming 20% loss that would put him at 515-520 crank hp, if I am not mistaking, Saleen S/C from Factory is putting out 4lbs of boost and there is no claim of 515-520 crank hp. I could be wrong but something doesn't add up

Yea, you're right. I am full of crap. And here is the original 4psi pre MAF dyno sheet to prove it.



local://upfiles/13513/F68C580F86F640DB95487D8DC279E98D.jpg


Of course the lines don't show up... but the numbers are there

I am pretty sure I did not say you were full of crap. So calm down big boy...I am saying if your runnning 4lbs and have 412 rwhp, I would think it's a safe bet to say your the only on in the World. Mistakes can happen in a Dyno, some shops will tell you what you want to hear when it comes to numbers. But in no way am I calling you BS or full of crap.
One question to you.
THere is a alot of Saleen S/C owners on this site, DO you find it odd no one is putting out 412 rwhp or close with only 4 lbs of boost?

Yeah Hawg, do go puttin words in our mouths... No one ever said you are full of crap...and I believe that we made that very clear, and your reaction is exactly why.

But, I suppose in your defense it could be easily taken that we are saying you are full of crap. Well i'm not saying that you are full of crap, possibly mistaken ar there is some kinda error. Nobody has put down that much RWHP on 4psi. Unless it's just an insanely agressive tune, but then I'd think that it wouldn't be safe. I dunno man, god blees ya if it really was a god's honest 417rw on 4psi, but that sheet (in our defense) really doesn't prove anything...Youd be putting out like 40-50 more horse than anyone else.

We will just have to take your word on it...

ORIGINAL: viking396

ORIGINAL: cheftjpeck

okay....I just had to post this as someone in the Turbo vs supercharger debate has decided to label the Saleen as a waste of time...like it cant produce a beast or good numbers...come on guys..If you love turbo..that is awesome...can a turbo produce INSANE freaking numbers no doubt...but please dont embarass yourself when you try to state that a Saleen is a waste of time and cant produce good numbers....with just a 3.6 pulley...I have 422 rwhp reasons with an incredible 416lb torque curve to throw the BS card at ya....[sm=rant.gif]
come on stopping dissing on the Saleen SC, unless you can show proof of inadequacies...


Black GT's rule the world and Blue ones are a waste of time!! Ummmm ahhhh well, doesn't play out as well as dueling forced induction methods! [sm=alcoholic.gif]


thems fighting words....LOL...

TJ, I may get into a considerable amount of trouble by telling you this because it is a highly guarded secret amoungst (us), but I do consider you like a brother.... The black ponies are a little bit faster (shhhhhh)...They've been doing that since the beginning.....

[sm=devilangel.gif]

The saleen is a good supercharger if you want to stay at those #'s then it is your perfect mate. Very effective and efficient at low boost #'s, but like I said if you are looking for 500-600 or maybe more then it should not be an option among your choices.

Andrew

Nice try!

I'm curious as to where you guys get this information. I've seen alot of Saleen s/c cars come out of JDM (including mine)with results very similar to Hawgman's. Tuning makes a huge difference.

ORIGINAL: 06SaLeEn

well, here is my take, I am not going to say BS, but I think someone who did his dyno did something wrong or is misleading him. 4lbs of boost would not be over 400rwhp. Assuming 20% loss that would put him at 515-520 crank hp, if I am not mistaking, Saleen S/C from Factory is putting out 4lbs of boost and there is no claim of 515-520 crank hp. I could be wrong but something doesn't add up


Saleens from factory or horribly undertuned. Remember they still have to offer an engine warranty.

ORIGINAL: Perdi

TJ, I may get into a considerable amount of trouble by telling you this because it is a highly guarded secret amoungst (us), but I do consider you like a brother.... The black ponies are a little bit faster (shhhhhh)...They've been doing that since the beginning.....

[sm=devilangel.gif]


thats it,,,,,I am done with you as my brother....I say..GOOD DAY.....:D....allright its time to line up on the track....my blue gt vs ___________ J/K its all good...I just like blue...[sm=gears.gif]So I will take my slow blue car and hope I can make it down the road fast enough to not be ran over by oncoming traffic...LOL

Yeah, I love the blue... I sometimes wish I would have gone with the vista.... The only reason they make the black ones a bit faster, is because we gotta be able to catch up to you, due to the fact that we are ALWAYS washing the car!!!![sm=sigh.gif]

ORIGINAL: pcdrj

ORIGINAL: 06SaLeEn

well, here is my take, I am not going to say BS, but I think someone who did his dyno did something wrong or is misleading him. 4lbs of boost would not be over 400rwhp. Assuming 20% loss that would put him at 515-520 crank hp, if I am not mistaking, Saleen S/C from Factory is putting out 4lbs of boost and there is no claim of 515-520 crank hp. I could be wrong but something doesn't add up


Saleens from factory or horribly undertuned. Remember they still have to offer an engine warranty.



Trust me I know!! Should of used better wording. Again Ijust think 4lbs of boost over 400rwhp? I know tuning will do wonders, I agree the tune has everything to do with it, look at me 9psi and only 392 rwhp, but thats by choice, I just dont think 4lbs is possible for 400 rwhp. But I could be wrong, would not be the first time!:eek:

He's running 110 octane with loads of timing

And custom grind cams, and the bottle. He actually dyno'd in 5th gear.

Actually if you go to the Saleen website they do claim 400+ hp with 4-5 psi.

ORIGINAL: carmanwelder

Actually if you go to the Saleen website they do claim 400+ hp with 4-5 psi.

yeah but there claim is crank hp. the stock pulley gets only about 3.5-4psi

ORIGINAL: carmanwelder

Actually if you go to the Saleen website they do claim 400+ hp with 4-5 psi.


Thats crank hp. I well aware of saleen, I own one.

As for the 110 oct and loads of timing, then saying you got 412 rwhp with only 4 lbs of boost would be a little misleading.

Tell me chef what was your first impresionof your stang with your blower. I am personally going w/ KB because I've been with them since 97 on a 95 GT. I've heard alot of good thins about Saleen blowers.

ORIGINAL: carmanwelder

Tell me chef what was your first impresionof your stang with your blower. I am personally going w/ KB because I've been with them since 97 on a 95 GT. I've heard alot of good thins about Saleen blowers.

first impression,,,,,hmmm......I think it was sheeyat.....it aint running...no thats a different issue...once everything was fixed and I drove for the first time...I was like WOW.....in fact even today I am still like WOW>...You cant go worng with KB, Whipple or Saleen...it is addictive that is for sure...just try to remove the grin....:D
the car pulls so much better...to hear that whine of the supercharger buliding boost...lets put it this way...the car can get away from you real quick now...Now that my Saleen has broken in and the new tune I have it howls..people look your way twice....YOU WILL LOVE IT..I GUARANTEE YOU.....ITs GREAT TO BE BLOWN!!!!!!!!!!!!!

06 Saleen why did you stop ur run at 5.1k rpm. You should check your car you are throwing a lot less hp than one we got here. at ur psi he was over 500hp, the tune was not aggressive and was running safe timming. He didn't care if the engine was a timebomb at those psi levels -.-.

Andrew

Carmen, I'll chime in here as well, i know ya didn't ask me, but I'll offer you my 1st impression as ChefTJ and I went thru the same process at about the same time... I'll agree with what TJ said about Holy Sheeyat as well... but honestly I was looking for more (and still am).

When I first got the car back I had a lot of stuff done to it including the Saleen w/ the upgrade.. I was making 400 RW at 5.5 psi... She was definately a whole new car...then last Sunday I had the 3.4 Pulley installed and dyno'd at 430rw/426tq(at 7.59psi)... Feels even better. But now less than a week later I'll be putting on a 3.2 pulley and a re-dyno tune on Saturday... I wanna be at 450+...I'm pretty sure I'll be there after saturday...
but I got to take a ride in a car with a KB at 8psi kickin out 471rw/425tq. he has stock exhaust, and some suspension mods... That blower is cool...cause you can really hear it whining... I kinda like that, but also like the quietness of the Saleen.. However, I really liked the fact that the stock exhaust is about 100 times more quiet than mine... His car I would say is faster cause he's up about 50hp, but I wouldn't say by a whole lot... It seemed like the power was tighter (if that makes any sense) but I think that is due to the fact that you could hear the engine and the whine a lot better because you couldn't hear the rumble...

Kinda hard to explain, but it seemed like it had more "zing" and less muscle... almost more like a tightly wound sports car, and not an in your face muscle, gunna kick your ass feel...

It really is a tough decision.... it'll really kinda depend on what your after, I think if I were to do it again, I would maybe consider the KB 2.6 a little more, only cause I think its capable of putting out more boost than the Saleen... However, the Saleen is capable of getting ya into having to have Forged Internals.... But, having said that, I'm going to wait until next year, or at least until it get's crappy out here in the Northeast again until I consider going Forged... But I'm thinking that if I make that decision, I personally will probably end up just taking out this motor and going with a bigger one capable of BIG power...700+ minimum...safely.

So, really if you said that you have been with KB for a long time, I see no advantage straying away... I never planned on going higher than 450rw when I first set out to do all this, but now that I'm (almost) there, I'm thinking I kinda want to be in that stupidly insane power "bracket".

I'm certianly not knocking the Saleen...and at the end of the day IMO it is the best looking install, and it is super quiet...but that whine was cool... (That opinion could change if I had to listen to it all the time though, so I dunno).. Put it this way I can barely hear my Saleen....and I mean barely. But that KB, there was no mistaking it... which was cool in an intimidating way..

Anyway that's my .02 :)

ORIGINAL: Perdi

Carmen, I'll chime in here as well, i know ya didn't ask me, but I'll offer you my 1st impression as ChefTJ and I went thru the same process at about the same time... I'll agree with what TJ said about Holy Sheeyat as well... but honestly I was looking for more (and still am).

When I first got the car back I had a lot of stuff done to it including the Saleen w/ the upgrade.. I was making 400 RW at 5.5 psi... She was definately a whole new car...then last Sunday I had the 3.4 Pulley installed and dyno'd at 430rw/426tq(at 7.59psi)... Feels even better. But now less than a week later I'll be putting on a 3.2 pulley and a re-dyno tune on Saturday... I wanna be at 450+...I'm pretty sure I'll be there after saturday...
but I got to take a ride in a car with a KB at 8psi kickin out 471rw/425tq. he has stock exhaust, and some suspension mods... That blower is cool...cause you can really hear it whining... I kinda like that, but also like the quietness of the Saleen.. However, I really liked the fact that the stock exhaust is about 100 times more quiet than mine... His car I would say is faster cause he's up about 50hp, but I wouldn't say by a whole lot... It seemed like the power was tighter (if that makes any sense) but I think that is due to the fact that you could hear the engine and the whine a lot better because you couldn't hear the rumble...

Kinda hard to explain, but it seemed like it had more "zing" and less muscle... almost more like a tightly wound sports car, and not an in your face muscle, gunna kick your ass feel...

It really is a tough decision.... it'll really kinda depend on what your after, I think if I were to do it again, I would maybe consider the KB 2.6 a little more, only cause I think its capable of putting out more boost than the Saleen... However, the Saleen is capable of getting ya into having to have Forged Internals.... But, having said that, I'm going to wait until next year, or at least until it get's crappy out here in the Northeast again until I consider going Forged... But I'm thinking that if I make that decision, I personally will probably end up just taking out this motor and going with a bigger one capable of BIG power...700+ minimum...safely.

So, really if you said that you have been with KB for a long time, I see no advantage straying away... I never planned on going higher than 450rw when I first set out to do all this, but now that I'm (almost) there, I'm thinking I kinda want to be in that stupidly insane power "bracket".

I'm certianly not knocking the Saleen...and at the end of the day IMO it is the best looking install, and it is super quiet...but that whine was cool... (That opinion could change if I had to listen to it all the time though, so I dunno).. Put it this way I can barely hear my Saleen....and I mean barely. But that KB, there was no mistaking it... which was cool in an intimidating way..

Anyway that's my .02 :)

actually with mine the whine became more apparent over time...maybe it is jsut me listening for it and my exhaust is loud as shiznit....but when you are thumping on her it whines...it howls as it downshifts as well....LOVE IT...but as Perdi said, if you are happy with KB stay with them....I heard its and awesome blower...I on the other hand just could not beat the price I got my setup for...thats why I truly went Saleen...as I was between the big 3 of KB, Saleen and Whipple..but UGM got me the Saleen for under $4200....could not go wrong

ORIGINAL: androdz

06 Saleen why did you stop ur run at 5.1k rpm. You should check your car you are throwing a lot less hp than one we got here. at ur psi he was over 500hp, the tune was not aggressive and was running safe timming. He didn't care if the engine was a timebomb at those psi levels -.-.

Andrew




Just being extra safe. Very humid and sea level where I live which = Boom if your not careful. Plus I wanted to keep it streetable as possible. My car was lucky to have my local guy who is wonderful! Plus we had Sniper Tuning Owner help out and AMP racing. This question comes up to me all the time so I will give you the reason our numbers are low. 1st off all we wanted was 400rwhp. We pretty much got that. We could of easily gotten 40-60 more hp out of the psi, so we would of been at 430-450 rwhp. My 20 inch rims eat up 10 rwhp so now were at 440-460 rwhp, we were on a mustang dyno which more than likely reads 20-30 rwhp less than a DynoJet, now were at 460-490 rwhp. Plus we stoped the pull at 5100rpm, so more than likely we had another 10-20 rwhp to see. There you go 470-510 rwhp. I am not a big dyno guy and what that number means, nothing but bragging. Wasn't my point. I wanted to get a ultra conservative tune , 400rwhp (on a mustang dyno) at 9psi. We did that. If I wanted my tuner to safely get 40-60 more hp we could of, I just wanted it right at 400rwhp, that way if I decide I want a little more its there. We are in the process to be doing a complete stroker kit on this car in the next few months. Once we start I more than likely will retune and get up in the 450 range, but I am good right now. Some slicks and a good track I know I can get low 12's high 11's out of what I have now...... Hope this wasn't to long. I should start a sticky to explain why I am at 9psi and "only 392 rwhp" cause everyone ask! lol/ My numbers do not reflect what you can get out of the hellion turbo or even what I could of got out of mine.

micah

ORIGINAL: 06SaLeEn

I am pretty sure I did not say you were full of crap. So calm down big boy...


ORIGINAL: Perdi

Yeah Hawg, do go puttin words in our mouths...

Ok.. my sarcasm didn't come across effectively in type... I wasn't gettin' bent in the least, not taking anything personal, nothing like that.

ORIGINAL: carmanwelder

He's running 110 octane with loads of timing


No.. "he" is running 93 octaine with 17 degrees of timing.

BTW, I found my sheet from the retunepost MAF/MAS replacement. I lied, it wasn't 417, it was 418.
The phone number of the shop is right on the sheet. Feel free to give them a call, ask for Manny, and ask him about my 4pis tune, what the timing was, and what fuel I was running. He will be glad to talk to you about it. It's fresh in his mind because I was back up there today

local://upfiles/13513/8647E83E06EE4C28A861F5124509B879.jpg


Oh.. and just to stir the pot a little more, dropped back down to my 10psi pulley, did some retuning. Actually spent about 4 hours on the rollers today tweaking it. And again, 93 octaine, still the same 17 degrees of timing, and feel free to call and ask. Easier than doubting it.


local://upfiles/13513/D4A69E65E69944F699CE8767CCAB1B32.jpg

hawgman, which blower is that??

The Saleen Series VI that doesn't make any good power ;)

Nice posts perdi and cheft. Makes me drool justy reading them. I had an 95 gt with the small KB blower and back then that was some really awesome power. John Mcgowan, featured in MM&FF mag in july tried to do a shoot out with Roush, Procharger, & Saleen. Unfortunately it was too late of a notice for Saleen and I think that Roush was a no show. Anyways John's 05 GT that he built ws a KB 2.6, 10psi putting 500+ to the wheels. He installed my first and I have stuck with him til now. Just by your discriptions makes me want the job done now. Another 8 days til I have it done. Thanks for the replys! BTW John won't let me go any higher than a 8lb pully til I get the bottom end done next year. then it's going up. Good luck with your Stangs.

Reguardless of what FI power adder you go with carmanwelder, all I can say is Welcome to the PSI Addiction!!

And so the debate goes on and on and on and on and on......... Buy what you like whether it is a S/C or a turbo and sit down, shut up, and hold on!!!!!!!!!! JMO J

M'kay Hawg... I really didn't think you were geeting bent, at least I wanted to believe you wern't, I knew ya we're cooler than that.. :)

Anyway, I would like to state the fact that (and I think I'm fair in saying this) what ya posted was a touch misleading... I now believe it, but, dude, that's at what... 6600 RMP!!! If ya look it looks like at 6200 rmp your still below 400...so, there is where our differences are... i wasn't figuring hat ya'd bring it up to 6500+RPM... nice to know that ya can though...looks like the A/F is still safe there... :)

So now I understand... but even at almost 400 at 6200...that is still great numbers... congrats meng :)

God damm man, these blown cars are friggin SICK!

Lovin' it....

ORIGINAL: mygt500

And so the debate goes on and on and on and on and on......... Buy what you like whether it is a S/C or a turbo and sit down, shut up, and hold on!!!!!!!!!! JMO J


^^^Excellent advice! ^^^

ORIGINAL: hawgman

ORIGINAL: mygt500

And so the debate goes on and on and on and on and on......... Buy what you like whether it is a S/C or a turbo and sit down, shut up, and hold on!!!!!!!!!! JMO J


^^^Excellent advice! ^^^

+1..that is excellent advice

ORIGINAL: 06SaLeEn

ORIGINAL: androdz

06 Saleen why did you stop ur run at 5.1k rpm. You should check your car you are throwing a lot less hp than one we got here. at ur psi he was over 500hp, the tune was not aggressive and was running safe timming. He didn't care if the engine was a timebomb at those psi levels -.-.

Andrew




Just being extra safe. Very humid and sea level where I live which = Boom if your not careful. Plus I wanted to keep it streetable as possible. My car was lucky to have my local guy who is wonderful! Plus we had Sniper Tuning Owner help out and AMP racing. This question comes up to me all the time so I will give you the reason our numbers are low. 1st off all we wanted was 400rwhp. We pretty much got that. We could of easily gotten 40-60 more hp out of the psi, so we would of been at 430-450 rwhp. My 20 inch rims eat up 10 rwhp so now were at 440-460 rwhp, we were on a mustang dyno which more than likely reads 20-30 rwhp less than a DynoJet, now were at 460-490 rwhp. Plus we stoped the pull at 5100rpm, so more than likely we had another 10-20 rwhp to see. There you go 470-510 rwhp. I am not a big dyno guy and what that number means, nothing but bragging. Wasn't my point. I wanted to get a ultra conservative tune , 400rwhp (on a mustang dyno) at 9psi. We did that. If I wanted my tuner to safely get 40-60 more hp we could of, I just wanted it right at 400rwhp, that way if I decide I want a little more its there. We are in the process to be doing a complete stroker kit on this car in the next few months. Once we start I more than likely will retune and get up in the 450 range, but I am good right now. Some slicks and a good track I know I can get low 12's high 11's out of what I have now...... Hope this wasn't to long. I should start a sticky to explain why I am at 9psi and "only 392 rwhp" cause everyone ask! lol/ My numbers do not reflect what you can get out of the hellion turbo or even what I could of got out of mine.

micah


Erm Micah I live in Puerto Rico and my friends car is from here. I dont think you could live in a place more humid and @ sea level than Puerto Rico lol.

Andrew

about time i started some debate here!!!!! We can go on talking about which is better all day and bla bla bla but I am sorry you can't debate which sounds better and instantly gives everyone a dont F*** with me sound. haha

http://videos.streetfire.net/search/mustang+turbo+2005/0/1a026b99-d858-4e24-bc61-984c000213ad.htm

Andrew