Finally got to run against an 05' GTO.. Unfortunatly, or fortunatly for me anyways, the driver of the goat never raced with a manual so i literally smoked him everytime....So far i am not impressed with them heh..

Its about more than speed.

Oh wait they're horribly ugly too.

But, dude......It's a Pontiac.

You should say you are not impressed with the driver. I know a guy that will show you what a bone stock one can do ;)


*cough* me *cough*

Ashes -- I have been asking you for weeeeks now.... bring the Goat out with us one day and I'm sure that you'll get some races in;)... I know that Stang Skel, Daboss, & Sleeper would love to see what the goat has.:eek:

[quote]ORIGINAL: Ashes06GTO

You should say you are not impressed with the driver. I know a guy that will show you what a bone stock one can do ;)

+1 on that!Yes,the LS2 GTO is hard to get off the line which nets alot of wins for S197 drivers but properly driven the GTO is hard to beat!Unless,,,the S197 is modded(see sig LOL!).And yes I would agree they are not that great to look at.Its not retro at all like the stang is and for them to slap that Grand prix with a GTO badge is wrong IMO.

The goats are extremely ugly, they threw a Corvette engine in some available body. They didn't engineer the car and just grabed an available chasis off the shelf and gave it the legendary name. Chrysler has done the same thing with their Charger, I don't care, a muscle car does not come with four doors, even if it's got a Hemi. I had a 69 Charger, at one time Chrysler Corp made an economy car with the Charger name now they have given the Charger name to the luxury chasis of the Chrysler 300. Ford at least redesigned the Stang to look like a modern muscle car. GM just threw out a muscle car name on an available chasis trying to catch on to the retro muscle car craze. The GTO is BUTT ugly, it may slightly faster than a regular Stang, but the Stang is the complete package, not just a POS with a great engine.

Moses, you will never get ashes out to play, because his mommy won't let him play with the big boys. hahaha

Are the LS2's the 400 hp versions? I raced a guy at the track twonights ago, he seemed sure he was going to hit 12's. I told him be patient. He ended up with a high 13 run.

Yeah it was mainly the driver, we gonna be working on hisl launch next weekend, he should be able to keep up by then:D
As for looks..Yeah....WTF was GM thinking......They did good with the new Camero but geezus! Why tarnish the GTO name liek they did??

ORIGINAL: RICAKILLA

Yeah it was mainly the driver, we gonna be working on hisl launch next weekend, he should be able to keep up by then:D
As for looks..Yeah....WTF was GM thinking......They did good with the new Camero but geezus! Why tarnish the GTO name liek they did??


I really cant tell you why they called it a GTO. They just took a car that has been extremely popular in Australia for years and brought it over. I personally like the looks of mine, but I have an 06 so I have the hood scoops and the clear tails. I might just be weird like that lol.

Good luck to your friend too, those things are a pain to launch. Race him from a roll ;) lol

Not trying to be a dick but a well driven LS2 GTO will beat any modern mustang short of a Cobra or GT500.

ORIGINAL: bluebeastsrt

Not trying to be a dick but a well driven LS2 GTO will beat any modern mustang short of a Cobra or GT500.


Werd.

I actually like the new Goats. Their styling is a bit off, but the interior is awesome. I hated the pics I seen of them, but when I seen them driving around and up close, they're really nice.

ORIGINAL: bluebeastsrt

Not trying to be a dick but a well driven LS2 GTO will beat any modern mustang short of a Cobra or GT500.


+1 on that...GTO can be quick...

an LS2 gto will impress you(when i say impress i mean putting a few cars on you) with the right driver. call the driver dog dude, not to all LS2 GTOs because they are FASTER than you!

Nice kill!

You can tell this thread originated somewhere other than in the S/S section for 2 reason.

1. Nobody *or at least I don't* recognize ANY of the names mentioned up there above us.
2. There is a bit of ignorance/labeling on the side of the 05+ owners.

Believe it or not 400 really is more than 300. An LS2 anything should wax a GT anything stock for stock. End of story.

ORIGINAL: 72MachOne99GT

You can tell this thread originated somewhere other than in the S/S section for 2 reason.

1. Nobody *or at least I don't* recognize ANY of the names mentioned up there above us.
2. There is a bit of ignorance/labeling on the side of the 05+ owners.

Believe it or not 400 really is more than 300. An LS2 anything should wax a GT anything stock for stock. End of story.



You don't recognize:
bluebeastsrt
98ls1
doodad
???

And not to continue the ignorance, but I still have never done worse than finish 2-3 car lengths ahead of any GTO, street or track, dig or roll, regardless of mods at the time. I have seen a couple run some fast times though, so I know there exist fast ones with the added benefit of a good driver...I'm just speaking out of my ignorant/labeling 05+ owner's personal experience. ;)

ORIGINAL: 72MachOne99GT

You can tell this thread originated somewhere other than in the S/S section for 2 reason.

1. Nobody *or at least I don't* recognize ANY of the names mentioned up there above us.
2. There is a bit of ignorance/labeling on the side of the 05+ owners.

Believe it or not 400 really is more than 300. An LS2 anything should wax a GT anything stock for stock. End of story.

yes, it was posted in the 05 4.6 section last night

ORIGINAL: 98LS1

ORIGINAL: bluebeastsrt

Not trying to be a dick but a well driven LS2 GTO will beat any modern mustang short of a Cobra or GT500.


Werd.

I actually like the new Goats. Their styling is a bit off, but the interior is awesome. I hated the pics I seen of them, but when I seen them driving around and up close, they're really nice.


+1. And the styling has grown on me the more I see them cruising. It's built as a sleeper from the factory...

Agreed!The key words are "Well Driven"!

ORIGINAL: bluebeastsrt

Not trying to be a dick but a well driven LS2 GTO will beat any modern mustang short of a Cobra or GT500.

WHat??? I think a well driven LS2 would put a hurting on most stock-stockish stangs. Yes, their styling is different but, I do like them. They really grew on me. (The charger is a different story though...)

heavy?....yes. stillpretty fast?....yes. styling took some getting used to.had one for about 3 weeks.beat a couple of mustangs and camaros of all years.

i was pretty happy with the car....until the same dealership had a cobra for sell 3 weeks later:D

Sleeper...it would be soooo much fun if you lived around here. I'd kill to get drug by a car on 20's.

Besides, dude was right, everyone for the first 10 or so post don't belong in S&S.

ORIGINAL: bluebeastsrt

Not trying to be a dick but a well driven LS2 GTO will beat any modern mustang short of a Cobra or GT500.


Careful with the word "any" ;)

No...he's correct. Mod for mod, stock for stock...what part is hard to understand?

I saw a new GT500 run high 12's at 110 mph today they must all be turds and I am totally un-impressed with them.......get my sarcasm here?

ORIGINAL: JD1969

I saw a new GT500 run high 12's at 110 mph today they must all be turds and I am totally un-impressed with them.......get my sarcasm here?
Some people get sarcasm, some don't. Sucks when you have to type THIS IS A JOKE next to your post so people don't get bent.:D

LOL ^ But I really did see a GT500 run that bad today, he was even on a Nitto dr. The guy just was new to the car and I am not sure how much track experiance he had, it was a really nice looking car though and I give the guycredit for actually getting out there and running the car.

ORIGINAL: 98LS1

No...he's correct. Mod for mod, stock for stock...what part is hard to understand?


The word ANY automatically infers stock for stock? Maybe my IQ has dropped 80 points or something, last time I checked, ANY meant oh let me think ANY as in ANY modern Mustang be it stock or otherwise, but hey, maybe thats just me, we live in a society that even questions what the word IS means so maybe it's just me or maybe you're the guy we should go to to explain what somebody else meant when they typed it. Sheeeesh.

ORIGINAL: bluebeastsrt

ORIGINAL: JD1969

I saw a new GT500 run high 12's at 110 mph today they must all be turds and I am totally un-impressed with them.......get my sarcasm here?
Some people get sarcasm, some don't. Sucks when you have to type THIS IS A JOKE next to your post so people don't get bent.:D


I got it, and joked back, but mine didn't get taken that way either, such is life in a forum where words are flat and tone unheard.

I should be able to give a good run to a stock GT500.

My car is stock for only 2 MORE DAYS!!!!!! then it will be a pullied biatch!! john, i should be close to you then;)

You will out mph me but I am not wottied about you out launching me. I was pulling 1.5's all day today buddy;)

ORIGINAL: bluebeastsrt

Not trying to be a dick but a well driven LS2 GTO will beat any modern mustang short of a Cobra or GT500.
+1 400 hp>300hp

ORIGINAL: doodad

I should be able to give a good run to a stock GT500.

My car is stock for only 2 MORE DAYS!!!!!! then it will be a pullied biatch!! john, i should be close to you then;)





Congrats! Da Terminator!! :D

ORIGINAL: 98LS1

Sleeper...it would be soooo much fun if you lived around here. I'd kill to get drug by a car on 20's.

Besides, dude was right, everyone for the first 10 or so post don't belong in S&S.


how is he gonna drag you... pull you by your nitrous line? :)

The LS1 GTOs are slow as piss compared to what I expected, and it seems like the LS2 cars are still really hard to launch.

To the people bitching about styling; i'd gladly drive a LS2 GTO over a new mustang. They would be a nice DD car.

I'm all about style, that's why I drive a NEON.[8D]

ORIGINAL: czwalga00gt

To the people bitching about styling; i'd gladly drive a LS2 GTO over a new mustang. They would be a nice DD car.


I think the only thing wrong with the GTO is the name, as a performance car I like it, I like the styling and really like the LS2 but a GTO it ain't. GM took the easy way on it name wise but it's still a great car.

ORIGINAL: bluebeastsrt

I'm all about style, that's why I drive a NEON.[8D]

I love humor.

ORIGINAL: viking396

ORIGINAL: czwalga00gt

To the people bitching about styling; i'd gladly drive a LS2 GTO over a new mustang. They would be a nice DD car.


I think the only thing wrong with the GTO is the name, as a performance car I like it, I like the styling and really like the LS2 but a GTO it ain't. GM took the easy way on it name wise but it's still a great car.



I can agree with that. The exterior styling is not the best, but the interior is nicer than any mustang interior made, along with a pretty stout engine. It would be a great DD car.

most GTO's around here seem to be owned by middle age people who wanted a sport- luxury car as a DD, they are kept stock and you are hard pressed to find one that wants to race .....just like the vettes:D

ORIGINAL: JD1969

You will out mph me but I am not wottied about you out launching me. I was pulling 1.5's all day today buddy;)


1.5 60' that ain't happening to me for a long time. i read your other post again. Damn, even my pullied termi can't beat you but should be close. Your biatch is fast!!!

ORIGINAL: RICAKILLA

Finally got to run against an 05' GTO.. Unfortunatly, or fortunatly for me anyways, the driver of the goat never raced with a manual so i literally smoked him everytime....So far i am not impressed with them heh..


This really cracks me up. I guess since I've seen an S197 run low 14's I automaticly assume thats the cars potential? Spare me with your idealogical formula on grading cars..Not only does it suck but you will find yourself getting laughedat or flamed on by 99.9% of ppl in this section..

<<< doesn't believe the gto is a dog ( its a car). Its funny when mustang owners sit in my car and they are just amazed how it has a much better designed/built interior and it still has very good power. power per dollar GTO> GT all around better value GTO>>>>GT

ORIGINAL: stanger99

<<< doesn't believe the gto is a dog ( its a car). Its funny when mustang owners sit in my car and they are just amazed how it has a much better designed/built interior and it still has very good power. power per dollar GTO> GT all around better value GTO>>>>GT


That's funny. I looked at the GTO before I bought my Mustang, and I like the design of the interior, the exterior, and overall styling of the Mustang much better than that of the GTO.

i think styling is completely personal. I have met many people who thought 05+ mustangs were so ugly. some loves the look. so you may think GTOs are ugly but some might like the way they look better. I personally like the way GTOs look. not ugly cars IMO.

about power GTOs are definetely faster. well driven GTO will put at least 4-5 cars on a well driven 05+ stang GT.

If you think the ls2 gto is a dog your ignorant enough said. It would walk the new GT's..thats a car im not impressed with dont like anyting about it really and the interior is horrible.. GTO def has a better interior and power for sure, plus its better built and can have a new 06 gto for less than a new and some cases used GT. So yea you've ran horrible drivers or ls1's because your car would look bad against a properly driven one

Some of you mustang guys are so funny. First: Sleeper05, your stang is very nice, but 12.7 @109 is what i ran stock! Most of you guys are always comparing a bolt on 05 to a stock GTO. Lets go bolt on for bolt on. I have owned 4 Mustangs, one being the 1994. I can remember when everyone complained about how ugly the new mustang was. I had people tell me how slow my car was, because it was a 94 and auto. They were right. That was the first year for the AODE and it was hard to find anyone who knew anything about the computer in the trans. Now, everyone loves the 94-95 stang and there are developments around the computer, but after i built the engine with all Edelbrock components, that car would not get out the 13s. I sold it for a 1997 TA. The car was a beast and after some work, became a low 12 sec car. With that said, I am putting 440rwhp with just a HPE-s cam, headers, pullie and tune. I just ran 12.40 at 115 at Atco on Friday, without drag tires. With tires, I am confident i will run high 11s. Sorry but i won't even run an 05-06 unless it has serious work. When I was stock, i raced 4 new mustangs and it was over before it started. I'm sorry, but I have always been a Mustang guy and I still love them, but Ford is always behind the eight ball. Everything has 300 HP and the turbo guys in other named cars are modifiying and leaving the stangs behind. And talk about the chargers and four doors, but I have seen some charges run 13.8s and that is what a stock stang runs. I am not bashing the Mustang, because I love the friendly comp, but come on a real car guy will call it what it is. Tkae the SRT-8 Jeep. Now that is performance, 13.1 at 103 is what one ran friday night, bone stock. As for looks of the GTO. They are Suspect, that is why I put 18.0 front and 18.5 in rear AZA silver. My car is black with 20 perc tint. I receive complimants all day long on my car and I even have older guys telling thats the way a GTO should sound. I am at Atco everyother week and anticipate being there in the next couple weeks. If anyone wants to see a n/a GTO run 11s be my guess. My tag reads FATMAN

Sorry, when I ran 12.7 @109, i was on drag tires

Didn't you have a different name before that got banned? ;)

ORIGINAL: bluebeastsrt

I'm all about style, that's why I drive a NEON.[8D]



um, sigged.

I barely post on any site, so i was never banned.

I might have bought one of those LS2 GTOs but I could not figure out how to get the top down.

I also don't find the GTO to be ugly or overrated. But the bottom line for me is that a good deal could not be had in my area at the time........and I wasn't forking out 35K for the extra 100hp. Heck, the few 06's that are still on lots in my area are still demanding 30+K. Maybe it has to do with geography, but I'd like to know where everyone is finding brand spankin new LS2 Goats for under 25K.[&:]

Butbrand new....stock for stock,the LS2 GTOand the new Mustang GT simply were not on equal footing......design-wise, performance-wise, or price-wise. Simple as that. The GTO was built with a different target consumer in mind. Any attempt to compare the two will find itself in apple vs. orange's territory.[8D]

yeah... those LS2 GTO's are slow POS'es with no speed whatsoever... shouldn't even be called a muscle car....


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uQ2Lpseielc (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uQ2Lpseielc)

:eek:


[/sarcasm]

03/04 Cobra > LS2 GTO > 03/04 Mach 1 > 3v GT > LS1 GTO > 2v GT

This is stock for stock, driver for driver.

ORIGINAL: 01SilverGT

03/04 Cobra > LS2 GTO > 03/04 Mach 1 > 3v GT > LS1 GTO > 2v GT

This is stock for stock, driver for driver.


NEVERMIND WHAT IT CAN BEAT!!!!!
IT'S SLOOOOOOOOOWWWW!!!!




















which says alot for what it can beat :eek:

ORIGINAL: 01SilverGT

03/04 Cobra > LS2 GTO > 03/04 Mach 1 > 3v GT > LS1 GTO > 2v GT

This is stock for stock, driver for driver.


I mean really...couldn't you just have left the 2v off the list? It would have been better than putting it dead last...Lets change it a bit:

03/04 Cobra > LS2 GTO > 03/04 Mach 1 > 3v GT > LS1 GTO > 2v PI GT > 2v NPI GT

:D

Fatman, I think you'll be hard pressed to find many GT owners on this site that think their stock cars are the fastest thing on the road...and the OP's errant classification of the LS2 Goat as a "Dog" has been properly bashed in this thread, and should be enough even for your liking.

ORIGINAL: Morbid Intentions

ORIGINAL: 01SilverGT

03/04 Cobra > LS2 GTO > 03/04 Mach 1 > 3v GT > LS1 GTO > 2v GT

This is stock for stock, driver for driver.


NEVERMIND WHAT IT CAN BEAT!!!!!
IT'S SLOOOOOOOOOWWWW!!!!




















which says alot for what it can beat :eek:



Atleast I never said my car was fast or that I could beat an LS2. [8D]

ORIGINAL: 72MachOne99GT

An LS2 anything should wax a GT anything stock for stock. End of story.



S197 GT > LS2trailblazer SS

new edge GT = drivers race with a LS2tralblazer SS



uhhh!! you aint got nothin on this... we totally owned your full size soccer mom SUV!!!

[8D]

ORIGINAL: BleedinBlue

ORIGINAL: 01SilverGT

03/04 Cobra > LS2 GTO > 03/04 Mach 1 > 3v GT > LS1 GTO > 2v GT

This is stock for stock, driver for driver.


I mean really...couldn't you just have left the 2v off the list? It would have been better than putting it dead last...Lets change it a bit:

03/04 Cobra > LS2 GTO > 03/04 Mach 1 > 3v GT > LS1 GTO > 2v PI GT > 2v NPI GT

:D

Fatman, I think you'll be hard pressed to find many GT owners on this site that think their stock cars are the fastest thing on the road...and the OP's errant classification of the LS2 Goat as a "Dog" has been properly bashed in this thread, and should be enough even for your liking.


I like your list alittle better, atleast my 2v isnt last anymore and my 3v has alittle more credit to its name. :D

This thread has become borderline retarded.[8D]

ORIGINAL: Morbid Intentions

ORIGINAL: 72MachOne99GT

An LS2 anything should wax a GT anything stock for stock. End of story.



S197 GT > LS2trailblazer SS

new edge GT = drivers race with a LS2tralblazer SS



uhhh!! you aint got nothin on this... we totally owned your full size soccer mom SUV!!!

[8D]


Careful Tony ran 13.4 in his TB SS Stock..more than enough to keep ahead of most S197 cars.... remember there is an AWD and 2WD version of the SS ;)

RWD Trailblazer SS = uhhh!!!! what's up!

AWD Trailblazer SS = AHHH!!! wheres it going!?!?!

Yea why is the tbss even mentioned in this thread again? But a awd would be more of a drivers race with a new edge gt, the a 2wd would be on the s197 level

ORIGINAL: KBlaze94

Yea why is the tbss even mentioned in this thread again? But a awd would be more of a drivers race with a new edge gt, the a 2wd would be on the s197 level


the TBSS is mentioned in this thread because someone said an LS2 anything would put multiple lengths on any stock Mustang GT.

and your info is a little skewed... if you're gonna post and ridicule, at least follow up the ridicule with accurate information... now I have to take time out of my day and correct you

AWD TBSS = S197

RWD TBSS = New Edge

ORIGINAL: Morbid Intentions
the TBSS is mentioned in this thread because someone said an LS2 anything would put multiple lengths on any stock Mustang GT.

and your info is a little skewed... if you're gonna post and ridicule, at least follow up the ridicule with accurate information... now I have to take time out of my day and correct you

AWD TBSS = S197

RWD TBSS = New Edge


Confused by this.... the RWD TB SS has run 13.4 stock while the AWD variant has seen a 13.8 (from what i can find)....Anotherwords

RWD TB> AWD TB

ORIGINAL: bluebeastsrt

Not trying to be a dick but a well driven LS2 GTO will beat any modern mustang short of a Cobra or GT500.


What if both cars are "well driven"?

A 'well' driven LS2 GTO is a low 13 / high 12 car.... that's a lot to go against with most mustangs. A mach1 'well' driven can get close but the only assured victory would be a 'well' driven S/C Cobra or GT500.

ORIGINAL: S8ER01Z

ORIGINAL: Morbid Intentions
the TBSS is mentioned in this thread because someone said an LS2 anything would put multiple lengths on any stock Mustang GT.

and your info is a little skewed... if you're gonna post and ridicule, at least follow up the ridicule with accurate information... now I have to take time out of my day and correct you

AWD TBSS = S197

RWD TBSS = New Edge


Confused by this.... the RWD TB SS has run 13.4 stock while the AWD variant has seen a 13.8 (from what i can find)....Anotherwords

RWD TB> AWD TB



you sure those times are right?? I have a Feeling the RWD one isnt stock.... THe AWD Should take the RWD one easily..... Look at the Jeep SRT8 :D

ORIGINAL: bluebeastsrt

Not trying to be a dick but a well driven LS2 GTO will beat any modern mustang short of a Cobra or GT500.


Sure you are! I haven't seen any times online that indicate what you're saying. They are fast, but not cobra fast.

ORIGINAL: stangfan99gt

+1 400 hp>300hp
[/quote]

Only if you can get it to the ground. 340hp > 300hp, but a charger R/T < s197GT

ORIGINAL: moosestang

ORIGINAL: bluebeastsrt

Not trying to be a dick but a well driven LS2 GTO will beat any modern mustang short of a Cobra or GT500.


Sure you are! I haven't seen any times online that indicate what you're saying. They are fast, but not cobra fast.



Maybe you should go to the track more often?

ORIGINAL: KBlaze94

If you think the ls2 gto is a dog your ignorant enough said. It would walk the new GT's..thats a car im not impressed with dont like anyting about it really and the interior is horrible.. GTO def has a better interior and power for sure, plus its better built and can have a new 06 gto for less than a new and some cases used GT. So yea you've ran horrible drivers or ls1's because your car would look bad against a properly driven one


MSRP for a loaded '06 GT vs MSRP for an '06 GTO isn't even close, the GTO costs way more however since they sold like crap, and sorry but that's the cold hard truth they can now be had for MUCH less than MSRP. Hence the reason Pontiac isn't offering it for sale anymore. I fail to see how it's better built? Pontiac isn't exactly known for making the best built cars, the GTO isn't any better, neither is the Mustang but if I were to compare the two, the Pontiac's I've owned in the past weren't what I would brag about, I've owned 13 Ford's over the years, none of them were problems, the few GM cars I've owned, are the very reason why I'll never own one again.

As for lowing to an '06 GTO, prior to the SC I never lost to one (I've squared off against several on the street and track), after the SC I haven't either but thats not really fair so I'll leave it out.

The GTO as a car is nice but it ain't a GTO.

ORIGINAL: fatman

Some of you mustang guys are so funny. First: Sleeper05, your stang is very nice, but 12.7 @109 is what i ran stock! Most of you guys are always comparing a bolt on 05 to a stock GTO. Lets go bolt on for bolt on. I have owned 4 Mustangs, one being the 1994. I can remember when everyone complained about how ugly the new mustang was. I had people tell me how slow my car was, because it was a 94 and auto. They were right. That was the first year for the AODE and it was hard to find anyone who knew anything about the computer in the trans. Now, everyone loves the 94-95 stang and there are developments around the computer, but after i built the engine with all Edelbrock components, that car would not get out the 13s. I sold it for a 1997 TA. The car was a beast and after some work, became a low 12 sec car. With that said, I am putting 440rwhp with just a HPE-s cam, headers, pullie and tune. I just ran 12.40 at 115 at Atco on Friday, without drag tires. With tires, I am confident i will run high 11s. Sorry but i won't even run an 05-06 unless it has serious work. When I was stock, i raced 4 new mustangs and it was over before it started. I'm sorry, but I have always been a Mustang guy and I still love them, but Ford is always behind the eight ball. Everything has 300 HP and the turbo guys in other named cars are modifiying and leaving the stangs behind. And talk about the chargers and four doors, but I have seen some charges run 13.8s and that is what a stock stang runs. I am not bashing the Mustang, because I love the friendly comp, but come on a real car guy will call it what it is. Tkae the SRT-8 Jeep. Now that is performance, 13.1 at 103 is what one ran friday night, bone stock. As for looks of the GTO. They are Suspect, that is why I put 18.0 front and 18.5 in rear AZA silver. My car is black with 20 perc tint. I receive complimants all day long on my car and I even have older guys telling thats the way a GTO should sound. I am at Atco everyother week and anticipate being there in the next couple weeks. If anyone wants to see a n/a GTO run 11s be my guess. My tag reads FATMAN


I don't have time to dig into the entire diatribe but for everyone complaining about how ugly the '94 Mustang was they sure sold a sh*tload of them, they out sold all f-bodies combined and did so every year, why because the average buyer didn't think they were ugly, indeed they thought they were rather nice looking. Which might explain why the Mustang was so popular, even during it's off years it sold much better than the GM counterparts. :eek:

As for running stock for stock, screw that, I don't understand why people have the need to compare cars that way, run what ya brung, if you win great, if you lose such is life, work on it till you don't. I know the '06 GTO is capable of 12's but having seen a bunch of them in the mid 13's, some on slicks, I'd really love to see a stocker go 12's. :D

ORIGINAL: BleedinBlue

ORIGINAL: 01SilverGT

03/04 Cobra > LS2 GTO > 03/04 Mach 1 > 3v GT > LS1 GTO > 2v GT

This is stock for stock, driver for driver.


I mean really...couldn't you just have left the 2v off the list? It would have been better than putting it dead last...Lets change it a bit:

03/04 Cobra > LS2 GTO > 03/04 Mach 1 > 3v GT > LS1 GTO > 2v PI GT > 2v NPI GT

:D

Fatman, I think you'll be hard pressed to find many GT owners on this site that think their stock cars are the fastest thing on the road...and the OP's errant classification of the LS2 Goat as a "Dog" has been properly bashed in this thread, and should be enough even for your liking.


yup i haven't really read anything of anyone saying how "great" their 2v is. i know my 2v sucks against other V-8's and even some ricers, so that's why i'm going 4v;)

ORIGINAL: moosestang

ORIGINAL: bluebeastsrt

Not trying to be a dick but a well driven LS2 GTO will beat any modern mustang short of a Cobra or GT500.


Sure you are! I haven't seen any times online that indicate what you're saying. They are fast, but not cobra fast.

WOW, just WOW. So you agree with me?

ORIGINAL: viking396

ORIGINAL: fatman

Some of you mustang guys are so funny. First: Sleeper05, your stang is very nice, but 12.7 @109 is what i ran stock! Most of you guys are always comparing a bolt on 05 to a stock GTO. Lets go bolt on for bolt on. I have owned 4 Mustangs, one being the 1994. I can remember when everyone complained about how ugly the new mustang was. I had people tell me how slow my car was, because it was a 94 and auto. They were right. That was the first year for the AODE and it was hard to find anyone who knew anything about the computer in the trans. Now, everyone loves the 94-95 stang and there are developments around the computer, but after i built the engine with all Edelbrock components, that car would not get out the 13s. I sold it for a 1997 TA. The car was a beast and after some work, became a low 12 sec car. With that said, I am putting 440rwhp with just a HPE-s cam, headers, pullie and tune. I just ran 12.40 at 115 at Atco on Friday, without drag tires. With tires, I am confident i will run high 11s. Sorry but i won't even run an 05-06 unless it has serious work. When I was stock, i raced 4 new mustangs and it was over before it started. I'm sorry, but I have always been a Mustang guy and I still love them, but Ford is always behind the eight ball. Everything has 300 HP and the turbo guys in other named cars are modifiying and leaving the stangs behind. And talk about the chargers and four doors, but I have seen some charges run 13.8s and that is what a stock stang runs. I am not bashing the Mustang, because I love the friendly comp, but come on a real car guy will call it what it is. Tkae the SRT-8 Jeep. Now that is performance, 13.1 at 103 is what one ran friday night, bone stock. As for looks of the GTO. They are Suspect, that is why I put 18.0 front and 18.5 in rear AZA silver. My car is black with 20 perc tint. I receive complimants all day long on my car and I even have older guys telling thats the way a GTO should sound. I am at Atco everyother week and anticipate being there in the next couple weeks. If anyone wants to see a n/a GTO run 11s be my guess. My tag reads FATMAN


I don't have time to dig into the entire diatribe but for everyone complaining about how ugly the '94 Mustang was they sure sold a sh*tload of them, they out sold all f-bodies combined and did so every year, why because the average buyer didn't think they were ugly, indeed they thought they were rather nice looking. Which might explain why the Mustang was so popular, even during it's off years it sold much better than the GM counterparts. :eek:

As for running stock for stock, screw that, I don't understand why people have the need to compare cars that way, run what ya brung, if you win great, if you lose such is life, work on it till you don't. I know the '06 GTO is capable of 12's but having seen a bunch of them in the mid 13's, some on slicks, I'd really love to see a stocker go 12's. :D


Because thats the way the cars were intended to be from the manufacturer, not to mention stockers out number modified cars by a huge margin.....When comparinga certain car modelin general you go by stock performance.......when you compare against a certain individuals car then it's different.......

I am enjoying this discussion...but the comment on MSRP comarison is a little stange. First when i was car shopping the 06 GT was less he $1Klower than the GTO. I love mustangs and seriously considered the GT, GTO and Charger SRT 8. All are great cars. SRT 8 was about $10K more. Both had good power stock...GTO and SRT 8 had more (at least seat of the pants feel) acceleration. I finally decided on the GTO.. SRT 8 was too expensive for what it was (IMO, not as good as the Mustang GT) and the 06 GT was great but I liked the interior and feel of the GTO better. The last deciding factor was that and the fact only 13,000 or so 2006 GTOs were made vs, what maybe 180,000 mustangs (GTs and all models). Some people would say that was a positive for the GTO and some would say that was a positive for the Mustang. I looked at it as a positive for the GTO. Now honestly, the Mustang also has many advantages also. So it is just a persnal choice. But price difference (MSRP) was not even a consideration because it was so minor. In fact, it is kind of a lame point of comparison of cars (except when purchasing them initially). Just my opinion.

ORIGINAL: Ryan86272

ORIGINAL: S8ER01Z

ORIGINAL: Morbid Intentions
the TBSS is mentioned in this thread because someone said an LS2 anything would put multiple lengths on any stock Mustang GT.

and your info is a little skewed... if you're gonna post and ridicule, at least follow up the ridicule with accurate information... now I have to take time out of my day and correct you

AWD TBSS = S197

RWD TBSS = New Edge


Confused by this.... the RWD TB SS has run 13.4 stock while the AWD variant has seen a 13.8 (from what i can find)....Anotherwords

RWD TB> AWD TB



you sure those times are right?? I have a Feeling the RWD one isnt stock.... THe AWD Should take the RWD one easily..... Look at the Jeep SRT8 :D



100% positive... The AWD gets off the line faster but AWD has two negative points (as they all do)... extra weight and more drivetrain loss. In the end RWD > AWD on anything but offroad/bad conditions (snow/dirt and ice.) :)

ORIGINAL: viking396
MSRP for a loaded '06 GT vs MSRP for an '06 GTO isn't even close, the GTO costs way more however since they sold like crap, and sorry but that's the cold hard truth they can now be had for MUCH less than MSRP. Hence the reason Pontiac isn't offering it for sale anymore. I fail to see how it's better built? Pontiac isn't exactly known for making the best built cars, the GTO isn't any better, neither is the Mustang but if I were to compare the two, the Pontiac's I've owned in the past weren't what I would brag about, I've owned 13 Ford's over the years, none of them were problems, the few GM cars I've owned, are the very reason why I'll never own one again.


Several things here...a loaded GT is damn close to costing what a LOADED GTO costs (since they all came 'loaded')... and when they first announced the GTO was being imported here they also said it would only be for a certain time table (news flash...pontiac didn't pull the plug on the GTO..it was PLANNED from the begining to only bring so many over here for a set number of years).

Fail to see how it's better built? Ever been in one?The S197 vs a GTO is a blow out... trust me I spent hours car shopping with my friend who bought an 06 GTO over an 06 GT and he is one picky SOB. This isn't a pontiac FYI..its a holden and its much better than anything pontiac has put out on this side of the pond. No matter what pontiac experience you had (owning, driving, whatever) it doesn't apply here because it's not a pontiac built car. Blind hate / loyalty gets you nowhere.

I looked at a GTO when I bought my Mustang. The interior is light years beyond the mustang (except for the crappy HVAC knobs). The deciding factor was that it did sticker almost 4K higher than my car and my car has every option aside from the Auto5v (including the somewhat over priced $1200 Shaker 1000 option). I couldn't justify spending the extra dough for similar performance on a car that I thought didn't look as nice as the Mustang. I do wish the Mustang had as nice of an interior as the Goat, oh... and that 6 speed.

ROFL @ comparing new GTO's qualityto previous Pontiacs

ORIGINAL: C6 VETTE

ORIGINAL: viking396

ORIGINAL: fatman

Some of you mustang guys are so funny. First: Sleeper05, your stang is very nice, but 12.7 @109 is what i ran stock! Most of you guys are always comparing a bolt on 05 to a stock GTO. Lets go bolt on for bolt on. I have owned 4 Mustangs, one being the 1994. I can remember when everyone complained about how ugly the new mustang was. I had people tell me how slow my car was, because it was a 94 and auto. They were right. That was the first year for the AODE and it was hard to find anyone who knew anything about the computer in the trans. Now, everyone loves the 94-95 stang and there are developments around the computer, but after i built the engine with all Edelbrock components, that car would not get out the 13s. I sold it for a 1997 TA. The car was a beast and after some work, became a low 12 sec car. With that said, I am putting 440rwhp with just a HPE-s cam, headers, pullie and tune. I just ran 12.40 at 115 at Atco on Friday, without drag tires. With tires, I am confident i will run high 11s. Sorry but i won't even run an 05-06 unless it has serious work. When I was stock, i raced 4 new mustangs and it was over before it started. I'm sorry, but I have always been a Mustang guy and I still love them, but Ford is always behind the eight ball. Everything has 300 HP and the turbo guys in other named cars are modifiying and leaving the stangs behind. And talk about the chargers and four doors, but I have seen some charges run 13.8s and that is what a stock stang runs. I am not bashing the Mustang, because I love the friendly comp, but come on a real car guy will call it what it is. Tkae the SRT-8 Jeep. Now that is performance, 13.1 at 103 is what one ran friday night, bone stock. As for looks of the GTO. They are Suspect, that is why I put 18.0 front and 18.5 in rear AZA silver. My car is black with 20 perc tint. I receive complimants all day long on my car and I even have older guys telling thats the way a GTO should sound. I am at Atco everyother week and anticipate being there in the next couple weeks. If anyone wants to see a n/a GTO run 11s be my guess. My tag reads FATMAN


I don't have time to dig into the entire diatribe but for everyone complaining about how ugly the '94 Mustang was they sure sold a sh*tload of them, they out sold all f-bodies combined and did so every year, why because the average buyer didn't think they were ugly, indeed they thought they were rather nice looking. Which might explain why the Mustang was so popular, even during it's off years it sold much better than the GM counterparts. :eek:

As for running stock for stock, screw that, I don't understand why people have the need to compare cars that way, run what ya brung, if you win great, if you lose such is life, work on it till you don't. I know the '06 GTO is capable of 12's but having seen a bunch of them in the mid 13's, some on slicks, I'd really love to see a stocker go 12's. :D


Because thats the way the cars were intended to be from the manufacturer, not to mention stockers out number modified cars by a huge margin.....When comparinga certain car modelin general you go by stock performance.......when you compare against a certain individuals car then it's different.......


I compare against the guy I'm going to run against, it's why I never post a "how will I do against so and so" on a forum, I prefer to find out the old fashioned way, stock, great, modified even better. "Because thats the way the cars were intended to be from the manufacturer" Really, manufacturer intentions usually don't jibe with the consumers intent and most people on here I'm sure don't follow manufacturer intent or they wouldn't be racing.

ORIGINAL: viking396
they out sold all f-bodies combined and did so every year,

Wrong. As you can clearly see the Fbody actual outsold mustangs a few random years. ;) The margin was 2 to 1 in 1993, and 2001/2002 I believe..the initial ramp up of 4th gen production and the last 2 years of production. The rest of the numbers aren't that bad really.

F-Body Production Numbers
1993..........54,068 (14,112 Firebird)
1994..........165,549 (47,117 Firebird)
1995..........122,844 (51,059 Firebird)
1996..........97,850 (30,982 Firebird)
1997..........126,682 (30,754 Firebird)

Foxbody/SN95
1993..........114,228
1994..........123,198
1995..........165,037
1996..........126,532
1997..........100,254

ORIGINAL: S8ER01Z

Several things here...a loaded GT is damn close to costing what a LOADED GTO costs (since they all came 'loaded')... and when they first announced the GTO was being imported here they also said it would only be for a certain time table (news flash...pontiac didn't pull the plug on the GTO..it was PLANNED from the begining to only bring so many over here for a set number of years).

The GTO before automatic transmission and gas guzzler tax to go with that option (1,300!!) or 700 something for the manual the GTO STARTED at over 31k, out here anyway I bought my loaded 2006 GT for $27,500 so in my view, not close, maybe 100 bucks or so a month difference is close to some people, for many, it’s a the difference between buying or not.

News flash, the car was not planned to be phased out in 2006, if it were people wouldn't have been shocked that it had been discontinued. The GTO never hit the company's 18,000 annual U.S. sales target. With no sign that the U.S. coupe market would revive, and with GTO sales going downhill, as well as new federal regulations kicking in that would add costs to the car, GM cancelled the GTO after three model years. The last cars likely will be found through summer on dealer lots.
. Funny how facts can ruin it for some people.

ORIGINAL: S8ER01Z

Fail to see how it's better built? Ever been in one?The S197 vs a GTO is a blow out... trust me I spent hours car shopping with my friend who bought an 06 GTO over an 06 GT and he is one picky SOB. This isn't a pontiac FYI..its a holden and its much better than anything pontiac has put out on this side of the pond. No matter what pontiac experience you had (owning, driving, whatever) it doesn't apply here because it's not a pontiac built car. Blind hate / loyalty gets you nowhere.


Quality wise I have been in a few, no they didn't impress me quality wise but they were cool to look at. Cool looking does not a quality car make. Your friends pickyness does not a general public make. How many Mustang GT's are sold each year, I'll choose to look at the overall numbers rather than your friends opinion thanks. And yes, it is a Pontiac, Holden is a division OF GM and GM slapped a Pontiac plate on it, so, it’s a Pontiac. We can debate it till the cows come home, Holden may have built it but I digress, I made my point.

As for build quality, J.D. Powers gave the GTO a score of 2 out of 5, in my view they didn’t get blown away by the cool look anymore than I did. I don’t have blind hate or loyalty, I have sued Ford over a car in the past, the last thing I can be called is a fanboy. By the way, the Mustang got a 3 out of 5, not exactly something to brag about but better than a same year 2006 GTO, sorry.

Here is what J.D. Powers looks at to come to that stellar rating.
“Overall Quality - Manufacturing: Taken from the Initial Quality Study (IQS), which looks at owner-reported problems in the first 90 days of new-vehicle ownership, this score is based on problems that have caused a complete breakdown or malfunction of any component, feature, or item (i.e., components that stop working or trim pieces that break or come loose).”

ORIGINAL: S8ER01Z

ORIGINAL: viking396
they out sold all f-bodies combined and did so every year,

Wrong. As you can clearly see the Fbody actual outsold mustangs a few random years. ;) The margin was 2 to 1 in 1993, and 2001/2002 I believe..the initial ramp up of 4th gen production and the last 2 years of production. The rest of the numbers aren't that bad really.

F-Body Production Numbers
1993..........54,068 (14,112 Firebird)
1994..........165,549 (47,117 Firebird)
1995..........122,844 (51,059 Firebird)
1996..........97,850 (30,982 Firebird)
1997..........126,682 (30,754 Firebird)

Foxbody/SN95
1993..........114,228
1994..........123,198
1995..........165,037
1996..........126,532
1997..........100,254



I stand corrected. I could have sworn the numbers were different but it has been a long time since I looked, thanks for the info!

Hey morbid, I think your the one that needs to catch up on info, get your facts straight before you try to correct my already correct info..thanks.

Saw a twin-turbo LS2 GTO last night at LACR. Not a dog. lol

LOL... A LS2 will BLOW THE DOORS off that GT (with listed mod's). For that matter, an LS1 will BLOW that GT away.
Stick with racing LT1's (13.6-14.0), more in line with your GT.

they are deffinately not that fast. i walk ls1 goats all day long bu i think the ls2 i raced just had a very bad driver

Viking_ 99% of car owners never track their cars. Very few are modded to the extent of having a 100+hp gain. I said already if you are comparing against aspecific owners car then yes................But in general ,makes of cars are judged by their stock performance........You would beat an LS2 Goat, but many others would not. So I guess we should say from now on GT Mustangs are faster than GTO's because Viking beat one....:eek:

ORIGINAL: KBlaze94

Hey morbid, I think your the one that needs to catch up on info, get your facts straight before you try to correct my already correct info..thanks.


well I was gonna let this die because it wasn't on topic... but....

I do have my facts straight... my old mustang schooledRWD trailblazer SS's multiple times (2-3 car lengths).... they are high 13 - low 14 secondSUV's.

the RWD times you dug up are not stock.... if they are? I guess I had a basic bolt on 12 second 2V

ANY car that goes through the 2WD to AWD transition is faster in the 1/4... so unless the AWD system in the trailblazer weighs more than a volkswagon beetle, and sucks up BHP worse than noobs sucks at posting... then I guess you're right....the only way AWD< 2WD is

A. the RWD has some sticky ass tires and the AWD has stockers
or...
B. if they are going from a roll and AWD drivetrain loss takes it's toll

if you want to argue.... I'll be more than happy to take it to PM's with you.... but if a stock one can do 13.4 and a modded one does this?
http://videos.streetfire.net/search/trailblazer+SS/1/6562cfd0-62c1-45be-b9ce-8dd19f3d5079.htm

hmmm.....

ORIGINAL: viking396
The GTO before automatic transmission and gas guzzler tax to go with that option (1,300!!) or 700 something for the manual the GTO STARTED at over 31k, out here anyway I bought my loaded 2006 GT for $27,500 so in my view, not close, maybe 100 bucks or so a month difference is close to some people, for many, it’s a the difference between buying or not.

Maybe true for some..but a few hundred dollars never stop mustangs from outselling the base Z28 ;)


News flash, the car was not planned to be phased out in 2006, if it were people wouldn't have been shocked that it had been discontinued. The GTO never hit the company's 18,000 annual U.S. sales target. With no sign that the U.S. coupe market would revive, and with GTO sales going downhill, as well as new federal regulations kicking in that would add costs to the car, GM cancelled the GTO after three model years. The last cars likely will be found through summer on dealer lots.
. Funny how facts can ruin it for some people.
Speaking of...
http://www.highperformancepontiac.com/features/0404pon_2004_pontiac_gto/
"According to Pontiac, the deal with Holden is to build and ship 18,000 GTOs to the US per year for 3 years because that's as much as the Holden plant can handle."

Quality wise I have been in a few, no they didn't impress me quality wise but they were cool to look at. Cool looking does not a quality car make. Your friends pickyness does not a general public make. How many Mustang GT's are sold each year, I'll choose to look at the overall numbers rather than your friends opinion thanks. And yes, it is a Pontiac, Holden is a division OF GM and GM slapped a Pontiac plate on it, so, it’s a Pontiac. We can debate it till the cows come home, Holden may have built it but I digress, I made my point.
not sure what your point was...the mustang sells better despite its quality?

As for build quality, J.D. Powers gave the GTO a score of 2 out of 5, in my view they didn’t get blown away by the cool look anymore than I did. I don’t have blind hate or loyalty, I have sued Ford over a car in the past, the last thing I can be called is a fanboy. By the way, the Mustang got a 3 out of 5, not exactly something to brag about but better than a same year 2006 GTO, sorry.

Here is what I have to say and J.D.... they scored the Pontiac G6 higher than the GTO on their reviews... I owned a 2005 G6 and there is currently a NHSTA investigation on a number of MAJOR steering failures as well as brake issues on that car.. I for one had my steering completely lock up while driving.... I returned the car just over a year after buying it due to major issues that dozens of people were experiencing. Obviously J.D. isn't worth crap when it comes down to it IMHO.
http://www.radaronline.com/features/2006/09/jd_power_associates.php

*Sigh*.. you know so much...
Look up TonyGXP..if you feel like arguing with his results...have fun.
http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f51/TonyGXP/SS028.jpg
13.49 @ 102mph with K&N drop in filter - 2006 TBSS 2WD
12.54 @107+ 1.67 60' CAI Tune, UD pulley, LS1 Fans, 3200 Vig & DR's - 2006 TBSS 2WD

The best AWD time I've seen is 13.7 @ 99mph with K&N.. if you can find better..please by all means.

no I don't feel like looking up one particular person and holding him up on an altar... I take the times I see and round them off as a whole... TBSS's are good forhigh 13's to low 14'scompletely stock... which is good for an SUV... really it is... but for you to take the best time ever recorded and compare it to anything is retarted... by your logic 03/04 mach 1's go 13.2 and S197's go 13.4 all the time too

now like I said... your more than welcome to take this up into PM's with me, by all means...

and now let's get back to what the thread was about there tough guy because it's pointless for me to argue with a fanboy... next thing you know gigantor extracto cams and a bazillion shot of N20will fly into the thread out of nowhere

ORIGINAL: C6 VETTE

Viking_ 99% of car owners never track their cars. Very few are modded to the extent of having a 100+hp gain. I said already if you are comparing against aspecific owners car then yes................But in general ,makes of cars are judged by their stock performance........You would beat an LS2 Goat, but many others would not. So I guess we should say from now on GT Mustangs are faster than GTO's because Viking beat one....


I never said 99% track their cars, I also never said they modded them. My point is that 99% of the people could care less what Ford, GM, Chrysler etc.. intentions are for the car, they have their own intentions and racing doesn't have to be one of them. I do agree that in general cars are compared by their stock performance, by magazines and the press. On this Mustang forum and other forums I wouldn't agree with you as most people change something so the average car isn't stock.

Also, I haven't exactly been on here saying how I beat ALL LS2 GTO's, I have beaten the ones I’ve met, before and after the SC install but that most definitely doesn't mean I could beat all, nor have I assumed Mustang's can beat all but you certainly seem intent on twisting it.

ORIGINAL: S8ER01Z

Maybe true for some..but a few hundred dollars never stop mustangs from outselling the base Z28 ;)


I was talking about per month… the GTO doesn’t cost a few hundred more, it costs thousands more, lets take a 2007 loaded GT, it’s still a few thousand less than a loaded GTO. The reason the Mustang out sold the Z28 was because it was a better car, perhaps if the GTO was priced more in line with a premium GT we could compare sales figures but alas the GTO never made the sales number sooooooo comparing the two is moot.


Speaking of...
http://www.highperformancepontiac.com/features/0404pon_2004_pontiac_gto/
"According to Pontiac, the deal with Holden is to build and ship 18,000 GTOs to the US per year for 3 years because that's as much as the Holden plant can handle."


Right, they planned on building 18,000 units per year, they didn’t sell 18,000 units per year, they had planned on selling for more than 3 years if they sold the 18,000 per year but Pontiac smartly so, gave the model 3 years to make the mark or be cut. You chose to read into it that Pontiac would only make it for 3 years. If the car sold the intended amount they would never cut it because that wouldn’t be very smart, but then we are talking about GM, they killed the GN, the Z28 and other cars that were selling well enough to be continued, seems GM doesn’t learn and Ford has to keep teaching them. Not about making money per se, but about listening to what the people want. Remember, Ford wanted a FWD Mustang (Probe) in the late 80’s, people told Ford they would regret that change and Ford listened. So, while Ford isn’t the sharpest tool in the shed they do listen better to the buying public.


Here is what I have to say and J.D.... they scored the Pontiac G6 higher than the GTO on their reviews... I owned a 2005 G6 and there is currently a NHSTA investigation on a number of MAJOR steering failures as well as brake issues on that car.. I for one had my steering completely lock up while driving.... I returned the car just over a year after buying it due to major issues that dozens of people were experiencing. Obviously J.D. isn't worth crap when it comes down to it IMHO.
http://www.radaronline.com/features/2006/09/jd_power_associates.php (http://www.radaronline.com/features/2006/09/jd_power_associates.php)


J.D. Powers isn’t at fault for their rating, they base the rating on reports filed by consumers (huge numbers by the way, not dozens), so dislike them all you want the numbers don’t lie. You have gone through the exact reason why I will never, ever, own another Pontiac again, thanks for helping to prove the point.

Last I checked a Vert GT loaded was $31,280 MSRP... if thats not close I have no idea what is. You are correct though it is a few thousand more..not hundreds...apologize for that.

As for the TBSS... I was merely stating that the BEST AWD time is still less than the best 2WD time...so 2WD > AWD as previously stated.

Your planned production numbers (about 18K) are pretty close but your reason for stopping prodction...missed the mark. The GTO is really a Holden Monaro (Australian Muscle Car) with some exterior changes. GM did rush to get it to market but that is primarly because they wanted to get it to market so it could have a 3 yr run. The run couldn't be more than that because the vehicle could meet some safety requirement in the 2007 model yr. I don't rememer what...Side air bags or something. Anyway, they made what they made. As far as MSRP...you said a loaded Mustang GT. Well, when I was looking a "loaded" (wheels shaker sound system, appearance package, etc) bumped the MSRP over $30K. The MSRP on the GTO that I eventually boughtwas just over $31K. The only options available on the GTO were 18" wheels or and automatic transission. Everything else is standard. Mine came with the M6 ad th 18" wheels. Now the auto did have a as guzzler tax on t that bumped the price up...I think about $1,500. I don't doubt you are faster...you should be! Reasonably stock GTOs are heavier and make less HP. I think GTs are great cars...I just chose not to buy a Ford this time

ORIGINAL: S8ER01Z

Last I checked a Vert GT loaded was $31,280 MSRP... if thats not close I have no idea what is. You are correct though it is a few thousand more..not hundreds...apologize for that.

As for the TBSS... I was merely stating that the BEST AWD time is still less than the best 2WD time...so 2WD > AWD as previously stated.


A convertable Vette costs more than the Vette coupe, just like a convertable Mustang GT costs more than a Mustang GT coupe so since they didn't make a convertable GTO, not sure why you would compare them? Might as well start comparing Mustang's to SUV's... :D

There was a guy at the track last night with an 06 GTO MT6 and the guys quickest out of 5 runs was a 14.2. I couldnt believe it. I thought that even if a complete moron was driving that car it would still be in the mid 13's at least. And there was another guy there with a moded out 06 GTO running 13.7. What a freaking overated piece of crap. The cars are ugly as hell and a total piece of garbage.

ORIGINAL: Jekyl n Hyde

Your planned production numbers (about 18K) are pretty close but your reason for stopping prodction...missed the mark. The GTO is really a Holden Monaro (Australian Muscle Car) with some exterior changes. GM did rush to get it to market but that is primarly because they wanted to get it to market so it could have a 3 yr run. The run couldn't be more than that because the vehicle could meet some safety requirement in the 2007 model yr. I don't rememer what...Side air bags or something. Anyway, they made what they made. As far as MSRP...you said a loaded Mustang GT. Well, when I was looking a "loaded" (wheels shaker sound system, appearance package, etc) bumped the MSRP over $30K. The MSRP on the GTO that I eventually boughtwas just over $31K. The only options available on the GTO were 18" wheels or and automatic transission. Everything else is standard. Mine came with the M6 ad th 18" wheels. Now the auto did have a as guzzler tax on t that bumped the price up...I think about $1,500. I don't doubt you are faster...you should be! Reasonably stock GTOs are heavier and make less HP. I think GTs are great cars...I just chose not to buy a Ford this time


At this time w are arguing semantics, the price differs depending on region, what I was talking about was what I have seen in my area, the GTO's started at 31.5k, if you got an automatic you were 1,300 higher, if you got stick you paid 700 higher, thats what was on the sticker from Pontiac, not something I made up. At the time I bought my '06 GT and that's what we're discussing here so it's as close to apples to apples since they don't make an '07 GTO my loaded GT with everything but the shaker 1000 was 27,500, the closest GTO I saw at the time was 32k. As for it not continuing past 2006, Pontiac in many interviews said they hoped to sell it longer than 3 years but that they started with 3 and would revisit depending on sales volume etc... they knew about the regs change for '07 and could have made changes had the car met sales goals, it didn't so GM got left over cars which were discounted to get them off the lot.
We can agree to disagree I think but we should be able to agree that they didn't sell the amount they wanted to per year.

Stock the GTO makes more horsepower than I did stock, as for weighing more a 100hp advantage really helps make up the difference. I shouldn't have beat the LS2 versions I beat before the SCbut I believe I beat them because of driver issues, maybe because of the rear end setup they run, I don't know. As for beating them now, there was one a few weeks ago that did pretty damn well, but he was pretty modded as well so it was all good, we had fun and talked for awhile after we ran.

In the end I really liked the Holden, fantastic looking and performing car but not a GTO, sadly Pontiac took the easy route and hopefully they learned from that and will bring the Goat back as it was meant to be.

ORIGINAL: The_Third_Horseman

There was a guy at the track last night with an 06 GTO MT6 and the guys quickest out of 5 runs was a 14.2. I couldnt believe it. I thought that even if a complete moron was driving that car it would still be in the mid 13's at least. And there was another guy there with a moded out 06 GTO running 13.7. What a freaking overated piece of crap. The cars are ugly as hell and a total piece of garbage.




That's a bit harsh, I have seen stockers go 13.4's which granted isn't what you'd expect either but garbage? You really think that way?

ORIGINAL: The_Third_Horseman

There was a guy at the track last night with an 06 GTO MT6 and the guys quickest out of 5 runs was a 14.2. I couldnt believe it. I thought that even if a complete moron was driving that car it would still be in the mid 13's at least. And there was another guy there with a moded out 06 GTO running 13.7. What a freaking overated piece of crap. The cars are ugly as hell and a total piece of garbage.




yeah there was a terminator running 9.22's in the 1/8 in a video awhile back... lets blame it on the car and call it an over rated piece of trash!!! YEAH!!

ORIGINAL: viking396

ORIGINAL: S8ER01Z

Last I checked a Vert GT loaded was $31,280 MSRP... if thats not close I have no idea what is. You are correct though it is a few thousand more..not hundreds...apologize for that.

As for the TBSS... I was merely stating that the BEST AWD time is still less than the best 2WD time...so 2WD > AWD as previously stated.


A convertable Vette costs more than the Vette coupe, just like a convertable Mustang GT costs more than a Mustang GT coupe so since they didn't make a convertable GTO, not sure why you would compare them? Might as well start comparing Mustang's to SUV's... :D


Option for option yes the vert is more.......but a well equipped coupe is more than a limited equipped vert..

Hello guys. While reading these threads i can't believe some of the statements made. First, I have always loved mustangs. I had four and i had a T/a. Please don't get me wrong, because I like the debate that goes on between the two cars,(GTO and Mustang)but while searching for my new car I test drove a couple of cars. The mustang was the first I drove.It did nothing for me. The interior reminded me of a ford taurus I use to drive. I then looked for the after market and how much power could be gained N/A. I then went to the track to see what times everyone was getting with the stangs. With all the bolt ons, I saw one run 12.8 @106. Sorry but this was not impressive, because i estimated he spent a total of$2600 to $3000 on mods, including labor. I then began to look into the GTO. I thought it was an ugly car at first, but i began to look beyond the looks. The enginehas so much potential, alot more than the GT n/a. I listened to how everyone said the GTO was so slow, but found it amazing how the guys on SVTperformance talk very high about the GTO and most of these guys have Terminators. I have run 12.7@109 with just drag tries. I am not the only GTO who has ran 12s with just tires. The weight difference is not that big of a deal. I read these articles and most of the guys who talk bad about the GTOs, have never owned any other muscle car, but the guys who have a substantial amount of work done to their GTs,give the GTO its just do.
The Mustang has always been the car you could buy heads, cam, and so on and get good times.In 96, that changed.Yes the new mustang has the after market, but the potential of the GTO is incredible. It may cost more money, butAs stated before, I have a total of $3800 tied into my car and with tires I am now running 11.9 @116.(before that time I ran 12.4)I will never talk bad about another man's vehicle, because i am not the fastest car out there. I am not finished, Iam addingNitrous tomy car next month. The bottom line is personal preference. I just feelFord is always behind the eight ball with power. Which means the buyer has to spend thousands of dollars on modifictions. They got theCobra, Mach1 and GT-500 wright, but why did'nt they put the Mach1's engine in the GT?As far as looks, I get consistentcompliments on my GTO, because like many other people, I added wheels and otherparts. The car idles like a 69 Goat and I still haven't touched my heads yet. Any non-believers can call Harris speed works and they can tell you my what I just told you.

ORIGINAL: fatman

Hello guys. While reading these threads i can't believe some of the statements made. First, I have always loved mustangs. I had four and i had a T/a. Please don't get me wrong, because I like the debate that goes on between the two cars,(GTO and Mustang)but while searching for my new car I test drove a couple of cars. The mustang was the first I drove.It did nothing for me. The interior reminded me of a ford taurus I use to drive. I then looked for the after market and how much power could be gained N/A. I then went to the track to see what times everyone was getting with the stangs. With all the bolt ons, I saw one run 12.8 @106. Sorry but this was not impressive, because i estimated he spent a total of$2600 to $3000 on mods, including labor. I then began to look into the GTO. I thought it was an ugly car at first, but i began to look beyond the looks. The enginehas so much potential, alot more than the GT n/a. I listened to how everyone said the GTO was so slow, but found it amazing how the guys on SVTperformance talk very high about the GTO and most of these guys have Terminators. I have run 12.7@109 with just drag tries. I am not the only GTO who has ran 12s with just tires. The weight difference is not that big of a deal. I read these articles and most of the guys who talk bad about the GTOs, have never owned any other muscle car, but the guys who have a substantial amount of work done to their GTs,give the GTO its just do.
The Mustang has always been the car you could buy heads, cam, and so on and get good times.In 96, that changed.Yes the new mustang has the after market, but the potential of the GTO is incredible. It may cost more money, butAs stated before, I have a total of $3800 tied into my car and with tires I am now running 11.9 @116.(before that time I ran 12.4)I will never talk bad about another man's vehicle, because i am not the fastest car out there. I am not finished, Iam addingNitrous tomy car next month. The bottom line is personal preference. I just feelFord is always behind the eight ball with power. Which means the buyer has to spend thousands of dollars on modifictions. They got theCobra, Mach1 and GT-500 wright, but why did'nt they put the Mach1's engine in the GT?As far as looks, I get consistentcompliments on my GTO, because like many other people, I added wheels and otherparts. The car idles like a 69 Goat and I still haven't touched my heads yet. Any non-believers can call Harris speed works and they can tell you my what I just told you.


You saw one run 12.8@106 and generaalized every Mustang into that basket which proves you know very little about Ford powerplants, the rest of your post wasn't worth reading after that so if something worthwhuile was said, your initial ignorance killed it.

ORIGINAL: viking396

ORIGINAL: fatman

Hello guys. While reading these threads i can't believe some of the statements made. First, I have always loved mustangs. I had four and i had a T/a. Please don't get me wrong, because I like the debate that goes on between the two cars,(GTO and Mustang)but while searching for my new car I test drove a couple of cars. The mustang was the first I drove.It did nothing for me. The interior reminded me of a ford taurus I use to drive. I then looked for the after market and how much power could be gained N/A. I then went to the track to see what times everyone was getting with the stangs. With all the bolt ons, I saw one run 12.8 @106. Sorry but this was not impressive, because i estimated he spent a total of$2600 to $3000 on mods, including labor. I then began to look into the GTO. I thought it was an ugly car at first, but i began to look beyond the looks. The enginehas so much potential, alot more than the GT n/a. I listened to how everyone said the GTO was so slow, but found it amazing how the guys on SVTperformance talk very high about the GTO and most of these guys have Terminators. I have run 12.7@109 with just drag tries. I am not the only GTO who has ran 12s with just tires. The weight difference is not that big of a deal. I read these articles and most of the guys who talk bad about the GTOs, have never owned any other muscle car, but the guys who have a substantial amount of work done to their GTs,give the GTO its just do.
The Mustang has always been the car you could buy heads, cam, and so on and get good times.In 96, that changed.Yes the new mustang has the after market, but the potential of the GTO is incredible. It may cost more money, butAs stated before, I have a total of $3800 tied into my car and with tires I am now running 11.9 @116.(before that time I ran 12.4)I will never talk bad about another man's vehicle, because i am not the fastest car out there. I am not finished, Iam addingNitrous tomy car next month. The bottom line is personal preference. I just feelFord is always behind the eight ball with power. Which means the buyer has to spend thousands of dollars on modifictions. They got theCobra, Mach1 and GT-500 wright, but why did'nt they put the Mach1's engine in the GT?As far as looks, I get consistentcompliments on my GTO, because like many other people, I added wheels and otherparts. The car idles like a 69 Goat and I still haven't touched my heads yet. Any non-believers can call Harris speed works and they can tell you my what I just told you.


You saw one run 12.8@106 and generaalized every Mustang into that basket which proves you know very little about Ford powerplants, the rest of your post wasn't worth reading after that so if something worthwhuile was said, your initial ignorance killed it.


You know something....Every single one of your posts is to a degree a personal attack on someone if they don't agree with your beliefs.....Why don't you chill out.....Yes, a Full bolt-on S197 with tires is at best a mid 12 second car......Myself and I'm sure many others in here will say thats a fair statement.................So why are you contesting it? Did you run low 12's-high 11's N/A? If not, then you have no business slamming anybody...

ORIGINAL: C6 VETTE

ORIGINAL: viking396

ORIGINAL: fatman

Hello guys. While reading these threads i can't believe some of the statements made. First, I have always loved mustangs. I had four and i had a T/a. Please don't get me wrong, because I like the debate that goes on between the two cars,(GTO and Mustang)but while searching for my new car I test drove a couple of cars. The mustang was the first I drove.It did nothing for me. The interior reminded me of a ford taurus I use to drive. I then looked for the after market and how much power could be gained N/A. I then went to the track to see what times everyone was getting with the stangs. With all the bolt ons, I saw one run 12.8 @106. Sorry but this was not impressive, because i estimated he spent a total of$2600 to $3000 on mods, including labor. I then began to look into the GTO. I thought it was an ugly car at first, but i began to look beyond the looks. The enginehas so much potential, alot more than the GT n/a. I listened to how everyone said the GTO was so slow, but found it amazing how the guys on SVTperformance talk very high about the GTO and most of these guys have Terminators. I have run 12.7@109 with just drag tries. I am not the only GTO who has ran 12s with just tires. The weight difference is not that big of a deal. I read these articles and most of the guys who talk bad about the GTOs, have never owned any other muscle car, but the guys who have a substantial amount of work done to their GTs,give the GTO its just do.
The Mustang has always been the car you could buy heads, cam, and so on and get good times.In 96, that changed.Yes the new mustang has the after market, but the potential of the GTO is incredible. It may cost more money, butAs stated before, I have a total of $3800 tied into my car and with tires I am now running 11.9 @116.(before that time I ran 12.4)I will never talk bad about another man's vehicle, because i am not the fastest car out there. I am not finished, Iam addingNitrous tomy car next month. The bottom line is personal preference. I just feelFord is always behind the eight ball with power. Which means the buyer has to spend thousands of dollars on modifictions. They got theCobra, Mach1 and GT-500 wright, but why did'nt they put the Mach1's engine in the GT?As far as looks, I get consistentcompliments on my GTO, because like many other people, I added wheels and otherparts. The car idles like a 69 Goat and I still haven't touched my heads yet. Any non-believers can call Harris speed works and they can tell you my what I just told you.


You saw one run 12.8@106 and generaalized every Mustang into that basket which proves you know very little about Ford powerplants, the rest of your post wasn't worth reading after that so if something worthwhuile was said, your initial ignorance killed it.


You know something....Every single one of your posts is to a degree a personal attack on someone if they don't agree with your beliefs.....Why don't you chill out.....Yes, a Full bolt-on S197 with tires is at best a mid 12 second car......Myself and I'm sure many others in here will say thats a fair statement.................So why are you contesting it? Did you run low 12's-high 11's N/A? If not, then you have no business slamming anybody...


Tell you what, I am who I am and when someone posts bullsh*t, and he was posting ignorant bulls*t, I have no issue calling the person out on it (show me any personal attacks outside this stupid thread). If you don't like what I have to say you have the freedom and I know this might shock some people but you don't have to read it, or reply to it for that matter. I don't visit GTO forums to knock their cars, I don't visit Vette forums to knock their cars either, I'm sick of the "I looked at the Mustang but heres why I think it basically sucks" commentary. You know what, who cares? If you bought something else go to their forum and have a field day, coming to a forum where people chose the Mustang isn't going to get you a lot of thanks for sharing replies.

So, to insure my comment is understood one Mustang does notall other Mustang's make. I don't give a good damn how much can be done to the LS1 vs a 4.6, a 5.4 or a 5.0. If I did care I would seek out the LS1 forum and see what people say. So tell you what, don't like what I have to say, don't tell me how I should post, if the forum moderators feel I'm out of line they will let me know.

And YES, I have owned plenty of N/A Mustang's that ran 12's (my first one cost less than 1100 to build, engine, heads, the works)and a few others that ran N/A low 11's and a few FI in the 10's with far less cubic inches than LS1'setc, if people would like to do a dollar for dollar comparison of what it would take to get various GM and Ford cars into the 12's, 11's and 10's then start the debate but this GTO debate has gotten so old it lost any value it had and should probably be killed.

Fair enough, he made some negative statments about the new GT's......This is the S/S section which involves Mustangs versus other makes,I think someone with the make in question should have the chance for a rebuttal,soI guess you get irritatedthat someone with a make other than a Mustang is out of line for posting their opinion , because this section would be dead otherwise............Hell,he did'nt even quote you so I don't see why you are all upset!!!


I was talking solely about the S197.....The GTO guy is pretty much dead on. A Full bolt-on N/AS197 is a mid to high12second car at best......I don't know of too many ppl that doH/C's/I on modular engines....they usually go the FI route..So how is his post ignorant......

ORIGINAL: C6 VETTE

Fair enough, he made some negative statments about the new GT's......This is the S/S section which involves Mustangs versus other makes,I think someone with the make in question should have the chance for a rebuttal,soI guess you get irritatedthat someone with a make other than a Mustang is out of line for posting their opinion , because this section would be dead otherwise............Hell,he did'nt even quote you so I don't see why you are all upset!!!


I was talking solely about the S197.....The GTO guy is pretty much dead on. A Full bolt-on N/AS197 is a mid to high12second car at best......I don't know of too many ppl that doH/C's/I on modular engines....they usually go the FI route..So how is his post ignorant......


You make a valid point about this being a forum for posting about other cars as well, but its about other cars that you raced not bought. This sub-forum would be more on topic if people stopped discussing why they bought what car and why they didn't buy a Mustang and talked about what they raced instead..There is an off topic forum for discussing whatever people want. You may think he was spot on but I don't think he was, I feel his ignorance was obvious, I just re-read his post and still feel that way, maybe I'm wrong, I don't think so.

ORIGINAL: viking396

ORIGINAL: C6 VETTE

Fair enough, he made some negative statments about the new GT's......This is the S/S section which involves Mustangs versus other makes,I think someone with the make in question should have the chance for a rebuttal,soI guess you get irritatedthat someone with a make other than a Mustang is out of line for posting their opinion , because this section would be dead otherwise............Hell,he did'nt even quote you so I don't see why you are all upset!!!


I was talking solely about the S197.....The GTO guy is pretty much dead on. A Full bolt-on N/AS197 is a mid to high12second car at best......I don't know of too many ppl that doH/C's/I on modular engines....they usually go the FI route..So how is his post ignorant......


You make a valid point about this being a forum for posting about other cars as well, but its about other cars that you raced not bought. This sub-forum would be more on topic if people stopped discussing why they bought what car and why they didn't buy a Mustang and talked about what they raced instead..There is an off topic forum for discussing whatever people want. You may think he was spot on but I don't think he was, I feel his ignorance was obvious, I just re-read his post and still feel that way, maybe I'm wrong, I don't think so.


I agree, but you have been here long enough to know after a few pages it seems the discussions have nothing to do with the OP's original topic...lol

ORIGINAL: C6 VETTE

ORIGINAL: viking396

ORIGINAL: C6 VETTE

Fair enough, he made some negative statments about the new GT's......This is the S/S section which involves Mustangs versus other makes,I think someone with the make in question should have the chance for a rebuttal,soI guess you get irritatedthat someone with a make other than a Mustang is out of line for posting their opinion , because this section would be dead otherwise............Hell,he did'nt even quote you so I don't see why you are all upset!!!


I was talking solely about the S197.....The GTO guy is pretty much dead on. A Full bolt-on N/AS197 is a mid to high12second car at best......I don't know of too many ppl that doH/C's/I on modular engines....they usually go the FI route..So how is his post ignorant......


You make a valid point about this being a forum for posting about other cars as well, but its about other cars that you raced not bought. This sub-forum would be more on topic if people stopped discussing why they bought what car and why they didn't buy a Mustang and talked about what they raced instead..There is an off topic forum for discussing whatever people want. You may think he was spot on but I don't think he was, I feel his ignorance was obvious, I just re-read his post and still feel that way, maybe I'm wrong, I don't think so.


I agree, but you have been here long enough to know after a few pages it seems the discussions have nothing to do with the OP's original topic...lol


Agreed 100% :D

[sm=lockeddance.gif]FTW

Hello guys - a spirited debate!

I owned an 05 GTO 6-speed LS2 for about 6 months or so maybe more. Anyway, it stickered for about 33k and I paid around 27k after incentives.The GTO is a good value when you look at what they can be bought for.

As for how I liked the GTO. It was a nice daily driver. Very comfortable, nice interior with the exception of slow power seat motors and cheap HVAC knobs.

I added headers and a tune and a GMM ripper shifter. My car went a best of 13.23 with the mods. Certainly faster than my GT before my blower was added, but I've seen stock GT's running mid-high 13's at my strip, so for whatever that is worth.

Itraded the GTO formy GT when I was given a company car. The GTO is a driver not a toy in my opinion. It's not a car I cared to throw any more money at or try to preserve in anyway as a toy. The character of the GTO just does not lend itself to cruise nights, and high dollar modifications.

The GT is all character. It's fun to look at, fun to be in, andfun to modify. Sure a stock LS2 GTO isfaster, but it just does not exude any of the qualities I want in a toy car.Gears, tune, CAI and you'll have stock GTO performance or there about.

People can talk all they want aboutstock for stock the GTO is faster.It means nothing to me. I bought the GT to build a hot rod. From that standpoint, I think the GT has more to offer. Much better looks that pay homage to it's legacy inside and out, and a great aftermarket.

After the blower, all I can say is LSwhat?

EXACTLY!Can you say "boost"?:D

ORIGINAL: Norse1974

EXACTLY!Can you say "boost"?:D
I dont know why everyone doesn't say it;)

ORIGINAL: bluebeastsrt

ORIGINAL: Norse1974

EXACTLY!Can you say "boost"?:D
I dont know why everyone doesn't say it;)
Because I can hang without it.;)

ORIGINAL: JD1969

ORIGINAL: bluebeastsrt

ORIGINAL: Norse1974

EXACTLY!Can you say "boost"?:D
I dont know why everyone doesn't say it;)
Because I can hang without it.;)

Oh sure JD.......but just think about how much quicker you'd hang WITH it.[8D]

ORIGINAL: ThisBlood147

ORIGINAL: JD1969

ORIGINAL: bluebeastsrt

ORIGINAL: Norse1974

EXACTLY!Can you say "boost"?:D
I dont know why everyone doesn't say it;)
Because I can hang without it.;)

Oh sure JD.......but just think about how much quicker you'd hang WITH it.[8D]
EXACTLY!!!!!!!:D

JD has probably the best position as a mod.... an arguement breaks out....

JD: you're both slow... shut up


end of story...

[8D]

Hey Viking 396, Sorry it i struck a nerve on my last post. as stated before, I love Mustangs, i come to this site and other forums toget information on other cars, because some people I speak to are looking for a variety of muscle cars. Most of my friends come to me because, I usually have a vast amount of information on other makes. I did not make my judgement on one track vist, I used a particular time, because this was the norm. There are other cars out there besides the GTO, Mustang and so on, I just like to know what the competition looks like and how they are evolving. I have racedfor almost 20 yearsand have always been fascinated with a car that can be made to run fast. Back in the day my buddy had a turbo Omni that use to out run many of the cars during street racing. He added more boost and other things and was running low 14s. That was fast for the late 80s. The other information I gave was a rant, because of the frustration with Ford. You should really keep an open mind and be willing to explore other Avenues, because last I checked, ignorance is when you fail to investigate the opposing team!!

ORIGINAL: angcobra

I might have bought one of those LS2 GTOs but I could not figure out how to get the top down.


Sawzall. DUH!

ORIGINAL: viking396

ORIGINAL: S8ER01Z

Several things here...a loaded GT is damn close to costing what a LOADED GTO costs (since they all came 'loaded')... and when they first announced the GTO was being imported here they also said it would only be for a certain time table (news flash...pontiac didn't pull the plug on the GTO..it was PLANNED from the begining to only bring so many over here for a set number of years).

The GTO before automatic transmission and gas guzzler tax to go with that option (1,300!!) or 700 something for the manual the GTO STARTED at over 31k, out here anyway I bought my loaded 2006 GT for $27,500 so in my view, not close, maybe 100 bucks or so a month difference is close to some people, for many, it’s a the difference between buying or not.

News flash, the car was not planned to be phased out in 2006, if it were people wouldn't have been shocked that it had been discontinued. The GTO never hit the company's 18,000 annual U.S. sales target. With no sign that the U.S. coupe market would revive, and with GTO sales going downhill, as well as new federal regulations kicking in that would add costs to the car, GM cancelled the GTO after three model years. The last cars likely will be found through summer on dealer lots.
. Funny how facts can ruin it for some people.

ORIGINAL: S8ER01Z

Fail to see how it's better built? Ever been in one?The S197 vs a GTO is a blow out... trust me I spent hours car shopping with my friend who bought an 06 GTO over an 06 GT and he is one picky SOB. This isn't a pontiac FYI..its a holden and its much better than anything pontiac has put out on this side of the pond. No matter what pontiac experience you had (owning, driving, whatever) it doesn't apply here because it's not a pontiac built car. Blind hate / loyalty gets you nowhere.


Quality wise I have been in a few, no they didn't impress me quality wise but they were cool to look at. Cool looking does not a quality car make. Your friends pickyness does not a general public make. How many Mustang GT's are sold each year, I'll choose to look at the overall numbers rather than your friends opinion thanks. And yes, it is a Pontiac, Holden is a division OF GM and GM slapped a Pontiac plate on it, so, it’s a Pontiac. We can debate it till the cows come home, Holden may have built it but I digress, I made my point.

As for build quality, J.D. Powers gave the GTO a score of 2 out of 5, in my view they didn’t get blown away by the cool look anymore than I did. I don’t have blind hate or loyalty, I have sued Ford over a car in the past, the last thing I can be called is a fanboy. By the way, the Mustang got a 3 out of 5, not exactly something to brag about but better than a same year 2006 GTO, sorry.

Here is what J.D. Powers looks at to come to that stellar rating.
“Overall Quality - Manufacturing: Taken from the Initial Quality Study (IQS), which looks at owner-reported problems in the first 90 days of new-vehicle ownership, this score is based on problems that have caused a complete breakdown or malfunction of any component, feature, or item (i.e., components that stop working or trim pieces that break or come loose).”


****! I really hate getting into GTO arguments, but WTF dude? How many times has it been said? The car was slated for 3 years only from the word go. They dropped the ENTIRE PLATFORM WORLDWIDE at the end of '06. You have been so quick to ask where people get their information from. Where do you get yours? Did the Ford dealer tell you that while he was trying to sell you a Mustang?

ORIGINAL: fatman

Hey Viking 396, Sorry it i struck a nerve on my last post. as stated before, I love Mustangs, i come to this site and other forums toget information on other cars, because some people I speak to are looking for a variety of muscle cars. Most of my friends come to me because, I usually have a vast amount of information on other makes. I did not make my judgement on one track vist, I used a particular time, because this was the norm. There are other cars out there besides the GTO, Mustang and so on, I just like to know what the competition looks like and how they are evolving. I have racedfor almost 20 yearsand have always been fascinated with a car that can be made to run fast. Back in the day my buddy had a turbo Omni that use to out run many of the cars during street racing. He added more boost and other things and was running low 14s. That was fast for the late 80s. The other information I gave was a rant, because of the frustration with Ford. You should really keep an open mind and be willing to explore other Avenues, because last I checked, ignorance is when you fail to investigate the opposing team!!


We probably would agree much more than you think, I'm an old fart and remember the GLH very well and I have a very open mind, heck I almost bought a GLH in '85 but went with an LX 5.0 Coupe instead. The way you worded your post didn't really look for an open mind in my view. I dissagree still with the crux of it but do agree ignorance is also not knowing the other team, trust me, I study a lot. I think had we been at a cruize night we would have had a few laughs over something like this.

Have a very good weekend. ;)

ORIGINAL: Sidewayz6.0

ORIGINAL: viking396

ORIGINAL: S8ER01Z

Several things here...a loaded GT is damn close to costing what a LOADED GTO costs (since they all came 'loaded')... and when they first announced the GTO was being imported here they also said it would only be for a certain time table (news flash...pontiac didn't pull the plug on the GTO..it was PLANNED from the begining to only bring so many over here for a set number of years).

The GTO before automatic transmission and gas guzzler tax to go with that option (1,300!!) or 700 something for the manual the GTO STARTED at over 31k, out here anyway I bought my loaded 2006 GT for $27,500 so in my view, not close, maybe 100 bucks or so a month difference is close to some people, for many, it’s a the difference between buying or not.

News flash, the car was not planned to be phased out in 2006, if it were people wouldn't have been shocked that it had been discontinued. The GTO never hit the company's 18,000 annual U.S. sales target. With no sign that the U.S. coupe market would revive, and with GTO sales going downhill, as well as new federal regulations kicking in that would add costs to the car, GM cancelled the GTO after three model years. The last cars likely will be found through summer on dealer lots.
. Funny how facts can ruin it for some people.

ORIGINAL: S8ER01Z

Fail to see how it's better built? Ever been in one?The S197 vs a GTO is a blow out... trust me I spent hours car shopping with my friend who bought an 06 GTO over an 06 GT and he is one picky SOB. This isn't a pontiac FYI..its a holden and its much better than anything pontiac has put out on this side of the pond. No matter what pontiac experience you had (owning, driving, whatever) it doesn't apply here because it's not a pontiac built car. Blind hate / loyalty gets you nowhere.


Quality wise I have been in a few, no they didn't impress me quality wise but they were cool to look at. Cool looking does not a quality car make. Your friends pickyness does not a general public make. How many Mustang GT's are sold each year, I'll choose to look at the overall numbers rather than your friends opinion thanks. And yes, it is a Pontiac, Holden is a division OF GM and GM slapped a Pontiac plate on it, so, it’s a Pontiac. We can debate it till the cows come home, Holden may have built it but I digress, I made my point.

As for build quality, J.D. Powers gave the GTO a score of 2 out of 5, in my view they didn’t get blown away by the cool look anymore than I did. I don’t have blind hate or loyalty, I have sued Ford over a car in the past, the last thing I can be called is a fanboy. By the way, the Mustang got a 3 out of 5, not exactly something to brag about but better than a same year 2006 GTO, sorry.

Here is what J.D. Powers looks at to come to that stellar rating.
“Overall Quality - Manufacturing: Taken from the Initial Quality Study (IQS), which looks at owner-reported problems in the first 90 days of new-vehicle ownership, this score is based on problems that have caused a complete breakdown or malfunction of any component, feature, or item (i.e., components that stop working or trim pieces that break or come loose).”


****! I really hate getting into GTO arguments, but WTF dude? How many times has it been said? The car was slated for 3 years only from the word go. They dropped the ENTIRE PLATFORM WORLDWIDE at the end of '06. You have been so quick to ask where people get their information from. Where do you get yours? Did the Ford dealer tell you that while he was trying to sell you a Mustang?



Where in this thread have I asked anybody where they got their information? (I don't really feel like scanning 7 pages, but I don't believe I asked anybody that) :eek:I have been quick to offer my opinion, last time I checked, this was allowed. The GTO was brought here to sell a projected 18,000 units per year, which it never did, originally Pontiac said it would offer the car for three years and yet people have been saying it would go on and Pontiac had to issue a press release saying it was confirming the fact it would be discontinued in 2006. Perhaps if they actually sold close to the number, the changes needed to make a 2007 model year run would have been worth it?

No Ford didn’t tell me this, more than a few guys I know who work for Pontiac did and so did Autoweek and many other websites, if they're wrong write them and bitch about it, but then maybe I should have asked Ford, maybe then I would have gotten more accurate information. :eek:Do we really care, was it really a GTO or just a cool car saddled with the wrong name, right now, don't care anymore.

Thanks Viking, we will agree to disagree, but will continue to study the competition. You also enjoy the rest of your weekend.

I honestly don't see how the latest GTO is any different from the earlier ones. People say they ruined the GTO name because it looks like a Grand Prix. Every past GTO was another car with a huge motor and some GTO badges. LeMans, Tempest, Ventura. It's always looked like something else.

Yea right, this time it happened to look like a sunbird.

ORIGINAL: bluebeastsrt

Yea right, this time it happened to look like a sunbird.


LOL...Says the guy with the Turbo Neon.

ORIGINAL: Sidewayz6.0

ORIGINAL: angcobra

I might have bought one of those LS2 GTOs but I could not figure out how to get the top down.


Sawzall. DUH!



And I thought all of my posts went without notice.

Holy e-fight resurrection, batmat!

ORIGINAL: Sidewayz6.0

I honestly don't see how the latest GTO is any different from the earlier ones. People say they ruined the GTO name because it looks like a Grand Prix. Every past GTO was another car with a huge motor and some GTO badges. LeMans, Tempest, Ventura. It's always looked like something else.


The original GTO was an incarnation of a model, the models you mentioned and the GTO was the top model, the GTO in this e-debate was never intended to end up as a GTO. Pontiac needed a name and took the easy way (IMHO) to get a car out to market. I still think its a great car but never felt it was a GTO, we agree to disagree. :D

ORIGINAL: Sidewayz6.0

ORIGINAL: bluebeastsrt

Yea right, this time it happened to look like a sunbird.


LOL...Says the guy with the Turbo Neon.


LOL it was a compliment. Sunbirds are CUTE little cars:D