I used to not like GTO's until i got to drive one. They are FAST. I want to get a 06 GTO with the SAP kit on it since they are horribly cheap going for 25k for a brand new 06 with 9-15 miles.
The original GTO was an incarnation of a model, the models you mentioned and the GTO was the top model, the GTO in this e-debate was never intended to end up as a GTO. Pontiac needed a name and took the easy way (IMHO) to get a car out to market. I still think its a great car but never felt it was a GTO, we agree to disagree.
Pontiac probably figured the same thing as Ford....slap a name on it and people will buy it, no matter how ****ty it is. Just look at the Mustang. Been out powered since 1993 and people still want it, mainly the V6 for crying out loud. Why? Because it's a Mustang and most people are ignorant, or simply don't care about performance.
Obviously Ford is leading the way in luring teenage girls to their first cars. The V6 Mustang outsells everything EVAAAAAAR!
You think the S197 would sell nearly as much if it was labeled as a Probe? People are brand loyal and brand blind. My Mustang buddies are the only people on earth who'd spend twice the money to make their car run as fast as mine did nearly stock....just because they're driving a Mustang.
My Mustang buddies are the only people on earth who'd spend twice the money to make their car run as fast as mine did nearly stock....just because they're driving a Mustang.
So ANYONE who does not buy the absolute CHEAPEST car they can find, and make it fast for the CHEAPEST total amount whatsoever, is blindly brand loyal?
Have you ever thought that maybe someone likes Mustangs? Why buy a LS1 when you can buy a fox shell, and mod the hell out of a 302 for less?
I'm just making a point that you're subjecting alot of people to the 'blindly loyal' group when you try to make enveloping comments such as that one.
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Hopefully running by the weekend. Gonna run her good too!
Pontiac probably figured the same thing as Ford....slap a name on it and people will buy it, no matter how ****ty it is. Just look at the Mustang. Been out powered since 1993 and people still want it, mainly the V6 for crying out loud. Why? Because it's a Mustang and most people are ignorant, or simply don't care about performance.
Obviously Ford is leading the way in luring teenage girls to their first cars. The V6 Mustang outsells everything EVAAAAAAR!
You think the S197 would sell nearly as much if it was labeled as a Probe? People are brand loyal and brand blind. My Mustang buddies are the only people on earth who'd spend twice the money to make their car run as fast as mine did nearly stock....just because they're driving a Mustang.
S197s are Mustangs and have styling of previous generation Mustangs, so labelling it a Probe would make no sense, since it isn't styled after a Probe. The GTO isn't styled after previous generation GTOs and I think this turned off a lot of potential buyers. You seem to be under the impression that the sole reason for people buying the Mustang is speed. This is definately not the case, as you can attest from your comment of how many V-6 Mustangs there are out there. Many people find the S197s aesthetically more pleasing than the GTO. Ford realized the importance in that. Pontiac didn't. End result: S197 sales flourish, and the GTO is dead, just like the Camaro. Maybe when/if the new Camaro comes out GM will get the hint and not make the same mistakes over again.
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'06 GT, manual Saleen SC (Brenspeed Stage 2) FRPP GTA's BMR LCA's & rear sway bar Nitto 555's on back
Team MF Member #007 Posts: 9928
Joined: 1/5/2004 From: My moms uterus Status: offline
Personally, I think this whole retro thing is stupid. Why are we trying to live in the '60's? I'll take a new car, that looks like a current model year, thank you.
I'm not sure what all of these manufacturers are thinking lately? The lease is up in a couple of months on my company car, and I don't know what the hell I want. I really don't like anything.
I think most of the car companies are afraid to take risks. Most of them are on the bubble and can't afford a huge flop. It's just easier to say people loved the 69 Camaro or the 67 Mustang design. Let's just spit something close to that design out and people will love it. A lot of industries are doing this. Have you noticed that every movie made in the past 30 years has been remade in the past few years. Same difference.
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Roll racing isn''t racing. Its just 2 retards speeding together!
Team MF Member #007 Posts: 9928
Joined: 1/5/2004 From: My moms uterus Status: offline
Oh, I see where they're going with it. I just think it's stupid. I really don't know what happened to the designers lately either. There are some FUGLY ass cars on the road at the moment.
i dont think the GTO's are all that. ive seen them get there ass handed to them a few times. But i was involved in this one race with a Vortech s/c GTO and that thing was fast, it pulled pretty hard in 3rd
in the realm of STOCK cars, a Z06, or something in the 11's for example, is nearly untouchable *perhaps is* when compared to any other STOCK car in the world.
When you throw modded cars into the equation though, things get crazy. Sure, 11's is fast, but it's nowhere near the 'godly state' it was when you were just considering stock vehicles.
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Hopefully running by the weekend. Gonna run her good too!
in the realm of STOCK cars, a Z06, or something in the 11's for example, is nearly untouchable *perhaps is* when compared to any other STOCK car in the world.
When you throw modded cars into the equation though, things get crazy. Sure, 11's is fast, but it's nowhere near the 'godly state' it was when you were just considering stock vehicles.
A stock Bugatti Veyron runs in the low 10's.
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'06 GT, manual Saleen SC (Brenspeed Stage 2) FRPP GTA's BMR LCA's & rear sway bar Nitto 555's on back
My Mustang buddies are the only people on earth who'd spend twice the money to make their car run as fast as mine did nearly stock....just because they're driving a Mustang.
So ANYONE who does not buy the absolute CHEAPEST car they can find, and make it fast for the CHEAPEST total amount whatsoever, is blindly brand loyal?
Have you ever thought that maybe someone likes Mustangs? Why buy a LS1 when you can buy a fox shell, and mod the hell out of a 302 for less?
I'm just making a point that you're subjecting alot of people to the 'blindly loyal' group when you try to make enveloping comments such as that one.
Everyone I know that owns a Mustang owns it because they want to make it fast. Maybe you know people that buy pony cars just to drive....if I were in that scenario, I'd buy a nice sedan and cruise in it, not a pony car.
Let's not get into the Foxbody vs f-body debate...as cheap as the LSx cars are going for nowadays, it's not really as much of a challenge arguing that debate as it was before. Although I did have a local guy here in town finally get his 4th motor done two weeks ago. Took it to the track last Thursday and laid down some nice 7.5x's passes on the gas. Not bad for a fully suspended, 331 car, on the gas and mainly full weight....Color me impressed.
Everyone I know that owns a Mustang owns it because they want to make it fast. Maybe you know people that buy pony cars just to drive....if I were in that scenario, I'd buy a nice sedan and cruise in it, not a pony car.
That's the problem that I see in your logic.
Just because someone wants to make a Mustang fast *which will cost more money than a LS1* you do not understand them? You can't fault, or even begin to pass judgement on someone because they do not choose the same get fast route as everyone else *you*.
It's like people that make minivans fast, or civics, or whatever, it's their preference.
And so what, does it matter if someone buys a Mustang GT just to drive it? They're fun to drive. Decent reliability, and the fact that it is a 'Mustang' brings enjoyment to alot of people, myself included.
As well, anyone that has an older or classic Mustang that does not make it super fast, are they also confusing? Our '72 is by NO means quick, but it's fun to drive. Sure it eats gas, is not too reliable etc... but does that mean you don't understand the logic behind driving it for fun?
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Hopefully running by the weekend. Gonna run her good too!
Everyone I know that owns a Mustang owns it because they want to make it fast. Maybe you know people that buy pony cars just to drive....if I were in that scenario, I'd buy a nice sedan and cruise in it, not a pony car.
That's the problem that I see in your logic.
Just because someone wants to make a Mustang fast *which will cost more money than a LS1* you do not understand them? You can't fault, or even begin to pass judgement on someone because they do not choose the same get fast route as everyone else *you*.
It's like people that make minivans fast, or civics, or whatever, it's their preference.
And so what, does it matter if someone buys a Mustang GT just to drive it? They're fun to drive. Decent reliability, and the fact that it is a 'Mustang' brings enjoyment to alot of people, myself included.
As well, anyone that has an older or classic Mustang that does not make it super fast, are they also confusing? Our '72 is by NO means quick, but it's fun to drive. Sure it eats gas, is not too reliable etc... but does that mean you don't understand the logic behind driving it for fun?
Well said, 72 Mach. I've learned to accept 98LS1 for who he is. He is close minded and doesn't like mustangs in spite of the fact that stock vs. stock there are mustangs that beat or equal the LS1 f-bod. You will never make him understand or agree that ford ever built a decent car... he's as much of a close-minded LSx nutswinger as I am a Ford fanboy. It's ok. Different people with different opinions make the world go 'round.
I'm not trying to make him change his mind. I just fail to see why he thinks that unless its THE cheapest, fastest, and by his standards, "best" path to HP,... that it isnt worth his or anyone elses time.
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Hopefully running by the weekend. Gonna run her good too!
Printable Version
RE: Ls2 GTO's are dogs.. - 
It's ok. Different people with different opinions make the world go 'round. 