ORIGINAL: viking396 MSRP for a loaded '06 GT vs MSRP for an '06 GTO isn't even close, the GTO costs way more however since they sold like crap, and sorry but that's the cold hard truth they can now be had for MUCH less than MSRP. Hence the reason Pontiac isn't offering it for sale anymore. I fail to see how it's better built? Pontiac isn't exactly known for making the best built cars, the GTO isn't any better, neither is the Mustang but if I were to compare the two, the Pontiac's I've owned in the past weren't what I would brag about, I've owned 13 Ford's over the years, none of them were problems, the few GM cars I've owned, are the very reason why I'll never own one again.
Several things here...a loaded GT is damn close to costing what a LOADED GTO costs (since they all came 'loaded')... and when they first announced the GTO was being imported here they also said it would only be for a certain time table (news flash...pontiac didn't pull the plug on the GTO..it was PLANNED from the begining to only bring so many over here for a set number of years).
Fail to see how it's better built? Ever been in one? The S197 vs a GTO is a blow out... trust me I spent hours car shopping with my friend who bought an 06 GTO over an 06 GT and he is one picky SOB. This isn't a pontiac FYI..its a holden and its much better than anything pontiac has put out on this side of the pond. No matter what pontiac experience you had (owning, driving, whatever) it doesn't apply here because it's not a pontiac built car. Blind hate / loyalty gets you nowhere.
I looked at a GTO when I bought my Mustang. The interior is light years beyond the mustang (except for the crappy HVAC knobs). The deciding factor was that it did sticker almost 4K higher than my car and my car has every option aside from the Auto5v (including the somewhat over priced $1200 Shaker 1000 option). I couldn't justify spending the extra dough for similar performance on a car that I thought didn't look as nice as the Mustang. I do wish the Mustang had as nice of an interior as the Goat, oh... and that 6 speed.
Some of you mustang guys are so funny. First: Sleeper05, your stang is very nice, but 12.7 @109 is what i ran stock! Most of you guys are always comparing a bolt on 05 to a stock GTO. Lets go bolt on for bolt on. I have owned 4 Mustangs, one being the 1994. I can remember when everyone complained about how ugly the new mustang was. I had people tell me how slow my car was, because it was a 94 and auto. They were right. That was the first year for the AODE and it was hard to find anyone who knew anything about the computer in the trans. Now, everyone loves the 94-95 stang and there are developments around the computer, but after i built the engine with all Edelbrock components, that car would not get out the 13s. I sold it for a 1997 TA. The car was a beast and after some work, became a low 12 sec car. With that said, I am putting 440rwhp with just a HPE-s cam, headers, pullie and tune. I just ran 12.40 at 115 at Atco on Friday, without drag tires. With tires, I am confident i will run high 11s. Sorry but i won't even run an 05-06 unless it has serious work. When I was stock, i raced 4 new mustangs and it was over before it started. I'm sorry, but I have always been a Mustang guy and I still love them, but Ford is always behind the eight ball. Everything has 300 HP and the turbo guys in other named cars are modifiying and leaving the stangs behind. And talk about the chargers and four doors, but I have seen some charges run 13.8s and that is what a stock stang runs. I am not bashing the Mustang, because I love the friendly comp, but come on a real car guy will call it what it is. Tkae the SRT-8 Jeep. Now that is performance, 13.1 at 103 is what one ran friday night, bone stock. As for looks of the GTO. They are Suspect, that is why I put 18.0 front and 18.5 in rear AZA silver. My car is black with 20 perc tint. I receive complimants all day long on my car and I even have older guys telling thats the way a GTO should sound. I am at Atco everyother week and anticipate being there in the next couple weeks. If anyone wants to see a n/a GTO run 11s be my guess. My tag reads FATMAN
I don't have time to dig into the entire diatribe but for everyone complaining about how ugly the '94 Mustang was they sure sold a sh*tload of them, they out sold all f-bodies combined and did so every year, why because the average buyer didn't think they were ugly, indeed they thought they were rather nice looking. Which might explain why the Mustang was so popular, even during it's off years it sold much better than the GM counterparts.
As for running stock for stock, screw that, I don't understand why people have the need to compare cars that way, run what ya brung, if you win great, if you lose such is life, work on it till you don't. I know the '06 GTO is capable of 12's but having seen a bunch of them in the mid 13's, some on slicks, I'd really love to see a stocker go 12's.
Because thats the way the cars were intended to be from the manufacturer, not to mention stockers out number modified cars by a huge margin.....When comparing a certain car model in general you go by stock performance.......when you compare against a certain individuals car then it's different.......
I compare against the guy I'm going to run against, it's why I never post a "how will I do against so and so" on a forum, I prefer to find out the old fashioned way, stock, great, modified even better. "Because thats the way the cars were intended to be from the manufacturer" Really, manufacturer intentions usually don't jibe with the consumers intent and most people on here I'm sure don't follow manufacturer intent or they wouldn't be racing.
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Vortech V2-SQ Supercharger 60' 1.769 1/8 7.901@90.15 1/4 12.20@113.50 - new best! 10/13/07 Best 1/4 on stock KDWS tires = 12.56@113.3 My 2006 Mustang GT Web Page
ORIGINAL: viking396 they out sold all f-bodies combined and did so every year,
Wrong. As you can clearly see the Fbody actual outsold mustangs a few random years. ;) The margin was 2 to 1 in 1993, and 2001/2002 I believe..the initial ramp up of 4th gen production and the last 2 years of production. The rest of the numbers aren't that bad really.
Several things here...a loaded GT is damn close to costing what a LOADED GTO costs (since they all came 'loaded')... and when they first announced the GTO was being imported here they also said it would only be for a certain time table (news flash...pontiac didn't pull the plug on the GTO..it was PLANNED from the begining to only bring so many over here for a set number of years).
The GTO before automatic transmission and gas guzzler tax to go with that option (1,300!!) or 700 something for the manual the GTO STARTED at over 31k, out here anyway I bought my loaded 2006 GT for $27,500 so in my view, not close, maybe 100 bucks or so a month difference is close to some people, for many, it’s a the difference between buying or not.
News flash, the car was not planned to be phased out in 2006, if it were people wouldn't have been shocked that it had been discontinued. The GTO never hit the company's 18,000 annual U.S. sales target. With no sign that the U.S. coupe market would revive, and with GTO sales going downhill, as well as new federal regulations kicking in that would add costs to the car, GM cancelled the GTO after three model years. The last cars likely will be found through summer on dealer lots. . Funny how facts can ruin it for some people.
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ORIGINAL: S8ER01Z
Fail to see how it's better built? Ever been in one? The S197 vs a GTO is a blow out... trust me I spent hours car shopping with my friend who bought an 06 GTO over an 06 GT and he is one picky SOB. This isn't a pontiac FYI..its a holden and its much better than anything pontiac has put out on this side of the pond. No matter what pontiac experience you had (owning, driving, whatever) it doesn't apply here because it's not a pontiac built car. Blind hate / loyalty gets you nowhere.
Quality wise I have been in a few, no they didn't impress me quality wise but they were cool to look at. Cool looking does not a quality car make. Your friends pickyness does not a general public make. How many Mustang GT's are sold each year, I'll choose to look at the overall numbers rather than your friends opinion thanks. And yes, it is a Pontiac, Holden is a division OF GM and GM slapped a Pontiac plate on it, so, it’s a Pontiac. We can debate it till the cows come home, Holden may have built it but I digress, I made my point.
As for build quality, J.D. Powers gave the GTO a score of 2 out of 5, in my view they didn’t get blown away by the cool look anymore than I did. I don’t have blind hate or loyalty, I have sued Ford over a car in the past, the last thing I can be called is a fanboy. By the way, the Mustang got a 3 out of 5, not exactly something to brag about but better than a same year 2006 GTO, sorry.
Here is what J.D. Powers looks at to come to that stellar rating. “Overall Quality - Manufacturing: Taken from the Initial Quality Study (IQS), which looks at owner-reported problems in the first 90 days of new-vehicle ownership, this score is based on problems that have caused a complete breakdown or malfunction of any component, feature, or item (i.e., components that stop working or trim pieces that break or come loose).”
< Message edited by viking396 -- 5/10/2007 4:30:58 PM >
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Vortech V2-SQ Supercharger 60' 1.769 1/8 7.901@90.15 1/4 12.20@113.50 - new best! 10/13/07 Best 1/4 on stock KDWS tires = 12.56@113.3 My 2006 Mustang GT Web Page
ORIGINAL: viking396 they out sold all f-bodies combined and did so every year,
Wrong. As you can clearly see the Fbody actual outsold mustangs a few random years. ;) The margin was 2 to 1 in 1993, and 2001/2002 I believe..the initial ramp up of 4th gen production and the last 2 years of production. The rest of the numbers aren't that bad really.
LOL... A LS2 will BLOW THE DOORS off that GT (with listed mod's). For that matter, an LS1 will BLOW that GT away. Stick with racing LT1's (13.6-14.0), more in line with your GT.
Viking_ 99% of car owners never track their cars. Very few are modded to the extent of having a 100+hp gain. I said already if you are comparing against a specific owners car then yes................But in general ,makes of cars are judged by their stock performance........You would beat an LS2 Goat, but many others would not. So I guess we should say from now on GT Mustangs are faster than GTO's because Viking beat one....
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2006 Corvette coupe/Corsa sport exhaust w/ mid-pipe 1999 Mustang GT/stock
Hey morbid, I think your the one that needs to catch up on info, get your facts straight before you try to correct my already correct info..thanks.
well I was gonna let this die because it wasn't on topic... but....
I do have my facts straight... my old mustang schooled RWD trailblazer SS's multiple times (2-3 car lengths).... they are high 13 - low 14 second SUV's.
the RWD times you dug up are not stock.... if they are? I guess I had a basic bolt on 12 second 2V
ANY car that goes through the 2WD to AWD transition is faster in the 1/4... so unless the AWD system in the trailblazer weighs more than a volkswagon beetle, and sucks up BHP worse than noobs sucks at posting... then I guess you're right.... the only way AWD < 2WD is
A. the RWD has some sticky ass tires and the AWD has stockers or... B. if they are going from a roll and AWD drivetrain loss takes it's toll
ORIGINAL: viking396 The GTO before automatic transmission and gas guzzler tax to go with that option (1,300!!) or 700 something for the manual the GTO STARTED at over 31k, out here anyway I bought my loaded 2006 GT for $27,500 so in my view, not close, maybe 100 bucks or so a month difference is close to some people, for many, it’s a the difference between buying or not.
Maybe true for some..but a few hundred dollars never stop mustangs from outselling the base Z28 ;)
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News flash, the car was not planned to be phased out in 2006, if it were people wouldn't have been shocked that it had been discontinued. The GTO never hit the company's 18,000 annual U.S. sales target. With no sign that the U.S. coupe market would revive, and with GTO sales going downhill, as well as new federal regulations kicking in that would add costs to the car, GM cancelled the GTO after three model years. The last cars likely will be found through summer on dealer lots. . Funny how facts can ruin it for some people.
Quality wise I have been in a few, no they didn't impress me quality wise but they were cool to look at. Cool looking does not a quality car make. Your friends pickyness does not a general public make. How many Mustang GT's are sold each year, I'll choose to look at the overall numbers rather than your friends opinion thanks. And yes, it is a Pontiac, Holden is a division OF GM and GM slapped a Pontiac plate on it, so, it’s a Pontiac. We can debate it till the cows come home, Holden may have built it but I digress, I made my point.
not sure what your point was...the mustang sells better despite its quality?
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As for build quality, J.D. Powers gave the GTO a score of 2 out of 5, in my view they didn’t get blown away by the cool look anymore than I did. I don’t have blind hate or loyalty, I have sued Ford over a car in the past, the last thing I can be called is a fanboy. By the way, the Mustang got a 3 out of 5, not exactly something to brag about but better than a same year 2006 GTO, sorry.
Here is what I have to say and J.D.... they scored the Pontiac G6 higher than the GTO on their reviews... I owned a 2005 G6 and there is currently a NHSTA investigation on a number of MAJOR steering failures as well as brake issues on that car.. I for one had my steering completely lock up while driving.... I returned the car just over a year after buying it due to major issues that dozens of people were experiencing. Obviously J.D. isn't worth crap when it comes down to it IMHO. http://www.radaronline.com/features/2006/09/jd_power_associates.php
< Message edited by S8ER01Z -- 5/11/2007 10:43:58 AM >
*Sigh*.. you know so much... Look up TonyGXP..if you feel like arguing with his results...have fun. http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f51/TonyGXP/SS028.jpg 13.49 @ 102mph with K&N drop in filter - 2006 TBSS 2WD 12.54 @107+ 1.67 60' CAI Tune, UD pulley, LS1 Fans, 3200 Vig & DR's - 2006 TBSS 2WD
The best AWD time I've seen is 13.7 @ 99mph with K&N.. if you can find better..please by all means.
no I don't feel like looking up one particular person and holding him up on an altar... I take the times I see and round them off as a whole... TBSS's are good for high 13's to low 14's completely stock... which is good for an SUV... really it is... but for you to take the best time ever recorded and compare it to anything is retarted... by your logic 03/04 mach 1's go 13.2 and S197's go 13.4 all the time too
now like I said... your more than welcome to take this up into PM's with me, by all means...
and now let's get back to what the thread was about there tough guy because it's pointless for me to argue with a fanboy... next thing you know gigantor extracto cams and a bazillion shot of N20 will fly into the thread out of nowhere
Viking_ 99% of car owners never track their cars. Very few are modded to the extent of having a 100+hp gain. I said already if you are comparing against a specific owners car then yes................But in general ,makes of cars are judged by their stock performance........You would beat an LS2 Goat, but many others would not. So I guess we should say from now on GT Mustangs are faster than GTO's because Viking beat one....
I never said 99% track their cars, I also never said they modded them. My point is that 99% of the people could care less what Ford, GM, Chrysler etc.. intentions are for the car, they have their own intentions and racing doesn't have to be one of them. I do agree that in general cars are compared by their stock performance, by magazines and the press. On this Mustang forum and other forums I wouldn't agree with you as most people change something so the average car isn't stock.
Also, I haven't exactly been on here saying how I beat ALL LS2 GTO's, I have beaten the ones I’ve met, before and after the SC install but that most definitely doesn't mean I could beat all, nor have I assumed Mustang's can beat all but you certainly seem intent on twisting it.
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Vortech V2-SQ Supercharger 60' 1.769 1/8 7.901@90.15 1/4 12.20@113.50 - new best! 10/13/07 Best 1/4 on stock KDWS tires = 12.56@113.3 My 2006 Mustang GT Web Page
Maybe true for some..but a few hundred dollars never stop mustangs from outselling the base Z28 ;)
I was talking about per month… the GTO doesn’t cost a few hundred more, it costs thousands more, lets take a 2007 loaded GT, it’s still a few thousand less than a loaded GTO. The reason the Mustang out sold the Z28 was because it was a better car, perhaps if the GTO was priced more in line with a premium GT we could compare sales figures but alas the GTO never made the sales number sooooooo comparing the two is moot.
Right, they planned on building 18,000 units per year, they didn’t sell 18,000 units per year, they had planned on selling for more than 3 years if they sold the 18,000 per year but Pontiac smartly so, gave the model 3 years to make the mark or be cut. You chose to read into it that Pontiac would only make it for 3 years. If the car sold the intended amount they would never cut it because that wouldn’t be very smart, but then we are talking about GM, they killed the GN, the Z28 and other cars that were selling well enough to be continued, seems GM doesn’t learn and Ford has to keep teaching them. Not about making money per se, but about listening to what the people want. Remember, Ford wanted a FWD Mustang (Probe) in the late 80’s, people told Ford they would regret that change and Ford listened. So, while Ford isn’t the sharpest tool in the shed they do listen better to the buying public.
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Here is what I have to say and J.D.... they scored the Pontiac G6 higher than the GTO on their reviews... I owned a 2005 G6 and there is currently a NHSTA investigation on a number of MAJOR steering failures as well as brake issues on that car.. I for one had my steering completely lock up while driving.... I returned the car just over a year after buying it due to major issues that dozens of people were experiencing. Obviously J.D. isn't worth crap when it comes down to it IMHO. http://www.radaronline.com/features/2006/09/jd_power_associates.php
J.D. Powers isn’t at fault for their rating, they base the rating on reports filed by consumers (huge numbers by the way, not dozens), so dislike them all you want the numbers don’t lie. You have gone through the exact reason why I will never, ever, own another Pontiac again, thanks for helping to prove the point.
< Message edited by viking396 -- 5/11/2007 12:25:10 PM >
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Vortech V2-SQ Supercharger 60' 1.769 1/8 7.901@90.15 1/4 12.20@113.50 - new best! 10/13/07 Best 1/4 on stock KDWS tires = 12.56@113.3 My 2006 Mustang GT Web Page
Last I checked a Vert GT loaded was $31,280 MSRP... if thats not close I have no idea what is. You are correct though it is a few thousand more..not hundreds...apologize for that.
As for the TBSS... I was merely stating that the BEST AWD time is still less than the best 2WD time...so 2WD > AWD as previously stated.
Your planned production numbers (about 18K) are pretty close but your reason for stopping prodction...missed the mark. The GTO is really a Holden Monaro (Australian Muscle Car) with some exterior changes. GM did rush to get it to market but that is primarly because they wanted to get it to market so it could have a 3 yr run. The run couldn't be more than that because the vehicle could meet some safety requirement in the 2007 model yr. I don't rememer what...Side air bags or something. Anyway, they made what they made. As far as MSRP...you said a loaded Mustang GT. Well, when I was looking a "loaded" (wheels shaker sound system, appearance package, etc) bumped the MSRP over $30K. The MSRP on the GTO that I eventually boughtwas just over $31K. The only options available on the GTO were 18" wheels or and automatic transission. Everything else is standard. Mine came with the M6 ad th 18" wheels. Now the auto did have a as guzzler tax on t that bumped the price up...I think about $1,500. I don't doubt you are faster...you should be! Reasonably stock GTOs are heavier and make less HP. I think GTs are great cars...I just chose not to buy a Ford this time
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2006 Torrid Red GTO, M6 Lingenfelter Intake, Magnaflow exhaust, GMM short throw shifter, Predator tune
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RE: Ls2 GTO's are dogs.. - 
