Ok...I just recently read a post on here saying a 5.0 mustang can't break 13's with simple bolt ons without suspension mods and slicks. That just blew my mind!!
I guess a lot of people on here don't get to the strip very often.
So, anyhow, can some of you guys that know what you are talking about, like myself, clear this up?
I'm sure ROUNDMAN can tell you different.

roundy is all suspension and slicks....lol

ORIGINAL: Jugador

roundy is all suspension and slicks....lol


I'm sure he has enough experience & knowledge that 13's are possible with bolt-ons and no suspension & slicks

ORIGINAL: Jugador

roundy is all suspension and slicks....lol



PWNT!

Noob is trying to teach all the oldies here alittle something eh... Sorry, but it's going to take more than headers & a x-pipe and CAI, TB & mufflers to break a Fox into 13's without slicks or suspension mods.

btw i believe roundy has some what you would call bolt ons and runs 13's with badass suspension and slicks, so without them he would be significantly slower, so i really think that you're just arguing to argue here.

ORIGINAL: Dan02GT


ORIGINAL: Jugador

roundy is all suspension and slicks....lol



PWNT!

Noob is trying to teach all the oldies here alittle something eh... Sorry, but it's going to take more than headers & a x-pipe and CAI, TB & mufflers to break a Fox into 13's without slicks or suspension mods.

Oh...so now you have to have a high post count to know anything:eek:
You guys obviously don't belong to any other message boards or read any mustang mags to cross reference your false claims.
I also have a bone stock 88GT that I took the track once and ran a 14.8 at 94mph. You mean to tell me I couldn't hit 13's with gears, exhaust and pullies...and if not then I'm sure an LX could

To some people, nitrous is a bolt on, so it really depends on your definition of the word. Im sure you COULD get the Foxbody into the 13s with bolt ons, but if you want consistent 13 sec ETs, then i would go ahead and work on the suspension anyways.

No..I don't mean nitrous either. I'm talking N/A engines
There is no reason why a 5.0 GT or LX can't run 13's with gears, exhaust, pullies and timing bumped up to at least 14* without slicks

K, I already predicted one thread on these boards would turn into a 7 page debate-athon and I was right, so I'm going to make my wager now and say this will be a 7 page thread too.

A LX on a diet with those mods & slicks/radials can break 13's. Without stick tires and a hard launch, you aren't going to see 13's. You simply will not pick up all the MPH you need to get into the 13's without great tires with those bolt-ons.

/End of posting in this thread, observer mode now.

ORIGINAL: Dan02GT

K, I already predicted one thread on these boards would turn into a 7 page debate-athon and I was right, so I'm going to make my wager now and say this will be a 7 page thread too.

A LX on a diet with those mods & slicks/radials can break 13's. Without stick tires and a hard launch, you aren't going to see 13's. You simply will not pick up all the MPH you need to get into the 13's without great tires with those bolt-ons.

/End of posting in this thread, observer mode now.


Really.... does anyone need to say more? Period. Dot. End of Sentence.

.



















Doesn't that just piss you off?? :D

ORIGINAL: mdvaldosta


ORIGINAL: Dan02GT

K, I already predicted one thread on these boards would turn into a 7 page debate-athon and I was right, so I'm going to make my wager now and say this will be a 7 page thread too.

A LX on a diet with those mods & slicks/radials can break 13's. Without stick tires and a hard launch, you aren't going to see 13's. You simply will not pick up all the MPH you need to get into the 13's without great tires with those bolt-ons.

/End of posting in this thread, observer mode now.


Really.... does anyone need to say more? Period. Dot. End of Sentence.


Actually, yes, they need to say more.
No, you might not get there with wal-mart special tires but a GOOD set of rubber can get you there or street slicks even.
This thread will be long locked before it hits 7 pages.

thats what he was just sayin :eek: :D

Welp, I can drive much better now than I was before.
And since then I added a few things.
But my LAST N/A run without Slicks(normal street tires, not drag radials)
I ran a 13.9@101.

I can now hit a 104 with STOCK as STOCK can be heads and that's enough for a nice 13 second run...


And if you really want, I can find the slip of my last N/A non-slick run and post it if need be.

OB, you've got alot more than just the usual bolt-ons though :eek:

Like Wha?:eek:
:)

Engine:

Ford B303 Cam: <--------OK not a bolt on...
. Duration': 224°/224° @ .050'
. Lift: .480'/.480'
Steeda Aluminum Underdrive Pulleys <-----Bolt on
Edelbrock Performer RPM Intake(1500-6500) <---May be considered one...
1" Phenolic Spacer <------Bolt On?
24# Injectors <----Doesnt really even matter...
N.O.S. 75 Dry Shot <---Not counting it
Pro-M Bullet 75mm MAF for 24# Injectors <-----Bolt On
Accufab 70mm TB <--------Bolt On
Edelbrock 70mm EGR <------Bolt On
Chrome Breather Valve <----dunno why this is even on the list... Guess it just looks neat? (supposedly relieves crankcase pressure)
BBK Fenderwell CAI <-----Bolt On
BBK 29-74psi Aluminum Fuel Pressure Regulator <----another fuel thing that doesnt really matter
AC Delete Kit <------Bolt OFF?
Smog Removed <----Bolt OFF?
Griffon 2 Row Aluminum Radiator <----shouldnt matter much... may be lighter?


Electrical: <---Not sure about any of these...

MSD Pro-Billet Distributor
MSD 6AL Ignition w/ Rev Limiter
MSD Blaster 3 Coil
MSD 8.5mm Wires
BBK 255LPH Fuel Pump
Electric Fan <------Bolt On?
N.O.S. Purge Valve
Flaming River Battery Shut-off Switch
Superchips Custom Tuning Flip Chip


Drivetrain:

4.10 Gears <-----Everyone does gears so BOLT ON
Mcleodloud Scatterproof Bellhousing <----weighing me down a fartload
Centerforce Dual Friction Clutch kit(T.O. bearing, Clutch, Pressure plate, Fork) <----doesnt really matter, leaving line on normal street tires
FMS SFI Approved Flywheel <-------same thing as stock basically
Steeda Tri-Ax Short Throw Shifter <------Bolt on
Competition Engineering Adjustable Pinion Snubber <-------Bolt On


Suspension:

Eibach Pro-kit Springs - Lowered 1.5" <-----makes it worse :(
Steeda True-Full Length Sub-Frame Connectors <-------hmm?
Battery Relocated in Back <------ Hmm?
Powerslot Rotors w/ Hawk Performance Pads <---...
BFGoodrich g-Force T/A KD Tires <-----Moine Street Tires!


Exhaust:

BBK 1 3/4" Ceramic Coated Long Tube Headers <-----Bolt On
BBK 2.5" Off Road Shorty X Pipe <------Bolt On
Magnaflow Magnapacks Catback <-------Bolt On

YEAH...............IT'S ON NOW!!

Now this will be a 7 pager.......LOL

i may not be as "experienced" as some of you, but i know what ive seen and ive seen stock 5.0s run 14.5, so running 13's are not at all hard to hit.., though, ive never seen a whole lot do it because, 5.0's are usually stock, or heavily modded. but i would imagine simple bolt ons would make u hit 13s if u can drive, remover silencer and put in k&n, 4:10 gears, headers h pipe mufflers, some good DRs and you should hit a high 13, just make sure ur not scared to powershift, i know i love it :)

im not gonna say anything except ob's car is pushing the boundaries of a bolt on car. you were saying like tb mass air gears and not a whole lot else.

OB-1-kinobe...

the question was...
ORIGINAL: import slayer
break 13's with simple bolt ons

so where do we draw the line at "simple"... to me, simple is ... well simple stuff folks do in their driveway like exhaust, CAI, pulleys...

not CAMS, LONGTUBES... + blah blah blah [8D]

Yeah.. I know I said that. I meant to say simple stuff like pullies, gears, exhaust, timing bumped to 14*, K&N filter.....actually a TB and mass air change isn't needed at that point yet.
I don't why I said TB and MAF changes..

nothings impossible... in my opinion though 13's in a fox 5.0 just isn't gonna happen for 99% of folks with the usual bolt-ons.

werd. we'll call it at that. cause most people have trouble cracking into 14's stock that ive seen [:@]

i'm going to get in this,but i have to..........without good tires your car is nothing at the track.
i was spinning in third with street tires.i know my car isn't all that,but street tires hurt me really bad.

street tires hurt all... with street tires - at my track - I was cutting 2.1 60's... with Nitto's Im cutting 1.7 60's... .4 difference = about .8 lower 1/4 time

ORIGINAL: Jugador

werd. we'll call it at that. cause most people have trouble cracking into 14's stock that ive seen [:@]


Ok..fair enough. Those people with stock 5.0's that can't crack 14's can't drive.
Would you agree then that the people that CAN hit 14's in stock mustangs would be able to run 13's with bolt on stuff?

no - not with "simple" bolt-ons... were talkin simple stuff and diminishing returns. With sticky tires... yes I beleive its possible.

with many bolt ons, 13's are doable, but that also depends on what you call a bolt on. at this point its all in how you're defining simple so i say we just lock this bitch up cause its getting nowhere.

I'm talkin simple stuff too....ok, ok...I'll add sticky tires but not necessarily slicks though. I'll say drag radials.
When I say street tires, that doesn't mean it has to be the factory Goodyears. It could be a set of aftermarket wheels and tires.
Do we have a deal now?

Here is what I call simple:

Exhaust
gears(because a complete rear can be bought with gears already installed)
pullies
K&N filter
timing adjusted to 14*

With good tires, good driver and track conditions...13's should be no problem

lol.. swapping out a rear isn't a "simple" bolt-on

and I see 45 - 50 hp there - its gonna take more than that to drop a full second of the e.t.

add BFG's or some other "sticky" drag radial and I'd say you have a shot at it.

swapping a rearend out isn't hard....I did one about two weeks ago in a dirt floor garage and jackstands. I did it in a weekend.

So...a 87-93 225hp mustang with an extra 50hp "could" run a 13.87@97mph....so says my handy calculator:)

If you start with a 99-04 GT with 260 factory hp then an extra 50 hp would give you 310hp which "could" and should get you to 13.33@101mph.....at that point, I agree, you will need sticky tires with that much hp

Anyhow, what year mustangs are we talking about? The 87-93's or the 99-up mustangs?
It's possible with all of them but much easier with the '99-up cars

I thought we were talkin about 5.0's :eek:

And a 13 second pass at only 97mph WILL HAVE to have sticky tires. It would require a 1.9 60' or so

like i said, tires, tires, tires.

ORIGINAL: Jugador

roundy is all suspension and slicks....lol


NOT FOR LONG!!!!!!!

[sm=hia.gif]Don't be giving away my secrets now 90LX50!;)LOL
Well I guess it's time for me to weigh in on this discussion, ne argument! OK, here goes the truth!

1988 GT hatch with AOD tranny.
I ran my first 13, a 13.981 @ 100.30 mph in June '99 with the following bolt-ons and things removed to get the weight down.
underdrive pulleys, removed air silencer, installed K&N air filter, 26x9 Hooiser slicks on stock wheels, Hypertech chip, MAC equal length shorty headers with 2.5" catback exhaust with Dynomax mufflers, 3.73 rear gears with Auburn posi, subframe connectors, Centerline AutoDrag front wheels and skinny tires, electric fan, homemade ram air and removed rear seats, spare tire and jack, front sway bar, AC compressor and hoses. Car weighed 3,240 lbs with me in the seat and the air in June at VMP ain't all that great either but I didn't have it recorded for this day. That run was the 198th pass the car had made at the strip FYI.
And it was done with a bone stock engine and tranny with over 100,000 miles on them too!
the tranny and rear end have since been replaced and upgraded and there are big plans in the works for the engine too![sm=ts.gif]
Later that same month I won the Quick Ford bracket at the first Fun Ford Weekend at VMP and took home $500 which just did pay for the new front wheels and tires.:)

in March of 2000 I averaged 13.915 @ 100.45 mph for 6 passes made in 50 degree temps with the same basic car.

what dead weight you can remove is just as important as what you can bolt-on IMO.[sm=exactly.gif]

that's not too shabby IMO for a car with over 100,000 miles on it with some true bolt-ons and a great driver!
[sm=goodidea.gif][sm=interesting.gif][sm=thanx.gif][sm=trust_me.gif][sm=shutup.gif][sm=closed.gif]

ORIGINAL: roundman
1988 GT hatch with AOD tranny.
I ran my first 13, a 13.981 @ 100.30 mph in June '99 with the following bolt-ons and things removed to get the weight down.
underdrive pulleys, removed air silencer, installed K&N air filter, 26x9 Hooiser slicks on stock wheels


I have to chime in one last time to make sure nobody overlooks this... 26x9 slicks are no joke and the only reason why he broke 13's on a diet and whatever other bolt-ons he listed.

Do you really need slicks on an auto?

LOL...that's funny

If he has a transbrake especially.

MD, you know im going to disagree with the 99% mustang thing. I can garantee ANY 5.0L mustang CAN run in the 13s with minor bolt-ons as long as its in DECENT mechanical condition.

Every FOX that me or my friends had has run 13s WITHOUT suspension or slicks... Driver Driver Driver. Our cars couldnt all be freaks... We put a junk yard 5.0 in a coupe and ran 13.60s with gears, pullies and exhaust... All stock 90GT went 13.90s, my AOD car went 13.40s with bolt ons...

Bring it to Houston and we will make it run 13s with gears and exhaust and a pulley.[sm=closed.gif]

on stock tires? I can't see that happening. 13.60, not on a full weight 5.0 with just gears, exhaust, and pulleys.... and nobody said you can't get a bolt-on GT into the 13's, and nobody said you need tires to run 13's... pffft.

my AOD had 225 55 16 goodyear BS tires on it..

What was your 60' and trap speed?

1.90 60' at 103.4mph

I got 2 cents on this.... I may be new HERE... but I'm NOT new to cars or drag racing. If someone says that putting on longtubes, installing cams, swaping rear ends/gears, and other bolt ons can't be done in your driveway... a gravel driveway at that... you need to quit payin people to do your work for you and come hang out with us for a weekend. I have seen a fox dip into the 13's with a sneaky pete, BFG drag radials and flows only. It was a 5 spd and the driver wasn't all that great. Call me a liar.. call me a noob :eek:... but I know what I saw. AND IT WAS GOOOOOD. [8D]

ORIGINAL: slo93aod

MD, you know im going to disagree with the 99% mustang thing. I can garantee ANY 5.0L mustang CAN run in the 13s with minor bolt-ons as long as its in DECENT mechanical condition.

Every FOX that me or my friends had has run 13s WITHOUT suspension or slicks... Driver Driver Driver. Our cars couldnt all be freaks... We put a junk yard 5.0 in a coupe and ran 13.60s with gears, pullies and exhaust... All stock 90GT went 13.90s, my AOD car went 13.40s with bolt ons...

Bring it to Houston and we will make it run 13s with gears and exhaust and a pulley.[sm=closed.gif]


MD, this is part where I say...........I TOLD YOU SO!!!

Ok, here it is. I dont know exactly how spoiled some of you are, but EVERYTING I do is in the dirt. I dont have a shop. So that means cam swaps, headers, head gaskets etc. etc. gets done in my driveway. Ive pulled motors under a tree and rebuilt them on the stand without ever taking them to the shop. So "simple" is going to have to be defined by the builder. I beleive i could hit 13s w/ a 5.0 doing only bolt ons that have been done in my driveway. Id swap intake, headers, cam, swap for MSD ignition, 4:10 gears, pullies, air intake, and lighten it up by removing door bracings, sound deadener, rear seats and fue tank, then add a 13 gallon cell to trunk a relocate the battery to the rear. All that being what I would call simple, I think it could be done.

dude I was in the low 13's in 89 before all the stuff that's out now

told ya[sm=closed.gif]

When I said "simple" I meant pullies,gears, exhaust, K&N filter and timing bumped to 14*
No induction or valve train changes.
You can include gutted interior but I don't think that's necessary for 13's


BOSSMAN....I'm right there with you doing things in the dirt.

MD, I consider gear changes simple because you can take a car to a shop and have them do it for you for about $500...or...do it the hard way and swap rears in your driveway which can be done in a weekend.

Anyone else wanna say it can't be done?

Its very possible, Im in 13's and basically have all bolt ons, prett much every bolt on except upper/lower intake.But with Headers, H-pipe, FLows, Gears 3.55,subframes, timing 14*. youll be in 13's, my friends 91 Notch went high 13's with those bolt ons, on stock tires n' everything stock except what I listed.

we always kept stock headers with the stock heads. 1 5/8 headers slowed one of "our" first cars down, so we never used aftermarket headers in all our stock 13 sec mustangs

Im havin a tough time believin the 103+ trap speed outta just an extra 20 or 30 hp :eek:

As far as "SIMPLE" bolt-ons, well I suppose that depends on what you compare it to. I can swap gears in 2 hours, a cam in 3 hours... may be a bolt-on but its not whats considered "simple".

The mods slo93 posted are simple mods, and certainly running 13.'s with bolt-ons is impressive. Cutting a 1.9 60' of stock tires is impressive - definately takes driver skill to do that - but - driver skill isn't gonna get you a 103+ mph trap speed - thats all about hp to weight ratio and your trapping faster than cars with twice the mods... 50 more hp... interesting to say the least :eek:

ORIGINAL: mdvaldosta

Im havin a tough time believin the 103+ trap speed outta just an extra 20 or 30 hp :eek:

:eek:


That's about the only thing I'll agree with you on so far. 103+ trap speeds are usually seen with 12 sec cars.

Uh ive seen a camaro that trapped at 105 and only ran 13.8....just because he has high trap speed doesnt mean hes in the 12, hes far from 12's.

no but trap speed is an indicator of horsepower - I've seen cars run 13.5 and trap at 110, really depends on the 60'. A large part of the 1/4 time is traction, probably just as important as hp. A set of tires can knock off a full second or more on some cars. Add gears and traction and you've got a 1/4 killer - so simply looking at an E.T. will show you NOTHING about its horsepower. Trap speed is the real indicator of power, trap speed is largely independant of driver skill and traction - and the claimed trap speed is what looks fishy. I can believe a phenominal 1.9 60', and the trap speed matches what would be expected of a 13.6 car with a 1.9 60'... the problem is I don't beleive the trap speed, which is why I don't believe the time (with just those mods listed that aren't worth but around 25 hp).

Once again, I beleive its very likely that you could run 13's in a 5.0 with just bolt-ons... but not a cat-back, h-pipe, and pulleys... I believe, with my experience, that it will take soem sort of sticky tire and gears to do it. A 1.9 60' is about whats to be expected with drag radials on a stock 5.0 - so add some gears and some bolt-on's and your there - but at a trap speed of maybe 97 - 98 mph ON A GOOD NIGHT. to pickup 5+ mph would take probably another 40 hp.

hey,MD what about a 108 trap? is that 12.3 territory?
my dad's 89 lx hatch is bone stock except for a h-pipe,and glass packs.(don't ask)
i vote to make his car a guinnie pig.................

If you know what your doing well enough a Supercharger is a "simple bolt on". I think if you buy a 5.0 just for what most think of as "simple bolt ons", I'd say you bought the wrong car. For as cheap as you can get a 5.0, H/C/I or a S/C arent that far out of reach.

I could see a high trap speed, but not witht hat 60' time... That means he had like no spinning = lower trap speed.

ORIGINAL: mdvaldosta

And a 13 second pass at only 97mph WILL HAVE to have sticky tires. It would require a 1.9 60' or so


my first 13 came with a 2.110 60' time and a 100.30 mph MD on slicks, so that shoots your 1.9 60' theory all to heck.;)

ORIGINAL: mdvaldosta

If he has a transbrake especially.


NO TRANSBRAKE HERE, STRICTLY FOOTBRAKING!

ORIGINAL: slo93aod

Bring it to Houston and we will make it run 13s with gears and exhaust and a pulley.[sm=closed.gif]


Houston is damn near below sea level and with good air, good times will be there too!;)
NHRA Pro Stocks love running at Houston when the air is good!

ORIGINAL: mdvaldosta

Im havin a tough time believin the 103+ trap speed outta just an extra 20 or 30 hp :eek:


here's my timeslip from the best run before I switched from 3.73 to 4.56 gears. this is one of the passes from March 2000 in 50 degree air when I averaged the 13.915 @ 100.45 I mentioned earlier in this thread.
60' 2.080
330' 5.821
1/8 8.925
mph 79.23
1000' 11.584
1/4 13.821
mph 100.63

note the 2.08 60' combined with the 13.821 ET!;)
and 2 more mph wouldn't have taken all that much more HP to get, especially since my home made ram air intake increased my top end mph from 96.852 up to 99.333 after I added it on the Stang. heck, a good tail wind might have put me there too! :D

What I'm trying to say here is simply this, where you run (track altitude) and the weather, including the wind and wind direction, on any given day has tons to do with how well any car will run. in my case, the weather can add or subtract up to 0.4 secs to my ET on any given day.

and as far as tires go, slicks are made for drag racing, so why not run slicks! I do! LOL

Hey all, I was just wondering what kind of suspension mods help in the 1/4. Is it more than just dropping it? Thats the next thing I want to do after I get some new gears. Any kits out there that are particularly good for acceleration?

ORIGINAL: roundman

ORIGINAL: mdvaldosta

And a 13 second pass at only 97mph WILL HAVE to have sticky tires. It would require a 1.9 60' or so


my first 13 came with a 2.110 60' time and a 100.30 mph MD on slicks, so that shoots your 1.9 60' theory all to heck.;)



no you just proved me right :eek:

We're on page 4....only 3 more pages of this "debate-a-thon" until we reach the predicted 7 pages.
Come on...someone throw another log into the fire....LOL

well since you asked^^^^^^^:D

How many pages do you think this will stretch out before it gets locked?

I'll lock it right before it gets to the 7th page... just so I can prove you wrong [sm=smiley31.gif]

MD is on a power trip, watch out :(

I figured as much. That's why I didn't make any cash bets...:D

ORIGINAL: mdvaldosta

I'll lock it right before it gets to the 7th page... just so I can prove you wrong [sm=smiley31.gif]


And I'll reopen to say "HAH" as the final locking post:)
Then What Pardnah?

you ain't right man.......but then again.......................

ORIGINAL: Obsol3te


ORIGINAL: mdvaldosta

I'll lock it right before it gets to the 7th page... just so I can prove you wrong [sm=smiley31.gif]


And I'll reopen to say "HAH" as the final locking post:)
Then What Pardnah?


then I'll just re-open it and edit out your post saying "HAH" as the final locking post!
Then what Homie?


muahahahahahahahaha <in a scary, deep, confident cocky voice>

I always win anyways

ORIGINAL: tchamber

Hey all, I was just wondering what kind of suspension mods help in the 1/4. Is it more than just dropping it? Thats the next thing I want to do after I get some new gears. Any kits out there that are particularly good for acceleration?


lowering don't help in dragging it, actually hurts the weight transfer at launch.
HPM Mega Bite Jr. lower control arms with Eibach drag springs really help out in the rear end of things. and so does subframe connectors along with light springs up front, like 4 banger springs and some 70/30 struts would help you out also but don't use 90/10 struts on the street.

Hey Round, that sounds like it would hurt handling. Suppose I want to keep the handling for the roads around here? By the way, does anyone know how wide a tire will fit on my Mille Miglia Evo5 18x9 rims? I was thinking 265s would be nice, but they came shipped with 245, so dont know if they will fit.

275's wold be the recommended size for 9" wheels... I know 285's will fit not sure how much bigger though maybe 305's

ORIGINAL: tchamber

Hey Round, that sounds like it would hurt handling. Suppose I want to keep the handling for the roads around here? By the way, does anyone know how wide a tire will fit on my Mille Miglia Evo5 18x9 rims? I was thinking 265s would be nice, but they came shipped with 245, so dont know if they will fit.


only thing that might hurt the handling is the front shocks and struts. subframes will most definitely help handling as it stiffens the chassis and greatly reduces body roll in the corners.

ORIGINAL: mdvaldosta

ORIGINAL: roundman

ORIGINAL: mdvaldosta

And a 13 second pass at only 97mph WILL HAVE to have sticky tires. It would require a 1.9 60' or so


my first 13 came with a 2.110 60' time and a 100.30 mph MD on slicks, so that shoots your 1.9 60' theory all to heck.;)



no you just proved me right :eek:


I'm saying it didn't take a 1.90 60' time to run a 13 sec ET, not arguing about tires! LOL

Im saying that it took you a 100+ mph trap speed to do it with a 2.1 60'

Now, imagine having less hp and trapping at 97 ... doesn't it make sense that you'd have to run a better 60' to make up for the lower trap speed to run the same time?

i have a hard time seeing a non-slicked car getting enough traction to pull it out. "simple" bolt-ons WILL NOT produce the power to overcome the lack of traction. seen it a thousand times.:eek:

maybe, but I am running less mph now than back then because of a rear gear change and the HP really didn't change any. there are too many variables in getting a car down the strip to say positively what you're saying. granted, the 60' time is critical, but look at the Pro cars who blow the tires off at the launch and then coast, they do 12's at only 80 mph with a 1.0 60', so you can't just equate a 60' time with an ET or trap speed based on some linear relationship, it don't work that way. some cars just don't leave that hard but come on strong at the finish line and vice versa. just look at me, I can do 1.7 60' times all day but run out of engine before the finish line so I ain't running low 13's or 12's which by your theory I should be doing with that kind of 60' time. see what I mean???;)

Trap speed = measure of power
60' = measure of traction

both are critical, but I guarantee you you can tell me the trap speed and the 60's and I can VERY close to telling you what the e.t. is (assuming it was a full run). Each type of car is alittle different, but especially with any year mustang I certain I can tell you within a tenth or two.

Its really very simple, .1 off the 60' will drop around .2 off the e.t., so if you know a car, like yours roundy, runs 13.55 @ 98 w/ a 1.78 60' I can honestly tell you that if you got your 60' down to 1.68 you will run right at a 13.35

JD ran a 13.5 with a 2.0 60' - with gears and Nitto's he should be able to cut a 1.8 60' once he gets used to everything, and I expect him to run around a 13.1 if the weather is similar to his old time.

A local guy with an '04 Cobra with a pulley, etc. ran a 13.6 @ 116 ... because his 60's was a 2.50 (yea that sucked) ... another guy with an nearly identical modded '03 Cobra ran a 12.3 @ 117, had a 1.89 60'

An accquantince at my local track has a similar year GT, he cuts 1.6 60's with just a couple bolt-ons, full tubular drag suspension etc, and only traps at a 100 but damn near pulls the front tires off the ground... he run's 13.0's, when he ran Nitto's and cut 1.9 60's he ran 13.6's

Trap speed & 60' is always relative to e.t. I know that if a full weight 99+ GT traps at 102 mph their putting down around 250 rwhp and with a 2.2 60's their only gonna run a 14.0 , with a 2.0 60' their lookin at a 13.6, with a 1.8 a 13.2 - sure theirs room for error, powershifting will add another mph, so will removing the rear wing, same with weight reduction.. but were only talking .1 or .2 tenths. I give myself that much. Im not basing this off of just my local experience, its pretty much a given anywhere in the country. Its just a matter of math.

Well after a certain 60' each tenth there doesnt equal 2 tenths in the 1/4

Believe it's that 1.6 barrier
or was it 1.5?
I've never gotten that low of a 60' before but I'm just going by what I hear from the pro's at my track.

Tho I am very close to the 1.6 :)
1.708!!!
Ugh!

yea their probably is diminishing returns, but as a generalization its safe to claim .2 e.t. for a .1 60'

this isnt about 60 foot times and how it corelates with 1/4 mile ets, considering horsepower and wieght combinations at a given temperature due to the barametric pressure and how full the moon is.....

Its about stock mustangs with minor bolt-ons running 13 second 1/4s
And it happens all the time why isnt this locked already... They were doing this 15 years ago...

What do you consider minor tho?

quote:

ORIGINAL: mdvaldosta

Trap speed = measure of power
60' = measure of traction

Im not basing this off of just my local experience, its pretty much a given anywhere in the country. Its just a matter of math.


speed is a measure of the horsepower, true.
60' times are more a measure of torque and how well it can be applied to the track for traction
it's not math, it's physics and the laws of motion that determine how it all works out. since force = mass x acceleration, the lower the mass, the easier it will be to accelerate it to a given speed. that's why you always hear so much about HP to weight ratios since the mass of the car affects the rolling resistance due to tire to track friction losses. the chassis setup for any given mass also greatly effects how well the static weight is tranferred from the front axle to the rear axle at the hit of the throttle. that's why so much time and money is spent on making the chassis work correctly to get the mass in motion as rapidly as possible without generating excess tire spin. depending on the engine, you actually want some tire spin to keep from pulling the engine rpms down so much at the launch but you don't want so much spin that the traction fails and you get tire smoke or squealing sounds from too much wheel spin. it's torque that gets the car moving so you want lots of low end torque multiplied by gearing to get the mass accelerating as rapidly as possible without breaking the line on traction. once it's moving, then horsepower comes more into play to keep it accelerating and overcoming the forces opposing the forward motion, such as aerodynamic drag and rolling friction throughout the drivetrain and at the tire/track surface. if there was a way to leave with low rear tire pressure for maximum traction and low 60' times. then gradually increase the pressures as they go down the track the car would both ET quicker and run higher mph due to less rolling resistance. the same goes for aerodynamic drag too. wheelstands are good for traction at the launch but you don't want the front end staying way up too long as you will run slower due to drag, so you compromise with the chassis and gearing set up to get the maximum weight transfer (pitch rotation) with minimum front end lift to get the best ET's. how the engine reacts to the launch and the gear changes also has big impact on overall times and speeds. if you drag it down too much at the hit you lose time overall but if you don't make it work hard and burn more fuel, it won't make the power either. so it's a fine balancing act between making the torque and horsepower at the right engine speeds and applying both at the right times that get the car down the track most efficiently on any given run. stock engines and chassis are no way designed for maximum acceleration from a dead stop, so getting a car to run best for drag racing requires lots of changes to both the engine and chassis to get the best results. when you can do this and still tolerate it on the street, then you've got a winner!

And professor roundman takes the cake.[sm=smiley32.gif]

1988 GT hatch with AOD tranny.
I ran my first 13, a 13.981 @ 100.30 mph in June '99 with the following bolt-ons and things removed to get the weight down.
underdrive pulleys, removed air silencer, installed K&N air filter, 26x9 Hooiser slicks on stock wheels, Hypertech chip, MAC equal length shorty headers with 2.5" catback exhaust with Dynomax mufflers, 3.73 rear gears with Auburn posi, subframe connectors, Centerline AutoDrag front wheels and skinny tires, electric fan, homemade ram air and removed rear seats, spare tire and jack, front sway bar, AC compressor and hoses. Car weighed 3,240 lbs with me in the seat and the air in June at VMP ain't all that great either but I didn't have it recorded for this day. That run was the 198th pass the car had made at the strip FYI.

This is what it took Roundy to get a 13.9? I assuming that he knows how to drive. He's been doing it awhile. Looks like a little more than just your list of "Simple Bolt Ons" Besides, he had 26X9 SLICKS...Not DR's.

The guy that said his ALL STOCK 90GT went 13.90's. Please post a video. I don't buy that for a second.

All stock?
Good one :)
That's quite impossible unless he chopped off a fartload of weight.
But that wouldnt be so stock would it?

The guy claimed he ran 13.6 on street tires just adding 20 hp worth of mods :eek: and got a 103 mph trap speed


OB' hows that sound to you :eek: The sh!ts real deep in here, my $$ says he never ran it at the track or if he did he's lying, unless his DA was like -3000

hehe
That's complete and UTTER bs...
That 103 trap speed is what I can pull off now with about 80-90hp worth of mods...

14.6 maybe. Come on...You've got what? A 3600 lb car with 225 hp. Probably not.

3600? :(
Foxes are lighter than that mr...
Mines got a couple of heavy things added to it and it sits at about 3250 without driver.
beefier bellhousing, sub frame connectors, battery box n cable,rims

nah their only like 3k ish, but still the guy would be lucky to be putting 200 rwhp to the ground with those mods... even in a 2900 or 3000 lb car thats not 13 second material on street tires - mid 14's with a GOOD driver in GOOD air. I'd bet my next paycheck on it.

See, I wasn't positive. Thats why I said "What? 3600 lbs?"

Regardless, I still don't buy it.

According to my handy calculator it would take 328 total HP to move a 3200 pound to 103mph in the 1/4 mile.
Even if he removed 300lbs of weight and got it down to 2900lbs it will still take almost 300hp(297 to be exact) to go 103 through the traps. So that part is probably BS.

I STILL think 13's are possible with gears, pullies, exhaust and timing and maybe even subframes on street tires. When I say "street" tires, I mean ANY D.O.T legal tire. It does't have to be the stock tire size.

Well
Mickey Thompson ET Streets are a DOT rated Street Tire.
Those fit your thingie?
They're basically a slick... and propel my lowered stiff springed car to a VERY low 1.7 60'
I know I can break 1.6 with em.

ORIGINAL: Obsol3te

Well
Mickey Thompson ET Streets are a DOT rated Street Tire.
Those fit your thingie?
They're basically a slick... and propel my lowered stiff springed car to a VERY low 1.7 60'
I know I can break 1.6 with em.


Yep, those fit the criteria. If they are legal on the street, they are qualify as a D.O.T tire........

Well then I agree with you now [sm=icon_cheers.gif]

Glad we came to terms... just took alittle hammering on both sides :D

...and who said this was going to be a 7 pager??[:-]

MD, I accept money orders- no personal checks and no paypal. And personally I think that Roundmans times are a little slow for all the mods that are done, but I've also seen GT40 engines with AODs go slower then him.

I would live to invite my friends to this site, but you wouldnt believe them anyway. And yah let me go back and video that 90Gt that ran the 13.90 all stock from 7 years ago...

Hopefully I can get fastang90 (or something like that) in here so he can help me convince you that mustangs arent dogs when they are stock...

Why would I lie about some slo stock cars??? I have a freakin 398, and all of my friends went the same route, or turbo or blower(look up Blaine King, Eric Stubbs for example).... We race 13 second cars in a F250 4x4.... Have some confidence in your foxes they are not slow.

Talk to Ed Curtis of FlowTechInduction Systems... Ask someone who knows... And dont disagree with them b/c of some math equation you came up with after 5 years on a forum. It has been done too many times

Bottom line is you lied by saying your near stock 5.0 trapped at 103 mph, nothin more to say. You've lost all your credibility. You can say all you want, bottom line is you haven't proved anything I've said wrong and you've got no proof to back up your bold claim of a 103 trap speed. I never said 5.0's were dogs, your putting words into my mouth. I said a midly modded 5.0 can't run 13's without sticky tires. Thats it. You said a car with just a few bolt-ons, not even 25hp worth of bolt-ons, ran a 13.6 and trapped at 103. Not happenin, you lied, your a chump. In a blue moon would I beleive a 13.9 with mild bolt-ons like what you said plus gears and sticky tires... yea sure I will but not with a 103 trap... lmao dude your lying.

Can't we all just get a log? Well make fire, cook smores.

ORIGINAL: Isaac

Can't we all just get a log? Well make fire, cook smores.


HAHAHA GET A LOG! That was classic man!!!!!!

this is slo93aod friend he is not lieing about the trap speeds nor the times.
my first mustang was a 86 coupe (been a few years) it had race crank pulley, full 2.5 exhaust with stock headers off road h pipe and 373 gears still had ac,ps, smog pump.tps was @.999, timing was @ 18 and we pulled the water lines off cause its hot in texas and we dont need hot water flowing in the egr spacer. the car had a 1.8? 60 foot and ran 13.40 @105. may still have tapes. by the way the tires were 265/something street tires.
ever car any of us had ran in the mid 13s with exhaust, pulley and gear had timing @16-18, and the water lines pulled. it has been about ten years since my first mustang i had a 86,88,90,89 and a 93 any this is the only car that has not ran a 13 bolt ons becasue it is a 4 banger! come to texas if your car is not a beater with a million miles on we can have it running a mid to low 13 with the same things we had on our cars [sm=trust_me.gif]

Hmmm...now the E.T is 13.4@105:eek: What happened to 13.6@103???????
Now which is it? I'm getting my hip boots on now:D

Something tells me a big silver lock is coming this way.
MD..get that lock ready cause were're closing in on that 7 pager!

he was talking about his 86 jacko, learn to read
you might learn something

ORIGINAL: import slayer

Hmmm...now the E.T is 13.4@105:eek: What happened to 13.6@103???????
Now which is it? I'm getting my hip boots on now:D

Something tells me a big silver lock is coming this way.
MD..get that lock ready cause were're closing in on that 7 pager!



BAAAMMMM! as you wish :eek: