200 F to 205 F is fine you want your engine running just below boiling temp they were designed to run that way. i see way to many people thinking cooler is better ! point is your engine needs to operate at the right temperature or you will be loosing power. look in the facts section i put a brand new 3 core copper brass radiator in my 302 last summer it ran perfectly at 205 F
205 F is perfect if you have a lower engine temperature lets say 190 F you will loose power. It needs to operate just below boiling temperature . I am running a 3 core brass copper radiator and 205 F was what my engine operated at just fine. Take a good look at our modern cars today look at where that temperature gauge needle rests just below boiling !
ORIGINAL: gmata What Size Should i get for my 1967 Mustang 289 engine? can i use the stock brackets to install the radiator? or do i need anything else?
Here's how I did it. Size depends on if you want to modify your core support to expose more fins to the airflow. I recommend not cutting the core support. Get at least the 19x22. Might go one size bigger.
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ORIGINAL: green_blurr
205 F is perfect if you have a lower engine temperature lets say 190 F you will loose power. It needs to operate just below boiling temperature . I am running a 3 core brass copper radiator and 205 F was what my engine operated at just fine. Take a good look at our modern cars today look at where that temperature gauge needle rests just below boiling !
It is my opinion that any engine is running at 185 will make as much power as one running at 205, within 1 or 2 horsepower anyway. I like to see the engine run at whatever temp thermostat is in the car, if it runs more than 5 degrees over thermostat temp, then the vehicle is in danger of overheating. I say this because anything higher than 5 over is evidence that the cooling system is struggling to keep the engine cool, and it is running right on the edge of overheating.
When running this close to the edge, any little thing can tip the ballances and cause overheating. (like a napkin on the radiator, or a loose belt) This can be ok if you really watch the heat guage and you have full confidence that anyone else who drives the car does the same thing. One (very brief) lapse in concentration in regard to this matter can be very expensive.
I think that the reason most modern cars run so much hotter than older cars is primarily for emmissions reasons and not for performance issues. Also, it should be noted that modern cars run radiator caps as high as 18 psi, I do not think that "stock" Mustang radiators are capable of sustaining this kind of pressure over the long term.
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quote:
ORIGINAL: JMD
quote:
ORIGINAL: green_blurr
205 F is perfect if you have a lower engine temperature lets say 190 F you will loose power. It needs to operate just below boiling temperature . I am running a 3 core brass copper radiator and 205 F was what my engine operated at just fine. Take a good look at our modern cars today look at where that temperature gauge needle rests just below boiling !
It is my opinion that any engine is running at 185 will make as much power as one running at 205, within 1 or 2 horsepower anyway. I like to see the engine run at whatever temp thermostat is in the car, if it runs more than 5 degrees over thermostat temp, then the vehicle is in danger of overheating. I say this because anything higher than 5 over is evidence that the cooling system is struggling to keep the engine cool, and it is running right on the edge of overheating.
When running this close to the edge, any little thing can tip the ballances and cause overheating. (like a napkin on the radiator, or a loose belt) This can be ok if you really watch the heat guage and you have full confidence that anyone else who drives the car does the same thing. One (very brief) lapse in concentration in regard to this matter can be very expensive.
I think that the reason most modern cars run so much hotter than older cars is primarily for emmissions reasons and not for performance issues. Also, it should be noted that modern cars run radiator caps as high as 18 psi, I do not think that "stock" Mustang radiators are capable of sustaining this kind of pressure over the long term.
true its for emmissions increased gas mileage and longer engine life the new cars are kept around 230-240 you also have to remember that antifreeze doesnt boil at the same temp h20 does and also being that its a sealed syste also raise the boing temp. u can run temp just the the new cars but timing fuel ratio etc must be tuned for it
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Copper is a better conductor of heat than aluminum. Copper/brass radiators usually have copper fins, but brass tubes (70% copper, 30% zinc). The bond between the fins and the tubes may be made with soldier (A tin/lead alloy, or high-tin alloy) or with a braze material (mostly copper). Its all in the facts buddy
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ORIGINAL: rmodel65
true its for emmissions increased gas mileage and longer engine life the new cars are kept around 230-240 you also have to remember that antifreeze doesnt boil at the same temp h20 does and also being that its a sealed syste also raise the boing temp. u can run temp just the the new cars but timing fuel ratio etc must be tuned for it
Except for those classic Mustang owners who run advanced computer controlled engines, the difference between classic Mustangs and new cars is different enough that a comparison of the two is not even in the same ball park, hell, it's not even the same sport.
While the new cars will often run even as high as 260, in my opinion the higher temps are not benificial to an early style carburated car with a traditional distributor. The new cars do all kinds of tricks with timing and fuel mixture on the fly in order for these engines to be "comfortable" running at these temperatures.
The automakers have gone to great legnths to bring the combustion temps up, and down at the same time (I am speaking of EGR to bring temps down). This kind of "ballance act" is not possible on a traditionally tuned engine. In fact, IMO those of us who have done performance mods (ie: compression ratio, etc.) are looking to bring the combustion chamber temps down, to help eliminate detonation, not up.
While you may be right about the efficiency being better at higher temps, (IMO a little), I do not think that higher engine temps do anything to help engine life, especially on a carbed vehicle.
The newer cars do operate at higher coolant pressures which goes a long way to raise the boiling temperture of the engine coolant, but then again how much presure can a stock cooling system on a classic Mustang handle? Many newer vehicles have pressure related radiator failures, even though they are designed to operate at these pressures.
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Well then what is the perfect operating temperature for our 289s and 302? i have a 190F radiator and it levels out at 205F it runs fine but should it be cooler? whos to say its all opinions
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the old cast iron, carby combo is best suited to about 180*. Dont forget the thermo is supposed to control temp up to opening and then partially close again as required to maintain that temp. It might go up a little in traffic, but should come down again as soon as you start moving. Once warmed up, it shouldnt drop below the thermo rating.
if your thermo is 192 and temp is showing 205 stable and assuming your radiator is not partially blocked, i think you are more likely to have an issue with the guage. IMO you wouldnt worry about it unless the thing is not stable at 205. Cheapest options - get the guage tested or just try a 180 thermo which should stable your temp on your guage at say 195.
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Well i was running a mechanical gauge so i know for a fact it was reading correctly 205 F it was stable but i had a 190 F thermostat I have a new 3 core radiator 18' flexlite fan. I just ran out to the garage and took the thermostat out ! il be replacing it. i need something to keep me busy.
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quote:
ORIGINAL: green_blurr
Well i was running a mechanical gauge so i know for a fact it was reading correctly 205 F it was stable but i had a 190 F thermostat I have a new 3 core radiator 18' flexlite fan. I just ran out to the garage and took the thermostat out ! il be replacing it. i need something to keep me busy.
I don't think that 205 will hurt you at all, my main point, before I got off on tangents, was that I believe that the an engine should run within 5 (or 10) degrees of the thermostat temp, if it does not, then I believe this to be evidence that the cooling system is working at capacity, which leaves very little room for anything to go wrong. I understand that this is a common issue on classic Mustangs, but this does not lessen it's importance.
As a side point, just because you have a mechanical guage, it's accuracy is not guaranteed, even if it's new,,, I know this to be a fact...
< Message edited by JMD -- 3/26/2007 2:12:22 AM >
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RE: copper v alum radiators - 
