Regarding the X, there is no IC for it. For now, it's water/meth injection. I can't find the post on another forum, but apparently the IATs on the X are low enough that the IC isn't a necessity....
_____________________________
Kenwood DPX-501 with Sirius - PH DS - CHE LCAs - CDC Billet Grill - CA Dream Hood - T-LOK - Hankook 255/50ZR17 - MRT AeroTurbine - CHE STB - GT front bumper
X-Charger #20 298whp 313wtq 10.7psi - Mustang Dyno - Tuned by Jerry Wroblewski
I was just curious, my GTP runs an M90( of course a GM) and gains from a IC are Outstanding, They are water to air. A m90 patern is the same? correct? so a GTP IC would fit? im unsure of this or does it depend on the intake manifold? There are numerous kits fro gtp's ranging from 500-900$ ready to go kits, and they offer up to 40+ whp with a pulley swap( its safer with a smaller pulley now) , i just think that it would be pointles to go without one. -Jon
The GM version IC won't adapt to the Ford block, it may fit the blower but not the engine. The X-Charger on our motor will safely give a gain of 70 to 80 whp with no IC, how is that pointless?
quote:
ORIGINAL: Yonco
I was just curious, my GTP runs an M90( of course a GM) and gains from a IC are Outstanding, They are water to air. A m90 patern is the same? correct? so a GTP IC would fit? im unsure of this or does it depend on the intake manifold? There are numerous kits fro gtp's ranging from 500-900$ ready to go kits, and they offer up to 40+ whp with a pulley swap( its safer with a smaller pulley now) , i just think that it would be pointles to go without one. -Jon
_____________________________
X Charger, 5 speed manual, Hurst shifter,T-Lock/410's, Navigation GT takeoff kit, dual exhaust, 17" Bullitts, Eibach springs, front/rear swaybars, billet fuel door
" pointless not to put one one" because they have such a gain! its definatly worth it every bit to put one on, but i think not putting an IC on isnt the best idea, but if they dont have them out yet, then nevermind. -Jon
I have not seen any conclusive data that indicates an X makes more power anywhere than a centrifugal like a Vortech or Procharger.
I would like to get an X car on my dyno and play with it. I have tons of data from my wife's blown 4.0...everything from 315rwhp at 7psi to 395rwhp at 15psi.
I have not seen any conclusive data that indicates an X makes more power anywhere than a centrifugal like a Vortech or Procharger.
Justin I guess you are responding to me, I posted a dyno of an X Charger manual below that was just dyno along with your dyno run 008 on a Vortech at 10psi few things to keep in mind.
This dyno on the X Charger only went to 5200rpms and only hit 7.6 psi (instead of 9.7psi) run was cut short because timing was being pulled for some reason and the also AFR leaned out and because of this he only hit 7.6psi instead of the 9.7psi he should of so this dyno data is not at full power he would have made with a proper tune.
But even all that aside it looks to me this X Charger made more rwtq at 2000 rpm and at 2400rpm vs your Vortech running a 10 psi pulley and you did say anywhere.
I look forward to see the X Charger manual and what the numbers will be/ look like running a good tune without timing being pulled, a good AFR and running up to around 5900 rpm and hitting 9.7psi vs 7.6psi and dyno curve vs X Charger dyno below.
Now if I missed something or am incorrect let me know but this is how it looks to me.
X Charger Dyno 7.6psi
Vortech Dyno 10psi
< Message edited by Krazer -- 3/21/2007 10:12:48 PM >
Justin I think it looks like I misunderstood your post to me per your response to me, I never said in this thread the X Charger has make more max power than a centri s/c. I was debating scrming on only the 60’ the X Charger 9.7psi vs his Vortech 10psi so when you posted that by responding to me I thought you were talking about low end power that I was debating scrming over the 60’. I thought your anywhere meant anywhere in the rpm range.
So I think I misunderstood your post and will remove my foot from my mouth now :)
< Message edited by Krazer -- 3/22/2007 5:27:08 AM >
Is 9.7 nonintercooled on the X safe? .....and how about non aftercooled 14psi on the Vortec? Justin what boost does your wife run on a daily basis?
According to the recorded IAT's on the X Charger running the 2.80 pulley (8-9.7psi) and testing the air temps look safe imo and there is also safety built into the tune if they rise timing will be pulled. You can also run a water injection as an intercooler per say to gain even more rwhp and rwtq at the same time will drop temps by another 30 degrees.
You could also just run the 3.0 pulley 6-8psi that comes with the X Charger the 2.80 pulley is an option.
< Message edited by Krazer -- 3/21/2007 11:35:16 PM >
i'm curious, what kind of hit would gas mileage take going from stock to the vortech? also, what kinds of problems could the vortech cause to the engine, if any? would the warranty on the s/c account for this (since obviously the factory warranty would be shot!). another newbie here. sorry!
_____________________________
2007 Premium V6 Coupe in Alloy w/ Pony Package and dark charcoal leather. Mods: C&L CAI, X-Cal2, single GT Exhaust, AVIC-D3
Well, at various points people have claimed the X has great low end. I started to compare dynographs that I saw online and found it to be very comparable to vortech's low end.
Here is a sheet from my wife's aftercooled vortech at 7psi: The low end #s are very similar if not very close to an X.
Her car recently got 24mpg on a highway trip with the 2.67 pulley. She daily drives it that way right now. We'll probably go back to the 2.87 in the next month or two.
Justin not disagreeing with what your saying vs your tune but few things here that X Charger dyno posted above is not a custom dyno tune either and is the first X Charger dyno on a manual we seen. I like to see the numbers ( with a little work) with a custom dyno tune I mean I have seen Vortech dynos at 9-10 psi pull around 280 rwhp 270rwtq from before a custom tune.
I was also just debating scrming on the 60’only as he was bragging about his is better but he was comparing his 10psi Vortech with 4.10’s to a X Charger running the 3.0 pulley (6-8psi) running 373’s. Imo not a fair comparison let’s compare a X Charger running the 2.8 pulley (8-9.7 psi) running 4.10’s same tires same track everything else being equal mod/setup. I think a X Charger with a custom tune that’s tuned off idle ( per your post on tuning excellent write up BTW) would pull a better 60’ I mean no big deal but lets see a fair comparison before we brag thats all I am saying and debating previously in this thread.
The other thing I just like to mention that is one hell of a tune you did at 7psi most dyno data I seen tuners can’t get those kinds of numbers at 7psi even 9-10psi on a Vortech. your one of the top tier tuners imo just look at your other results!
< Message edited by Krazer -- 3/23/2007 12:56:38 AM >
Justin not disagreeing with what your saying vs your tune but few things here that X Charger dyno posted above is not a custom dyno tune either and is the first X Charger dyno on a manual we seen. I like to see the numbers ( with a little work) with a custom dyno tune I mean I have seen Vortech dynos at 9-10 psi pull around 280 rwhp 270rwtq from before a custom tune.
I was also just debating scrming on the 60’only as he was bragging about his is better but he was comparing his 10psi Vortech with 4.10’s to a X Charger running the 3.0 pulley (6-8psi) running 373’s. Imo not a fair comparison let’s compare a X Charger running the 2.8 pulley (8-9.7 psi) running 4.10’s same tires same track everything else being equal mod/setup. I think a X Charger with a custom tune that’s tuned off idle ( per your post on tuning excellent write up BTW) would pull a better 60’ I mean no big deal but lets see a fair comparison before we brag thats all I am saying and debating previously in this thread.
The other thing I just like to mention that is one hell of a tune you did at 7psi most dyno data I seen tuners can’t get those kinds of numbers at 7psi even 9-10psi on a Vortech. your one of the top tier tuners imo just look at your other results!
As i've said it BEFORE. Nav's car and my car are basically identical..
1) Nav has 3.73 but was running shorter MT ET (VERY STICKY). I had 4.10s but was running a TALLER tires (M&H's are so-so...). The difference in our tires gave us both around a 3.95 ratio... so gearing is not a factor
2) So what if I'm running 10 PSI... that's how my Vortech came... for $30 I've now upgraded to 12PSI... your going to have to spend a lot more money than that to bump the boost on the X-charger... you'll have to add water/meth...
3) I've also heard people saying that I'm a better driver than Nav... what a joke! Nav definitely has more seat time then I do! I went to the track once in July and then not again to October... I was busy collecting car show trophies while Nav was collect racing trophies!
4) Now we have a very respected tuner saying he can setup a Vortech to perform just like an X... and you still don't want to believe it... Get over it... The X is a very nice system and offers good performance... but if we meet at a stop light, don't think your going to walk me just because you have a better looking dyno sheet...
< Message edited by scrming -- 3/23/2007 8:33:01 AM >
Justin not disagreeing with what your saying vs your tune but few things here that X Charger dyno posted above is not a custom dyno tune either and is the first X Charger dyno on a manual we seen. I like to see the numbers ( with a little work) with a custom dyno tune I mean I have seen Vortech dynos at 9-10 psi pull around 280 rwhp 270rwtq from before a custom tune.
I was also just debating scrming on the 60’only as he was bragging about his is better but he was comparing his 10psi Vortech with 4.10’s to a X Charger running the 3.0 pulley (6-8psi) running 373’s. Imo not a fair comparison let’s compare a X Charger running the 2.8 pulley (8-9.7 psi) running 4.10’s same tires same track everything else being equal mod/setup. I think a X Charger with a custom tune that’s tuned off idle ( per your post on tuning excellent write up BTW) would pull a better 60’ I mean no big deal but lets see a fair comparison before we brag thats all I am saying and debating previously in this thread.
The other thing I just like to mention that is one hell of a tune you did at 7psi most dyno data I seen tuners can’t get those kinds of numbers at 7psi even 9-10psi on a Vortech. your one of the top tier tuners imo just look at your other results!
As i've said it BEFORE. Nav's car and my car are basically identical..
1) Nav has 3.73 but was running shorter MT ET (VERY STICKY). I had 4.10s but was running a TALLER tires (M&H's are so-so...). The difference in our tires gave us both around a 3.95 ratio... so gearing is not a factor
2) So what if I'm running 10 PSI... that's how my Vortech came... for $30 I've now upgraded to 12PSI... your going to have to spend a lot more money than that to bump the boost on the X-charger... you'll have to add water/meth...
3) I've also heard people saying that I'm a better driver than Nav... what a joke! Nav definitely has more seat time then I do! I went to the track once in July and then not again to October... I was busy collecting car show trophies while Nav was collect racing trophies!
4) Now we have a very respected tuner saying he can setup a Vortech to perform just like an X... and you still don't want to believe it... Get over it... The X is a very nice system and offers good performance... but if we meet at a stop light, don't think your going to walk me just because you have a better looking dyno sheet...
LOL here we go again this will be my last post on this and I was only talking 60' above.
1.IMO for a true comparison have to have the same gears and tires none of this a ratio around or condition of different tires about, along with what I posted above setup wise also.
2.I am not talking about using water/meth injection in my last response to Justin just a custom tune and move up to the 2.8 pulley 8-9.7psi per the 60" and that only cost $100.
3.John you have 2 years of seat time in your 2005 Mustang and I believe a way more runs that Nav in his 2006 Mustang.
4.I am not disagreeing with Justin but also pointed out and would like to look at the X Charger manual dyno curve once a custom dyno is performed like Justin has on his manual and then compare it wouldn't you agree that would a more fair comparison. Now if you want to also throw the water injection which is the X Charger intercooler per say in on top of that in, this alone has shown gains of 20rwhp and 20rwtq. For the record the above dyno on the X Charger was with no water injection.
I never said I would walk you but let me point out before you removed the cats you were running a tlok and gears at 10psi with your Vortech you best ET was 13.30's bscotti with an auto running an X Charger with an open rear end and no gears ran 13.20's ET! I would think if bscotti had a t-lok and gears that X Chager car would see high 12's.
I am not saying one system is better than the other just pointing out a few things and discussing them but like I said my last post on this.
< Message edited by Krazer -- 3/23/2007 11:55:03 AM >
Knowing Nav and Krazer, I think we will see some damn impressive track runs from them this season.
_____________________________
See this? THIS is my BOOM STICK! The 12-gauge double-barreled Remington. S-Mart's top of the line. 10.9@122MPH w/4.0 V6 PH Turbo 5.4 swap in progress! www.rygen.net/stang
i for one dont carE who is faster i like that mine, it looks prettier, i dont have to change the oil for 100,000 miles. i can still see my engine, it looks prettier, people all the time ask if its factory, its able to be installed with basic tools in under a day, its prettier, it sounds cool smooth consistant power. i know this will be an interesting season. did i say its pretty?
OK TODD, FINE!
X-CHARGER SLOWER BUT PRETTY
< Message edited by afixer -- 3/23/2007 3:03:20 PM >
See this? THIS is my BOOM STICK! The 12-gauge double-barreled Remington. S-Mart's top of the line. 10.9@122MPH w/4.0 V6 PH Turbo 5.4 swap in progress! www.rygen.net/stang
IMO, I like the xc's because they perform decently, come on early, much less plumbing, easy to install extremely low maintanance and they look great because it's an integral part of the engine!
Just out of curiosity. Has anyone thought about using an external air to air intercooler just like the ones used on turbo's and centi's for xc's? It would mean adding an adaptor which would raise the height of the xc a bit and some external ducting 'plumbing' of course but perhaps offer better performance gains than the simple water cooled plate type that sandwiches between the xc and intake. Instead of just using a little plate like radiator with coolant running through it, have the air pumped out from the xc to the intercooler on it's way to the intake. I think it would also deliver cooler/denser air as the air charge has more time to cool hence produce more power pound for pound of boost! Seems plausable. What do you guys think? Thanks! Wolfey2k
_____________________________
07 Vista Blue Pony Upgrades / Mods In Order: Dynamat Snd Prfng True Dual Exhaust X W/Flowmasters GT Rear Bmpr Cvr C&L CAI W/Helix TB Spacer B a m a Chips Custom Tune TLok JBA Wires
i for one dont carE who is faster i like that mine, it looks prettier, i dont have to change the oil for 100,000 miles. i can still see my engine, it looks prettier, people all the time ask if its factory, its able to be installed with basic tools in under a day, its prettier, it sounds cool smooth consistant power. i know this will be an interesting season. did i say its pretty?
OK TODD, FINE!
X-CHARGER SLOWER BUT PRETTY
How is this directed at me, I wasn't in this debate. I simply said we will see even better times from this season. The kit already proved itself at mid 13's at lowest boost setting which is impressive.
_____________________________
See this? THIS is my BOOM STICK! The 12-gauge double-barreled Remington. S-Mart's top of the line. 10.9@122MPH w/4.0 V6 PH Turbo 5.4 swap in progress! www.rygen.net/stang
Printable Version
RE: Superchargers - 
