So i was kinda crunching numbers in my head last night while i was laying in bed and i came to the conclusion that for these cars, the n/a situation really isn't that bad of a way to go. It is safe to say that mid 14's are attainable with just bolt ons. Now say you are at about 200rwhp with simple bolt ons and a tune, and what...220rwtq? now we haven't gotten solid info on how much heads and cams will do for us here, but gash on the **** forums said with JUST his p&p heads he saw considerably more than 20rwhp on top of his i think he had what 194 or something like that...and he is auto i beleive. and then he continued to say that the hp improvements were impressive but the torque improvements were FAR more impressive, so lets say (and this is being conservative) he saw 30rwtq. Now this would put him around 215-220rwhp and 250-260rwtq. That could easily put a 4.0 in low 14's or high 13's. Now from there, gash did not even get cams. let's say another 10rwhp (maybe a bit more) for some nice, not too extreme cams, and maybe another 10rwtq(for a total of about 230rwhp and maybe 270rwtq). so now we have what should definately be a high 13 sec 4.0 (with gears and an lsd/locker and maybe some lca's and a bit of other launching stuff). Now crunching the numbers, some nice ported and polished heads should cost around 1k. Then with some cams from say, delk for i think they want 380 and some springs and supporting mods...lets say 1500 for p&p along with cams and supporting parts, then 1k for install from what the guys that have done the install have said...that's 2500, then add an intake/tune for about 3k total (lca's, gears/locker/lsd would be needed, but you would want to do this stuff with a blower too so we are gonna say 4k total for everything you would want, maybe a little bit more.) so we have 4k for probably a high 13 second 4.0 vs a mid-high 13 sec 4.0 from say the x-charger or the lower boosting blowers (not the hi-po's) which will mostly run mid-high 13's. those systems cost near 4k without locker/lsd and gears, so throw on another 500 if you install yourself which MOST don't so let's say another 700-800 bucks. so total for a high 13 sec 4.0, as far as i can see right now, it seems that going n/a would be the way to go. Now remember, this is all just speculation, but the way i see it, if these gains hold true, this is the way to go for me and some others as i don't need a low 13/12 sec car and i want to maintain MAXIMUM reliability while modding....throw in some input guys.
edit: forgot to add, there is the possibility of a stroker kit down the road with this option too or even just going with higher cr pistons.
< Message edited by 8cd03gro -- 1/7/2007 4:39:56 PM >
this is really starting to get to my head because the projected numbers from what gash said and what would most likely be the outcome would put you around the power numbers of a new edge gt which runs real low 14's. with shorter gearing, and some suspension work that would pretty much tell us that a 4.0 with this kind of power would easily hit 13's....i just wish gash could actually release numbers with his p&p instead of just being able to say "over 20rwhp and even more torque."
So i was kinda crunching numbers in my head last night while i was laying in bed and i came to the conclusion that for these cars, the n/a situation really isn't that bad of a way to go. It is safe to say that mid 14's are attainable with just bolt ons. Now say you are at about 200rwhp with simple bolt ons and a tune, and what...220rwtq? now we haven't gotten solid info on how much heads and cams will do for us here, but gash on the **** forums said with JUST his p&p heads he saw considerably more than 20rwhp on top of his i think he had what 194 or something like that...and he is auto i beleive. and then he continued to say that the hp improvements were impressive but the torque improvements were FAR more impressive, so lets say (and this is being conservative) he saw 30rwtq. Now this would put him around 215-220rwhp and 250-260rwtq. That could easily put a 4.0 in low 14's or high 13's. Now from there, gash did not even get cams. let's say another 10rwhp (maybe a bit more) for some nice, not too extreme cams, and maybe another 10rwtq(for a total of about 230rwhp and maybe 270rwtq). so now we have what should definately be a high 13 sec 4.0 (with gears and an lsd/locker and maybe some lca's and a bit of other launching stuff). Now crunching the numbers, some nice ported and polished heads should cost around 1k. Then with some cams from say, delk for i think they want 380 and some springs and supporting mods...lets say 1500 for p&p along with cams and supporting parts, then 1k for install from what the guys that have done the install have said...that's 2500, then add an intake/tune for about 3k total (lca's, gears/locker/lsd would be needed, but you would want to do this stuff with a blower too so we are gonna say 4k total for everything you would want, maybe a little bit more.) so we have 4k for probably a high 13 second 4.0 vs a mid-high 13 sec 4.0 from say the x-charger or the lower boosting blowers (not the hi-po's) which will mostly run mid-high 13's. those systems cost near 4k without locker/lsd and gears, so throw on another 500 if you install yourself which MOST don't so let's say another 700-800 bucks. so total for a high 13 sec 4.0, as far as i can see right now, it seems that going n/a would be the way to go. Now remember, this is all just speculation, but the way i see it, if these gains hold true, this is the way to go for me and some others as i don't need a low 13/12 sec car and i want to maintain MAXIMUM reliability while modding....throw in some input guys.
edit: forgot to add, there is the possibility of a stroker kit down the road with this option too or even just going with higher cr pistons.
I have researched/ thought about going this route awhile ago when weighting my options and I would say of course over all I agree with you, I would do a few things different in this type of build up and disagree with you on a few things (don’t want to argue) but imo pretty much you are right on.
So if this is what you want I would go for it you would be the first going this complete route N.A.
< Message edited by Krazer -- 1/7/2007 5:21:37 PM >
im gonna try and squeeze some relative torque gains out of gash when the **** forums are back up, and if they are close to what i am looking for i am going to start.
check out flapjack. he has heads/cams from supersixmotorsports along with a procharger at 12psi. he made 364rwhp before heads and cams (holy ****!) and he said the difference was VERY noticable and he thinks it will be over 400rwhp. i guess his car is daily driven too, so if done right, it seems safe on the 4.0
u usually dont gain as much torque as u do HP on cams/heads just fyi, i know the real numbers, u are close on rwhp, but quite off on rwtq (hes on a mustang dyno too)
u usually dont gain as much torque as u do HP on cams/heads just fyi, i know the real numbers, u are close on rwhp, but quite off on rwtq (hes on a mustang dyno too)
gash said the torque gain was really big...? not necessarily peak power, but peak gain im sure is big if he said it was bigger than the hp gains... and he hasn't gotten cams, so how do you know the gains with heads and cams? a mustang dyno usually reads lower than dynojet doesn't it...so again, my estimates are conservative...please share if you have any info man.
man even matthw from delk performance thinks with a proper head/cam package which he says he will do if someone wants him to, could make clost to 260. that is ****ing insane even if he is 10-15rwhp high. and
< Message edited by 8cd03gro -- 1/7/2007 10:37:54 PM >
Someone at a local performance shop had the heads and cams done on his and the mechanic at the shop that did the install and dyno tune on in said they were able to get between 255 rwhp and 260 rwhp out of it. He didn't say how much torque though. I plan on going that route at some point, hopefully this spring. Later on in February or March I'm going to be getting all the details on the heads and cams install along with hp and tq numbers from t he performance shop before deciding on whether or not to do it this spring. I'll post the details then.
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2005 V6 manual, Mac shorty headers, dual exhaust w/h-pipe, Torsen T2 LSD, 3.73 gears, Ford racing sway bar kit, Steeda LCA/adjustable UCA, WMS CAI, SCT2 w/Excessive Motorsports dyno tune, Hurst short shifter.
I know, but theres got to be a ball park differnece so we can try to guess on what the gains are.
EDIT: Digging on the ranger forums now for some dynos.
well it seems that the consensus of alot of the pros is that 260 is pretty attainable. that's what matt of delk thinks, tom of ssm i beleive said that too and i can't remember for sure, but i think justin may have agreed? somewhere on v6power . hell if i can get 250-60rwhp out of heads and cams i would be very happy. i think this is definately doable and that would make for a very quick n/a sixer. i'd say 13's are definately happening with that power and supporting mods seeing what people are running now...with shorter gearing (maybe 4.1's probably 3.73's) a trutrac a good tune, some lca's, an intake and MAYBE some lth's(along with the heads and cams obviously) i can easily see being solidly into the 13's which is by all means awesome imo. oh baby all motor runnin with the gt's...now thats sexy. and that would make for one insane sleeper (which is basically my goal).
Yeah.... I'm liking those numbers.. I'm thinking I might work on a n/a build untill I win my dad over to a supercharger.... I can't wait to see flapjack's new numbers (after the heads and cams I mean..... do we have those yet btw?)
nope but i garuntee close to 400rwhp if not over. If nobody has heads and cams by april on an n/a sixer, i will if i don't go with the xcharger group buy on the 4.0collective (very tempting) i like the projected numbers and it seems that the projected numbers are from people with major experience so i trust them to be fairly accurate. even if they are on the low side of the predictions, i would be EXTREMELY happy with anywhere around 250rwhp numbers n/a and it seems all the pros think it is possible. with gears/locker that would make you run right with auto gt's (less torque, but also a good amount less weight and better gearing) and i would be happy with that. i also strongly beleive that with the majorly increased flow, freeing up the exhaust would give much better gains. id say after all the head work, lth's/ maybe totally decatted would be good for another 15rwhp, but that again is just another estimate.
not sure on the bore, but i beleive it is near it's limits in that aspect. Stroke on the other hand we have some room for. I beleive there is a 4.5 stroker in the works from somebody....
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hmmm n/a build is starting to look good. - 
. hell if i can get 250-60rwhp out of heads and cams i would be very happy. i think this is definately doable and that would make for a very quick n/a sixer. i'd say 13's are definately happening with that power and supporting mods seeing what people are running now...with shorter gearing (maybe 4.1's probably 3.73's) a trutrac a good tune, some lca's, an intake and MAYBE some lth's(along with the heads and cams obviously) i can easily see being solidly into the 13's which is by all means awesome imo. oh baby all motor runnin with the gt's...now thats sexy. and that would make for one insane sleeper (which is basically my goal). 