does anyone know where i can find the price or any info for that matter on the X-Charger. and will all this conversation abou boostin the engines. This is all done with stock internals? No cams, heads, pistons, or anything. Will our motors last like this?
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Eric 05 V6, Silver/Black Stripes C&L CAI, X-CAL II (brenspeed 93) Throttle Body Spacer, Eibach Sportline and the MRT Axle Back.....more to come with $$$ OPEN FOR SUGGESTIONS (anything but gt take-offs)
It seems the consensus is that our stock shortblock is fairly strong. there are more than a handful of people making over 300rwhp on the stock block and alot of them are driving the car daily, so as far as we know it's safe. There has been a bit of disagreement from some people which makes me uneasy about boosting because it was a few ford techs who said they would worry about any 4.0 over 300whp (mainly because of the pistons). That is part of the reason the x is great tho..it doesn't need to make 300rwhp to perform wonderfully. If you are going with the x-charger i wouldn't worry. The systems they offer seem to be very safe judging from the power levels and the IAT's. I personally am getting worried about how long our motors will last at over 300whp on a daily driven car (this is my only car) so if i go forced induction it will be with the x or if another turbo system comes out for a bit cheaper, probably turbo at about 6.5-7 psi. There are alot on here that will disagree with me tho and say it is all in the tune, which is true, but then again the more power you make, the more precise the tune is going to have to be to keep it safe. really, i would say the motor will be totally fine around 300rwhp or lower with a good tune, so just make sure you don't skimp on the details.
The gentleman above is correct on some points. However, it has been my experience that x-charging a stock engine is a coin toss. Just remember, the more power your engine makes, the hotter it gets, the faster the engine oil gets dirty and it gets dirtier too. The conn' rods are made to withstand quite a bit of punnishment over what the engine is tuned for. The pistons however are only stock pistons as with the rest of the stock parts. I've overhauled stock engines that were aftermarket x-charged over the years. I've seen scored cylinders, cracked pistons, pistons with holes burned through them, bent conn' rods and so on. 6 to 7 PSI boost is not necessarily safe but it is less brutal on a stock engine than higher pressures are for sure. In any case, if you use your x-charger a lot, expect pre-mature engine wear. I didn't say engine failure, it's just going to wear down faster/sooner than otherwise. That's keeping in mind that you change your oil regularly. If you do x-charge it, change the oil every time it starts to get dirty. Keep it squeeky (punn) clean and this will help a great deal. I mean with a stock engine it is very important to keep up with the regularly scheduled maintanance. With a modified / blown engine, it's imperative! If I were you, I'd make sure I always have the money stashed away to pay for a new engine,,,just in case! There are blown V6's out there running higher than normal boost levels. They are getting well more than 300 RWHP with turbo's and x-chargers. I'm not against boosting an engine's performance. Just remember Horst Power Costs Money both now and down the road! That's the rule of thumb to always keep in mind.
thanx so much. I just found my ultimate MOD. I will be doing this im just unsure when. Kinda lacking the $4500 and has anyone actually installed this item themselves. I am descent with my hand and im going to school for mechanics so i have a basic understanding of the way to do things.
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Eric 05 V6, Silver/Black Stripes C&L CAI, X-CAL II (brenspeed 93) Throttle Body Spacer, Eibach Sportline and the MRT Axle Back.....more to come with $$$ OPEN FOR SUGGESTIONS (anything but gt take-offs)
a few of us have installed them ourselfs i actually helped the owner of EE (i was the test mule) and i know 2 others that have done it themselfs in about 5-7 hours
I dunno too much about the xcharger other than it sounds mean and one day i want to try it but i daily drive my car and it has been boosted for quite a while no problems as of yet.
i think the xcharger is awesome, but i am just more and more skeptical about it being safe with the what...9 lb pulleys a few of you owners are running now without intercooling?! we get bad head soak already!
Eric 05 V6, Silver/Black Stripes C&L CAI, X-CAL II (brenspeed 93) Throttle Body Spacer, Eibach Sportline and the MRT Axle Back.....more to come with $$$ OPEN FOR SUGGESTIONS (anything but gt take-offs)
heat soak is after running the engine hard...or actually just running it, the IAT's go up because the air under the hood gets real hot and such. This can start to drain power over time and with a boosted application, high IAT's (intake air temperatures) are dangerous as it can cause knocking/detonation. knocking on an n/a motor isn't good but it isn't instant death to the motor. on a forced induction engine it can get REAL bad. More boost=more heat and an intercooler cools the charge air or pressurized air. Cooling the air like this can drop the temperatures alot and keep it safe. It will actually add power too because when the air is cold it is more compressed (denser) so when it is ignited with the fuel, it expands more which creates more power. without one most of the time, you don't want to run much boost usually over like 6-7psi, but somehow (i have yet to udnerstand it) a few xcharger owners were running 9-10 psi pulleys without any form of cooling . Now i think Nav is using meth injection, but afixer, aren't you running a 2.8? isn't that like 10 psi on an m90....you aren't running any kind of injection are you?
< Message edited by 8cd03gro -- 1/5/2007 4:28:43 PM >
Posts: 726
Joined: 8/17/2005 From: Boston, MA Status: online
Wolfey2K: You do know X-Charger is a specific brand name, right? not a generic abbreviation for supercharging. There's only about 1/2 a dozen in Mustangs so far (none of which have seen a failure of any sort to date as far as I know), so unless you've worked on a ton of the previous gen 4.0L truck X-Chargers, your comments seem a little unlikely.
As for additional wear, you're correct that's a factor in ANY high performance build. Making more power, whether it's via turbo, supercharger, nitrous whatever, will always stress an engine more than the same engine at a lower power output.
< Message edited by Torch_Vert -- 1/5/2007 4:38:02 PM >
heat soak is after running the engine hard...or actually just running it, the IAT's go up because the air under the hood gets real hot and such. This can start to drain power over time and with a boosted application, high IAT's (intake air temperatures) are dangerous as it can cause knocking/detonation. knocking on an n/a motor isn't good but it isn't instant death to the motor. on a forced induction engine it can get REAL bad. More boost=more heat and an intercooler cools the charge air or pressurized air. Cooling the air like this can drop the temperatures alot and keep it safe. It will actually add power too because when the air is cold it is more compressed (denser) so when it is ignited with the fuel, it expands more which creates more power. without one most of the time, you don't want to run much boost usually over like 6-7psi, but somehow (i have yet to udnerstand it) a few xcharger owners were running 9-10 psi pulleys without any form of cooling . Now i think Nav is using meth injection, but afixer, aren't you running a 2.8? isn't that like 10 psi on an m90....you aren't running any kind of injection are you?
quote:
Ocd03gro] you don't want to run much boost usually over like 6-7psi, but somehow (i have yet to udnerstand it) a few xcharger owners were running 9-10 psi pulleys without any form of cooling . Now i think Nav is using meth injection, but afixer, aren't you running a 2.8? isn't that like 10 psi on an m90....you aren't running any kind of injection are you?
Ocd03gro a intercooler generally is not needed in the 8-9 psi range (check links below) & under the MP 90 X Charger is also a newer design roots type S/C which runs cooler than earlier (vs the earlier X Charger m 60 ) models if I remember correctly due to the coated and different blades also has a larger intake S inlet opening. I would imo run an intercooler if I was running a 8-9psi or higher with a centri S/C or turbo.
The IAT (incomig air temps) running the 9psi pulley (2.80) with the water injection which acts as an intercooler is around 115-130 (low temps) which is VERY good imo. Even without the water injection the temps are safe running the 2.80 pulley according to Doug (ASE Ford tech) who tune and tested the X Charger, imo I would run the water injection if I had the X running the 2.80 pulley but would feel safe running it witout water injection according to Doug testing and report if I had to..
Ocd03gro question for you, do you know what the IAT on a 10 psi turbo w/intercooler model like the PH sells for our Mustangs run??? I think you might be surprised!
For the record Nav is not running meth or water injection and affixer I believe is now running the 3.00 pulley now but was running the 2.80 without water injection.
Also Doug said in a manual running the 2.80 pulley with the water injection would pull over 300rwhp and 310rwtq.
http://www.machperformanceparts.com/mp/cat-superchargers.html The cooler air provides a denser air charge which can make added horsepower, especially under higher boost conditions. Intercoolers and aftercoolers, while popular for racing applications, are not normally needed for street drivers running 6 to 9 psi of boost.
< Message edited by Krazer -- 1/5/2007 6:26:05 PM >
yeah they pretty much hit the nail on the head... torch i was wondering the same thing about if he knows x is a brand LOL
The only thing i think you really have to worry about with the x charger is that the engine will probably take a little more abuse than the other power adders, simply because the boost comes in so early...centrifugal and turbos reach boost with a more rpms than the X, which means it is easier to stay outa the boost, thats one of the good things about a super or turbo charger, if you stay low in the rpm's your barely running any boost....but the X produces it LOW (which is GREAT for seat of the pants!) but it also means its harder to stay outa of the boost in normal driving situations...
Those are my thoughts on the subject! Oh and Bscottie(Kuik6er) is the only one i know of running the HIPO and Water/Meth injection
The only thing i think you really have to worry about with the x charger is that the engine will probably take a little more abuse than the other power adders, simply because the boost comes in so early...centrifugal and turbos reach boost with a more rpms than the X, which means it is easier to stay outa the boost, thats one of the good things about a super or turbo charger, if you stay low in the rpm's your barely running any boost....but the X produces it LOW (which is GREAT for seat of the pants!) but it also means its harder to stay outa of the boost in normal driving situations...
Those are my thoughts on the subject! Oh and Bscottie(Kuik6er) is the only one i know of running the HIPO and Water/Meth injection
That is not correct let me explain the X Charger has a built in bypass valve which means you can drive around without boost until you hit the gas pedal hard so you could drive around and not be under boost . Its only when you hit the gas pedal hard that boost will come due to the bypass valve.
The turbo starts making boost builds full boost by 3K rpm and the centri starts making boost at 3-3.5k rpm so in both cases with you motor will be under boost when you hit and exceed those rpms everytime.
On the other hand unlike the above examples with the X Charger you can hit those rpms and higher and not be under boost (bypassvalve) normal driving as long as you are not hard into the gas. So the abuse as you say in your above post you will have more with the X charger than the other above FI systems per your example is not correct.
< Message edited by Krazer -- 1/5/2007 9:23:17 PM >
The bypass valve only opens on " cruise, deceleration, idle and coast" (per EE website)...so anytime your accelerating you will be under boost....no matter the throttle... BUT im sure this will help greatly with wear and tear making it comparable with the other systems... Overall this is a great system and IMO one of the best (behind turbo) and the best for the money...if only it could be fitted with an intercooler it would be the best system on the market
The bypass valve only opens on " cruise, deceleration, idle and coast" (per EE website)...so anytime your accelerating you will be under boost....no matter the throttle... BUT im sure this will help greatly with wear and tear making it comparable with the other systems... Overall this is a great system and IMO one of the best (behind turbo) and the best for the money...if only it could be fitted with an intercooler it would be the best system on the market
Sonic05 you can acclerate easy with the X Charger and not be under boost (due to the bypassvalve) its when you acclerate hard then the bypass valve will close and then boost will come on. So you accelerate easy normal driving and not be under boost which is another feature I like about the X charger.
< Message edited by Krazer -- 1/5/2007 9:31:51 PM >
The only thing i think you really have to worry about with the x charger is that the engine will probably take a little more abuse than the other power adders, simply because the boost comes in so early...centrifugal and turbos reach boost with a more rpms than the X, which means it is easier to stay outa the boost, thats one of the good things about a super or turbo charger, if you stay low in the rpm's your barely running any boost....but the X produces it LOW (which is GREAT for seat of the pants!) but it also means its harder to stay outa of the boost in normal driving situations...
Those are my thoughts on the subject! Oh and Bscottie(Kuik6er) is the only one i know of running the HIPO and Water/Meth injection
That is not correct let me explain the X Charger has a built in bypass valve which means you can drive around without boost until you hit the gas pedal hard so you could drive around and not be under boost . Its only when you hit the gas pedal hard that boost will come due to the bypass valve.
The turbo starts making boost builds full boost by 3K rpm and the centri starts making boost at 3-3.5k rpm so in both cases with you motor will be under boost when you hit and exceed those rpms everytime.
On the other hand unlike the above examples with the X Charger you can hit those rpms and higher and not be under boost (bypassvalve) normal driving as long as you are not hard into the gas. So the abuse as you say in your above post you will have more with the X charger than the other above FI systems per your example is not correct.
Yep, I've driven the x, centri (pro charger) and the turbo. And regardless of which one you buy, YOU CAN drive under boost if you want to. On the turbo comparing it to the X for off the line performance, there is about a 500 rpm difference. The X builds around 200ish rwtq at 2000 rpm and the turbo builds around 220ish rwtq around 2500 rpm.
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Best 1/4: 10.97@122.09, 1.56 60ft w/4.0 V6 Best 1/4: 11.67@115.45, 1.64 60ft w/5.4 3V Best 1/8: 7.401@92.77, 1.65 60ft w/5.4 3V www.rygen.net/stang
only problem if i was to get any of the set-ups mentioned here i would always be "in the boost" my driving style is as we say "spirited" or "bat out of hell". Get what i mean. Not a big deal if engine breaks on me by 80K miles, im at 19k already. I mean it is a big deal but i don't think the car will last me that long anyways. Maybe 100k miles till i upgrade and put her in the garage for a new school resto-mod.
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Eric 05 V6, Silver/Black Stripes C&L CAI, X-CAL II (brenspeed 93) Throttle Body Spacer, Eibach Sportline and the MRT Axle Back.....more to come with $$$ OPEN FOR SUGGESTIONS (anything but gt take-offs)
The only thing i think you really have to worry about with the x charger is that the engine will probably take a little more abuse than the other power adders, simply because the boost comes in so early...centrifugal and turbos reach boost with a more rpms than the X, which means it is easier to stay outa the boost, thats one of the good things about a super or turbo charger, if you stay low in the rpm's your barely running any boost....but the X produces it LOW (which is GREAT for seat of the pants!) but it also means its harder to stay outa of the boost in normal driving situations...
Those are my thoughts on the subject! Oh and Bscottie(Kuik6er) is the only one i know of running the HIPO and Water/Meth injection
That is not correct let me explain the X Charger has a built in bypass valve which means you can drive around without boost until you hit the gas pedal hard so you could drive around and not be under boost . Its only when you hit the gas pedal hard that boost will come due to the bypass valve.
The turbo starts making boost builds full boost by 3K rpm and the centri starts making boost at 3-3.5k rpm so in both cases with you motor will be under boost when you hit and exceed those rpms everytime.
On the other hand unlike the above examples with the X Charger you can hit those rpms and higher and not be under boost (bypassvalve) normal driving as long as you are not hard into the gas. So the abuse as you say in your above post you will have more with the X charger than the other above FI systems per your example is not correct.
Yep, I've driven the x, centri (pro charger) and the turbo. And regardless of which one you buy, YOU CAN drive under boost if you want to. On the turbo comparing it to the X for off the line performance, there is about a 500 rpm difference. The X builds around 200ish rwtq at 2000 rpm and the turbo builds around 220ish rwtq around 2500 rpm.
rygenstormlocke but ulike the turbo and centri you can drive the X Charger and accelerate and let the car wind up past 2500-3000 rpms (past 2500-3000 rpm your under boost with the turbo)and higher under no boost as long as you are not hard into the pedal (bypassvalve) with the turbo or centri when you hit those rpms you are under boost. You have to really drive the car make sure to stay under the turbo and centri rpm boost limit but with the X Charger you don't you can exceed those rpms let the car wind out a little and and not be under boost under light accelerating..
That was one of the points I was trying to make to sonnic05.
The only thing i think you really have to worry about with the x charger is that the engine will probably take a little more abuse than the other power adders, simply because the boost comes in so early...centrifugal and turbos reach boost with a more rpms than the X, which means it is easier to stay outa the boost, thats one of the good things about a super or turbo charger, if you stay low in the rpm's your barely running any boost....but the X produces it LOW (which is GREAT for seat of the pants!) but it also means its harder to stay outa of the boost in normal driving situations...
Those are my thoughts on the subject! Oh and Bscottie(Kuik6er) is the only one i know of running the HIPO and Water/Meth injection
That is not correct let me explain the X Charger has a built in bypass valve which means you can drive around without boost until you hit the gas pedal hard so you could drive around and not be under boost . Its only when you hit the gas pedal hard that boost will come due to the bypass valve.
The turbo starts making boost builds full boost by 3K rpm and the centri starts making boost at 3-3.5k rpm so in both cases with you motor will be under boost when you hit and exceed those rpms everytime.
On the other hand unlike the above examples with the X Charger you can hit those rpms and higher and not be under boost (bypassvalve) normal driving as long as you are not hard into the gas. So the abuse as you say in your above post you will have more with the X charger than the other above FI systems per your example is not correct.
Yep, I've driven the x, centri (pro charger) and the turbo. And regardless of which one you buy, YOU CAN drive under boost if you want to. On the turbo comparing it to the X for off the line performance, there is about a 500 rpm difference. The X builds around 200ish rwtq at 2000 rpm and the turbo builds around 220ish rwtq around 2500 rpm.
rygenstormlocke but ulike the turbo and centri you can drive the X Charger and accelerate and let the car wind up past 2500-3000 rpms (past 2500-3000 rpm your under boost with the turbo)and higher under no boost as long as you are not hard into the pedal (bypassvalve) with the turbo or centri when you hit those rpms you are under boost. You have to really drive the car make sure to stay under the turbo and centri rpm boost limit but with the X Charger you don't you can exceed those rpms let the car wind out a little and and not be under boost under light accelerating..
That was one of the points I was trying to make to sonnic05.
To any X Charger guys please post if I am wrong.
Well, when I test drove the X. I didn't test for that, because I drove like I stole it. But one of the X guys can confirm.
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Best 1/4: 10.97@122.09, 1.56 60ft w/4.0 V6 Best 1/4: 11.67@115.45, 1.64 60ft w/5.4 3V Best 1/8: 7.401@92.77, 1.65 60ft w/5.4 3V www.rygen.net/stang
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X-Charger and boost questions - 
but i daily drive my car and it has been boosted for quite a while no problems as of yet.
. Now i think Nav is using meth injection, but afixer, aren't you running a 2.8? isn't that like 10 psi on an m90....you aren't running any kind of injection are you?
