Talk about a sleeper this would be sick sick sick!!!
In a bone stock looking V6 ext wise.
If one was to go turbo your talking around $6,000.00 installed (or S/C on STILL stock internals) then either beef up the 7.5 or go 8.8.
Check it out complete motor below what else would we need? Headers, lower K frame supports, motor mounts, tune, trans optional or down the road, radatior (?) misc hoses, clamps etc. This is the way to go I am sure I am forgetting some parts but little excited thinking about the prospect of this. It might sound like a lot of $$$ at first but when you think about it its not sounding so bad! This is not just a 4.6 or stock 5.4 N.A, just thinking here if for some reson the 4.0 went south S/C or T/C you would be close to the cost of this setup.
quote:
Own the most extreme motor Ford Motor Company has ever produced in a Mustang, the 5.4 Supercharged GT500 motor. Motor comes brand new from Ford Motor company with a warranty, completely dressed with all attached components including the monstrous Supercharger rated at 500hp. Motor can be shipped via truck freight usually within two days. Call for more details! Be the first on your block with a GT500 in your project vehicle! $13.999.00
you still need alot more than even tranny and motor AND all electronics. that motor weighs, what 500 pounds more than the 4.0? you will need tons of suspension work, probably some frame strengthening, etc. total you are looking at way more than the performance it will give is worth.
that with everything needed is gonna be at least 17 grand.
built block + turbo kit + new 6 speed tranny maybe t56 or something of the sort + rear end +some suspension work and other little stuff = less than 15 grand and more power easy.
you still need alot more than even tranny and motor AND all electronics. that motor weighs, what 500 pounds more than the 4.0? you will need tons of suspension work, probably some frame strengthening, etc. total you are looking at way more than the performance it will give is worth. that with everything needed is gonna be at least 17 grand.
On the suspension (on a Pony Package) I mentioned the K frames from the GT 500 the only thing else I could see would be maybe front springs as far as supension you would not need tons of suspension (K frames & springs) work.
quote:
built block + turbo kit + new 6 speed tranny maybe t56 or something of the sort + rear end +some suspension work and other little stuff = less than 15 grand and more power easy.
I don't know about that ("more power easy")that Evo Shelby GT 500 S/C 5.4 went high 9's with a 75 shot.
Just thinking if one was to trade in thier V6 on a GT you talking around your car and 14-15 K and thats with a 4.6 motor I don't know I still like the ideal.
< Message edited by Krazer -- 12/6/2006 8:52:23 PM >
Wait a minute. If you're going to invest even 6K much less 13K and some change into a b-flat pony, even one with a GT look alike package, I would think it best to consider purchasing another ride with the power plant in it already? I think it's called a Shelby GT 500? They base at around $45K if you can find a dealer that won't try to tack on an additional 10 or 20K for shiz and grins that is.
There is plenty you can do with your 6 banger. You can add a super charger or even turbo charge 'it' and make anywhere from 350 to 600 HP at the rear wheels. Of course you'll want to upgrade the tranny to handle the added torque. Wouldn't hurt to convert the rear end into a posi either.
Just my opinions. I wouldn't waste the bucks on converting a 6 banger stang into a V8 anything. They are just fine the way they are.
I'd go get myself a GT or Shelby then start from there. ;-)..
Maybe in 2009 if the new dream stang comes out 'oh god I hope so', I'll go pick one up ;-). Yeah!
Wait a minute. If you're going to invest even 6K much less 13K and some change into a b-flat pony, even one with a GT look alike package, I would think it best to consider purchasing another ride with the power plant in it already? I think it's called a Shelby GT 500? They base at around $45K if you can find a dealer that won't try to tack on an additional 10 or 20K for shiz and grins that is.
If you could find a GT 500 for $45 I haven't seen any :) more like $60k and up with 15-16K trade in value I would have to put in around 40- 45K plus my car.
quote:
There is plenty you can do with your 6 banger. You can add a super charger or even turbo charge 'it' and make anywhere from 350 to 600 HP at the rear wheels. Of course you'll want to upgrade the tranny to handle the added torque. Wouldn't hurt to convert the rear end into a posi either.
I haven't seen any 4.0 put any where near 600 hp at the rear wheels and to do that your talking $6K T/C installed and then around 4- $5k on a built bottom end.
quote:
Just my opinions. I wouldn't waste the bucks on converting a 6 banger stang into a V8 anything. They are just fine the way they are.
I'd go get myself a GT or Shelby then start from there. ;-)..
Maybe in 2009 if the new dream stang comes out 'oh god I hope so', I'll go pick one up ;-). Yeah!
Wolfey
I rather have a 5.4 S/C in my V6 car than a 4.6 GT and not interested in giving my car and around 45K for a Shelby GT 500 imo, anyway just bouncing this off you guys and seeing what you guys opinions are :)
< Message edited by Krazer -- 12/6/2006 9:20:56 PM >
Hey, the 6 bang GT version stang is a schueet ride. Don't get me wrong. I own one. An 07. I don't need a V8 or the extra expense associated with the GT anyway. The 4.0 is plenty of power for a light car like the stang at any rate and it gets better gas mileage.
Yes, you can dual turbocharge a V6 and get 600 RWHP no problemo. Look it up if you don't believe me. Sure you'd want to beef up the bottom end, port the heads, change the cam etc., improve the suspension etc. Horse Power costs money. That's all there is to it.
All I am saying 'and I'll down grade a bit here' is at least get yourself a GT and start from there.
By the way, I recently saw a brand spankin new Shelby GT500 out here in Tysons Corner Virginia for a mere $54K. I could probably drive it off the show room floor for around 49 to 52K.
Sorry to say but dealers will not negotiate on those mark-ups. If the GT 500 is marked as 54k then you can bet it will go for 54k. I went through trying to talk dealers down on their mark-ups when looking for a GT a year and half ago. They wouldn't. That's why I bought a six.
If I had the money and wanted that much horsepower I wouldn't think twice about dropping the 5.4 in. It's more expensive than beefing up a six but it also has more hp than you can probably get out of the six.
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2005 V6 manual, Mac shorty headers, dual exhaust w/h-pipe, Torsen T2 LSD, 3.73 gears, Ford racing sway bar kit, Steeda LCA/adjustable UCA, WMS CAI, SCT2 w/Excessive Motorsports dyno tune, Hurst short shifter.
Hey, the 6 bang GT version stang is a schueet ride. Don't get me wrong. I own one. An 07. I don't need a V8 or the extra expense associated with the GT anyway. The 4.0 is plenty of power for a light car like the stang at any rate and it gets better gas mileage.
Yes, you can dual turbocharge a V6 and get 600 RWHP no problemo. Look it up if you don't believe me. Sure you'd want to beef up the bottom end, port the heads, change the cam etc., improve the suspension etc. Horse Power costs money. That's all there is to it.
All I am saying 'and I'll down grade a bit here' is at least get yourself a GT and start from there.
By the way, I recently saw a brand spankin new Shelby GT500 out here in Tysons Corner Virginia for a mere $54K. I could probably drive it off the show room floor for around 49 to 52K.
Wolfey
another person that thinks twin turbocharging a car will give you more horsepower than a single turbo. sure 600rwhp is possible with a 4.0 v6, with thousands and thousands of dollars in upgrade, but "no problemo" gimme a break.
with the stock CR, it would probably take nearly 28psi to hit 600rwhp.
Hey, the 6 bang GT version stang is a schueet ride. Don't get me wrong. I own one. An 07. I don't need a V8 or the extra expense associated with the GT anyway. The 4.0 is plenty of power for a light car like the stang at any rate and it gets better gas mileage.
Yes, you can dual turbocharge a V6 and get 600 RWHP no problemo. Look it up if you don't believe me. Sure you'd want to beef up the bottom end, port the heads, change the cam etc., improve the suspension etc. Horse Power costs money. That's all there is to it.
All I am saying 'and I'll down grade a bit here' is at least get yourself a GT and start from there.
By the way, I recently saw a brand spankin new Shelby GT500 out here in Tysons Corner Virginia for a mere $54K. I could probably drive it off the show room floor for around 49 to 52K.
Wolfey
another person that thinks twin turbocharging a car will give you more horsepower than a single turbo. sure 600rwhp is possible with a 4.0 v6, with thousands and thousands of dollars in upgrade, but "no problemo" gimme a break.
with the stock CR, it would probably take nearly 28psi to hit 600rwhp.
twins dont give you more power necessarily, but with 600rwhp a single is going to be a slower car than a twin. twin vs single with same peak power, the twins win. ever seen the 1krwhp supras with big singles? they still run 10's cause they lag so ****ing much. twins making 600rwhp= almost no lag with huge power. you are going to need a ton of work to make 600rwhp, but then again...the 5.4l costs 14 grand.....
i'd much rather get the 5.0l cammer anyway if i was gonna do a swap. 450hp all motor baby.
Hey guys I know a ASE certified tech at Ford who is top notch and is knowledgeable building Ford cars for the track so I am awaiting his response and opinion to the below e-mail I just sent him.
If any good info results in a favorably way I will post it for guys thinking or considering a V8 swap vs buying a GT etc. One thing I would also like to mention that price of $13,999 for the S/C 5.4 listed is retail one might be able to get a better price than that.
quote:
Hi xxxxx
I just wanted to touch bases with you believe it or not that PH turbo is still not ready for mail order, one reason the guy has a busy auto shop and is racer so might not be high on his list of things to do I think. I have to do something in the few couple months.
I need some input I have a new ideal/ with a product on the market for my car, first I want to say of course I have thought about trading in on a GT 4.6 but would cost me 15K plus my car then if I want to S/C another 6-7k on a twin screw . I also know about the Bullit and Boss rumored coming out but am sure you are looking at around 45K with mark up. I also looked at GT 500 money wise just a s a comparison to what my new ideal is below. So looking at that they are going for 55-60k they would want my car and around 45K so taking all of the above in consideration the below looks expensive but really might not be to bad after thinking about it.
( Check out link of this GT 500 running high 9’s with a 75 shot.) http://www.evoperform.com/GT500/9.wmv I’d also like to mention this guy has also run 11’s then high 10’s without the aid of nitrous so this 5.4 has nice capabilities in pretty much stock bolt on form.
I just found out you can buy the GT 500 5.4 supercharged complete motor (see attached photo in e-mail) from Ford with warranty for around 12K see quote below. “Own the most extreme motor Ford Motor Company has ever produced in a Mustang, the 5.4 Supercharged GT500 motor. Motor comes brand new from Ford Motor company with a warranty, completely dressed with all attached components including the monstrous Supercharger rated at 500hp. Motor can be shipped via truck freight usually within two days. Call for more details! Be the first on your block with a GT500 in your project vehicle!”
Ok I know I would need a 8.8 and trans which I would do with a turbo most likely do anyway. But the trans would be down the road not right now.
So what else would I need with this motor and ballpark cost? I know motor mounts, K frame members, exhaust manifolds/headers, (already have dual exhaust) front springs, radiator? Would I be able to just setup the computer with a tune from one the ( Evoloution etc) tuners? Or would I need more and would this complete motor come with it?
I mean I could put together a decent 5.4 S/C car together (capable of high 10 sec ET’s ) vs buying a GT with investment w/TS around $21K (plus my car) still only be a 4.6 and a lot less than GT 500. This would be like my own SE or SVT and would be a decent fast street car that would hold it’s own pretty good with most OEM cars on the street.
8cd03gro i'd much rather get the 5.0l cammer anyway if i was gonna do a swap. 450hp all motor baby.
The Crammer 5.0 engine is rated at 400 BHP which is around 360rwhp and rated at 365 ft/lbs tq . I am curious to your reason why would you prefer the 5.0 Crammer over the 5.4 GT 500 motor?
5.4 GT 500 is rated at 500 BHP motor will produce (w/CAI & Tune) 500rwhp/502rwtq and this is on a Mustang dynamometer not a dynojet, you also wouldn't have the low end rwhp & rwtq down low with the Crammer you would with a roots S/C 5.4
The stock 5..4 has around 100 BHP over the Crammer and with an added option of the KB 2.8 (726 – 810 rwhp) if one wanted at 726 HP would be capable of around 366 -/+ more HP.
The Crammer 5.0 is also not FI friendly running 11.1 CR and on the other hand the 5.4 was built from Ford for FI also using the high flowing heads from the Supercharged Ford GT.
The 5.4 with just the following bolt on items ran in the 10's. 578rwhp 582rwtq
JLT CAI Tune or/x 2.6 P Borla Exhaust Drag radails 4.10 gears
I just can not see why you would want a Crammer motor over this 5.4.
< Message edited by Krazer -- 12/10/2006 11:49:34 AM >
By the way, I recently saw a brand spankin new Shelby GT500 out here in Tysons Corner Virginia for a mere $54K. I could probably drive it off the show room floor for around 49 to 52K.
Wolfey
Not to burst your bubble, but I doubt it can be had for 52k. That particular car in Tysons was offered to me for 67K. No thanks.
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Best 1/4: 10.97@122.09, 1.56 60ft w/4.0 V6 Best 1/4: 11.67@115.45, 1.64 60ft w/5.4 3V Best 1/8: 7.401@92.77, 1.65 60ft w/5.4 3V www.rygen.net/stang
they prolly make the frames lighter on the v6 also...wouldn't wanna crack a frame now would we ?
All S197's share the same frame
+1 on the same frame.
Rygenstormlock awesome car you have built ! I can’t say enough and have been looking forward to seeing the specs on your new setup looks like you will be taking the 4.0 to even faster ET!
I was going to go FI on the 4.0 and even thought about a trade in toward a GT (for awhile no more) but since the new arrival of this complete motor which I just found out about and am in the process of researching a swap so if things keep looking good with a swap I will go this route .
Best to you I know you will do well and I will be monitoring your progress in the future even if I go V8.
< Message edited by Krazer -- 12/10/2006 3:12:24 PM >
I did a long time ago talk to a shop that was shoe horning Terminators into the S197 V6. The guy on the phone said total cost was 28K.
I am hoping around 20k or under (8.8 $500.00? but will keep stock tran for now motor 12K-14k) will know when I hear back from this Ford tech will post break down from him.
Misc parts since this is a complete motor designed for the S197 which doesn’t look to be long list ballpark maybe $2.5-3k?
Labor book labor if you have a dealer do it 20-25 hours ($2-$2.5K) ball park, I will save here Ford tech I know will do it as a side job so I should save a nice chunk here off the above rate not paying dealer rates. I am also thinking as some complete motors come with engine management. I have a 2 1/2 car garage to do the swap in but according to previous conversations with my Ford tech they are able do side jobs at dealership so that is also a option but perfer to do it in my garage.
The above is just my rough estimate.
I am hoping to do it for around 20k +/- (maybe as low as 17K?) as of now looks to me could be possible still waiting for futher info on costs..
Also will be able to sell my 4.0 motor.
Could you give a break down of the cost that you remember for that 28K?
< Message edited by Krazer -- 12/10/2006 4:50:09 PM >
Hey, the 6 bang GT version stang is a schueet ride. Don't get me wrong. I own one. An 07. I don't need a V8 or the extra expense associated with the GT anyway. The 4.0 is plenty of power for a light car like the stang at any rate and it gets better gas mileage.
Yes, you can dual turbocharge a V6 and get 600 RWHP no problemo. Look it up if you don't believe me. Sure you'd want to beef up the bottom end, port the heads, change the cam etc., improve the suspension etc. Horse Power costs money. That's all there is to it.
All I am saying 'and I'll down grade a bit here' is at least get yourself a GT and start from there.
By the way, I recently saw a brand spankin new Shelby GT500 out here in Tysons Corner Virginia for a mere $54K. I could probably drive it off the show room floor for around 49 to 52K.
Wolfey
another person that thinks twin turbocharging a car will give you more horsepower than a single turbo. sure 600rwhp is possible with a 4.0 v6, with thousands and thousands of dollars in upgrade, but "no problemo" gimme a break.
with the stock CR, it would probably take nearly 28psi to hit 600rwhp.
twins dont give you more power necessarily, but with 600rwhp a single is going to be a slower car than a twin. twin vs single with same peak power, the twins win. ever seen the 1krwhp supras with big singles? they still run 10's cause they lag so ****ing much. twins making 600rwhp= almost no lag with huge power. you are going to need a ton of work to make 600rwhp, but then again...the 5.4l costs 14 grand.....
i'd much rather get the 5.0l cammer anyway if i was gonna do a swap. 450hp all motor baby.
twins wont always be quicker than a single. For one, look at our car, peak boost at 3k rpm, i launch higher than that, so where would twins benefit me?
i have 3 friends with single turbo supras running 8s and 9s and another with a single turbo conversion dodge stealth running 10.1 (3900 lb car)
yes the twins spool up quicker, but that wasnt what he was implying, he said twins too make 600rwhp, it is A LOT easier to make a single turbo hit 600rwhp than twins, easier to tune, easier to install, less maintanence, etc.
good rule of thumb is twins for a mean "street before track" machine, and a single for a "track before street" machine.
8cd03gro i'd much rather get the 5.0l cammer anyway if i was gonna do a swap. 450hp all motor baby.
The Crammer 5.0 engine is rated at 400 BHP which is around 360rwhp and rated at 365 ft/lbs tq . I am curious to your reason why would you prefer the 5.0 Crammer over the 5.4 GT 500 motor?
5.4 GT 500 is rated at 500 BHP motor will produce (w/CAI & Tune) 500rwhp/502rwtq and this is on a Mustang dynamometer not a dynojet, you also wouldn't have the low end rwhp & rwtq down low with the Crammer you would with a roots S/C 5.4
The stock 5..4 has around 100 BHP over the Crammer and with an added option of the KB 2.8 (726 – 810 rwhp) if one wanted at 726 HP would be capable of around 366 -/+ more HP.
The Crammer 5.0 is also not FI friendly running 11.1 CR and on the other hand the 5.4 was built from Ford for FI also using the high flowing heads from the Supercharged Ford GT.
The 5.4 with just the following bolt on items ran in the 10's. 578rwhp 582rwtq
JLT CAI Tune or/x 2.6 P Borla Exhaust Drag radails 4.10 gears
I just can not see why you would want a Crammer motor over this 5.4.
i was under the impression the cammer was rated at 420hp... that motor is far lighter than the 5.4 too. dude ot the wait difference, i beleive the 5.0 would run right with the 5.4 if not faster. i think with the 5.0l cammer and a proper tranny/suspension setup you would run 11's easy. Get some work done, maybe some head work and some nice cams and you'd definately be running some real nice times. the 5.4 is REDICULOUSLY heavy. why do you think ford doesn't use it in grand am or any of their race specific cars? horsepower sells cars, but it doesn't necessarily dictate how well the car performs.I just think if you are gonna do a motor swap, why the hell would you swap to a gt500 motor? in 1-2 years you are gonna be able to get a gt500 for somewhere at least close to msrp. even if it is 5k more than sticker price, you are still talking just over 50k. If you set up your 6 with the 5.4 swap, a proper tranny/suspension setup you are talking the 20k price of the 6, plus at least another 20k and there is no way in hell you are going to be able to sell it for nearly as much as a gt500...most people will not spend nearly what a car is worth when it has a motor swap or something of the sort. and if you got in an accident, all of that would be gone. not covered by insurance. I just think, if you are going to do something crazy like this, do something you can not buy anywhere. Do something past crazy. GO INSANE WITH IT. If you have a ton of extra money and it doesnt bother you to flush all that cash down the drain when you sell the car then do what you want i guess. If i was gonna do it, i'd go with the 5.0l cammer, but i personally wouldn't do it at all.
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Complete GT 500 Supercharged 5.4 in a V6 - 
