Complete GT 500 Supercharged 5.4 in a V6 [Archive]

Krazer

12-06-2006, 11:08 PM

ORIGINAL: wolfey2k

Wait a minute.
If you're going to invest even 6K much less 13K and some change into a b-flat pony, even one with a GT look alike package, I would think it best to consider purchasing another ride with the power plant in it already? I think it's called a Shelby GT 500?
They base at around $45K if you can find a dealer that won't try to tack on an additional 10 or 20K for shiz and grins that is.

If you could find a GT 500 for $45 I haven't seen any :) more like $60k and up with 15-16K trade in value I would have to put in around 40- 45K plus my car.

There is plenty you can do with your 6 banger. You can add a super charger or even turbo charge 'it' and make anywhere from 350 to 600 HP at the rear wheels. Of course you'll want to upgrade the tranny to handle the added torque. Wouldn't hurt to convert the rear end into a posi either.

I haven't seen any 4.0 put any where near 600 hp at the rear wheels and to do that your talking $6K T/C installed and then around 4- $5k on a built bottom end.

Just my opinions.
I wouldn't waste the bucks on converting a 6 banger stang into a V8 anything.
They are just fine the way they are.

I'd go get myself a GT or Shelby then start from there. ;-)..

Maybe in 2009 if the new dream stang comes out 'oh god I hope so', I'll go pick one up ;-). Yeah!

Wolfey

I rather have a 5.4 S/C in my V6 car than a 4.6 GT and not interested in giving my car and around 45K for a Shelby GT 500 imo, anyway just bouncing this off you guys and seeing what you guys opinions are :)

wolfey2k

12-06-2006, 11:30 PM

Hey, the 6 bang GT version stang is a schueet ride. Don't get me wrong. I own one. An 07.
I don't need a V8 or the extra expense associated with the GT anyway. The 4.0 is plenty of power for a light car like the stang at any rate and it gets better gas mileage.

Yes, you can dual turbocharge a V6 and get 600 RWHP no problemo. Look it up if you don't believe me.
Sure you'd want to beef up the bottom end, port the heads, change the cam etc., improve the suspension etc.
Horse Power costs money. That's all there is to it.

All I am saying 'and I'll down grade a bit here' is at least get yourself a GT and start from there.

By the way, I recently saw a brand spankin new Shelby GT500 out here in Tysons Corner Virginia for a mere $54K.
I could probably drive it off the show room floor for around 49 to 52K.

Wolfey

Jerseyfury2

12-06-2006, 11:36 PM

they prolly make the frames lighter on the v6 also...wouldn't wanna crack a frame now would we ?

vb101

12-07-2006, 12:44 AM

Sorry to say but dealers will not negotiate on those mark-ups. If the GT 500 is marked as 54k then you can bet it will go for 54k. I went through trying to talk dealers down on their mark-ups when looking for a GT a year and half ago. They wouldn't. That's why I bought a six.

If I had the money and wanted that much horsepower I wouldn't think twice about dropping the 5.4 in. It's more expensive than beefing up a six but it also has more hp than you can probably get out of the six.

fazm

12-07-2006, 02:04 AM

ORIGINAL: wolfey2k

Hey, the 6 bang GT version stang is a schueet ride. Don't get me wrong. I own one. An 07.
I don't need a V8 or the extra expense associated with the GT anyway. The 4.0 is plenty of power for a light car like the stang at any rate and it gets better gas mileage.

Yes, you can dual turbocharge a V6 and get 600 RWHP no problemo. Look it up if you don't believe me.
Sure you'd want to beef up the bottom end, port the heads, change the cam etc., improve the suspension etc.
Horse Power costs money. That's all there is to it.

All I am saying 'and I'll down grade a bit here' is at least get yourself a GT and start from there.

By the way, I recently saw a brand spankin new Shelby GT500 out here in Tysons Corner Virginia for a mere $54K.
I could probably drive it off the show room floor for around 49 to 52K.

Wolfey

another person that thinks twin turbocharging a car will give you more horsepower than a single turbo. sure 600rwhp is possible with a 4.0 v6, with thousands and thousands of dollars in upgrade, but "no problemo" gimme a break.

with the stock CR, it would probably take nearly 28psi to hit 600rwhp.

8cd03gro

12-07-2006, 01:39 PM

ORIGINAL: fazm

ORIGINAL: wolfey2k

Hey, the 6 bang GT version stang is a schueet ride. Don't get me wrong. I own one. An 07.
I don't need a V8 or the extra expense associated with the GT anyway. The 4.0 is plenty of power for a light car like the stang at any rate and it gets better gas mileage.

Yes, you can dual turbocharge a V6 and get 600 RWHP no problemo. Look it up if you don't believe me.
Sure you'd want to beef up the bottom end, port the heads, change the cam etc., improve the suspension etc.
Horse Power costs money. That's all there is to it.

All I am saying 'and I'll down grade a bit here' is at least get yourself a GT and start from there.

By the way, I recently saw a brand spankin new Shelby GT500 out here in Tysons Corner Virginia for a mere $54K.
I could probably drive it off the show room floor for around 49 to 52K.

Wolfey

another person that thinks twin turbocharging a car will give you more horsepower than a single turbo. sure 600rwhp is possible with a 4.0 v6, with thousands and thousands of dollars in upgrade, but "no problemo" gimme a break.

with the stock CR, it would probably take nearly 28psi to hit 600rwhp.

twins dont give you more power necessarily, but with 600rwhp a single is going to be a slower car than a twin. twin vs single with same peak power, the twins win. ever seen the 1krwhp supras with big singles? they still run 10's cause they lag so ****ing much. twins making 600rwhp= almost no lag with huge power. you are going to need a ton of work to make 600rwhp, but then again...the 5.4l costs 14 grand.....:eek:

i'd much rather get the 5.0l cammer anyway if i was gonna do a swap. 450hp all motor baby.

05mineral6

12-07-2006, 07:24 PM

Considering the actual motor is $19k. I really dont see this as a smart endeavour.

Krazer

12-09-2006, 02:01 PM

Hey guys I know a ASE certified tech at Ford who is top notch and is knowledgeable building Ford cars for the track so I am awaiting his response and opinion to the below e-mail I just sent him.

If any good info results in a favorably way I will post it for guys thinking or considering a V8 swap vs buying a GT etc. One thing I would also like to mention that price of $13,999 for the S/C 5.4 listed is retail one might be able to get a better price than that. ;)

Hi xxxxx

I just wanted to touch bases with you believe it or not that PH turbo is still not ready for mail order, one reason the guy has a busy auto shop and is racer so might not be high on his list of things to do I think. I have to do something in the few couple months.

I need some input I have a new ideal/ with a product on the market for my car, first I want to say of course I have thought about trading in on a GT 4.6 but would cost me 15K plus my car then if I want to S/C another 6-7k on a twin screw . I also know about the Bullit and Boss rumored coming out but am sure you are looking at around 45K with mark up. I also looked at GT 500 money wise just a s a comparison to what my new ideal is below. So looking at that they are going for 55-60k they would want my car and around 45K so taking all of the above in consideration the below looks expensive but really might not be to bad after thinking about it.

( Check out link of this GT 500 running high 9’s with a 75 shot.)
http://www.evoperform.com/GT500/9.wmv
I’d also like to mention this guy has also run 11’s then high 10’s without the aid of nitrous so this 5.4 has nice capabilities in pretty much stock bolt on form.

I just found out you can buy the GT 500 5.4 supercharged complete motor (see attached photo in e-mail) from Ford with warranty for around 12K see quote below.
“Own the most extreme motor Ford Motor Company has ever produced in a Mustang, the 5.4 Supercharged GT500 motor. Motor comes brand new from Ford Motor company with a warranty, completely dressed with all attached components including the monstrous Supercharger rated at 500hp. Motor can be shipped via truck freight usually within two days. Call for more details! Be the first on your block with a GT500 in your project vehicle!”

Ok I know I would need a 8.8 and trans which I would do with a turbo most likely do anyway. But the trans would be down the road not right now.

So what else would I need with this motor and ballpark cost?
I know motor mounts, K frame members, exhaust manifolds/headers, (already have dual exhaust) front springs, radiator? Would I be able to just setup the computer with a tune from one the ( Evoloution etc) tuners? Or would I need more and would this complete motor come with it?

I mean I could put together a decent 5.4 S/C car together (capable of high 10 sec ET’s ) vs buying a GT with investment w/TS around $21K (plus my car) still only be a 4.6 and a lot less than GT 500. This would be like my own SE or SVT and would be a decent fast street car that would hold it’s own pretty good with most OEM cars on the street.

There is also an upgrade path option down the road with this 5.4 motor if needed, there is a new TS coming out from KB a 2.8 for the 5. GT 500 motor makes up to 810 HP already made 725 hp on a stock 5.4 Shelby motor on pump gas.
http://www.m.odularfords.com/forums/kenne-bell-tech/kb-810-hp-745-ft-lbs-shelby-gt500-kit-66795.html.

Look forward to one of your normal detailed responses as I respect you opinion from past conversations and e-mails.

Thanks

Krazer

12-10-2006, 01:05 PM

8cd03gro
i'd much rather get the 5.0l cammer anyway if i was gonna do a swap. 450hp all motor baby.

The Crammer 5.0 engine is rated at 400 BHP which is around 360rwhp and rated at 365 ft/lbs tq . I am curious to your reason why would you prefer the 5.0 Crammer over the 5.4 GT 500 motor?

5.4 GT 500 is rated at 500 BHP motor will produce (w/CAI & Tune) 500rwhp/502rwtq and this is on a Mustang dynamometer not a dynojet, you also wouldn't have the low end rwhp & rwtq down low with the Crammer you would with a roots S/C 5.4

The stock 5..4 has around 100 BHP over the Crammer and with an added option of the KB 2.8 (726 – 810 rwhp) if one wanted at 726 HP would be capable of around 366 -/+ more HP.

The Crammer 5.0 is also not FI friendly running 11.1 CR and on the other hand the 5.4 was built from Ford for FI also using the high flowing heads from the Supercharged Ford GT.

The 5.4 with just the following bolt on items ran in the 10's.
578rwhp
582rwtq

JLT CAI
Tune
or/x
2.6 P
Borla Exhaust
Drag radails
4.10 gears

I just can not see why you would want a Crammer motor over this 5.4.

rygenstormlocke

12-10-2006, 01:33 PM

ORIGINAL: wolfey2k

By the way, I recently saw a brand spankin new Shelby GT500 out here in Tysons Corner Virginia for a mere $54K.
I could probably drive it off the show room floor for around 49 to 52K.

Wolfey

Not to burst your bubble, but I doubt it can be had for 52k. That particular car in Tysons was offered to me for 67K. No thanks.

rygenstormlocke

12-10-2006, 01:33 PM

ORIGINAL: Jerseyfury2

they prolly make the frames lighter on the v6 also...wouldn't wanna crack a frame now would we ?

All S197's share the same frame

Krazer

12-10-2006, 05:10 PM

ORIGINAL: rygenstormlocke

ORIGINAL: Jerseyfury2

they prolly make the frames lighter on the v6 also...wouldn't wanna crack a frame now would we ?

All S197's share the same frame

+1 on the same frame.

Rygenstormlock awesome car you have built ! I can’t say enough and have been looking forward to seeing the specs on your new setup looks like you will be taking the 4.0 to even faster ET!

I was going to go FI on the 4.0 and even thought about a trade in toward a GT (for awhile no more) but since the new arrival of this complete motor which I just found out about and am in the process of researching a swap so if things keep looking good with a swap I will go this route .

Best to you I know you will do well and I will be monitoring your progress in the future even if I go V8.

rygenstormlocke

12-10-2006, 05:13 PM

Thanks, appreciate it.

I did a long time ago talk to a shop that was shoe horning Terminators into the S197 V6. The guy on the phone said total cost was 28K.

Krazer

12-10-2006, 05:20 PM

ORIGINAL: rygenstormlocke

Thanks, appreciate it.

I did a long time ago talk to a shop that was shoe horning Terminators into the S197 V6. The guy on the phone said total cost was 28K.

I am hoping around 20k or under (8.8 $500.00? but will keep stock tran for now motor 12K-14k) will know when I hear back from this Ford tech will post break down from him.

Misc parts since this is a complete motor designed for the S197 which doesn’t look to be long list ballpark maybe $2.5-3k?

Labor book labor if you have a dealer do it 20-25 hours ($2-$2.5K) ball park, I will save here Ford tech I know will do it as a side job so I should save a nice chunk here off the above rate not paying dealer rates. I am also thinking as some complete motors come with engine management. I have a 2 1/2 car garage to do the swap in but according to previous conversations with my Ford tech they are able do side jobs at dealership so that is also a option but perfer to do it in my garage.

The above is just my rough estimate.

I am hoping to do it for around 20k +/- (maybe as low as 17K?) as of now looks to me could be possible still waiting for futher info on costs..

Also will be able to sell my 4.0 motor.

Could you give a break down of the cost that you remember for that 28K?

fazm

12-10-2006, 07:01 PM

ORIGINAL: 8cd03gro

ORIGINAL: fazm

ORIGINAL: wolfey2k

Hey, the 6 bang GT version stang is a schueet ride. Don't get me wrong. I own one. An 07.
I don't need a V8 or the extra expense associated with the GT anyway. The 4.0 is plenty of power for a light car like the stang at any rate and it gets better gas mileage.

Yes, you can dual turbocharge a V6 and get 600 RWHP no problemo. Look it up if you don't believe me.
Sure you'd want to beef up the bottom end, port the heads, change the cam etc., improve the suspension etc.
Horse Power costs money. That's all there is to it.

All I am saying 'and I'll down grade a bit here' is at least get yourself a GT and start from there.

By the way, I recently saw a brand spankin new Shelby GT500 out here in Tysons Corner Virginia for a mere $54K.
I could probably drive it off the show room floor for around 49 to 52K.

Wolfey

another person that thinks twin turbocharging a car will give you more horsepower than a single turbo. sure 600rwhp is possible with a 4.0 v6, with thousands and thousands of dollars in upgrade, but "no problemo" gimme a break.

with the stock CR, it would probably take nearly 28psi to hit 600rwhp.

twins dont give you more power necessarily, but with 600rwhp a single is going to be a slower car than a twin. twin vs single with same peak power, the twins win. ever seen the 1krwhp supras with big singles? they still run 10's cause they lag so ****ing much. twins making 600rwhp= almost no lag with huge power. you are going to need a ton of work to make 600rwhp, but then again...the 5.4l costs 14 grand.....:eek:

i'd much rather get the 5.0l cammer anyway if i was gonna do a swap. 450hp all motor baby.

twins wont always be quicker than a single. For one, look at our car, peak boost at 3k rpm, i launch higher than that, so where would twins benefit me?

i have 3 friends with single turbo supras running 8s and 9s and another with a single turbo conversion dodge stealth running 10.1 (3900 lb car)

yes the twins spool up quicker, but that wasnt what he was implying, he said twins too make 600rwhp, it is A LOT easier to make a single turbo hit 600rwhp than twins, easier to tune, easier to install, less maintanence, etc.

good rule of thumb is twins for a mean "street before track" machine, and a single for a "track before street" machine.

8cd03gro

12-10-2006, 09:11 PM

ORIGINAL: Krazer

8cd03gro
i'd much rather get the 5.0l cammer anyway if i was gonna do a swap. 450hp all motor baby.

The Crammer 5.0 engine is rated at 400 BHP which is around 360rwhp and rated at 365 ft/lbs tq . I am curious to your reason why would you prefer the 5.0 Crammer over the 5.4 GT 500 motor?

5.4 GT 500 is rated at 500 BHP motor will produce (w/CAI & Tune) 500rwhp/502rwtq and this is on a Mustang dynamometer not a dynojet, you also wouldn't have the low end rwhp & rwtq down low with the Crammer you would with a roots S/C 5.4

The stock 5..4 has around 100 BHP over the Crammer and with an added option of the KB 2.8 (726 – 810 rwhp) if one wanted at 726 HP would be capable of around 366 -/+ more HP.

The Crammer 5.0 is also not FI friendly running 11.1 CR and on the other hand the 5.4 was built from Ford for FI also using the high flowing heads from the Supercharged Ford GT.

The 5.4 with just the following bolt on items ran in the 10's.
578rwhp
582rwtq

JLT CAI
Tune
or/x
2.6 P
Borla Exhaust
Drag radails
4.10 gears

I just can not see why you would want a Crammer motor over this 5.4.

i was under the impression the cammer was rated at 420hp... that motor is far lighter than the 5.4 too. dude ot the wait difference, i beleive the 5.0 would run right with the 5.4 if not faster. i think with the 5.0l cammer and a proper tranny/suspension setup you would run 11's easy. Get some work done, maybe some head work and some nice cams and you'd definately be running some real nice times. the 5.4 is REDICULOUSLY heavy. why do you think ford doesn't use it in grand am or any of their race specific cars? horsepower sells cars, but it doesn't necessarily dictate how well the car performs.I just think if you are gonna do a motor swap, why the hell would you swap to a gt500 motor? in 1-2 years you are gonna be able to get a gt500 for somewhere at least close to msrp. even if it is 5k more than sticker price, you are still talking just over 50k. If you set up your 6 with the 5.4 swap, a proper tranny/suspension setup you are talking the 20k price of the 6, plus at least another 20k and there is no way in hell you are going to be able to sell it for nearly as much as a gt500...most people will not spend nearly what a car is worth when it has a motor swap or something of the sort. and if you got in an accident, all of that would be gone. not covered by insurance. I just think, if you are going to do something crazy like this, do something you can not buy anywhere. Do something past crazy. GO INSANE WITH IT. If you have a ton of extra money and it doesnt bother you to flush all that cash down the drain when you sell the car then do what you want i guess. If i was gonna do it, i'd go with the 5.0l cammer, but i personally wouldn't do it at all.

Krazer

12-10-2006, 11:28 PM

8cd03gro
i was under the impression the cammer was rated at 420hp... that motor is far lighter than the 5.4 too. dude ot the wait difference, i beleive the 5.0 would run right with the 5.4 if not faster. i think with the 5.0l cammer and a proper tranny/suspension setup you would run 11's easy. Get some work done, maybe some head work and some nice cams and you'd definately be running some real nice times. the 5.4 is REDICULOUSLY heavy. why do you think ford doesn't use it in grand am or any of their race specific cars? horsepower sells cars, but it doesn't necessarily dictate how well the car performs.I just think if you are gonna do a motor swap, why the hell would you swap to a gt500 motor? in 1-2 years you are gonna be able to get a gt500 for somewhere at least close to msrp. even if it is 5k more than sticker price, you are still talking just over 50k. If you set up your 6 with the 5.4 swap, a proper tranny/suspension setup you are talking the 20k price of the 6, plus at least another 20k and there is no way in hell you are going to be able to sell it for nearly as much as a gt500...most people will not spend nearly what a car is worth when it has a motor swap or something of the sort. and if you got in an accident, all of that would be gone. not covered by insurance. I just think, if you are going to do something crazy like this, do something you can not buy anywhere. Do something past crazy. GO INSANE WITH IT. If you have a ton of extra money and it doesnt bother you to flush all that cash down the drain when you sell the car then do what you want i guess. If i was gonna do it, i'd go with the 5.0l cammer, but i personally wouldn't do it at all.

i was under the impression the cammer was rated at 420hp
You orginal said it was rated at 450Hp, now your down to 420 you need to go a little further down to 400BHP (365rwhp) hopefully in your next post ;).
http://www.fordracingparts.com/crateengine/modularcobra.asp
i beleive the 5.0 would run right with the 5.4 if not faster.
The Crammer at around 360rwhp and 365rwtq vs a S/C 5.4 at 500 rwhp and 500rwtq (regardless of the weight diff) I don't think so. :)

I would have to disagree with your post, the weight factor you mention ( do you know what the weight diff is?) is not a really factor (1/4 ET’s) when looking at the rwhp & rwtq vs the Crammers rwhp & rwtq since this 5.4 motor has already proven itself to run 10’s with just the bolt on items listed above, The 140rwhp and 140rwtq that the 5.4 has over the Crammer more than makes up for the weight difference you speak of.

If you look around on the forums on the avg supercharged 4.6 GT’s pushing around 425-500 rwhp are running high 11’s to mid 12’s. Eample Tump rrr 4.6 S/C GT at TMS forum is pushing around 500 rwhp ET 11.40’s
But according to you the Crammer 365 rwhp will run with a SC 5.4 (per bolt on items in 5.4 10 sec ET run) or even faster meaning you think the Crammer will run high 10’s not going to happen my friend even with gears, CAI/tune and exhaust on the CrammerIMO.

Get some work done, maybe some head work and some nice cams and you'd definately be running some real nice times. the 5.4 is REDICULOUSLY heavy
If your going to do head work and cams on the crammer then lets also do head work and cams in the 5.4 I mean come on 8cd03gro lets be real here. :)

why do you think ford doesn't use it in grand am
Now your talking road course and for road course racing a 5.0 would have better balance also I am not up to date on the rules if they have a 5.0L limit or do they have to run N.A only weight limits etc. But lets not foget this GT 500 S/C motor just came out 07 model year and I am not talking road course I am talking for street/ track 1/4 mile performance.

I just think if you are gonna do a motor swap, why the hell would you swap to a gt500 motor? in 1-2 years you are gonna be able to get a gt500 for somewhere at least close to msrp. even if it is 5k more than sticker price, you are still talking just over 50k
That makes no sense, why would I wait 2 years to pay $50K for a GT 500 per your example let see according to you in your above post wait 2 years trade in my 6 plus (which would be worth around 8-10k at that time) around $40k+ in cash (or 55K without trade in per your example) when I could spend only around $20K now on the swap and be driving and enjoying my car for the next two years.

there is no way in hell you are going to be able to sell it for nearly as much as a gt500...most people will not spend nearly what a car is worth when it has a motor swap or something of the sort.
Another one not making sense I know I could’t sell it as much as a GT 500(I never said that) because it is not a GT 500 Shelby, any car you buy in now in two years will be worth less so if I spend 20K I know in two years I won’t see all of that 20k just like any other car that is two years older. But I will say due to this being a high quality 5.4 motor with a supercharger this car might resale for a little more than you think.

I just think, if you are going to do something crazy like this, do something you can not buy anywhere.
If I were to trade my car (they want my car and around 14K for a GT) in now on a GT and installed a TS S/C would cost me my car and 21K cash today,
Also you can't buy a Pony Package mustang with a S/C 5.4 anywhere that I know of. :)

So in reality I don’t think this swap 5.4 S/C is crazy at all.

You also seem to be hung up on the money (20K) and not looking at the trade in examples posted in the above posts,I think its pretty much in black and white explained above and lets not forget a lot of these members who do some serious build ups have a lot invested and also won't see the return in resale as myself its all relative when in this hobby.

If that is your only reasoning (weight) above to go with the Crammer over the GT 500 5.4 S/C crate motor then it’s a no brainier for me IMO wouldn’t even consider the Crammer over the 5.4 S/C GT 500 motor. Dude the 5.4 also has so much more potentail down the road if one wanted with the Kennie Bell Twin Screw putting around 725rwhp on pump gas and up to 810rwhp on race gas like I said imo no brainier.

Bottom line imo to spend $17- 20k to have a S/C 5.4 Mustang vs trade in on a GT then adding a Twin Screw or trying to buy A GT 500 to me is not a bad way to go. This car would run with most anything out of the factory oem cars (even higher end cars $$$) at a lower cost.

I am not disrespecting the Crammer nice solid built little motor but for what I want the Ford 5.4 S/C is for me. Oh you know what in you mentioned road course racing if I was looking to go road course racing only then in that case I could see looking at the Crammer as an option.

SNAFU

12-10-2006, 11:55 PM

ORIGINAL: fazm

ORIGINAL: 8cd03gro

ORIGINAL: fazm

ORIGINAL: wolfey2k

Hey, the 6 bang GT version stang is a schueet ride. Don't get me wrong. I own one. An 07.
I don't need a V8 or the extra expense associated with the GT anyway. The 4.0 is plenty of power for a light car like the stang at any rate and it gets better gas mileage.

Yes, you can dual turbocharge a V6 and get 600 RWHP no problemo. Look it up if you don't believe me.
Sure you'd want to beef up the bottom end, port the heads, change the cam etc., improve the suspension etc.
Horse Power costs money. That's all there is to it.

All I am saying 'and I'll down grade a bit here' is at least get yourself a GT and start from there.

By the way, I recently saw a brand spankin new Shelby GT500 out here in Tysons Corner Virginia for a mere $54K.
I could probably drive it off the show room floor for around 49 to 52K.

Wolfey

another person that thinks twin turbocharging a car will give you more horsepower than a single turbo. sure 600rwhp is possible with a 4.0 v6, with thousands and thousands of dollars in upgrade, but "no problemo" gimme a break.

with the stock CR, it would probably take nearly 28psi to hit 600rwhp.

twins dont give you more power necessarily, but with 600rwhp a single is going to be a slower car than a twin. twin vs single with same peak power, the twins win. ever seen the 1krwhp supras with big singles? they still run 10's cause they lag so ****ing much. twins making 600rwhp= almost no lag with huge power. you are going to need a ton of work to make 600rwhp, but then again...the 5.4l costs 14 grand.....:eek:

i'd much rather get the 5.0l cammer anyway if i was gonna do a swap. 450hp all motor baby.

twins wont always be quicker than a single. For one, look at our car, peak boost at 3k rpm, i launch higher than that, so where would twins benefit me?

i have 3 friends with single turbo supras running 8s and 9s and another with a single turbo conversion dodge stealth running 10.1 (3900 lb car)

yes the twins spool up quicker, but that wasnt what he was implying, he said twins too make 600rwhp, it is A LOT easier to make a single turbo hit 600rwhp than twins, easier to tune, easier to install, less maintanence, etc.

good rule of thumb is twins for a mean "street before track" machine, and a single for a "track before street" machine.

Launching at over 3K? That's impressive! I'd seriously love to hear how you're getting that to hook up...

fazm

12-11-2006, 12:19 AM

ORIGINAL: BillsXchargerfund

Launching at over 3K? That's impressive! I'd seriously love to hear how you're getting that to hook up...

you dont know too much bout me lol.

i cut a 1.93 60' with my v6 n/a.

i have mickey thompson 275/40/17 et street radials, frpp 3.73 gears, detroit TT differential,CHE LCA's, and CHE UCA

fazm

12-11-2006, 12:21 AM

even then, im havin to slip the clutch a bit becacuse the tires are so sticky, that if i launch at 5k, and just drop the clutchc, it tries to lift the front end up, and then slams it back down, and bogs the motor back down to 2200rpm

Krazer

12-11-2006, 12:47 PM

I just recieved an e-mail reply from the Ford tech guy I know he had to make it quick but will be getting back to me with a more detailed response. He also suggested another option for me in his e-mail response below which would be cheaper hmmm cheaper:)

Hey - I'll give a more "detailed" answer soon but right now I'm a
little strapped for time, so I'll be quick..

First - I'm well aware of the GT500 engine's potential, especially
under more effecient methods of boost delivery. I am actually in the
process of talkin to Kenne Bell because we have a GT500 customer who wants
more power and we've pretty much got him set on the idea of going
twin-screw with his car. (He wants to beat his brothers Ford GT)

First off - have you ever been in a 500-600hp car? Been in a LEGIT
11-second ride?? I'm not talking about the old big-block muscle cars...
yes, they were fast but not nearly as fast as people make them out to be.
On average, the old "musclecars" were mid 13-second rides and only a
HANDFUL were capable of cracking 12's (HIGH 12's at that) in stock form.
So many people don't quite understand just how fast a car that can go
11's @ 117-118mph REALLY is until they get in one and it scares the
living **** out of them.

Before you decide you want to throw together a 750hp 10-second monster,
try and find a few people who have LEGITIMATE mid 11-second rides and
go for a ride with them, or see if they'll even let you drive it! That
will be very helpful when it comes to deciding which direction you take
with the project.

If you're thinking about doing a V8-swap, I think you'd be better off
getting an '03/04 Cobra engine and starting there. They can be had for
much cheaper than a new GT500 engine and are still capable of handling
750-800hp on a daily basis. Plus, they have a factory blower and are
INCREDIBLY easy to modify.

A while ago I was deciding between a turbo, centri S/C and the X charger and had sent him a e-mail with the X charger video I thought his response and the infomation in it was excellant. So I thought I would post it here for new guys that happen to read this thread who might benefit from this excellant info.

Not bad!! Sounds nice too - the M90 is the blower that GM has been
using on the Pontiac GTP/SSEI series cars for some time now - it's a pretty
stout unit with very few problems.

The nice thing about roots-style blowers is that they produce *INSTANT*
torque and power, the second that you hit the gas, you're at full
boost. Faster than a turbo, and much faster than a centrifugal supercharger.

The only real downside is that roots-blowers are also the least
effecient compressors available. They create more heat per lb of boost than
anything else on the market, and produce considerably less total power
than a twin-screw, centrifugal, or turbo at the same pressure. A
Twin-screw blower looks a lot like a roots blower, but internally it's a bit
different and is much more effecient than a roots. People running the new
'03/'04 Cobras can switch to a Kenne Bell or Whipple twin-screw and
pick up 80-100 more horsepower and torque AT THE WHEELS at the same boost
levels that they used to run with the roots blower. And the power comes
on almost just as quick, much faster than a centrifugal blower or even
a turbo.

Centrifugal blowers, like the P1-SC you're interested in, are more
effecient than roots - meaning that you'll make much
more power with a Procharger at 8 psi than you will with the M90 at 8
psi. A centrifugal supercharger is essentially a belt-driven
turbocharger compressor. But, engine RPM and blower pulley rpm is what determines
the amount of boost created, so they usually don't come on strong until
just after 4,000 rpm.

Turbos are the be-all, end-all of forced induction when you want to get
the most power out of your boost. Modern kits can be taylored to your
exact setup so that full boost is achieved at, or even under 3,000 rpm -
meaning that you can make the most possible power with virtually zero
lag-time and still maintain excellent street manners. Plus, there's
nothing in the world that sounds as cool as a turbo spooling up.

For reference - lets look at the '03/04 Cobras. It's basically an 8.5:1
compression 4.6 liter engine. 281 cubes - pretty small, when you think
about it. The stock, eaton M112 supercharger will only make effecient
boost up to about 15 psi, and if you have the blower ported, you can
expect to make about 510 rwhp/tq with 15-16 psi and the ported eaton. Lets
say you step up to a Twin-screw - The twin screw makes effecient boost
up to about 23-24 psi. Lets just say you were running 18-19 psi - now
you make about 610 rwhp with only 3 more psi. Now - you step it up one
more notch with a 76mm turbo on that same 281 Cobra engine. 20 psi from
a good turbo will make over 700 rwhp/rwtq with a SAFE, fat tune. That's
incredible when you think about it, and they still spool up quick!

Bottom line, there is no better way to get the most power out of your
combination than with a properly sized turbo setup.

Either way, keep me posted!

8cd03gro

12-11-2006, 07:58 PM

petepete

12-11-2006, 08:59 PM

woah tiger o_O

Krazer

12-12-2006, 12:17 AM

the 5.4 doesn't make 500rwhp stock... not even close. mid 400rwhp at best. The blown 5.4 is alot heavier than you think. It is flat out an elephant. why do you think the gt500 is so far behind most of the 500 hp cars on the road acceleration wise? its an awesome car, and the price is right, and imo it doesn't matter how you get the speed as long as you get it, but the thing is A COW. Yea it is an awesome motor, and it does make power more easily than the 5.0, but how far do you plan on going? If you are planning on going that much further than what the stock 5.4 makes, why not get a motor built to your specs from a cheaper v8? All i am saying is, for the cost of the 5.4, and all that you would need to keep it reliable, there are better options. The 5.0 was just a rough example. even your tech buddy suggested a different route because your idea is in no way cost effective. It isn't a "hobby" thing to go the more expensive route just because, it is a stupid thing. Why go a route that is far more expensive in the long run than going a way, putting out close to the same performance for less overall cash, and even more of a crazy uniqueness. If you went with a 5.4, did all the suspension work to handle the huge weight addition, swapped a tranny and did all the supporting mods, you are basically going to be driving a gt500 and you are gonna have saved, what? 5 grand? when you sell that car you are going to lose close to if not ALL of the money you put into it. Why not buy a gt500 and put the damn v6 bumpers on the thing if you want that? what i am saying is, why build something that you could buy already built for close to the same price, when you are going to keep more of your money in the long run if you buy the gt500? Like i said before, if you have a ****load of extra money and you dont know what to do with it, go ahead by all means do this if you want, but there are more cost effective ways to get that kind of power along with the v8 sound and all the other **** you get with the 5.4. if you seriously are considering making that huge of a jump in cost, why are you even asking us? you can obviously afford to throw around money like its nobody's businnes, just do what you want to do, it's your car man. I am just saying i would never do a 5.4 swap for that kinda money.

the 5.4 doesn't make 500rwhp stock... not even close. mid 400rwhp at best
Just A CAI & Tune it the GT 500 makes 500rwhp & 502rwtq.

The blown 5.4 is alot heavier than you think. It is flat out an elephant. why do you think the gt500 is so far behind most of the 500 hp cars on the road acceleration wise? its an awesome car, and the price is right, and imo it doesn't matter how you get the speed as long as you get it, but the thing is A COW.
Car went 11.81’s with just a tune CAI & Tune , high 10’s with CAI, Tune, 2.6, exhuast, or/x DR’s and 4.10 gears . LMAO You crack me up 8cd03gro.:)

The 5.0 was just a rough example. even your tech buddy suggested a different route because your idea is in no way cost effective.
He suggested a 03 Cobra motor because would be cheaper I am waiting pricing from him now, I looked myself at 03 Cobra motors your looking at 7K and that’s used/RB with stock Eaton S/C yea Cheaper but add a Kennie Bell and you at $12K close to the cost of a GT 500 motor. The 03 Cobra with Eaton your limited to 500rwhp stock int, with a Kennie bell/ 600 rwhp and close to the amount $$$ of a brand new ( I like brand new :)) GT 500 motor the 5.4 has the upgrade option (path) down the road of going with a Kennie Bell and running 726rwhp-810rwhp.

If you went with a 5.4, did all the suspension work to handle the huge weight addition, swapped a tranny and did all the supporting mods, you are basically going to be driving a gt500 and you are gonna have saved, what? 5 grand?

Right now ballpark without trans ( will run stock trans till it go's out,could get a track trans rated at 800hp 2k- $2.5K or beef up mine for $800.00) this will cost around $20k +/- icluding 8.8 and suspension, take the value of my car now at $16K I am at around $36K. GT 500 goes for around 60K- 70K using 60K plus minus my 36K investment I am saving around $25K minus my 36K from a 70K cost of a GT 500 I am saving $35K.
So your statement I would only save $5k is incorrect..

when you sell that car you are going to lose close to if not ALL of the money you put into it.
Everyone loses money when they build a car esp if they blow a motor and rebuild it, I really plan on keeping this car for a long time 5-10 years if I do this swap so at 36K (at todays value my is woth 16K +20K swap=36K) I am not worried about resale value. :) Whats a new Mustang GT that you buy today going to be worth in ten years get my drift.

you get with the 5.4. if you seriously are considering making that huge of a jump in cost, why are you even asking us?
LOL hey dude that is what forums are for sharing info and getting info anyone thinking about doing in a swap maybe info I provide could help.

I am just saying i would never do a 5.4 swap for that kinda money.
That’s your opinion not mine :)

you can obviously afford to throw around money like its nobody's businnes,
There are plenty of guys who throw money in their cars Supechargers, turbo, heads, cams some even build up the bottom end of their motors, rear ends, ext mods, tires wheels, I am sure your looking at around $10, $15 $20K for some of these guys also. They are guys at some of our hang outs and guys I know 20K is nothing to drop in a street car.

8cd03gro

12-12-2006, 01:21 AM

ORIGINAL: Krazer

the 5.4 doesn't make 500rwhp stock... not even close. mid 400rwhp at best. The blown 5.4 is alot heavier than you think. It is flat out an elephant. why do you think the gt500 is so far behind most of the 500 hp cars on the road acceleration wise? its an awesome car, and the price is right, and imo it doesn't matter how you get the speed as long as you get it, but the thing is A COW. Yea it is an awesome motor, and it does make power more easily than the 5.0, but how far do you plan on going? If you are planning on going that much further than what the stock 5.4 makes, why not get a motor built to your specs from a cheaper v8? All i am saying is, for the cost of the 5.4, and all that you would need to keep it reliable, there are better options. The 5.0 was just a rough example. even your tech buddy suggested a different route because your idea is in no way cost effective. It isn't a "hobby" thing to go the more expensive route just because, it is a stupid thing. Why go a route that is far more expensive in the long run than going a way, putting out close to the same performance for less overall cash, and even more of a crazy uniqueness. If you went with a 5.4, did all the suspension work to handle the huge weight addition, swapped a tranny and did all the supporting mods, you are basically going to be driving a gt500 and you are gonna have saved, what? 5 grand? when you sell that car you are going to lose close to if not ALL of the money you put into it. Why not buy a gt500 and put the damn v6 bumpers on the thing if you want that? what i am saying is, why build something that you could buy already built for close to the same price, when you are going to keep more of your money in the long run if you buy the gt500? Like i said before, if you have a ****load of extra money and you dont know what to do with it, go ahead by all means do this if you want, but there are more cost effective ways to get that kind of power along with the v8 sound and all the other **** you get with the 5.4. if you seriously are considering making that huge of a jump in cost, why are you even asking us? you can obviously afford to throw around money like its nobody's businnes, just do what you want to do, it's your car man. I am just saying i would never do a 5.4 swap for that kinda money.

the 5.4 doesn't make 500rwhp stock... not even close. mid 400rwhp at best
Just A CAI & Tune it the GT 500 makes 500rwhp & 502rwtq.

The blown 5.4 is alot heavier than you think. It is flat out an elephant. why do you think the gt500 is so far behind most of the 500 hp cars on the road acceleration wise? its an awesome car, and the price is right, and imo it doesn't matter how you get the speed as long as you get it, but the thing is A COW.
Car went 11.81’s with just a tune CAI & Tune , high 10’s with CAI, Tune, 2.6, exhuast, or/x DR’s and 4.10 gears . LMAO You crack me up 8cd03gro.:)

The 5.0 was just a rough example. even your tech buddy suggested a different route because your idea is in no way cost effective.
He suggested a 03 Cobra motor because would be cheaper I am waiting pricing from him now, I looked myself at 03 Cobra motors your looking at 7K and that’s used/RB with stock Eaton S/C yea Cheaper but add a Kennie Bell and you at $12K close to the cost of a GT 500 motor. The 03 Cobra with Eaton your limited to 500rwhp stock int, with a Kennie bell/ 600 rwhp and close to the amount $$$ of a brand new ( I like brand new :)) and GT 500 motor has the upgrade option (path) down the road of going with a Kennie Bell and running 726rwhp-810rwhp.

If you went with a 5.4, did all the suspension work to handle the huge weight addition, swapped a tranny and did all the supporting mods, you are basically going to be driving a gt500 and you are gonna have saved, what? 5 grand?

Right now ballpark without trans ( could get a track trans rated at 800hp $2.5K) this will cost around $20k +/- icluding 8.8 and suspension, take the value of my car now at $16K I am at around $36K. GT 500 goes for around 60K- 70K using 60K plus minus my 36K investment I am saving around $25K minus my 36K from a 70K cost of a GT 500 I am saving $35K.
So your statement I would only save $5k is incorrect..

when you sell that car you are going to lose close to if not ALL of the money you put into it.
Everyone loses money when they build a car esp if they blow a motor and rebuild it, I really plan on keeping this car for a long time 5-10 years if I do this swap so at 36K (at todays value my is woth 16K +20K swap=36K) I am not worried about resale value. :) Whats a new Mustang GT that you buy today going to be worth in ten years get my drift.

you get with the 5.4. if you seriously are considering making that huge of a jump in cost, why are you even asking us?
LOL hey dude that is what forums are for sharing info and getting info anyone thinking about doing in a swap maybe info I provide could help.

I am just saying i would never do a 5.4 swap for that kinda money.
That’s your opinion not mine :)

you can obviously afford to throw around money like its nobody's businnes,
There are plenty of guys who throw money in their cars Supechargers, turbo, heads, cams some even build up the bottom end of their motors, rear ends, ext mods, tires wheels, I am sure your looking at around $10, $15 $20K for some of these guys also. They are guys at some of our hang outs and guys I know 20K is nothing to drop in a street car.

bro you really need to stop pulling **** out of your ass and trying to turn this into a war. i made an honest mistake thinking the 5.0 cammer made 450 stock, then you pull random **** out and when i question it you just make excuses. you said the 5.4 made 500rwhp. it doesn't, dont talk modded ****. the times you are talking about are on slicks and the "you crack me up part" that was with all the mods you listed and a ported blower. So add another 3-4 grand to that motor for those mods. They put down high 500's at the wheels to make a ten sec run on slicks. Impressive for the price, but not at all for how much power they are putting down because the thing is so god damn heavy. i seriously don't think you realize how much weight is involved here and how much work you will need to compensate for the extra 300+ lbs this motor will bring to the front end. It's not likely that you will be doing the install yourself (not saying you won't cause im not sure, its just unlikely) which will be another couple grand. a gt500 is really supposed to sell for just about 40k, thats why i said wait maybe 6 months to a year and you will be able to get one for that price. If you are doing an engine swap and all the thigns you have pruposed to do it is going to take time anyway, and like i said you are going to lose a ton of money into it (which doesn't seem to bother you at all which is cool cause its ur car, but it is still a valid argument). A gt500 being 5 years old will still probably sell for say 30k if the milage is decent. You will have a VERY hard time selling a 6er with a 5.4 in it built by you and not a proffessional shop for over 20k in 5 years. There are cheaper ways to do this. If this is what you want, and i can see where you would, then go for it, its cool, but i am just saying there are more cost effective ways, and this is not the way i would do it. this started as a friendly discussion about this swap, and then you started throwing in little smart ass remarks and trying to turn this into a battle. I stated my opinion, you stated yours, everything was friendly, but in your last few posts you have just gotten to be more of a deusch bag towards me, im done discussing this with you.

blackout

12-12-2006, 01:26 AM

I didn't know there were emo Mustang owners...

[sm=lame.gif]

Krazer

12-12-2006, 10:47 AM

8cdo3gro
bro you really need to stop pulling **** out of your ass and trying to turn this into a war. i made an honest mistake thinking the 5.0 cammer made 450 stock, then you pull random **** out and when i question it you just make excuses. you said the 5.4 made 500rwhp. it doesn't, dont talk modded ****. the times you are talking about are on slicks and the "you crack me up part" that was with all the mods you listed and a ported blower. So add another 3-4 grand to that motor for those mods. They put down high 500's at the wheels to make a ten sec run on slicks. Impressive for the price, but not at all for how much power they are putting down because the thing is so god damn heavy. i seriously don't think you realize how much weight is involved here and how much work you will need to compensate for the extra 300+ lbs this motor will bring to the front end. It's not likely that you will be doing the install yourself (not saying you won't cause im not sure, its just unlikely) which will be another couple grand. a gt500 is really supposed to sell for just about 40k, thats why i said wait maybe 6 months to a year and you will be able to get one for that price. If you are doing an engine swap and all the thigns you have pruposed to do it is going to take time anyway, and like i said you are going to lose a ton of money into it (which doesn't seem to bother you at all which is cool cause its ur car, but it is still a valid argument). A gt500 being 5 years old will still probably sell for say 30k if the milage is decent. You will have a VERY hard time selling a 6er with a 5.4 in it built by you and not a proffessional shop for over 20k in 5 years. There are cheaper ways to do this. If this is what you want, and i can see where you would, then go for it, its cool, but i am just saying there are more cost effective ways, and this is not the way i would do it. this started as a friendly discussion about this swap, and then you started throwing in little smart ass remarks and trying to turn this into a battle. I stated my opinion, you stated yours, everything was friendly, but in your last few posts you have just gotten to be more of a deusch bag towards me, im done discussing this with you.

Lighten up dude sounds like your breaking into a sweat I am just debating (no war) you and pointing out where I don’t agree with your statements imo. I am just responding to you in the same manner I feel you respond to me. Ok I will just make this one short (avoiding a war/peace :) ) and correct one of your misstatements and a last comment/opinion to you on weight.

.you crack me up part" that was with all the mods you listed and a ported blower. So add another 3-4 grand to that motor for those mods.

I never said they ported the blower on this GT 500, also for the crack me up statement I think you took it the wrong way I can’t it help some things you say I find amusing and funny makes for fun debate with you imo :)

Last comment and opinion
Ocd03gro you keep complaining about the weight yes it is heavier but hey dude high 10’s with a CAI, tune, headers, or/x plus axle back, 2.6 pulley, drag radials 4.10’s is fine with me knowing this car has that capability. I look forward to seeing what this car with run with a Kennie Bell 2.8 since it can run high tens with the Eaton. :)

Look at the Hemi vs a small block Dodge V-8, a Viper motor vs a small bock V-8, a BB Chevy vs a small block V-8 guess what? All day long they are much heavier than their counter part small block motors, this happens all the time they are bigger heavier but make more power get over it. :)

8cd03gro

12-12-2006, 01:02 PM

ORIGINAL: Krazer

8cdo3gro
bro you really need to stop pulling **** out of your ass and trying to turn this into a war. i made an honest mistake thinking the 5.0 cammer made 450 stock, then you pull random **** out and when i question it you just make excuses. you said the 5.4 made 500rwhp. it doesn't, dont talk modded ****. the times you are talking about are on slicks and the "you crack me up part" that was with all the mods you listed and a ported blower. So add another 3-4 grand to that motor for those mods. They put down high 500's at the wheels to make a ten sec run on slicks. Impressive for the price, but not at all for how much power they are putting down because the thing is so god damn heavy. i seriously don't think you realize how much weight is involved here and how much work you will need to compensate for the extra 300+ lbs this motor will bring to the front end. It's not likely that you will be doing the install yourself (not saying you won't cause im not sure, its just unlikely) which will be another couple grand. a gt500 is really supposed to sell for just about 40k, thats why i said wait maybe 6 months to a year and you will be able to get one for that price. If you are doing an engine swap and all the thigns you have pruposed to do it is going to take time anyway, and like i said you are going to lose a ton of money into it (which doesn't seem to bother you at all which is cool cause its ur car, but it is still a valid argument). A gt500 being 5 years old will still probably sell for say 30k if the milage is decent. You will have a VERY hard time selling a 6er with a 5.4 in it built by you and not a proffessional shop for over 20k in 5 years. There are cheaper ways to do this. If this is what you want, and i can see where you would, then go for it, its cool, but i am just saying there are more cost effective ways, and this is not the way i would do it. this started as a friendly discussion about this swap, and then you started throwing in little smart ass remarks and trying to turn this into a battle. I stated my opinion, you stated yours, everything was friendly, but in your last few posts you have just gotten to be more of a deusch bag towards me, im done discussing this with you.

Lighten up dude sounds like your breaking into a sweat I am just debating (no war) you and pointing out where I don’t agree with your statements imo. I am just responding to you in the same manner I feel you respond to me. Ok I will just make this one short (avoiding a war/peace :) ) and correct one of your misstatements and a last comment/opinion to you on weight.

.you crack me up part" that was with all the mods you listed and a ported blower. So add another 3-4 grand to that motor for those mods.

I never said they ported the blower on this GT 500, also for the crack me up statement I think you took it the wrong way I can’t it help some things you say I find amusing and funny makes for fun debate with you imo :)

Last comment and opinion
Ocd03gro you keep complaining about the weight yes it is heavier but hey dude high 10’s with a CAI, tune, headers, or/x plus axle back, 2.6 pulley, drag radials 4.10’s is fine with me knowing this car has that capability. I look forward to seeing what this car with run with a Kennie Bell 2.8 since it can run high tens with the Eaton. :)

Look at the Hemi vs a small block Dodge V-8, a Viper motor vs a small bock V-8, a BB Chevy vs a small block V-8 guess what? All day long they are much heavier than their counter part small block motors, this happens all the time they are bigger heavier but make more power get over it. :)

it just seems like you are making all of these smart alec remarks about **** that you are also getting wrong. YOU didn't say it had a ported blower making those runs, EVO did. On the dyno run, it didn't say it, but at the beginning and in their mod list it says they have a ported blower.

Look at the Hemi vs a small block Dodge V-8, a Viper motor vs a small bock V-8, a BB Chevy vs a small block V-8 guess what? All day long they are much heavier than their counter part small block motors, this happens all the time they are bigger heavier but make more power get over it. :)

the viper is slower than the z06, partly because of its weight difference. Weight matters big time, and although i even agreed with you that the 5.4 will make for a faster car than one with the 5.0l cammer, i don't beleive it will be much, and then you proceeded to say how much the 5.4 makes modded, comparing it to a stock 5.0 which i think is kind of an unfair comparison as you aren't modding the 5.0. General rule of thumb is every 100 pounds is around a tenth lost in the quarter. the 5.4 weighs i think 300 pounds more than the 5.0 from what i've read, but then again i also read that the 5.0 made 450hp, so im not positive, but if it is true, that is a big difference. weight tranfer will be affected, and it will already slow it down a bit, so again i beleive a 5.0 equipped 6er could keep up with the 5.4 and its more cost effective. That's just what i would do, and as i have said, you may want something different and it may be better for you, i have just been making the argument.

Krazer

12-12-2006, 05:29 PM

ocd03gro
the viper is slower than the z06, partly because of its weight difference. Weight matters big time, and although i even agreed with you that the 5.4 will make for a faster car than one with the 5.0l cammer, i don't beleive it will be much, and then you proceeded to say how much the 5.4 makes modded, comparing it to a stock 5.0 which i think is kind of an unfair comparison as you aren't modding the 5.0. General rule of thumb is every 100 pounds is around a tenth lost in the quarter. the 5.4 weighs i think 300 pounds more than the 5.0 from what i've read, but then again i also read that the 5.0 made 450hp, so im not positive, but if it is true, that is a big difference. weight tranfer will be affected, and it will already slow it down a bit, so again i beleive a 5.0 equipped 6er could keep up with the 5.4 and its more cost effective. That's just what i would do, and as i have said, you may want something different and it may be better for you, i have just been making the argument.
ocd03gro
YOU didn't say it had a ported blower making those runs, EVO did. On the dyno run, it didn't say it, but at the beginning and in their mod list it says they have a ported blower.
Ocd03gro my good friend :) on the 9 sec run video I posted it does not say ported blower in their mod (I am not seeing it) list it says stock trans, stock blower, stock motor could you look at the video and tell me where it says ported blower I am not seeing it, does anyone else see it? :)
http://www.evoperform.com/GT500/9.wmv
then you proceeded to say how much the 5.4 makes modded, comparing it to a stock 5.0 which i think is kind of an unfair comparison as you aren't modding the 5.0.
There you go again a incorrect statement I clearly stated in post #21 even if the Crammer had exhaust, CAI, tune gears that is not going to out run the 5.4 running 10’s. So I did compare the Crammer modded compared to the 5.4.
Come Ocd03gro make sure before you post incorrect statement.
although i even agreed with you that the 5.4 will make for a faster car than one with the 5.0l cammer
Could you point out where you say you agreed with me the 5.4 would make a faster car I don’’t see it I do see where you said in post # 20 the following quote that in italics "i beleive the 5.0 would run right with the 5.4 if not faster" but not where you ageed the 5.4 would be faster.
the viper is slower than the z06, partly because of its weight difference. Weight matters big time

Viper--------------- weight 3,437 lbs---510hp/535 lb-ft---------1/4 mile ET 12.10 manual trans MT
GT 500 Mustang ---weight 3,879 lbs---500hp/480 lb-ft---------1/4 mile ET 12.20 manual trans MM&FF

The GT 500 weighs 442 lbs heavier than the Viper and the GT 500 also has less HP and torque than the Viper and your looking at only 1/10 of a difference in ET’s where is this big important weight factor I keep reading you speak of? ocd03gro please get over the weight :)

8cd03gro

12-12-2006, 05:51 PM

ORIGINAL: Krazer

ocd03gro
the viper is slower than the z06, partly because of its weight difference. Weight matters big time, and although i even agreed with you that the 5.4 will make for a faster car than one with the 5.0l cammer, i don't beleive it will be much, and then you proceeded to say how much the 5.4 makes modded, comparing it to a stock 5.0 which i think is kind of an unfair comparison as you aren't modding the 5.0. General rule of thumb is every 100 pounds is around a tenth lost in the quarter. the 5.4 weighs i think 300 pounds more than the 5.0 from what i've read, but then again i also read that the 5.0 made 450hp, so im not positive, but if it is true, that is a big difference. weight tranfer will be affected, and it will already slow it down a bit, so again i beleive a 5.0 equipped 6er could keep up with the 5.4 and its more cost effective. That's just what i would do, and as i have said, you may want something different and it may be better for you, i have just been making the argument.
ocd03gro
YOU didn't say it had a ported blower making those runs, EVO did. On the dyno run, it didn't say it, but at the beginning and in their mod list it says they have a ported blower.
Ocd03gro my good friend :) on the 9 sec run video I posted it does not say ported blower in their mod (I am not seeing it) list it says stock trans, stock blower, stock motor could you look at the video and tell me where it says ported blower I am not seeing it, does anyone else see it? :)
http://www.evoperform.com/GT500/9.wmv
then you proceeded to say how much the 5.4 makes modded, comparing it to a stock 5.0 which i think is kind of an unfair comparison as you aren't modding the 5.0.
There you go again a incorrect statement I clearly stated in post #21 even if the Crammer had exhaust, CAI, tune gears that is not going to out run the 5.4 running 10’s. So I did compare the Crammer modded compared to the 5.4.
Come Ocd03gro make sure before you post incorrect statement.
although i even agreed with you that the 5.4 will make for a faster car than one with the 5.0l cammer
Could you point out where you say you agreed with me the 5.4 would make a faster car I don’’t see it I do see where you said in post # 20 the following quote that in italics "i beleive the 5.0 would run right with the 5.4 if not faster" but not where you ageed the 5.4 would be faster.
the viper is slower than the z06, partly because of its weight difference. Weight matters big time

Viper weight---- 3,437 lbs---510hp/535 lb-ft---------1/4 mile ET 12.10 manual trans MT
GT 500 Mustang 3,879 lbs---500hp/480 lb-ft---------1/4 mile ET 12.20 manual trans MM&FF

The GT 500 weighs 442 lbs more that the Viper has less HP and torque than the Viper and your looking at only 1/10 of a difference in ET’s where is this big important weight factor I keep reading you speak of? ocd03gro please get over the weight :)

first of all, again you are posting unfair comparisons. Post times from the same testers and average times, they are more reliable MT ran a 12.8 with the gt500 and most drivers will run high 12's stock. The srt-10 can run 11's with a good driver on stock rubber, it is a faster car without a doubt. Where are you getting your info for how much power the cammer would put down modded? The boss was originally supposed to have the cammer with reworked intake and exhaust putting down 450....with the lesser weight that would easily run with a gt500.... oh and that 9.9 run was with all the mods from before including the ported blower and a 75 shot. it says ported blower in their other videos that were before this run, if you watch the other videos. Oh and if you wanna compare some weight stuff, lets look at it this way. You just posted the best time you could probably find for the gt500 stock including stock tires correct? (not sure, but you probably wont get much faster). Well let's take a look at the z06 shall we? z06 weighs 3130 lbs, makes 505hp at the crank. Ranger from the corvette forums ran an 11.2 bone stock down to the tires. with dr's he ran high 10's. There are videos and more than 3 witnesses to attest to this, 2 of them not even owning chevys. I guess you are right, weight has barely any effect at all :eek:

horsepower dictates sales, power to weight dicteates performance. <<<if you disagree with this statement, you have no business arguing.

EDIT:
here ya go buddy, even more to my point. watch this video and you will notice they have a ported blower, and some nice drag suspension to go along with those other mods you listed, which i didn't even notice before, so you can add another couple thousand to what you thought before. So altogether you are looking at all those bolt ons, a ported blower, drag suspension, a 75 shot, slicks, and dyno tuning to break into the nines. impressive still, but again, not the way you are expressing it. All those mods are a good 5k at LEAST, just so you know.

http://www.evoperform.com/GT500/dyno2.wmv

Krazer

12-12-2006, 06:11 PM

first of all, again you are posting unfair comparisons. Post times from the same testers and average times, they are more reliable MT ran a 12.8 with the gt500 and most drivers will run high 12's stock. The srt-10 can run 11's with a good driver on stock rubber, it is a faster car without a doubt. Where are you getting your info for how much power the cammer would put down modded? The boss was originally supposed to have the cammer with reworked intake and exhaust putting down 450....with the lesser weight that would easily run with a gt500.... oh and that 9.9 run was with all the mods from before including the ported blower and a 75 shot. it says ported blower in their other videos that were before this run, if you watch the other videos. Oh and if you wanna compare some weight stuff, lets look at it this way. You just posted the best time you could probably find for the gt500 stock including stock tires correct? (not sure, but you probably wont get much faster). Well let's take a look at the z06 shall we? z06 weighs 3130 lbs, makes 505hp at the crank. Ranger from the corvette forums ran an 11.2 bone stock down to the tires. with dr's he ran high 10's. There are videos and more than 3 witnesses to attest to this, 2 of them not even owning chevys. I guess you are right, weight has barely any effect at all

Where are you getting your info for how much power the cammer would put down modded?
I posted in post 21 respondin to you but here is the link again from Ford Racing with specs.
http://www.fordracingparts.com/crateengine/modularcobra.asp

Yes the motor is heavier than the 5.0 its not a perfect world (just like my examples of other motors I posted) but knowing and having the capibilty of running 10’s is fine with those mods on the 5.4 if one wanted.

I think we should just end the debate between you and I its getting old people can make thier own choice me I will go with the 5.4 you can go with your choice same with other people its thier choice.

Just for the record I don't need to run 10's right now 11's would be fine but I know this motor has the capibilty if one wanted to and with the option of the KB 10's are there if not possible high 9's not bad for a heavier motor. The car went 11.81's with just a tune and CAI, I would go 4.10's, headers exhaust, pulley, tune CAI DR's period would cost around $2600.00 (same thing I would also do to a S/C GT) and the car would run low 11's easy . The porting of the Eaton most likey would not do because 2 or 3 years down road might decide to go KB or maybe not as I might be happy with an low 11 second car.

I guess we with will have to agree to disagree.

GJP05

12-12-2006, 06:17 PM

Before you choose the 5.4 you should realize it will cost you a lot more then $20K to do the swap. Just about every component of your car will have to be changed. The only thing you will be able to keep will be the body. As far as the weight well that GT500 5.4 weighs more then the GT 5.4. You are talking about iron compared to aluminum plus the size difference and the weight of the S/C. When you add all that up it will be well over 250#'s and it will all be added to the nose. This will shift the weight ratio of your car from 60/40 to close to 75/25.

Krazer

12-12-2006, 06:36 PM

I knowORIGINAL: GJP05

Before you choose the 5.4 you should realize it will cost you a lot more then $20K to do the swap. Just about every component of your car will have to be changed. The only thing you will be able to keep will be the body. As far as the weight well that GT500 5.4 weighs more then the GT 5.4. You are talking about iron compared to aluminum plus the size difference and the weight of the S/C. When you add all that up it will be well over 250#'s and it will all be added to the nose. This will shift the weight ratio of your car from 60/40 to close to 75/25.

I am waiting for a friend of mine who is a certifed Ford tech to get back to me on this with parts and cost I am just rough estimating (without trans) at cost of 20k plus or minus, when the tech gets back to me I will post everything remember (if its way out there then sure no go) I will get a discount through him on parts and this will also be a side job so I am not paying dealership rates.

I will be upgrading to a 8.8 complete for around $500.00, I will keep the stock trans for now T-5 still it goes out then either beef it for around $800.00, or go to a track trans rated at 800rwhp for around $2-2.5K along with DS, I have a Pony Package similar GT suspension but know I will need the K Frams, springs, radiator, thinking engine management comes with the complete motor package so not sure on this, I already have dual exhaust, but of course would need CAI, need headers, or/x pipe. I know I will need other parts but other than the parts I listed I am not sure what everything else is needed part wise but no big ticket items ($$$) stick out at me that I could think of :). So when he gets back to me I will post everything

8cd03gro

12-12-2006, 07:09 PM

ORIGINAL: Krazer

I knowORIGINAL: GJP05

Before you choose the 5.4 you should realize it will cost you a lot more then $20K to do the swap. Just about every component of your car will have to be changed. The only thing you will be able to keep will be the body. As far as the weight well that GT500 5.4 weighs more then the GT 5.4. You are talking about iron compared to aluminum plus the size difference and the weight of the S/C. When you add all that up it will be well over 250#'s and it will all be added to the nose. This will shift the weight ratio of your car from 60/40 to close to 75/25.

I am waiting for a friend of mine who is a certifed Ford tech to get back to me on this with parts and cost I am just rough estimating (without trans) at cost of 20k plus or minus, when the tech gets back to me I will post everything remember (if its way out there then sure no go) I will get a discount through him on parts and this will also be a side job so I am not paying dealership rates.

I will be upgrading to a 8.8 complete for around $500.00, I will keep the stock trans for now T-5 still it goes out then either beef it for around $800.00, or go to a track trans rated at 800rwhp for around $2-2.5K along with DS, I have a Pony Package similar GT suspension but know I will need the K Frams, springs, radiator, thinking engine management comes with the complete motor package so not sure on this, I already have dual exhaust, but of course would need CAI, need headers, or/x pipe. I know I will need other parts but other than the parts I listed I am not sure what everything else is needed part wise but no big ticket items ($$$) stick out at me that I could think of :). So when he gets back to me I will post everything

you will most likely need dampners and such, but not necessarily right at the beginning. Where can you get an 8.8 for 500 bucks? you should jump on that whether or not you are going this route, you could sell it for twice that.

petepete

12-12-2006, 07:29 PM

my eyes are bleeding

Krazer

12-12-2006, 07:29 PM

you will most likely need dampners and such, but not necessarily right at the beginning. Where can you get an 8.8 for 500 bucks? you should jump on that whether or not you are going this route, you could sell it for twice that.

Here you go.
http://www.speedconcepts.net/product_info.php?products_id=728

I also read of a guy on one of the other forums selling them for even cheaper he sells GT take off parts I think he said around $400.00 if I remember but this was awhile ago but when you ready to buy let me I could try and track it down for you.

Krazer

12-12-2006, 07:40 PM

ORIGINAL: petepete

my eyes are bleeding

LMAO hi five that was funny same here debating ocd03gro! :D

Krazer

12-13-2006, 11:39 AM

ocd03gro
I guess you are right, weight has barely any effect at all

I am not saying that I agree weight makes a difference everyone knows that I am saying (main point of our debate) yes the 5.4 is heavier but makes more rwhp/ torque and is supercharged the higher power 5.4 along with being supercharged (S/C better power down low & shelf/band) more than makes up for the weight when comparing it to the lower power lighter Crammer. You see the weight is a non issue when choosing which motor to go with in this swap as the more powerfull SC 5.4 compensates for that over the lower powered lighter Crammer. The GT 500 S/C 5.4 ( per mods on the 10 sec ET) Mustang will run a faster ET than a lower powered lighter Crammer with CAI, tune, headers, or/x, exhaust, 4.10s DR's..

This is my argument and main point with you on this debate.

This is my last post with you on this debate :)

petepete

12-14-2006, 10:35 PM

http://www.seanhylandmotorsport.com/2007_Shelby_gt500_engine.shtml check those bad boys out

DelStang86

12-15-2006, 01:52 AM

dude... it's not cost effective. the days of carbs are over and there's no such thing as a cheap/easy swap
you have to do all the wiring, which i assure you is a bitch
you have to swap the engine in, get the trans, driveshaft, 8.8 rear, k-member, a-arms, springs, possibly a new steering assembly, re-arrange the whole engine bay, etc

you can dream all day, but good luck affording all that stuff.. i just don't see the point when you could just take that 4.0 and turbocharge it. EVO is only in the 9's with their gt500, and they have plenty of money for R&D... it's just not feasible.

DelStang86

12-15-2006, 01:57 AM

and besides... imagine if your car got wrecked... your insurance definitely wouldn't cover aftermarket parts, and they might not cover you at all.. i've heard of guys losing their insurance for modding and getting into a wreck

cvz_finezt

12-21-2006, 03:24 AM

I say 12 Second V6 with 330 to 360hp is fine for anyone with a need for speed, i know it is fine for me. and besides whats the use of having all tht power when ur stuck in traffic eating up all ur gas?? come on really ya know. my car is quick and fast and looks good too, and will shut up many a ricer out there ya know. but yea u can never have too much horsepower... but it sucks when u cant use it either.

Krazer

12-27-2006, 06:23 PM

Just a update still waiting on the parts list and cost on what this swap would run but did recieve an e-mail update from him (Ford tech friend)to bad I love the S197 body style to much because thisMach 1for salesounds decent below. I am just not intothe older body style and is the reason I switchover toFord and bought a S197.

When I getthe the info on what partsare needed and cost of this swapI will post it.

Hey - I'm sorry I haven' tgotten back to you yet, I've been incredibly
busy lately.

I'll get into the whole 5.4 swap with you shortly, but Just a real
quickie you might be interested in..

My buddy is selling his '04 Mach1. It's fast. And it's got TONS of room
to grow too. It's already got the aluminum "Teskid" block (6-bolt
mains, virtually indestructible) with .020 over (283cid) Forged Pistons
(8.5:1) and Forged H-beam rods too, stock cams & heads. Also has a P1SC
Procharger on it at around 12-13psi, kind of a small blower for the setup
but it still makes great power. Put down almost 500rwhp on pump gas and
has run low 11's in the 1/4 in street-trim. Traps around 125mph.

Also has a built solid 8.8 with 31-spline hardened axles, a 4.30 gear,
T-45 trans, it's in picture-perfect shape. It's color is "Azure Blue"
but either way I'm sure if you offered him $22,000 for it, he'd take it
in a heartbeat. It's a GREAT car with 100% perfect street manners. It
was tuned by Bob Kurgan and all the engine work was done by Rich Groh.
This whole setup can handle 800-900hp all day long with a bigger blower
on it, but as it sits right now it's a mid-11 second ride.

rygenstormlocke

12-27-2006, 09:57 PM

EVO is only in the 9's with their gt500, and they have plenty of money for R&D... it's just not feasible.

The 9 second passes were juiced runs if I remember correctly.

8cd03gro

12-28-2006, 03:18 AM

ORIGINAL: rygenstormlocke

EVO is only in the 9's with their gt500, and they have plenty of money for R&D... it's just not feasible.

The 9 second passes were juiced runs if I remember correctly.

mmmmhmmm

Krazer

12-30-2006, 09:59 PM

Been doing some research on the 03 Cobra motor that he mentioned using in a swap, man there is room to grow with these motors like he said.

Check this out
03 Cobra 4.6 motor w/Kennie Bell 600 rwhp 590 ft lbs and on nitrous 750 rwhp and 880 ft lb might have to take a closer look at this motor for a swap and shop price. I mean even if you don’t want to go nitrous 600rwhp/590 ft lbspretty decent, this motor can put out some serious power on stock internals.
http://www.stangbangers.com/03_DannysCobra.htm

Complete 03 4.6 Cobra motor $6750.00 rebuilt.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/2003-SUPERCHARGED-4-6-COBRA-MUSTANG-MOTOR-ENGINE-SVT_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ33615QQihZ006QQitem Z160063317084QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWDVW

I wonder what a used motor would go for?

I have read posts in V6 forums of guys asking about swapping a GT 4.6 motor in there V6and even in the GT forums of going of guysasking about swapping a5.4 (not even the GT 500 S/C 5.4) in thier Mustang GT, I think this Cobra motor is theway to go esp bang for the buck wise if the GT 500 5.4 S/C is out of range money wise.

I think imo some of you guys down the road ever decide to do a swap man you have some nice choices in motors (03-04 4.6 Cobra & 5.4 S/C) to build a very decent street car and or track car.

Just throwing this info out for you guys who have thought about a swap.

DelStang86

12-30-2006, 10:42 PM

the 4.6 modular 4v (which they have in the cobra/mach1 ['03,'04] responds amazingly well to simple bolt-ons. i was reading a build book that said with LT's, an intake, and cams, they were taking the hp up to 390-95 from the stock 305 rating. i've been working on an '03 AT mach1, and with a tune and an intake, we've dropped the 0-60 to low 5's. i'd definitely go with a 4.6 dohc setup if you absolutely insist on swapping.

Krazer

12-31-2006, 12:50 AM

ORIGINAL: DelStang86

the 4.6 modular 4v (which they have in the cobra/mach1 ['03,'04] responds amazingly well to simple bolt-ons. i was reading a build book that said with LT's, an intake, and cams, they were taking the hp up to 390-95 from the stock 305 rating. i've been working on an '03 AT mach1, and with a tune and an intake, we've dropped the 0-60 to low 5's. i'd definitely go with a 4.6 dohc setup if you absolutely insist on swapping.

I always knew the 03-04 Cobra motor was one of Fords top motors imovery nice motorbut never really looked close at it till lately all I can say is I amvery impressed with the motor power this thing can produce on only 281 ci's and stock internalswill serious take another look at this option and discuss it with him.

8cd03gro

12-31-2006, 01:03 AM

dont mean to nitpick but its ci, not cc. but yea the terminator motor responds extremely well to mods and is very powerful stock. there is a huge aftermarket for that motor too which is another plus.

Krazer

12-31-2006, 01:18 AM

ORIGINAL: 8cd03gro

dont mean to nitpick but its ci, not cc. but yea the terminator motor responds extremely well to mods and is very powerful stock. there is a huge aftermarket for that motor too which is another plus.

Thanks :)
(typo fixed it )

I'll be watching your post :)

I am liking this motor no doubt but still like the 5.4 S/C better imo (new, & morepower w/KB down the road etc more future proof down the road vs the competition)) but dam after researchingthis Cobramotor it does have my attention and depending on cost vs the 5.4 S/C if it is a decent enough savings $$$ going with a Cobra motor swapcould be the ticket!

8cd03gro

12-31-2006, 01:31 AM

yea you can make 500rwhp+ easy on the terminator motor which would make for a VERY fast s197

DelStang86

01-01-2007, 11:29 AM

AND, you can stroke it out to 5.0:D

cvz_finezt

01-07-2007, 09:51 AM

go with the TERMINATOR... cheaper...lots of parts...great if ur looking forpower... lots of ways to modd it... and it will fit in the engine bay... wont be as tight at will the 5.4. and did i mention cheaper too

wolfey2k

01-08-2007, 01:02 PM

ORIGINAL: rygenstormlocke

ORIGINAL: wolfey2k

By the way, I recently saw a brand spankin new Shelby GT500 out here in Tysons Corner Virginia for a mere $54K.
I could probably drive it off the show room floor for around 49 to 52K.

Wolfey

"Not to burst your bubble, but I doubt it can be had for 52k. That particular car in Tysons was offered to me for 67K. No thanks."

Yeah? Well to each his own.But someone drove that car off the showroom floor for 62K recently.
Just so ya know! I was wrong about the total sticker price. I didn'tsee any dealer markup sticker when I looked at it. Expensive ride for sure!
Interestingly I don't like the shelbyGT's lookas much as I domy pony.
I might consider upgrading my pony to a BOSS302 though. ;-)

8cd03gro

01-08-2007, 01:09 PM

or a boss 427 :)

rygenstormlocke

01-08-2007, 01:24 PM

ORIGINAL: wolfey2k

ORIGINAL: rygenstormlocke

ORIGINAL: wolfey2k

By the way, I recently saw a brand spankin new Shelby GT500 out here in Tysons Corner Virginia for a mere $54K.
I could probably drive it off the show room floor for around 49 to 52K.

Wolfey

"Not to burst your bubble, but I doubt it can be had for 52k. That particular car in Tysons was offered to me for 67K. No thanks."

Yeah? Well to each his own.But someone drove that car off the showroom floor for 62K recently.
Just so ya know! I was wrong about the total sticker price. I didn'tsee any dealer markup sticker when I looked at it. Expensive ride for sure!
Interestingly I don't like the shelbyGT's lookas much as I domy pony.
I might consider upgrading my pony to a BOSS302 though. ;-)

The prices should start to fall this year.

Krazer

01-14-2007, 12:12 AM

Update on pricing for this swap.

I have been waiting for an e-mail from Dave on parts and cost of this swap and I been trying to avoid seeing him calling him for a couple reasons till I get his e-mail first. I also at the time told I wanted to do something with in the next three months so he was thinking no big hurry.

This guy in his e-mails goes into to so much detail (packed with good info) and I absorb so much good info from his e-mails and I always refer back to them for referencing info.

So I am thinking if I talk to him I won’t remember every thing he tells me, won’t be able to reference back like I can with his past e-mails and plus I wanted to have something to post for you guys with parts and costs and keep my word I would post his e-mail.

Well I couldn’t wait anymore so went over by him and discussed this swap. Ok he has 110% convinced me the Ford 03-04 Cobra motor (used) is the way to go if I do this swap and after talking with him I agree with out a doubt. I love the S/C 5.4 for a few reasons, brand new, warranty from Ford, can make exc. rwhp down the road with just throwing a KB on it and did I say I like brand new! But that aside the Cobra is the way to for a number of reasons he laid out and I see his points and completely agree imo.

So on to cost of this swap I know some guys might not believe it (imo on the low side of what I thought) but to do this swap with a used Cobra motor, all supporting parts needed and his labor I am looking at right around 10K. I am thinking to myself when he told me this wow that is less than I thought so I say to him you know that is reasonable. He said yeah I did a swap for a guy in an older Mustang we picked up a 03 Cobra motor with trans in MI for $5,500.00. he goes so if we can get a motor for around 5.5k – 6k your looking at around 10k total with parts and my labor and of course that is without the rear end.

I guess that is if I find one with a tranny if not need to add the cost of a tranny plus the 8.8 and D.S.

The one thing that doesn’t appeal to me is I have to go with a used motor then I havetofind one and buy one where I could pick it up before I lay out the cash. The other thing who know how beat it is or if it was abused not brand new like the S/C 5.4 would of been

Speaking of buying a Cobra motor Check this, guys putting Cobra motors on e-bay for sale and sending you a picture of it after you pay them it instead of the motor.
http://www.fordmuscle.com/archives/2005/03/EditorsCorner/index.php

The other thing while I was waiting for his e-mail I was deciding well what other option for more rwhp for my little 4.0 will I go if I decide against the swap because there is no way I going stock again this summer.

So I did some research/thinking on what imo would be for me to go with and it is the X Charger I have X Charger fever. I mean this is fairly simple bolt on I could do myself, have a car that should run high 12’s (manual / 2.80&/w.i), awesome eye candy and since imo I don’t want to take this 4.0 motor past 9psi and stay around 310-320rwhp max on stock internals so this fits me perfect and these are just a few of the reasons I could go on.

Decisions decisions this sucks but is a good thing (nice problem to have) because what ever the option I am going to be rolling faster so I have to do some thinking on this.

Couple things real quick come to mind I like to share from talk with Dave.

Early 03 cobra motors had a bad head on one side 2 cylinders would over heat not good.
I didn’t know this these motors have 6 bolt mains I know he mention the techskid motor in the posted e-mail but I didn’t know the cobra did for sure.

Rygenstormlocke that 20% thingy in my last pm to youwent up a little. :)

X

rygenstormlocke

01-14-2007, 10:21 AM

Well if a 12 second car is your goal, you can do that with the cobra motor, or with a blower on your current car. Except a blower on your current car will be a lot cheaper. For a track monster, the terminator swap sounds insane. What about labor costs, and fab costs to shoehorn the motor in.

Krazer

01-14-2007, 02:03 PM

ORIGINAL: rygenstormlocke

Well if a 12 second car is your goal, you can do that with the cobra motor, or with a blower on your current car. Except a blower on your current car will be a lot cheaper. For a track monster, the terminator swap sounds insane. What about labor costs, and fab costs to shoehorn the motor in.

rygenstormlocke my goal with the Cobra motor would be low 11's witha little work on (ported blower etc) the Cobra motor @close to 500rwhp and the other thing down the road I have the option if I want to go faster of going with the KB blower hopefully putting downclose to 600rwhp all on stock internals which this motor can handle no problem.

The 12 second car goal you mentioned is what I would like to run if I just keep the 4.0 and that is the max I want to push it on stock internals.
The one thing I don't like with the swap like I mentioned above postI wouldhave to hunt down a used motor, pick it up,would need to find one locally within a few states so I could pick it up and pay at that time not going to send money though e-bay and hope it comes :).Who knows if its been abused,could have been popped and would I be getting something put back together poorly I mean so many things go through my head when thinking used.I am really just looking at this option right now the above is a big turn off for me. The S/C 5.4 buying brand new from Ford really appealed to me butif I going to do a swap the Cobra motor is the way to go for a number of reason he stated.

On your question on what cost and fab cost like I mentioned above around total 10k with motor and installed, thats if I geta usedmotor around 5.5K-6k with the supporting parts and labor to complete the swap would be around 4k so around 10k total. That total is with out the 8.8, DS and if I don't get a trans with the motor the trans also would not be included tin that totalcost . He also mentioned that he hasn't look into doing this on a S197before but isn't seeing any problems off the top of his head on this type of swap but will be looking into it this week.

So like I mentioned in the PMto you before I had talked withDave it was a 20% chance I would do this swap but after talking with Dave that percent went up a little esp around 10K completebut theused motor thing is bumming me out big time per my concerns above. SoI don't know which way as of now. TheX Chargersetup is so simple, sweetand so much less to go thoughvs the above but I love the ideal of the Cobra V8(rwhp) swap also. I don't know I am going to think long and hard for the next week at the same time searching and making calls to see whats out there motor (used) wise.

rygenstormlocke

01-14-2007, 03:10 PM

Well, with the cobra swap, taking it in for maitenance might be a tad interesting. Not a big deal but something to consider. Have you ever considered putting the X on this car, and just getting a old project car like a Fox LX or even a old early 90s cobra. I'm still eyeing that Boss, but if its cost prohibitive, I will be going a old mustang project car route myself. Either way, there will be two mustangs in my garage soon.

Lastly, on a used motor, I wouldn't take it unless you get it magnafluxed for integrity. On my new block, PH had it tested before they started working it. The last thing you want is a block with a tiny fracture in it. I've heard of a few cobra guys over on m-odularfords with damaged blocks, just running thier blocks under low boost while they save up for a new motor.

Krazer

01-14-2007, 07:48 PM

ORIGINAL: rygenstormlocke

Well, with the cobra swap, taking it in for maitenance might be a tad interesting. Not a big deal but something to consider. Have you ever considered putting the X on this car, and just getting a old project car like a Fox LX or even a old early 90s cobra. I'm still eyeing that Boss, but if its cost prohibitive, I will be going a old mustang project car route myself. Either way, there will be two mustangs in my garage soon.

Lastly, on a used motor, I wouldn't take it unless you get it magnafluxed for integrity. On my new block, PH had it tested before they started working it. The last thing you want is a block with a tiny fracture in it. I've heard of a few cobra guys over on m-odularfords with damaged blocks, just running thier blocks under low boost while they save up for a new motor.

Yea on the maitenance thing no big deal as far as your other question project car I came over from the other side of the tracks (always GM) don’t have interest in doing an older Mustang I want to do something with a S197 & represent around here. I remember the first time I seen this new style S197 I had that deer in the headlight look! So this is the car and only one I want to play with and set up.

The Boss yes no doubt I was on that ideal for awhile but after hearing on forums that most likely going to be marked up who knows 40K-50K. That’s why when I saw the S/C 5.4 motor complete w/warr thinking man that’s it I could have my own SE/SVT. I could be happy with the rwhp this motor is capable (modded) for less money than a Boss and have it now and enjoy it for two years before the Boss even comes that out kind of put the Boss ideal out of my mind.

On having the block manufluxed Mike had yours manufluxed because it was stripped down (minus all internals) to the block and then that’s when you manuflux it then put it together and you B&B the motor. The Cobra motor would not be torn down there for ni manuflux it would go right in the car. The only thing before install would be done run some diag. checks,, inspect plugs, compression check in each cylinder, change the oil, drop the oil pan clean & inspect, check for metal clean it etc button it up and start the motor. Then if everything looks good then go ahead and drop it in the car and keep my fingers cross after the first couple hard runs. :)

I would tell you this if I knew of a Cobra motor right now locally within a few states and knew to be sound this would be a done deal for me to do this swap. But since it is not the case and chances are of me finding one as outlined above (sound) in the very near future is slim imo not going stock again this springs/summer want my car setup by this april the latest so I will most likely be signing up for the group buy.

I will say this even if I go X Charger and in the future I come across a Cobra motor that I know to be sound I could always just pull off the X and sell it I mean hey I should be able to sell it for 2k-2.5 it’s a nice system. So I lose around 1K or so you know very well in the grand scheme (building a 10-11 sec car)of this sport/hobby that is not a lot of money to worry about and would be no problem knowing I am stepping up to the Cobra motor.

Hey speaking of insane when do we get updated info and numbers (no #'s in the pm)on your ride talk about insane I just can’t wait to see what that 4.0 runs that thing could be consider a pro street machine imo but I know it’s a DD unreal.

rygenstormlocke

01-15-2007, 03:13 PM

Thanks man. PH is building the remaining parts now, so will not have numbers for a few weeks. We decided to pretty much do it all, heads, cams, valves, everything. They really can do it all, I'm quite impressed. They did a custom roll cage for a GT turbo customer (Brads car), simply insane. Check it out: http://www.modularfords.com/forums/2005-mustang/winter-powerhouse-mods-complete-71661.html

Krazer

01-15-2007, 04:50 PM

ORIGINAL: rygenstormlocke

Thanks man. PH is building the remaining parts now, so will not have numbers for a few weeks. We decided to pretty much do it all, heads, cams, valves, everything. They really can do it all, I'm quite impressed. They did a custom roll cage for a GT turbo customer (Brads car), simply insane. Check it out: http://www.modularfords.com/forums/2005-mustang/winter-powerhouse-mods-complete-71661.html

I seen the laundry list at ********** forum and of course in the pm lately the setup looks rock solid and since you’re the firstwe are going know how well a built 4.0 bottom end can hold some big time power! The last I remember I believe you were running 320rwhp/380rwtq I think, on a Mustang dyno. The thing that struck me with amazement is how you were closing in on the Powerhouse TC 4.0 ET (12psi/11.81 et) with an auto vs thier manual 5k launches, running 2psi lower and not even race gas like they were till your mishap that was killer imo.

So with that being said I look forward to seeing your numbers vs your old ones and what the psi your now going to be running on this setup.

Glad you don’t live in my area if I ever get that Cobra swap deal done I hate to have to go up against you and that monster.

Hey what an ideal!!! I could see it now

The Stella Monster V6 High Powered 4.0 rwhp UNKNOWN!!! Vs Shakia The High FlyingV8 Powered Terminator RWHP UNKNOW!!!

We could bill it as the Classic V8 vs V6 S197 take down!!

LMAO don’t mind me just having some fun I think??? LoL
Dam let me find a motor ;) lol

I’d have to push some dam good rwhp/rwtq with the Eaton to have a chance.