If I am not mistaken 22 for the rim and 28 for the tire or the other way around. It is either, can someone be more exact on this? I remember the total was 50lbs.
I'm interested in the stock weight as well. I ordered my 07' and was gonna stick some 20"s on it right after it arrived. In terms of 1/4 mile times, what would you think the time difference would be? .1, .05? Guess I'll just have to put on a supercharger to make up the power loss. Let me go tell the wife...
LOL! Your question is legit but it makes me laugh as that is exactly my whole point!
There will be a trade off as assuming you should get better traction with running a tire with larger contact patch but with possibly more weight you will have to over come or absorb the performance loss (OMG I just typed that) when it comes to acceration rate of velocity. (you guys like that one huh) I don’t think many can answer your question because we have no accurate measurement of IF or HOW MUCH you can launch harder therefore you will be quicker but accelerate slower as the car moves down the track! IMO the 20’s would have a greater impact to provide more of a difference in the 1/8 mile than the ¼ mile as everyone’s argument is truly accelerating rotating mass! One thing is for sure if the race never ended and with enough data we could graph this and these two lines would intersect somewhere! WHEW!
To answer what I thought was a question; Do I think 20” rims are better for drag racing then say 17” or 18”? Nope! I just don’t like generalized statements against something that are unfounded! There are some 20” rim/tire combos that OUT PERFORMS some 17” rim/tire combos in drag racing and that is why I choose to fight this battle!
Sometimes I just have too much fun! 05SDI
< Message edited by 05SDI -- 11/28/2006 8:01:50 PM >
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I slept in a Holiday Inn Express so I am posting here with confidence! Currently own 5 Mustangs: 06 Saleen 281S/C Vert clone; 06 V6 Pony Package vert; 67 GTA; 69 302 w/4 speed; 69 351 auto.
20" for looks the cons are they ride rough, less side wall give under power results in wheel spin on hard take off's with 17's " I was 2 tenths faster 1/4 mile may have had one rotation
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2007 mustang GT 3d carbon body kit 4.10 gears comp cams , lentech transmission ,procharger s/c 10 psi, ceramic headers, hi flow x-overs, cat back exhaust, , ford racing fuel pump NEW 2008 vista blue convertible roush charger stangmotorsports.com
I had the stock 18's on my 06GT. I bought the Roush 18's which are 18x10. Dunno what stock are 18x8 or 8.5? I also had to get bigger wheels for them.. from stock to 275/40 18. I couldnt find anywhere that told the weight of the Roush wheels.
I wonder how much power or acceleration I lost....?
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2006 GT Premium, 5 Spd 18" Roush wheels on 275/40/18''''s Xenon quarter scoops SLP Crew Member ...more to come
I stare at fat women, that doesn't mean i like them.
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ORIGINAL: slow07
I changed from 18" fanblades to 20" wheels with nearly stock size tires (I don't remember the size, and the car is not with me). Anyway my arm scale nor my buttdyno could tell a noticeable difference. However, my eye-attention meter could tell a big difference. I can't go anywhere without people starring at the car.
< Message edited by moosestang -- 11/28/2006 8:48:07 PM >
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whipple HO SC,FRPP springs, Pypes mid mufflers, Che adj. LCA, hurst, 4.10's, 1 piece DS, spec stg 2 clutch. Accel coils 12.52@117.6mph so far with a 2.01 60 ft time(pre shaft, coils, clutch).
There are some 20” rim/tire combos that OUT PERFORMS some 17” rim/tire combos in drag racing and that is why I choose to fight this battle!
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whipple HO SC,FRPP springs, Pypes mid mufflers, Che adj. LCA, hurst, 4.10's, 1 piece DS, spec stg 2 clutch. Accel coils 12.52@117.6mph so far with a 2.01 60 ft time(pre shaft, coils, clutch).
ORIGINAL: 05SDI Were in the heck did you pull those numbers from?
SO your saying someone with a good CAI & tune wearing 20" will be even in RWHP as a 100% stock GT?
I THINK NOT!
All you guys saying larger rims hurt performance; Here is your perfect example: Do you have any proof that the GT’s with 18" rims are slower then the GT’s with 17" rims......
I THINK NOT!
A good CAI + Tune is worth 25 or so HP on average. I'd say a 10 HP loss is about right for the average set of 20's. Thus, the modded car with the 20's would still be better off than a stock GT, but by less of a margin than he otherwise would.
Go to the "other forum" (m o d u l a r f o r d s). There are numerous firsthand dyno experiences described there. The proof of the power loss is EMPIRICAL.
By the way, I HAVE weighed the OEM wheels, and they only differ by about half a pound each between 17" and 18". That's not enough to see a significant change in performance. However, I have handled and weighed some 20" wheels that were 18 lbs HEAVIER than the oem wheels. Ouch!!!!
The issue is the WEIGHT of the wheel-tire combo. Of course, there are heavy wheels in all sizes. However, the logic goes like this: The TYPICAL 20" wheel, or "Dub" if you prefer that term, is not made with performance in mind. It is designed for style. As such, weight is a very minor concern, if it is a concern at all. Thus the AVERAGE 20" wheel is significantly heavier than the OEM 17" and 18" wheels. Think about it, the average person cares about what their wheels look like. You might ask your buddies or your fellow forum members "what do you think about these wheels for my car" and then point to a picture. You see guys like Chip Foose design wheels on TV. He gets out a sketch pad and draws what he thinks looks good. That's shopping based on LOOKS. How often do you see someone shop around for wheels by asking for weights? Or even better, moment of inertia? That information is difficult to find becasue the average customer doesn't care about those specs. Consequently they are also less important for the wheel makers.
A 20" wheel is not a performance wheel, at least not on these cars. The 20 will leave you with a very thin sidewall, which in addition to making your ride uncomfortable, also greatly reduces the torsional sidewall give in the tires--and that is key to getting a good hookup on the drag strip. Take a look at what the serious drag racers are doing: They ditch the OEM wheels and they go through a lot of effort to modify the rear end so they can put on 16" or 15" wheels in the back. That lets them put some serious wrinkle-wall tires on there.
Sure, you could get your 20's with some nice, wide, grippy tires. And that might be better than stock for traction (Due to the tires and the extra width). But getting the same type of tire on 18" or 17" rims would be even better. Then you'd have the added contact area and the sticky rubber but less of the weight. The serious racers known this. That's why they run 15" Bogarts that weight half what the OEM wheels do, and give them a nice fat wrinkewall sidewall.
BUT, a lot of people don't do that becasue 20" wheels are the hot style these days. And there's nothing wrong with that. Just about everything on these cars is a compromise of one sort or another. If you like your 20's, great! More power to you. But understand that if your wheels are particularly heavy (which most 20s are) then you will loose some power becasue of it.
+1 I'm glad you said took the time to say all that. 20's don't have any sidewall and don't work as well at the track, not to mention the weight.
I guess I could always throw on my stock 17" wheels when I go to the track and burn them off there. I emailed American Racing to see if they will provide me with the weight of the wheel I want (AR Rogue Black, 20 x 8.5). Does anyone know if there is a weight savings with the tire having a smaller sidewall and how the total wheel/tire weight compares?
you run 20 inch tires same horse power as someone runing 17,s runnig mickeys 2 tenths faster with mickey street radials. Look i run 20's on the street and 17 mickeys at the track and if could have put 16" rims on i would have less weight more pony on the ground
2007 mustang GT 3d carbon body kit 4.10 gears comp cams , lentech transmission ,procharger s/c 10 psi, ceramic headers, hi flow x-overs, cat back exhaust, , ford racing fuel pump NEW 2008 vista blue convertible roush charger stangmotorsports.com
Posts: 78
Joined: 9/19/2006 From: San Angelo,TX fighting polygamy since 4/4/08 Status: offline
I think it all boils down to the fact that if all things are equal (tire diameter/width/etc) except the wheel size and weight, the 17 will perform better than the 20 in the 1/4. How much better? That will depend on many things, driver, HP, gears etc. A car with 500hp and a 4.10 rear will not feel the effects as much as a 210hp car with a 3.23 rear. I agree with 05SDI that it is not true that all 17 inch wheel/tires will outperform all 20 inch wheel/tires. A good (light & wide) 20 inch wheel/tire will most likely outperform a bad(heavy & narrow) 17 inch wheel/tire on the same car.
that is what i was trying say if all thing are the same the smaller lighter tires will out preform the larger ones
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2007 mustang GT 3d carbon body kit 4.10 gears comp cams , lentech transmission ,procharger s/c 10 psi, ceramic headers, hi flow x-overs, cat back exhaust, , ford racing fuel pump NEW 2008 vista blue convertible roush charger stangmotorsports.com
There are some 20” rim/tire combos that OUT PERFORMS some 17” rim/tire combos in drag racing
Any chance you could be less general?
Nope! I'm thinking I did a pretty good job of dumb-ing that one up just right! lol
Hey nice looking car even if it is only sportin 18's! j/k but I do like your car!
OK I got one more example;
Even heavy 20"s will not affect acceleration and handling as much as having one or two of our fat beer drinkin buddies climb in and wants us to show them “what it’ll do"? Last week just before I put our car away for the winter I had to have had 350lbs of passengers in the back seats, I had just topped off with fuel so there was an easy 400 pounds over the rear end I wasn't used to! I about missed a slow 90 degree corner because I thought I was going to break the rear end loose and go around the corner but unbelievably hooked up from weight in the rear and the front just washed out “whoa crap!” After some brakes and steering input, and I got heading where I wanted, I looked at my back buddies and said that they'd have to go on a diet before we tried this again! Not 5 miles later, I drag the rear as I SLOWLY rolled over a speed bump! The rest of this story will be continued in another thread as I have questions….. 05SDI
< Message edited by 05SDI -- 11/29/2006 12:24:17 AM >
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I slept in a Holiday Inn Express so I am posting here with confidence! Currently own 5 Mustangs: 06 Saleen 281S/C Vert clone; 06 V6 Pony Package vert; 67 GTA; 69 302 w/4 speed; 69 351 auto.
Your guessing? It doesn't even say how much those weigh. I'm guessing that a 17 inch rim with a tire of 30 diameter or more will result in less rwhp, but probably hook at hell of a lot better than any 245/35/20 will.
This is insane! Anyone with 20's who wants to race?
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ORIGINAL: Sleeper05
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ORIGINAL: moosestang
Any chance you could be less general?
quote:
ORIGINAL: 05SDI
There are some 20” rim/tire combos that OUT PERFORMS some 17” rim/tire combos in drag racing and that is why I choose to fight this battle!
whipple HO SC,FRPP springs, Pypes mid mufflers, Che adj. LCA, hurst, 4.10's, 1 piece DS, spec stg 2 clutch. Accel coils 12.52@117.6mph so far with a 2.01 60 ft time(pre shaft, coils, clutch).
I stare at fat women, that doesn't mean i like them.
quote:
ORIGINAL: slow07
I changed from 18" fanblades to 20" wheels with nearly stock size tires (I don't remember the size, and the car is not with me). Anyway my arm scale nor my buttdyno could tell a noticeable difference. However, my eye-attention meter could tell a big difference. I can't go anywhere without people starring at the car.
moosestang is trying to crack jokes. Everyone watch out. I can tell the difference between a good stare, and a WTF stare.
I found out today that the 20" wheels I am going to buy are about 35 lbs. I'm waiting to see how much the tires weigh to see how much the total will be. Anyone out there that has 17" or 18" stock wheels wanna pull one off and throw it on the scale for us?
I weighed my 17's on the bathroom scale and it was exactly 50lbs with the stock pirelli's.
quote:
ORIGINAL: GrabberOrange07
I found out today that the 20" wheels I am going to buy are about 35 lbs. I'm waiting to see how much the tires weigh to see how much the total will be. Anyone out there that has 17" or 18" stock wheels wanna pull one off and throw it on the scale for us?
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whipple HO SC,FRPP springs, Pypes mid mufflers, Che adj. LCA, hurst, 4.10's, 1 piece DS, spec stg 2 clutch. Accel coils 12.52@117.6mph so far with a 2.01 60 ft time(pre shaft, coils, clutch).
When you see something out of place it's only natural to stare at it.
quote:
ORIGINAL: slow07
quote:
ORIGINAL: moosestang
I stare at fat women, that doesn't mean i like them.
quote:
ORIGINAL: slow07
I changed from 18" fanblades to 20" wheels with nearly stock size tires (I don't remember the size, and the car is not with me). Anyway my arm scale nor my buttdyno could tell a noticeable difference. However, my eye-attention meter could tell a big difference. I can't go anywhere without people starring at the car.
moosestang is trying to crack jokes. Everyone watch out. I can tell the difference between a good stare, and a WTF stare.
< Message edited by moosestang -- 11/30/2006 5:01:15 PM >
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whipple HO SC,FRPP springs, Pypes mid mufflers, Che adj. LCA, hurst, 4.10's, 1 piece DS, spec stg 2 clutch. Accel coils 12.52@117.6mph so far with a 2.01 60 ft time(pre shaft, coils, clutch).
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RE: Power loss with 20's? here we go again! - 
