New member with suspension ????
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New member with suspension ???? - 10/18/2006 4:12:47 PM
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1960lespaul
Posts: 10
Joined: 10/18/2006
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Hello all. I am new to the board. I have always loved muscle cars and bought my first one last summer. A 72 BB Nova. Traded up to a 72 BB Chevelle and traded up again for a cherry 1970 RS BB Camaro. I have always wanted a Mustang as well. I dont have a brand loyalty. I like them all. My father-n-law gave me his 65 coupe that need restoring but is extremely solid. No rust. Pulled the carpet back and the floors were still shiny.
I plan to do the Mustang Depot sinister body kit on it and in my hunt for parts I have come across a decision I have to make. I am not that skilled in car repair so I rely on some of my friends who are. I went to Fatman Fab's website and checked out his rear wonderbar coil over setup including front strut setup. This all cost about 3500.00 plus I need to come up with brakes and spindles so 4000.00. Fatman ragged on the Heidts unit saying it was unsafe as it puts too much weight in an area not intended. Mustang Depot who sells the Heidts for 2100.00 said to come here and ask about Fatman products. She said she wont carry their parts and wouldn't run them down but said people in the forums would give me an idea of how bad they are.
So Mustang depot ask what did I intend to do with the car. I said restore as a semi show car but DRIVE it. She said to stay away from Fatman and the Heidts unit because since I wasn't racing it neither was worth the cost. She said to get their ultimate suspension kit which is like a stock setup but better. I plan on using a 17 x 8 tire on the front and worried that I will go thru tires because of bumsteer. They do offer parts to correct it for about 300.00 and the ultra kit is only 870.00. What would you all do?
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RE: New member with suspension ???? - 10/18/2006 4:18:42 PM
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paddy187
Posts: 1139
Joined: 6/19/2006
From: Leiden, Netherlands
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Not that i am expert on this stuff hopefully scott will reply but total control products are meant to good stuff so i hear
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RE: New member with suspension ???? - 10/18/2006 4:30:45 PM
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Soaring
Posts: 17565
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Hello Frank, and welcome to the Classic section of Mustangforums.com. There are many options you can make regarding upgrading the front suspension on a classic Mustang, and there are many companies who specialize in just that, to include Fatman. Read this article, then come back with a specific question about which direction you want to go.
http://www.nzmustang.com/Newintoold/newintoold.htm
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RE: New member with suspension ???? - 10/18/2006 11:07:58 PM
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1960lespaul
Posts: 10
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Soaring, now I am even more confused lol. Just teasing. Paddy187 was correct. TCP offers excellent parts and as a matter of fact Mustang Depot uses that exact front set up. Here is my problem. Money isn't that big an issue. I got that covered and my wife is very supportive of this project. But I dont want to spend money unwisely either.
So Fatman has a bolt in kit for 2k that includes a bunch of extras but I have to find spindles. The Heidts kit like the RCMotorsport kit involve removing the export bars and shock towers. Fatman didn't like the mustang II kit because of the moving stuff and said that it weakens the front end because the firewall is designed to carry the weight and by moving a bunch of stuff it makes the front structurally unsafe. I do like the fact that I get free brakes and rack and pinion. I am leaning toward TCP or Fatman because its a bolt up kit and I will just eat the cost of the rack and pinion. I like fatmans rear coil over wonderbar setup for 1500.00. What do you think of it? Also have you or anyone heard anything bad about Fatman fab? Also what does everyonr think of the Ultra suspension kit from Mustang depot. www.mustangdepot.com Thats the cheapest setup for about 1K but more like stock. Does anyonr beleve this setup is betterthan original?
One last thing Soaring. How easy is it to steer a non powered R&P and do you think going power is the only way to go? Thanks for everyones help!!
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RE: New member with suspension ???? - 10/19/2006 6:17:49 AM
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andrewmp6
Posts: 4013
Joined: 10/2/2006
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im kinda in the same boat i need to notch the shock towers or remove them to fit in my 460 in a 68 im stuck between the mustang 2 kit or the rsr kit
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RE: New member with suspension ???? - 10/19/2006 6:50:16 AM
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Soaring
Posts: 17565
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My vote would be to not change the structure by taking out export braces, etc. As far as steering, the 65-66 with R&P manual are OK, but the 67 and up are heavier, and in tight spots like parallel parking, the power is a nice feature.
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RE: New member with suspension ???? - 10/19/2006 10:35:52 AM
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1960lespaul
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Yeah Andrew. Your choices are limited. You have to get those towers out of the way. I am building up a 302 so I like to have the towers remain. I think it would look funny with that little motor and all that room. I have decided on the fatman wonderbar coil over rear set up and the the TCP front coil overs. It ought to corner like a go car lol. Thanks for everyones help.
< Message edited by 1960lespaul -- 10/19/2006 10:36:05 AM >
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RE: New member with suspension ???? - 10/19/2006 10:48:23 AM
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andrewmp6
Posts: 4013
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im scared if i use the mustang 2 kit ill weaken the front end with the rsr they sell the plates to notch the sturt towers ill gain 11 inchs think that would be enough so i could change the plugs with out pulling the engine
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RE: New member with suspension ???? - 10/20/2006 12:24:42 AM
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Scott H.
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A 460 in the front is going to ruin any handling the car has anyways, so you might as well go MII. As for the Fatman stuff. Not sure I'd agree with the "handle like a go cart". Although a 3 link can be an exceptional rear end setup, I don't think Fatmans is engineered for great handling. On the other side, with a good set of airbags and the right valving you could probably kick butt at the car hop contests!
Soaring is right there are so many different ways to go it's amazing. Doesn't take a lot of money, just well spent money. Put away the marketing garbage, and read through some of the many threads on handling across the different Mustang forums. I'd look for threads posted by 2bav8 on this forum. Also look closely at the Maier Racing stuff, as well as Opentracker racing products. IMO, best bang for the buck is with Opentracker's stuff.
If you wife likes to drive, or you occasionally cruise around with a drink in your hand (non-alcoholic of course), stick with some form of power steering.
No one is making a truly correct power rack and pinion for the standard "rear steer" suspension yet. Those of us who have bought the kits are living with the shortcomings (extended turning radius, non standard parts) for the precise steering and ease of turning.
There is another way, but I don't have first hand knowledge yet. I'm hoping one of our other members tries it. He's somewhat local, and I'm sure he'd let me check it out. There is a company out of Southern California that adapts a pitman arm to a true power steer box that may be out of a Toyota product. You would use a V8 manual steer drag link, idler arm and tie rod ends. This completely eliminates the valve and cylinder that causes the vague feeling with stock Mustang steering. It is still recirculating ball so quality and durability of the steer box is going to be important
If anyone is interested in trying this, I'd be willing to do the install for free, you'd just have to buy all the parts from the vendor of your choice, and bring your car to my house in Tracy, CA.
If no one else does this, I may go ahead and do the swap myself, just to see how it works.
Which ever way you guys go, best of luck. No need to be a suspension genius. It's pretty tough to make the stock suspension any worse.
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RE: New member with suspension ???? - 10/20/2006 1:06:01 AM
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1960lespaul
Posts: 10
Joined: 10/18/2006
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Scott thanks for the input. Now my bubble has been burst lol.I was set on the fatman rearend. I really do appreciate your input. I am not that mechanically inclined so I really depend on people like you and the rest of the people here. I am also new to Mustang parts search. So do you think a 4 link is that much better and what would you suggest. I think I am set on the TCP for the front. I have heard nothing but good things about it. I am a little bumbed about the rack and pinion choices now. Which do you think is the best? I did find out that The Drivenman site has a direct bolt in tremec 5speed. Spoke to Robert there and said he put on in his 66 and fits in the original floor cut out.
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RE: New member with suspension ???? - 10/20/2006 1:26:50 AM
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1960lespaul
Posts: 10
Joined: 10/18/2006
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Also you mention Maier. What about using Maier leaf springs with lowering kit along with the Maier pan hard rod set up. I can get this for 500.00
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RE: New member with suspension ???? - 10/20/2006 2:04:45 AM
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6t9 stang
Posts: 295
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speaking from experience. go with TCP. i have the tcp suspension on my car and i would recomend it. it will also save you a hell of a lot of money.
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RE: New member with suspension ???? - 10/20/2006 2:43:42 AM
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Scott H.
Posts: 2147
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Sorry man, didn't mean to burst your bubble. It's just that the two companies are so different. TCP builds serious "driver" stuff. Fatman builds beautiful "show" stuff. Go one way or the other, but don't mix them together.
Yeah, I've got a T5 in mine as well. I really like it a lot. Especially as I have not yet put the V8 in. Really adds a lot of performance to the 6 cylinder. www.moderndriveline.com has a sweet mount that is really stout and leaves plenty of room for the exhaust.
(IMO) Well, to be honest I'm not 100% sold on any of the rack kits out. None of them are 100% correct. I think TCP is closest (80%), Randalls Rack (78%) is right behind TCP.
Rear end wise, it's another story. It's going to take some serious effort (read a lot of modifications to the chassis) to get a 4 link not to bind. There isn't much room to run long enough links. Heck it takes some serious work to get a 3 link not to bind.
You can make a leaf spring rear handle really well, it just takes setup time (yes there is binding with leaf springs as well). Fortunately they've been working on it for 40 years, so it's just a matter of deciding how you want the car to ride and handle. Within realistic goals.
For a weekend cruiser, that you could take a nice week long tour in, I think TCP will do you well. You need an inteligent suspension person not to screw around with the upper control arms and get them all out of whack. Their rack and pinion works fine too. Just make sure to use their KRC pump. I'd think seriously about keeping the rear leafs for now. In a few years we should have a good selection of 3 link and IRS conversions that have been tested and tuned to work correctly. We aren't there on any of the over the shelf stuff I've seen. Except in a couple of race only versions, that would crush your spine on a weekend run. Give it another year, and I think you will see some real improvements in what is available as "bolt in" for the average consumer.
In the meantime, some Del-Alum front spring eye bushings, a rear HD polyurethane shackle kit, some type of lateral locating device, traction control, and a set of compression/rebound manually adjustable shocks will take you 90% of the way there. Heck if you want you can even pick up a set of Carbon Fiber leaf springs.
Good luck,
Scott
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RE: New member with suspension ???? - 10/20/2006 3:21:30 AM
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2bav8
Posts: 209
Joined: 4/25/2006
From: Mesa, AZ
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I just wanted to say that I agree 100% with Scott 
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RE: New member with suspension ???? - 10/20/2006 7:59:47 AM
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Soaring
Posts: 17565
Joined: 10/29/2004
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Another upgrade besides the suspension would be the sub frame connectors to tie that uni-body together. http://www.mustangandfords.com/howto/30640/
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