MUST READ. leak problem [Archive]

celenztah

12-04-2006, 02:34 PM

Brute03

12-05-2006, 01:21 AM

praztek

12-05-2006, 01:29 AM

Subscribed, wanted to stay up to speed on this.

idamaster

12-05-2006, 10:39 PM

I thought I had this problem in my 07, but it was ill founded. My car has been dry since I've had it. The original problem with my 07 had to do with my interior treatment and the water people tracked into my car.

The dealer said the smell problem I had was with the clutch. My first 500 miles on the car were literally ALL highway in 5th. When I came back to Detroit, I did a whole lot of shifting for an evening in the rain. The next morning, the smell was not mildew from water, but hot clutch in oil :-)

pxdig

12-05-2006, 11:04 PM

guys, I live in Phoenix, AZ, where it rains once a year. NO, really.

Am I to understand that it only happens when parking downhill?? do I need to worry about this??

PXDIG

celenztah

12-07-2006, 06:46 PM

I've had my carpet get wet from just driving through high water and through heavy rain (on perfectly level roads) in addition to having it get wet while parked several hours in moderate rain on a slight incline (with nose up).

And - as promised - here is the quote from my service receipt pertaining to the warrantly leak work I just had done Nov. 29th:

WIRING HARNESS BOOT MISALLIGNED AT BULK HEAD ALLOWING WATER INTRUSION UNDER HEAVY RAIN RE-SEAT BOOT DRY FLOOR AND CARPETING AND RETEST OK

Welper, that's it folks. I still have not tested it for myself. I am fairly busy much of the time and so I may not run water on it for hours..... but I very interested in test driving it through some puddles and heavy rain. If it does rain next when I am at home, I will go move the car from the garage out into the rain on the same slight incline that produced water in the carpet before. Once again, I'll post the results as soon as I know. For right now, I am only "hoping" that was really the fix. Fingers crossed!

celenztah

12-10-2006, 02:59 PM

12/10/2006

First steady rain conditions since my dealership's leak "fix" of re-alligning the wiring harness boot and here are the official results:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v290/celenztah/2006%20Mustang/leakwet.jpg

I was in a moderate, steady rain long enough to eat breakfast and shop at Sam's. No major puddles, no parking on an incline even.

Needless to say I am PO'd! I'm going to show up at the dealership at 7am tomorrow morning and rent a car. They had better be prepared to pay for this car rental considering my service rep clearly stated last time "I am NOT going to let your car leave here with a leak in it".

This is really a hassle and is making me sick. I've gone from love this car to disappointed with this car to love this car to disappointed to love and now back to disappointed. If the leak gets fixed, I'll love it again provided nothing else rears its ugly head. I've had it long enough to work out most the kinks (including the fuel pump TSB), so maybe this is the last of the BS??? Please?????!!!!

stangster06

12-11-2006, 05:14 PM

Wow! Really sorry to hear that. Please post what happens at the dealer when you take it back. (I thought (hoped) it would be fixed). Good luck!

jkstang

12-11-2006, 05:33 PM

I have/had the leak too. '06 GT. After reading the other thread I went out and put my hand
down the fuse panel hole. Yep, moist carpet and padding. I made mental note to call the dealer
and make an appointment. Spaced it off. I was driving down the highway with my daughter riding shotgun during one our heavy rains...live in Oregon. She put her foot up under the dash in that area and her foot was soaked. Then she noticed the water coming in so much it was dripping on her.
So, I reached up under the dash and water was everywhere.
I called the dealer and they got me in immediately. They were very appologetic and felt bad that such a new car had that bad of a leak.
They removed the interior and did a bunch of tests. They found that water was coming in at the two places mention in this thread, from the gromet in the firewall that the seam between the fender and floorboard.
BUT! they found that the firewall leak was due to the molding at the base of the windshield coming unglued.
That would be the molding at the base of the windshield that also wraps around the wiper posts. They had my car for a week. Ford didn't have the part, they had to wait for it from the manufacture.
So far...no leaks. During that week, they yanked the carpet and let it dryout in the shop before they put it back.
I also got a wash and wax for the trouble.

chidrock

12-11-2006, 06:35 PM

Just letting you guys know that I thought my '06 GT was okay with this until Thanksgiving. It poured here in NJ and when I got home from a long car trip I found that the floor of my passenger side IN THE BACK was soaking wet. I didn't have any wetness up front. I took it to the dealer and they said that they fixed it, but I haven't driven in any heavy rain since to test it. I did buy one of those odor absorber things and put it in the back on the floor to try to get rid of the smell. (my dealer didn't bother with drying the carpet...)

celenztah

12-13-2006, 11:30 AM

Here are the results from my 2nd visit to the same dealership for the leak issue that did not get fixed with the 1st visit (noted a few posts above):

A QCP C/S WATER LEAKING FROM RIGHT FRONT UNDER DASH
CAUSE: 14498 77 WATER TEST VEHICLE NECESSARY TO REPLACE PASS FRT DOOR OPENING WEATHERSTRIP (20708) FOR COLLAP SED SEAL AT MIRROR MOUNTING MOUNTING LOCATION

20708A WEATHERSTRIP - FRONT DOOR OPENING - REPLACE
69000A DOOR AND WINDOW - WIND NOISE/WATER LEAKS - DIAGNOSIS
1 4R3Z*6320708*AA WEATHERSTRIP ASY - DOOR OPENIN

14498 77 WATER TEST VEHICLE NECESSARY TO REPLACE PASS FRT DOOR OPENING WEATHERSTRIP (20708) FOR COLLAP SED SEAL AT MIRROR MOUNTING LOCATION R AND RT FRT DOOR TRIM PANEL TO ACCESS ADJUST DOOR GLASS UP FOR MISALLIGNMENT DRY CARPETING AND RETEST NO FURTHER LEAKS FOUND AT PASS KICKPANEL AREA AT THIS TIME

I drove the car home from the dealership in a relatively strong rain, but for only about 20 minutes. I also hit every puddle I could find. There only the tiniest bit of dampness if I stuck my finger just under the where the carpet meets the kickpanel. I think that that moisture may have just been left over from when they dried out my carpet after testing, etc. I need to have the car in the rain for a couple of hours or so .... and a couple of times or so to truly conclude that this particular service visit actually fixed the leak. I'll post back here when that happens.

So far, so good.... but inconclusive until further reality testing provided by mother nature.

As a consolation, Ford did pay for my rental car this time.

RedfireLemon

12-18-2006, 11:17 PM

I own a 2005 Redfire Convertible that is one of these leaking messes. I have been fighting with Ford for over 4 months now.

The electrical system is shot. I get "check charging system" errors, the radio only works in park and neutral if I drive in the rain or wash the car, the dashboard occasionally goes dead and the mildew smell in the car is so bad that I can't even stand to drive it. The carpet was replaced, but the padding was not. Opening the windows only resorts in mildew smell being circulated around the car. Using the heater is completely out of the question and the stink becomes completely unbearable. When it warms up enough I get condensation on the inside of the car and some sort of white film over the front windshield.

The dealership that "attempted" to fix the car 5+ times has told me there is no smell in the car. None of their sales people will even go near the car as it stinks so badly. (I did not return the car to the dealership where I bought it as the electrical system was questionable enough that I doubted it would make it to where I bought it. Also the dealership where I bought it has a reputation for the worst service in the area.) The technicians claim that I keep dumping water in the car to just to get out of paying for it. The service manager told me that if I didn't like the way they were repairing my car I should just give up and Lemon Law the car. However, if I bought a new Mustang, they would give me $14,000 in trade. They could only give me that because my car would have to be wholesaled out because of the mildew and water damage. Yet they are the ones that claim there is no water damage or smell in the car. Though they do keep reporting to FCC that the car is fine and they can't find anything wrong with it.

In sheer disgust I attempted to trade the car in 3 different Ford dealerships and 2 Chrysler dealersships. The smell is so bad that they suspect major water damage and will not even take the car in trade. (Ford claims that there is nothing wrong with my car, but if that's true, why won't any of their own dealerships take it as a trade in ? Makes you wonder.......)

Ford Customer Care claims that I am the ONLY one with this issue. I have requested to have the car replaced and was told that "we just don't give cars away". Ford Customer Care has phone tag down to an art and manages to only leave me phone messages even though I have my cell phone with me 24/7.

I have given up even attempting to deal with Ford at all. I have had to resort to the BBB and NYS Attorney General's Office. Ford couldn't care less if you get stuck with one of these cars with a leak. As I was told by the dealership where I bought the car, you bought it, took it somewhere else to have it fixed. Now it's YOUR problem. (That was just before they called the police on me for trepassing and impeding on their right to do business.)

TinPony

12-19-2006, 12:02 AM

Keep us posted... we all know from the forum response that this is NOT, I repeat NOT an isolated problem

RedfireLemon

01-03-2007, 02:50 AM

My leak is EXACTLY like what you show in the pic. If you pull off the kick panel and sill plate cover you will get one hell of a nasty surprise. The Smart Junction Box will be dripping with water and the wiring harness next to it will be also dripping.

Ford's new way to fix this problem : They offer you ONE car payment to get you to shut up about the problem. I still take the car in and get the same thing from the dealership, "Ford says we have done all we have to do ". Don't let up !!!! BBB and Lemon Law are your only way out. Ford will NOT help you in anyway.

celenztah

01-03-2007, 10:49 AM

OK.... 2nd fix at dealership did not stop my leak. See quote below for results of 3rd visit.

Moderators - sorry about posting across multiple threads on this. I know this one is linked as an "info" thread, but the other large one on the topic became active and I wound up follow it for a bit.

ORIGINAL: celenztah

Welper... 3rd "fix" by dealership completed. I dropped it off this morning and then called Ford Customer Care (hence the speedier than usual repair job - in and out in the same day!).

My service advisor stated the following (but I did not take notes and am still fuzzy on the details):
She had 3 techs focus on the issue. They tried water soaking methods other than their usual pressure test. In this case, it revealed what they all 3 agreed upon as the real source of the water. It actually is coming from the door because of a "weathersheet" that needed to be secured (not sure if that meant it was loose, misalligned or completely un-secured). The door was filling up with water instead of draining out properly. Once it reached capacity, it spilled over (I'm assuming through the door hinge opening) and voila... wound up inside behind the kick panel and onto the carpet. Now that the "weathersheet" has been secured, all 3 techs felt fully confident that the issue will no longer occur since water will now be correctly diverted from within thedoor as it is supposed to be.

This actually makes sense to me and comse close to an earlier post in this (or the other major water leak thread) where someone's dealership told him that it was a clogged drain plug. But that fix did not work.... because perhaps it was the "weathersheet" diverting water to an area within the door that should never see water.

My service advisor said that this Mustang model is built in many ways differently than much of what they have ever seen or dealt with. It seems like a learning experience for all.

BUT.... LOL.... I won't be convinced, once again, until mother nature provides me with 2 - 3 excellent down pours of rain that would ordinarily duplicate the leak. Problem solved???? Maybe..... All I'm telling you is what happened today. I will tell you when the next tomorrow brings some serious natural testing rain conditions though. I personally have good reason to be skeptical...... 'ya reckon??? hehe

But doggone it, I sure as heck hope this was it! My new tires just came in today and I'm having them installed tomorrow. I think there is rain in the forecast for this weekend.

I've come this far with you folks; I will certainly keep you posted as natural tests determine if "this" fix...... fixed the leak. [:@];)[8D]:D:)[X(][>:]:eek:

undecided.steve

01-03-2007, 12:08 PM

ORIGINAL: clayton doucette

:eek:Hi all,I too HAD this water leak problem on my 05 mustang.So i went looking for the origin of the problem instead of relying on the dealer (not having any luck finding it.I found it after removing the trim pieces from the passanger side(they just pull off)and peeling back the carpet and turning up the foam underlay to reveal the floof.right where the floor meets the side panel there is a seam that is covered with a ehite sealer of somekind.BUT if you look close you will see a spot where the sealer missed on the side panel.THATS where your water is coming from.and you can only see it leak if you open the hood and pour water down the wiper vent under the hood.It leaksthen,anyway i put silacone all around the little hole and stuffed as much IN the hole and left it to dry for a couple days (along with the carpet and foam insulation.And poured gallons of water down these vents and NO water leak.I hope this helps all of you with the water problem.

Bingo!!
My 2003 GT vert had a similar problem only for me it's the seam where the REAR floorpan meets the outside frame of the car. I pulled up the plastic pieces and carpet and poured water around the front of the car (car on a hill facing up) and the water ran through the rocker panels/frame but instead of exiting at the rear drain holes like it was supposed to, it leaked right through the seam and into the rear passenger floorpan.

Tons of silicon fixed it.

The problem the 05+ guys seem to be having sounds very similar.
At least on my car, Ford uses a sealent on the welded seams and it not only hardens rock hard, it is used sparingly.
One missed spot, or a crack in the sealent, will mean a possible leak.
It may LOOK ok, but observe it when water is poured on the car.

If the grommet does not fix it, I would look at the seams.

It's nice to see Ford is consistant in their problems [8D]

(P.S) see my other posts in the other Leak threads for more details or just PM me.

edgespeeder06

01-03-2007, 04:08 PM

Thats so weird, i park uphill, well my driveway is uphill so i have no choice, i havent actually noticed any water there, i have an 05 V6 produced in dec05 but bought in March 06

ORIGINAL: MdnytRider

Ok, I'm hopeful I may have sealed the water leak. I removed the passenger side inner wheel well behind the tire. There is a pair of grommets there where a big wiring harness and the antenna come through the firewall (see the picture). Yesterday, I laid inside the car while the wife sprayed water on the right side of the car and it looked like water was coming in there. So today I spread clear silicone around the grommets, waited for it to cure and sprayed water on it again. So far, no water inside.

I'm curious though, how many people have noticed this problem only when parking their car facing uphill. I think it would lend some credence to my theory if it didn't happen when the car was parked facing downhill, as the water would run away from the grommet on the firewall.

Also, if anyone else decides to try this method, let me know if it works for you too.

local://upfiles/48028/D4415FF5258A490FB43B89831CA2BB86.jpg

Stone

01-03-2007, 04:54 PM

Geez I thought getting my gas tank replaced was a bother I am not sure if I even want to go check since I can't say I have noticed a smell in my car but then again I am/was a smokerso it may cover the smell ahh well I hope someone finds a nice simple fix to help everyone out since this seems to be an expanding issue.

Vicstang

01-06-2007, 03:56 AM

Hello, everybody, glad to be here! This is my first post. I'd like to thank all you guys/gals for posting your information and experiences. It means a lot to me, as my car is brand new, and I don't want to wait to warterproof it. Gotta do something quick before it mildews.

I just picked up a new 2006 Premium GT, and I'm very happy with it. Its a far better car than I expected, in MANY, many ways. Overall, I think its better designed and built than my son's 99 Cobra. Right after I bought it, I found this thread on the net. Next thing that happened was, I got caught in some rain. I didn't even have a chance to implement some things I learned here in this thread! It wasn'ta really heavy rain, and certainly not nearly enough to fill up the doors to the hinge level. When I got home, I checked the carpet near the access door, and sure enough, it was wet. Brand new car, right off the showroom floor, just two days earlier. Didn't even have 300 miles on it yet.

I'm not totally dissapointed, just concerned. Every car has problems, even very expensive cars. Part of being a car fanatic is being willing to identify and correct what the factory could not, or would not fix. I'm not saying that is ok, but thats what fanatics do. Some guys know all the ins-and-outs of ridding an old Jag of its latent faults, etc, thats what car nuts are like. We find the idiosyncrasies, and attack them pre-emptively. I'm going to check/silicone all the areas that have been mentioned-
1. The wiring penetrations through the firewall, just inside the passenger wheel well cover
2. The lower windshield edge seal, where the weatherproofing also wraps around the wiper posts
3. The seam between the passenger floorboard, and the fender, or outboard edge of the car.
4. I don't want to take my door apart yet, but if the above doesn't adress the issue, then a door-ectomy seems like the next step.

There have been several possible water entry points identified, both by owners and dealers, and it is possible that there are multiple areas that can potentially be the cause. But from reading this thread, it seems this always happens on the passenger side, so if it was strictly a door seal problem, or mirror-to-door seal issue, or a plugged drain issue, it should show up on both sides of the car, right? But no one reports driver's side water, so its probably something specific to just the passenger side only, like the grommet. The floor seam has been found to be leaking in more than one car. Why wouldn't that type of floor seam leak occur on either side? Maybe some process on that side is different, done by a different machine, or done by old one-eyedCharlie, who should have retired years ago? Maybe he just does the seals on the passenger side.

I called Power Ford in Tustin, CA, and the service advisortold me that he has NEVER SEEN THE PROBLEM, EVER! <cough, cough, wheeze, COUGH, cough, COUGH> He told me I am the first one! Hah hah hah, very funny!

Maybe a lot of people don't even know their carpet is wet down there. I wouldn't even have known to check it down there after a rain, if I hadn't stumbled accross this thread. My guess is, ALL S197s are affected in one way or another, but just some people haven't noticed it, or maybe some Stangs accidently got sealed correctly from the factory.

And now we hear that Ford offers ONE payment credit to shut up about it? Its clear that taking the problem to the "stealership" is a complete waste of time, as they must be taking special Ford "quiet pills", and they will wear you out with endless service visits until you either croak, or dry up and blow away. This is too bad, becauseIlove my country, and I still love the historical, all-American, Ford Motor Co. I really want them to succeed, and feel sorry for them as they teter on the brink of extinction. (In related news, I heard Mually recently canceled his Lexus order) Toyota is heading for #1, and Ford is sucking wind, and "taking on water". (Pun intended!) Camrys don't leak, but I don't want a Camry, I want a really great, exciting Mustang that don't leak. I don't want our domestic manufacturers to go bankrupt, and I don't want to have to drive foriegn cars. I'd rather push my domestic, than drive foreign. Evidently, the lost sales from this issue becoming public knowledge is a greater liability $than paying off victims for their silence. Its a numbers game, and we lose. So we fix it ourselves, and forgive them for being stupid liquid engineers, I guess. Thank God for this forum, where we canshare information, and hash out a fix, or several fixes on our own. Information is power, thank God for the internet!

Anyway, thats long enough for a first post.Cheers to all, and havea great 2007!

F-ind
O-ur
R-ain
D-amage!

mail906

01-06-2007, 12:15 PM

ORIGINAL: Vicstang

... When I got home, I checked the carpet near the access door, and sure enough, it was wet. Brand new car, right off the showroom floor, just two days earlier. Didn't even have 300 miles on it yet ...

I agree with many of the point you have made here, however - there is no excuse for a brand new vehicle that is not water tight. Ford needs to spend more time on the fundamentals and less time on engineering the cost out of its products (cheap carpets; razor thin paint coverage on perimeter surfaces; underhood wiring tape that cannot withstand normal operating temperatures, etc.). There is not one person on these forums - myself included - who would not have gladly paid a couple hundred dollars more for a water tightvehicle that hadthese foolish errors corrected at the factory.

Ford needs to step up and acknowledge its product problems. [Where are all the Ford engineers on this one?]

McBudd

01-06-2007, 06:49 PM

After taking it to the dealer TWICE and after arguing with them AGAIN that it was not my sunroof, they finally found that my leak was coming from a bad seal on the passager side of the winshield. Have not had any rain to make sure that they got it right this time.

phunnyguy

01-06-2007, 08:16 PM

i live in calif socal to be exact and am subscribing to this thread...i will check these areas when i get the car cleaned again or when it rains one of the two times a year...even though i livein a fiarly dry climate she is my daily driver and for what ipiad the car shoudl not leak end of story...even if i live where it rains very little......thanks guys

elzebub

01-06-2007, 09:44 PM

I am ready to order my 07 GT, but I must say this issueis starting to give me second thoughts, not because of the leak specificly, most new model cars have a glitch or two, but what is concerning me is Fords inability to fix the problem, or worse yet, their refusing to even say there is a problem, I don't want to plunk down 28 large and then have a car that has a problem that cannot or will not be fixed, I guess I will just hold off for a while, I love the Stang, I 'll just wait and see what happens, there isn't any other car I want, so I'll wait. [&o]

Vicstang

01-08-2007, 01:43 AM

ORIGINAL: MdnytRider

Ok, I'm hopeful I may have sealed the water leak. I removed the passenger side inner wheel well behind the tire. There is a pair of grommets there where a big wiring harness and the antenna come through the firewall (see the picture). Yesterday, I laid inside the car while the wife sprayed water on the right side of the car and it looked like water was coming in there. So today I spread clear silicone around the grommets, waited for it to cure and sprayed water on it again. So far, no water inside.

I'm curious though, how many people have noticed this problem only when parking their car facing uphill. I think it would lend some credence to my theory if it didn't happen when the car was parked facing downhill, as the water would run away from the grommet on the firewall.

Also, if anyone else decides to try this method, let me know if it works for you too.

local://upfiles/48028/D4415FF5258A490FB43B89831CA2BB86.jpg

Now way was I going to wait for a TSB, or take my car back and forth to the stealership so they can jack me around and make me tired and want to give up, with their ineptness. Been there, done that. Not for me. I like my car so much, I decided to try and address this issue myself. My car is still new, and I'm not going to let it get moldy, and spoil my experience of what is otherwide aGREAT car!

MdnytRdr, I tried this very thing, had the wheel well cover removed, interior covers, etc, and had watersprayed atthe firewall, wheelwell, windshield, at various angles. One thing that occured to me as I was doing this is: Cars have so many seams, wall penetrations, etc, that you could probably make ANY car leak if you sprayed water too forcefully, or in a way that would not occur in real world driving.

Its kinda like this: If you "want" water inside the car, you can make it happen with the garden hose, depending on how hard, and where, you apply the water. Its possible to make water enter the car by applying waterupward at odd angles, such as would never happen in real world driving, unless you drove into a lake!When you do your water testing, you need to think about how the wheels kick up the spray, how water drips down off the windshield, how the wind pushes water into the cowl vent slots, etc, and try to imitate those scenarios. Its important not tocome to false conclusions because you are spraying the water directly into a seam, grommet hole, or what-have-you!

Another thing that became apparent, is that we may have S197 leaks from a variety of factors, floor seams, winshield seals, loose grommets, etc. Some people have water dripping on their gem module, but I don't know how many are having this specific area getting wet. There may be more than one way in that an S197 will leak, however, its generally concluded thatmostleaks are from the same source. the common thread seems to be thewiring harness grommetinside the wheel well, am I right? I'm actually not sure, just thought I'd throw that out there to get people talking more. We need to colaborate on this to get it resolved!

In the case of water coming down the windshield, past the winshield cowl, you would end up with water just below the big wiring harness bootin the p/s wheel well, on that shelf-like horizontal surface just below the boot. As has been stated before, there is a drain from the windshield wipers area, seen as a little black down spout just inside the engine bay, on the passenger side. The "down spout" releases its water onto the horizontal "shelf". That is one possible source of water building up on this shelf. Then, inside the wheel well, the tires may kick up spray onto this shelf, that is the possible second source of water here. Sure, thereis a wheelwell cover, that presumably would prevent the tire spray from landing on the shelf, but if you look at its design, it does not seal in any way, not on any of its sides, and its not a far stretch to conclude that it does very little to quell wheel spray. So, there are two possible sources of water building up in this "shelf" area, just below the big wiring harness boot, the wiper area drain, and possible tire spray. I can't say for sure, but I would need a wind tunnel and apply water while the car is in "motion", with little cameras mounted inside the wheelwellto tellfor sure. If the water builds up in this area as the car is moving forward through some rain, it may not drain off the shelf fast enough, and build up just enough to leak through the grommet, and come down on the inside of the car, both underneath and on top of the rubber padding, but below the carpet. Or, maybe it is just coming down the firewall as MdnytRdr says,flowing over the boot, and getting in that way. Either way, its a good idea to eliminate this harness boot and antenna grommet as possible sources.

This boot areais the only place I saw water entering my new 06 coupe while water was being sprayed on it, so I'm starting with that. Note that when the boot area was being sprayed, the water was not actually being sprayed directly at the boot/body connection. I think any boot would leak if you sprayed driectly at it like that, which is not the way water moves around inthere in real world conditions. If anything, it may "pool up" there, as its simultaneously draining, but I don't think water is ever spraying directly at the boot/body connection. Suffice to say, that I got water inside my car from this area, just by spraying the body near the boot, and allowing the water to pool up, on the shelf, which is just below the boot. This may be possible in real world driving conditions, as water is coming through the wiper area drain, cowl vent slots, and possible wheel well tire spray, all building up on the shelf area, or flowing over the boot,before it makes its way to the ground.

In the paint dept of Home Depot, they have this sealant stuff, that supposedly adheres to both rubber and metal.Before I found that stuff, I read a bunch of silicone tube labels. A lot of silicones were said to adhere to various subtances, such as wood, ceramic, metal, asphalt, etc, but no where was rubber ever mentioned. They didn't have any general purpose silicones, just a bunch of specialty ones. I wanted the sealant to stick to the rubber boot as well as the body, sopassed on the specialty silicones, and got this stuff called Loctite "Stik-n-Seal" instead. It comes in 1 oz tubes, $2.88 each. Iusedtwotubes of this stuff to completely coat the boot, grommet, body area, etc. If anyone else decides to do this,youcanpeel the wiring harness boot back out a little bit from the body, and you can see an area where the boot is supposed to seal to the body penetration. I put a bunch of sealant on this surface, shoved it back into the body, and then also all around the outside of the boot/body connection, just for good measure. Don't forget to coat the antenna grommet/cable, as well. Bring some rags, 'cuz it gets all over your hands.

Now I just need a rainstorm, for some real world conditions testing!~

celenztah

01-11-2007, 06:36 PM

Since this is the "officially" linked S197 info thread, I thought I'd post a quote from the other major water leak issue thread into this one. Each of these two major water leak threads appear to be followed by differring groups of folks (understandably so). And I don't mean to further contribute to any confusion due to the existence of two such threads covering the same topic. [8D]

But I believe most of you will agree that this is a very important update.

ORIGINAL: bascho

ORIGINAL: celenztah

ORIGINAL: bascho

GREAT NEWS GUYS!!!! I had a really in-depth conversation with a service engineer at AAI regarding this leak issue and what Ford is doing about it. The plant is fully aware of the issue, has identified the entry point and is finalizing the TSB documentation. I won't go into the solution before it's published, but the entry point is the cowl. There are multiple grommets and seals that will need to be inspected at the dealer, so when the TSB is issued you should get your car into the dealer ASAP. I was not given a publication date, but as soon as I know, you'll know.

The TSB is not finalized.....so the dealers will not know what you're talking about yet. I will supply the TSB # in this thread once it's released.

Thanks to everyone that provided a VIN to me on this concern and to those that have taken their cars into the dealer to be documented.

Sounds very promising. I for one greatly appreciate the update and your interest in this issue! It's been such a discouraging ordeal, but I will truly be happy as a bug in a rug if this gets genuinely fixed.

I haven't reported back here since my 3rd visit to get the leak issue fixed because my only real world test since then proved "inconclusive". It rained very steadily one full night and I moved the car out into the driveway prior to snoozing. I felt no moisture in the morning until I started feeling up a bit higher along the kick panel and found light dampness. Since I did not do a thorough check of how dry the carpet was after getting it back from the dealership, it is "possible" that this dampness was left over from their tests just two days prior. I am due for a heavy rain this Saturday and Sunday, so we'll see.

But NONE of my 3 visits and the subsequent "fixes" dealt directly with the cowl. I sure am looking forward to this TSB coming out soon. I hope we in this forum can all have complimentary access to the full PDF somehow when it comes out. ;)

I will post a PDF of the TSB once it'sissued. That way you guys with leaks can print it off and take it into the dealer.

Vicstang

01-16-2007, 12:08 AM

Great news!

But somehow, I don't think the TSB should be limited to the cowl, because some people have found other entry points, such as floor seams. Ideally, the TSB should cover ALL possible water entry points, not just the cowl. But its still really great to see Ford taking steps. Long live Ford, our truly American manufacturer. (Yes, I know I'm a little nuts!)

celenztah

01-16-2007, 10:32 AM

ORIGINAL: celenztah

OK - Looking pretty good now. After my 3rd dealership visit, I finally had a decent mother nature test. I was able to leave my car exposed to steady, medium strength rain for around 24 hours straight. I even took my car into the dealership for another situation (minor stuff and a free detail - another story not worth going into) in moderately strong rain while driving through numerous splashy puddles along the way..... NO WATER in floorboard! I even had the dealership take a look under the kick panel and NO WATER!

BUT.... I still need to drive in HEAVY rain with standing road water, etc. to be more fully convinced. But as of this update, I am 85%+ convinced that the leak has been stopped.

The unusual part is that my dealership is, in the case of my car anyway, convinced that the leak was largely resultant from the collapsed seal in weatherstripping at the passenger mirror base (that was visit #2 which did not fully stop the leak) and more so, the "weathersheet" that needed securing in the passenger door (visit #3). Visit #1 dealt mainly with re-alligning a grommet in the firewall (this comes closer to the propsed TSB in the works). It is possible that all three "fixes" combined have brought about the positive results I experienced in this recent "test".

I know it seems odd that my leak could result from the door initially, but water can travel in mysterious ways and wind up in places far from the source. We'll see after the next, heavier duty mother nature test.

At least I'll soon enough have a TSB (as will all of us affected) to fall back on should in fact my leak still exist.

For now, though, having been very exposed to weather that certainly would've ordinarily caused water to appear in my passenger side... and finally having no water show.... I am happy again!

I'll still update here once exposed to the heavier duty mother nature test.

Vicstang

01-17-2007, 02:53 AM

Sounds great, Vince. Thanks for posting your experiences, they benefit the whole body of owners, (whether they realise it or not.) :-)

celenztah

01-17-2007, 07:50 PM

Thanks for the Kudos. As all this was beginning for me, I posted some time ago that I wasn't up for being a "guinea pig" in this issue since I had already gone through a few dealership visits on a couple of other issues. BUT.... Once I get past being upset, I get just plum determined... hehe. And to whatever degree it's useful, I was equally determined to share my each and every step knowing how this leak problem affects quite a few and there seemed initially to be no real hope in sight.

It may not be totally nailed down to a science (due in large part to the number of possible leak entry points), but things do indeed seem to have come a long way in just the past couple of months. Glad to be a part of it! I do love this car in spite of the setbacks.

And I will still post back when I go through my next really "strong" mother nature test and while driving through it (rather than simply parked in the rain). I really think my particular leak is fixed..... we'll see. [8D]
ORIGINAL: Vicstang

Sounds great, Vince. Thanks for posting your experiences, they benefit the whole body of owners, (whether they realise it or not.) :-)

celenztah

01-18-2007, 07:31 PM

And yet the saga continues...

ORIGINAL: celenztah

OK.... Still leaking!

Instead of a really heavy rain, I had a light, but constant drizzle all day today. The difference from previous "mother nature" tests is that I drove the car at least two hours or more today in addition to just parking it in the rain. I drove at least 60 miles or more at highway speeds (avg. 70mph) and a fair amount on regular streets and such.

The water I found after all this was still significantly less than previous leaks and I find this encouraging. It "seems" as though of the three "fixes" I have had done thus far, at least some of the entry points have been blocked. I am reasonably sure that my leak, as theorized by others as well, has been a result of multiple entry points.

I've notified my service advisor at the dealership that has been handling this, who in turn will discuss the issue with the director and get back with me. I asked that before I bring it in yet again (for the 4th time on this issues) that they try to confirm that a TSB is in the works and perhaps even extract any information releasable to give them an idea as to how to proceed next.

Vicstang

01-19-2007, 11:28 PM

Wow! The saga continues.....

Hang in there, bro!

Ford is aware of this now, and I'm sure there will be a final solution for you to stay dry, and keep your Stang. Myself, I'm not going to wait for help, I'm diving in and trying different things. ("Stealerships" pizs me off too much. I'd rather notgo if I don't have to)

celenztah

01-24-2007, 09:14 PM

ORIGINAL: celenztah

And NOW.... the moment you've all been waiting for. Well, maybe you haven't been waiting for it and maybe this isn't THE moment. But by gosh, here are the results of my 4th (FOURTH) visit to the dealership and first "real world" test thereafter. Mind you... I still want two more solid real world test before I allow myself to become comfortable that myleak is fixed. That said, it is still difficult to hold back the excitement of my firsttrue "no leak" experience under circumstances that most certainly would've produced the leak. Yes, I've said that nearly exact thing before and so I must resist theexcitement until further testing.

Dealership Service Ticket Info (01/22/07) - Quoting the summary portionas printed:

"16128 WATER LEAK RIGHT FRT FLOOR BOARD GETTING WET WATER LEAK TEST FOUND RIGHT FRT FLOOR BOARD SOAKED. WATER COMING IN FROM RIGHT FRT COWL PANEL PINCH WELD. R&R CENTER CONSOLE ASSEMBLY REMOVE DASH ASSEMBLY TO ACCESS COWL PANEL. RESEAL COWL PANEL. REMOVE RIGHT OUTSIDE COWL PANEL AND INSPECT RETAINING CLIPS FOR LIFTING UP. KNOWN FOUND LIFTING UP. DID RESEAL RIGHT SIDE BODY SEAM AND REMOVE ALL RETAINER CLIPS APPLY SEALER TO BACK SIDE AND REINSTALL INTO COWL PANEL SHEETMETAL REASSEMBLY DASH AND RETEST FOR LEAK NO LEAK FOUND AT THIS TIME. REMOVE WET CARPET DRY CARPET AND FLOOR BOARD INSTALL NEW JUTE PADDING REINSTALL CARPET REINSTALL CARPET REINSTALL CENTER CONSOLE OK AFTER REPAIR. M-TIME FOR JUTE WORK BODY"

And results of my first "real world" test (01/24/07):

Exposed car to moderate, steady rain from 6:30AM to around 2:30PM. Drove at highway speeds in contuing, moderate rain about 80 miles and another 15 miles or so on side streets, stop and go traffice, etc. Whenever parked throughout the day... was uncovered and being rained on. Never saw any visible signs of the leak into the carpet in the passenger side while driving along. Finally, around 2:30PM, I took a deep breath, walked over and opened the passenger side door, bent over and began physically inspecting the exposed area of carpeting where it meets the kick plate just below the little access panel - DRY in all respects. Removed little access panel (to the fuse box or ECM thingy) and thoroughly inspected insideds of plastic (kick plate) and carpeting and padding inside this area.... DRY in all respects.

I was truly impressed. Almost enough to declare that my particular leak is fixed. BUT... need those two more similar, and hopefully even stronger, "real world" tests... and then I will jump for joy!

It seems that with each "repair", the ensuing amoung of water leaking in was less and less until no leak after today's test. Indeed, it would seem at least that my particular leak was/is the result of multiple entry points. I dunno, but I am glad it is (almost) over. [8D][sm=icon_blah.gif][sm=shades.gif][sm=rant.gif]

Stang Girl

01-25-2007, 10:41 PM

I too just discover that I have this problem. I was driving in the rain for about 1 1/2 hours on Sunday. Monday there was so much water you could cup your hands and grab water. I took my car to a local dealer on Monday and my car is still there today. I called Ford and they told me that they were not aware of this problem, same response from the dealer. After discovering this I brought it to the attention of a co-worker whom also has a 05' he checked and also has this problem. I would like it if we all could get together and notify our local news to inform all 05-06-mustang owners that there is a problem. It seems that they’re a lot of owners out there that are not aware of this, I think as Mustang Lovers we owe this to every one that’s driving a Mustang. The only way we can get our problem fixed is to make sure that Ford is aware and what better way to do it? is to fill all dealers with water leak repairs .

Stang Girl

01-25-2007, 10:42 PM

How your car doing?

Stang Girl

01-25-2007, 10:46 PM

How your car?

celenztah

01-25-2007, 10:58 PM

Ya... anyone else who's posted here with the leak... and attempted home repairs or multiple visits to the dealership.... How's your car?

I think mine's fixed after 4 visits. But.. need 2 more solid exposures to rain and driving in it to be 110% satisfied.

I've gone out of my way to both visit the dealership numerous times and post my experiences and results here every step of the way. Much earlierin this (or the "other" leak thread) I posted that I would "not be a guinea pig" but .... I wanted this fixed and found myself determined and committed. I'm a truly busy person, but I love the S197 and really hope that I am helping in some small, but not totally unimportant way.

Please post more of your experiences and results if you have posted here before on the leak issue. C'mon.... you can wiggle those fingers for a couple mins over a keyboard.. eh? [sm=icon_stickpoke.gif][sm=thanx.gif][sm=yeahsmile.gif]

Vicstang

01-30-2007, 02:59 AM

Hey, Stang Girl! and Celenztah!

I've been away for a bit-Glad to hear your Stang is making progress towards being a water tight car, Celenztah. Must feel good.

Would you think I was a puzzy if I don't take mine out on rainy days, until the pending Ford TSB is performed? (I'm getting really anal as I age!) Plus, I just washed and waxed it. Us So Cal boys get really bent out of shape over water spots. I'd rather keep it dry until the TSB comes through, and gets done to my car. 'Till then, I'm driving my faithful F150 on rainy days. On sunny days, I'm enjoying the hell out of the 'Stang! Its a lot of fun to drive, and I'm really enjoying the car. I think Ford did a great job on the S197, water issues aside. Sign me up for the HTT fan club.

The only thing I CAN tell you is, I found no leaks, no wet carpet backing, no moisture at all on the floorboard or "gem" module, after washing the car with a hose. (I had it nose up for washing, and nose down for rinsing) I wasn't really trying to find a leak this time, just washing it normally. The only thing I have done so far is, to seal the wiring harness boot and antenna cable to the firewall. (These possible water entry points can be seen if you remove the p/s wheelwell cover)

'cmon, TSB! I'm in the waiting mode for now.........

celenztah

01-30-2007, 01:03 PM

Vic... I was going to wait for the TSB to release, but my dealership was so close and so determined to seal any and all possible leaks, that I just let them keep trying. The 4th visit "fix" was very similar to some of the proposed TSB approach. But if you haven't started the process of dealership visits on the issue, then by all means stand by until the official TSB releases.

I've had a 2nd "mother nature test" this past weekend. Strong rain, driving in it and parking, etc. for 2-3 hours. Definitely would've caused the leak, but bone DRY! Still want a 3rd, solid test, but it really might be sealed!

Vicstang

01-31-2007, 03:25 AM

Good! Here's hoping.....

mustanglissy

02-19-2007, 02:34 PM

My '06 is leaking in the passenger side as well. They said they found the leak and fixed it. A few weeks later it was worse so they 'fixed' it and replaced the carpeting. It's leaking again and they say thatthey have to fix it 3 times and then have it leak again for the 4th time before an engineer from Ford will come look at it and then they will 'talk' about replacing the car. They said the second leakwas in the firewall behind the engine and the passenger sidedoor. I thinkI'm getting raked thru the coals. I'm going to Ford tonight to talk to the General Manager. Beware a womanhell bent and posessed.

celenztah

02-19-2007, 02:48 PM

Best of luck mustanglissy! Mine took 4 visits to fix. I'm reasonably sure that mine had multiple entry points. I have had 2-3 pretty good "mother nature" test to assure me that it is now finally fixed..... but I am still skeptical until I go through a near torrential rain as a final test.

At any rate, yours (as well as many others) may very well be a case of multiple entry points. If they keep nailing them shut, eventualy they should have them all. Sloppy I know.

What I wonder is.... if there are more than one entry points involved, why does it seem that only one entry point at a time gets discovered and fixed? Why aren't they all seen during the leak testing?

MartyMoose

02-19-2007, 03:26 PM

'07 checking in.

I have not noticed any leaks. It's raining right now and I'll go check in a little while and post.

'07s please post. Thanks.

MartyMoose

02-19-2007, 10:15 PM

Just returned from a 20-mile round trip in the pouring rain and no leaks that I can tell.

mustanglissy

02-25-2007, 12:06 AM

Just picked up my 06 up from the dealer today after the 3rd attempt to fix the water leak on the passenger side. Got it home, 12 miles from dealer, and smoke was pouring out of the engine. Tow truck driver said it looks like the heater coil let go and maybe that is why water is pouring in. To tell you the truth , I know nothing about cars but I know that I've had it up to my antenna with the radio eating my cd and having to get it replaced, three times at the dealer for a huge leak , and now a smoking engine.

06blueovalblueGT

02-25-2007, 11:32 AM

I'm going to watch the Weather Channel and go for a ride,
My '06 is a garage queen but I'll be damned if we should have to go through this.
Florida has "Lemon Laws" or I'll call News 13 "On your side" and take them to
the dealership to interview the service manager.
Big talk when I would rather do it myself.....................

HypromanGT

02-26-2007, 01:09 AM

Just a quick update (I don't dare post on the "SERIOUS..." thread, as I am sure people LOVE browsing through 15 pages) on my leak situation:

Last Friday the carpet got replaced, however, no one at the dealership bothered to replace or dry out the foam/pad piece coming from the cowl while there were in there, so when I got the car back it had nice new carpet, resting on a damp piece of padding. Anyway, after much discussion with the service manager and tech, I finally took it home, as I was assured it would dry out on it's own. Well, Thursday night it rained (not even hard, but a little bit), and guess who's new carpet is wet(ter)? Once agian, I can still see droplets of water coming down the frame, about a foot and a half up from the fuse box. [:@]

That makes 6 times at the dealer (they were also supposed to re-test this time....right) Called a lawyer on Friday...I'm out of Lemon Law territory on mileage (got 20k on it now), but I've still got the Magnuson-Moss Act on my side. Lawyer seems confident...we'll see.

What a PITA.

Bruiser Stang

02-26-2007, 02:11 AM

hey....
i just found a slightly damp carpet, and musty smelling area down in the panel on the passenger side. I saw that foam that was put over the computer bow...is that fords "fix"?
I do drive in heavy rains, and do not know what the extent of the leaks are just yet.
I have an '07 gt

adnlyn

02-26-2007, 12:32 PM

subscribing

HypromanGT

02-27-2007, 10:31 PM

ORIGINAL: Bruiser Stang

hey....
i just found a slightly damp carpet, and musty smelling area down in the panel on the passenger side. I saw that foam that was put over the computer bow...is that fords "fix"?
I do drive in heavy rains, and do not know what the extent of the leaks are just yet.
I have an '07 gt

Uh-oh....is it an early '07? I was under the impression that the '07s after a certain date were not having this problem. Sorry to hear you're having this issue as well :(

Please, please, please go vote here (http://www.mustangforums.com/m_2716008/tm.htm). As you will see in the poll, there's only been 1 person so far with any problems with the '07s after that "magic" date. Once again, I urge everyone to feel behind the passenger access panel in the padding after a rainy day/drive or car wash.

Good luck...you've got a long road ahead of you as far as getting this resolved...

mustanglissy

03-09-2007, 10:18 PM

Update. After the 4th water leak the Engineers from Ford ( I insisted they take a look at it). Here is what they say needed replacing- Verbatim from Invoice
"Cause:11108 CK water leak c-s water running down pass kick panel found water leaking from hole for main wiring harness above junction box pass SI. 69000A Door and Window- wind noise/water leaks. Diagnosis-L
Water leaking from hole for main wiring harness above junction box pass side found where it was leaking from by taking out carpet and taking off right front fender. upon further investigation found water leaking from cowel pin seat had to install new right front cowel pin slots ced seats with clear silicone. reinstalled cowel and water tested again leak had stopped.after water test test drove vehicle and found another area where water was leaking from. found a lot of water running between door and rocker panel and was not draining out. had to order door weather stripping, window weather stripping new pass side cowel and cowel pins, hood padding,weather strip for pass mirror new door panel moisture pad and retainers for pass and driver door installed all new parts and water tested agin no leaks and also road tested. found no leaks after road test. reinstalled all panels carpet and seats. vehicle would only leak if vehicle was moving and when applying brakes. pulled pass door panel off and ck how water was running in behind door panel and to see what else was happening.
Hope this is helpful!!! Keep your fingers crossed!!

Vicstang

03-13-2007, 02:18 AM

Does anybody know if Ford has issued the water leak TSB yet?

kcstangin

03-13-2007, 11:41 AM

Still waiting!

Feng Houzi

03-13-2007, 12:18 PM

Just a warning to everyone... All this "testing" could equate to accidents and the like... I have and 05 GT, manufactured June of 05, I took it for a test drive in torrential rain the other day... I went on the freeway, through residential areas, hit puddles 6 inches deep doing 25+ mph. I even parked it facing uphill fora few hours, no leak. Im still not convinced that I don't have a leak, but i am hoping I am one of the lucky ones (my 06 v6 didnt leak either) Anyways, looking back, i was getting a little crazy on wet roads looking for a problem that may not exist... Just wanted to say be careful whilst testing this problem... id hate to read about someone testing their car on a rainy day and smashing into a light pole or another vehicle... a wet stang is better than a 28k dollar paper weight...

Jays Mustang

03-13-2007, 12:36 PM

No leaks on my 07. And I've been in downpours. They must have done a fix for the 07 year.

mail906

03-13-2007, 12:47 PM

ORIGINAL: mustanglissy

Update. After the 4th water leak the Engineers from Ford ( I insisted they take a look at it). Here is what they say needed replacing- Verbatim from Invoice
"Cause:11108 CK water leak c-s water running down pass kick panel found water leaking from hole for main wiring harness above junction box pass SI. 69000A Door and Window- wind noise/water leaks. Diagnosis-L
Water leaking from hole for main wiring harness above junction box pass side found where it was leaking from by taking out carpet and taking off right front fender. upon further investigation found water leaking from cowel pin seat had to install new right front cowel pin slots ced seats with clear silicone. reinstalled cowel and water tested again leak had stopped.after water test test drove vehicle and found another area where water was leaking from. found a lot of water running between door and rocker panel and was not draining out. had to order door weather stripping, window weather stripping new pass side cowel and cowel pins, hood padding,weather strip for pass mirror new door panel moisture pad and retainers for pass and driver door installed all new parts and water tested agin no leaks and also road tested. found no leaks after road test. reinstalled all panels carpet and seats. vehicle would only leak if vehicle was moving and when applying brakes. pulled pass door panel off and ck how water was running in behind door panel and to see what else was happening.
Hope this is helpful!!! Keep your fingers crossed!!

To think or expect a new vehicle to require all of this work simply to make it watertight isTOTAL B/S. .

I think it also speaks to Ford's delay in putting out a TSB on this. We have now heard time and again that the comprehensive way to fix the problem begins with taking the right front fender off the vehicle (hood first of course). I guessing that all-in, the fix must take 6 to 8 labor hours minimum. That's costly and it is no wonder why Ford has and continues to remain in a state of denial about this.

And oh yeah. Who here believes anyFord dealer can take thehood and right front fender off of your vehicle - fix whatever -and then reassemble the vehicle back to factory condition with no scratches or shortcuts taken? Who believes that? Any of theFord employees / engineers?What a joke.

adnlyn

03-13-2007, 05:08 PM

subscribing again

mustanglissy

03-13-2007, 05:20 PM

No new leaks as of yet. My suggestion, if you have had this fixed numeroustimeslike I have and is still under warranty, is to call Ford and make a complaint. They have kissed my arse since I called them.They had the engineers from the Mustang Plant troubleshoot and it was fixed within a week.I know it is small butthey are reimbursing me one months car payment for my 'troubles'.It's going to rain this week. Wish me luck.:D

sst06vert

03-13-2007, 06:43 PM

brand new car and its a crapshoot!

twokidsnosleep

03-13-2007, 11:46 PM

New to your forum from the Mustang Source site, referred here due to my water leak passenger side..yadda yadda yaddaexactly like everyone else's leak....hmmm sounds like a pattern:eek:
My car is a '07 GT vert build in late July or early August '06(delivered to Vancouver Canada on Aug 26th) We get tons of rain and this is my dailydriver, so she cannot be a garage queen.
I thank all of you for the heads upon this problem...going to the dealer for #1 attempt to fix tomorrow am.
Scott [8D]

sleeper2

03-14-2007, 12:18 AM

I have a 2007 GT deluxe with the same soaked passenger floor padding so many of you describe. (5-speed, built 11/06). It sounds less severe than the 05 and 06's, but it is still there. My dealership is promptly attempting to fix it. My question is slightly different. If the dealership (pre-TSB) can't fix it right the first time, (it's possible!), what do you recommend in the meantime to keep mildew from occuring. Would you remove the padding, and/or carpet altogether, keep it pulled back, spray lysol, what?. No mildew smell yet as my car has less than 500 miles on it. Also, are you guys using clear silicone caulk, or something more specialized? Thanks in advance, this thread is amazingly helpful. Thanks, sleeper2

HypromanGT

03-14-2007, 02:25 AM

Sorry to hear that you guys are in the same boat as the rest of us. :(

PLEASE take the time to go vote here (http://www.mustangforums.com/m_2716008/tm.htm) if you haven't already. It takes two seconds and the model information is most helpful.

twokidsnosleep

03-14-2007, 03:47 AM

Done deal on the poll :)

sleeper2

03-14-2007, 03:38 PM

I'd like to enter my car in the "leak poll" hyproman, but I can't get it to work, is there a click-on somewhere that I'm missing? Thanks, Sleeper2

Buckshot Barry

03-14-2007, 06:50 PM

ORIGINAL: sleeper2

I'd like to enter my car in the "leak poll" hyproman, but I can't get it to work, is there a click-on somewhere that I'm missing? Thanks, Sleeper2

Are you just getting the results? If so, any possibility someone else from that computer may have taken the poll. You can filter the messages in the top right corner of the message list just to see polls. Are you having this problem with other polls on the board?

Thanks

sleeper2

03-15-2007, 12:41 AM

Yeah, buckshot, all I'm getting is the results of this poll, I'm not sure why. Thanks for trying. Anyway, my dealership (which actually seems pretty attentive) turned my car over to "the water guy" who tested it for "two and a half hours" and came up negative. I've got free carpet padding coming my way because I voiced my displeasure that they didn't dry the padding before putting the carpet back down. After driving the car home I promptly ripped all the front padding out from both sides (at least it's not newly wet) and put towels under the carpet. Although not the normal experience I expected with a new car, at least this way I can keep an eye on things (geez I'm getting fast at taking my car apart) and actually drive the car while I'm waiting for the new padding and the leak TSB. This is definitely MUCH more of a "retro" experience than I ever expected!

sleeper2

03-15-2007, 12:45 AM

Well, that's strange, I checked the poll again and cast my vote. Thanks for your patience!

twokidsnosleep

03-16-2007, 12:58 AM

ORIGINAL: sleeper2

Yeah, buckshot, all I'm getting is the results of this poll, I'm not sure why. Thanks for trying. Anyway, my dealership (which actually seems pretty attentive) turned my car over to "the water guy" who tested it for "two and a half hours" and came up negative. I've got free carpet padding coming my way because I voiced my displeasure that they didn't dry the padding before putting the carpet back down. After driving the car home I promptly ripped all the front padding out from both sides (at least it's not newly wet) and put towels under the carpet. Although not the normal experience I expected with a new car, at least this way I can keep an eye on things (geez I'm getting fast at taking my car apart) and actually drive the car while I'm waiting for the new padding and the leak TSB. This is definitely MUCH more of a "retro" experience than I ever expected!

How much carpeting did you rip up?? Just the passenger foot area??Take any lastic moulding off??
I don't trust theguys at the dealership loooking after my car...I had the carpet half taken up to dry things out...they water tested and soaked the rest of the carpet all the way back to the rear footwells. Still haven't found the leaks source. Service guy already said they wouldn't replace the insulation and I have no car until Monday next week...and no loaner. I am loving Ford service right now[:@]

squeek12

03-16-2007, 01:29 AM

Dayum, I've got it too. To go along with my defective fuel pump, mysterious drop in idle after feul up, and blown door speaker. My car smells like crap, and almost stalls when I start it after filling up, but it's got 300hp! I can't imagine how fast it will be after rust eats hundreds of pounds of metal off of it.

2006 GT. Bought it in August of 2006, 20K miles already. My only hope is to run the wheels off of it before it falls completely apart.

I love my mustang, so is there any hope of getting this thing fixed? This is so frustrating. I don't have time to be without a car for days and days.

adnlyn

03-16-2007, 10:38 AM

I love my mustang, so is there any hope of getting this thing fixed? This is so frustrating. I don't have time to be without a car for days and days.

they had mine for 6 1/2 weeks before they found and fixed the problem.

adam

sleeper2

03-16-2007, 03:32 PM

Answer for Twokids: I took the left and right sillpieces and the left and righttrim piecesoff. (the left piece is the one around the hood lever, the right piece is the one with the access panel everyone talks about.) Then I cut the carpet in the middle (carefully, there are wire harnesses to avoid ) in the hidden area in the very front under the dash. This cut is about three inches long, is out of sight and allows me to peel the left and right carpeting back (move the seats all the way back.) Then I cut (with shielded shears, not a knife) and ripped out any damp padding I found. This allowed me to get things bone dry, and keep an eye on things. In addition to towels, I put down some heat underlayment to keep the carpet around the transmission hump from getting too hot. Luckily, everything's been dry since then. I haven't had time to do the rear carpeting or trunk yet.

Question for adnlyn: did they specifically say what the problem was? Can you describe it?

twokidsnosleep

03-17-2007, 11:18 PM

Got the call at noon car done early, so I go after work. Read entire service blurd about their findings and what they fixed...plenum leak gromets, poor seals, hung up carpets to dry, heater used all night to dry. Do you see where this is going yet???

I open the door and the mats are dirty, car smells musty. Gotta get kids home so I leave. At home, I find my rear quaterpanel deeply scratched and very smelly mats. I rip up the passenger mat and it is f'ing SOAKING wet. I did this infront of the service rep as I went back to show scratch, dirt and smell. It is wetter than when I dropped it off (as I dried it out).
I lost it and had to leave I was so mad. Called GM and will talk again Monday when I have settled down. This is ridiculous.http://forums.bradbarnett.net/images/smilies/nonono.gif http://forums.bradbarnett.net/images/smilies/banghead.gif http://forums.bradbarnett.net/images/smilies/bat.gif

doode

03-18-2007, 03:56 AM

ORIGINAL: twokidsnosleep

Got the call at noon car done early, so I go after work. Read entire service blurd about their findings and what they fixed...plenum leak gromets, poor seals, hung up carpets to dry, heater used all night to dry. Do you see where this is going yet???

I open the door and the mats are dirty, car smells musty. Gotta get kids home so I leave. At home, I find my rear quaterpanel deeply scratched and very smelly mats. I rip up the passenger mat and it is f'ing SOAKING wet. I did this infront of the service rep as I went back to show scratch, dirt and smell. It is wetter than when I dropped it off (as I dried it out).
I lost it and had to leave I was so mad. Called GM and will talk again Monday when I have settled down. This is ridiculous.http://forums.bradbarnett.net/images/smilies/nonono.gif http://forums.bradbarnett.net/images/smilies/banghead.gif http://forums.bradbarnett.net/images/smilies/bat.gif

i live in Vancouver as well.
If you dont mind me asking, which dealership you take it to?
Ive had warranty work (minus the water leak) done on my car at Coastal Ford in Burnaby and they are pretty good.

mustanglissy

03-19-2007, 10:05 PM

Update. Passenger side not leaking!!!! YAY. But now the drivers side is wet. Not soaking like the passenger side but wet nonetheless. I will give it one more rain storm. If it is wet again then MustangLissy getsout of her lease and goes to Toyota. [sm=goodidea.gif]

Bruiser Stang

03-21-2007, 09:19 PM

I called ford, and they gave me a line of horse****.....they told me that by fixing the leak they are going above and beyond the call of duty for me....what scumbags!
three times in the dealership....well, one long time...I never even got it back, and they kept having to fix it, yand me finding new problems.
well, I have it back now....I hope it stays dry. Now I hear the drivers side is capable of possible wetness too??!!! UNBELIEVABLE!!!
I'm just pissed off with a company that produced an otherwise awesome car. I do love my car.

twokidsnosleep

03-22-2007, 01:29 AM

ORIGINAL: Bruiser Stang

I called ford, and they gave me a line of horse****.....they told me that by fixing the leak they are going above and beyond the call of duty for me....what scumbags!
three times in the dealership....well, one long time...I never even got it back, and they kept having to fix it, yand me finding new problems.
well, I have it back now....I hope it stays dry. Now I hear the drivers side is capable of possible wetness too??!!! UNBELIEVABLE!!!
I'm just pissed off with a company that produced an otherwise awesome car. I do love my car.

Oh that is rich. I think we drive the same leaky boats. I am going to try to keep her garaged and avoid rain....if that is humanly possible in Vancouver[:@]

TCStang05

04-20-2007, 01:23 AM

Mdnytrider, I park my car (05 GT)on a pretty steep incline (facing uphill), yet I havent noticed any water anywhere. I am located on the Gulf Coast south of Houston and we see quite a bit of rain here. My mother-in-laws Focus was pretty bad about letting water in, but still no problems detected in the Mustang.

PullMeOverRed05

04-20-2007, 10:49 AM

Add me in for return trip #2. Living in NJ my car had to sit through the Nor'easter we had here least week. My dealer subs their leak problems out so they have a guy come in on Friday's to handle the leaks. Needless to say, it sat all week with the standing water. When I dropped it off this morning you could still cup the water up with your hands. Needless to say the first conversation I had was about the carpet and underlayment replaced AFTER they finally fix the leak.

Jujudoll

04-20-2007, 02:25 PM

I'm kinda freaked now. I was driving while it was raining the other day, and I had a friend in the passenger seat. She said she felt a drop on her foot. Then she felt the mat and it was a bit damp. Now that I think about it I have noticed a bit of a smell after it had rained. My car is an '05 GT and I have almost 33,000 miles on it. I guess I better call the dealership now to see what can be done, considering the factory warranty is up in 3,000 miles!!!

jmk3

04-20-2007, 07:02 PM

Mine finally leaked after the 7" noreaster last weekend. Not too bad just damp padding. I had to pull off kick panel to tell is was damp. I think I found my problem as others have found the same. I removed the cowl panel on passenger side & there are about 4 recessed plastic pieces that the cowl panel latches into. The cheap gasket on one looked out of place so I pulled one out & the entire area inside was full of water. Those clips don't hold enough tension on the gasket to make a seal. there are also 4 on the drivers side so thats 8 places for water to seap in. Now the water works its way arount to the side & drops down onto the dreader junction box. I removed the wipers & other cowl cover & threw out all 8 of those gaskets & reinstalled the clips with some good sealer I have that is for camper seams & such. I am convinced that is the problem as I have heard others describe the water sloshing back & forth when they drive. The problem may have been worsened cause some leaves were blocking the little hole in the cowl panel causing it to fill up & run backwards. Next time you have the leak pop one of those out & look inside. Others have mentioned sealing the seam at the A pillar but I think they are sealing the water in & not solving the problem.

I wanted to add that when this happened my car was not driven, it was parked in the rain. People that have issues with driving in rain may or may not have this problem. I used a product called Permanent sealer by a company called Ruscoe, comes in clear & white I used clear.

hammeron

04-20-2007, 07:18 PM

great info, much appreciated.

ORIGINAL: jmk3

Mine finally leaked after the 7" noreaster last weekend. Not too bad just damp padding. I had to pull off kick panel to tell is was damp. I think I found my problem as others have found the same. I removed the cowl panel on passenger side & there are about 4 recessed plastic pieces that the cowl panel latches into. The cheap gasket on one looked out of place so I pulled one out & the entire area inside was full of water. Those clips don't hold enough tension on the gasket to make a seal. there are also 4 on the drivers side so thats 8 places for water to seap in. Now the water works its way arount to the side & drops down onto the dreader junction box. I removed the wipers & other cowl cover & threw out all 8 of those gaskets & reinstalled the clips with some good sealer I have that is for camper seams & such. I am convinced that is the problem as I have heard others describe the water sloshing back & forth when they drive. The problem may have been worsened cause some leaves were blocking the little hole in the cowl panel causing it to fill up & run backwards. Next time you have the leak pop one of those out & look inside. Others have mentioned sealing the seam at the A pillar but I think they are sealing the water in & not solving the problem.

sst06vert

04-20-2007, 07:29 PM

ORIGINAL: jmk3

Mine finally leaked after the 7" noreaster last weekend. Not too bad just damp padding. I had to pull off kick panel to tell is was damp. I think I found my problem as others have found the same. I removed the cowl panel on passenger side & there are about 4 recessed plastic pieces that the cowl panel latches into. The cheap gasket on one looked out of place so I pulled one out & the entire area inside was full of water. Those clips don't hold enough tension on the gasket to make a seal. there are also 4 on the drivers side so thats 8 places for water to seap in. Now the water works its way arount to the side & drops down onto the dreader junction box. I removed the wipers & other cowl cover & threw out all 8 of those gaskets & reinstalled the clips with some good sealer I have that is for camper seams & such. I am convinced that is the problem as I have heard others describe the water sloshing back & forth when they drive. The problem may have been worsened cause some leaves were blocking the little hole in the cowl panel causing it to fill up & run backwards. Next time you have the leak pop one of those out & look inside. Others have mentioned sealing the seam at the A pillar but I think they are sealing the water in & not solving the problem.

Can you give us the name of the sealer you use. Any chance you can include a picture? thanks Its raining here now and left my car in the rain.

SkullE404

04-20-2007, 09:45 PM

Mine seems to be leaking ONLY when i get a high pressure water jet under the front passenger area tire. Happens when i choose the underbody wash at the touchless carwash. Drove it around for an hour and a half during a rain storm and had nothing Untill i drove it thru a moderately deep puddle. After the puddle it showed up within 30 seconds on the paper towel i had on the floor.

It's going in on tuesday.

2005StangGT

05-02-2007, 12:33 PM

Took mine in last week and the invoice says "sealed open seam between firewall and passenger side kick panel"It was covered under warrenty.Taking it through the car wash today and crossing my fingers....

twokidsnosleep

05-03-2007, 02:03 AM

Well myvert is going back for water leak check. The passenger floomats are ok, but the passenger door and door sill are always wet. It seems like the door is full of water, drips on opening and drips onto the sill. Anyone have something similar???

Scott [:@]

superslow

05-03-2007, 05:23 AM

good thing i read this. thanx for posting it again. i have a kinda musty smeel that is getting worse. this is probably the problem. i will check it out. thanx a bunch!!!!!!!!

2005StangGT

05-03-2007, 08:59 AM

Took mine through the touchless wash yesterday on the way home from work....appears to be fixed!

mail906

05-03-2007, 10:51 AM

ORIGINAL: superslow
good thing i read this. thanx for posting it again. i have a kinda musty smeel that is getting worse. this is probably the problem. i will check it out. thanx a bunch!!!!!!!!

This is really the sad aftermath of all of this. Based on the number of owners here who have a water leak, theremust be plenty of other owners out there who do not know that their vehicle leaks. Possibly they don't pay close attention to their car, or readforums like this. [If you know someone who has a SN197, spread the word andmake sure that they are at leastaware of the potential problem.]

And where's Ford on all of this? Wasn't it before Christmas 2006 that a TSB was supposedly in the works?

adnlyn

05-03-2007, 11:01 AM

you know what really sux. I got rid of my 05 due to this problem and got an 07 vert. Now that is leaking in to the trunk and is in the shop today for the 3rd time. 4 times in 18k miles and i can start lemmon law procedures. I just cant take this crap from ford anymore. If i get out of this car i really dont think i will get another one.

adam

celenztah

05-03-2007, 11:59 AM

I've not posted on this in a while, but since I've been quite outspoken about it and have kept everyone posted on my experience.....

After all my dealership fixes for this (I think I went 4 times - each covering a different water entry point it seems) and feeling moderately confident that the leak was fixed finally, I recently had the extra heavy duty downpour to really test it out.

I moved my car out from the garage into the driveway to catch a seriously nasty thunderstorm overnight.... more than enough to leak without driving... more than enough to fill the door so that driving it would cause splashing resulting in leak..... I drove the car the following morning a good 30 miles or more in continuing (but moderate by now) rain... and still no leak.

I should be totally convinced now that my leak has been repaired, but because of the excessive experience associated with all this..... I guess I will always have a touch of weariness. I can enjoy the car much better now for sure, but there will always be a bit of sour after taste from not only my experiences with the leak, but from seeing so much evidence in this forum alone that there really was some irresponsible manufacturing and poor accountability on Ford's behalf regarding just this issue alone.

I still dig the car, but much like a new Windows operating system release.... On the next re-designed Mustang release that catches my eye, I'll have to resist a purchase and wait to see what bugs exist andif they get ironed out.

hammeron

05-03-2007, 12:55 PM

my personal belief is that ford knows exactly where
water is entering the vehicle.

it must be very labor intensive and that is why ford has not
released a tsb yet. they're trying to write up a procedure, that
even a caveman can do.

hopefully i'm wrong and we will all live happily ever after, with
dry mustangs.....

adnlyn

05-03-2007, 01:00 PM

my personal belief is that ford knows exactly where
water is entering the vehicle.

i agree completely

twokidsnosleep

05-04-2007, 03:47 AM

It is a weird leak. I live in the Vancouver area...it RAINS ALL THE TIME... and it took seven months and two days of longer drives in wicked, pounding rain for my leak to show up. Myvert has only 4,000 km's on it and is a daily driver kept outside in the driveway. The inside of the windshield is alway foggy when I start her up and takes a couple seconds to defog...too much moisture inside is my diagnosis.
I wonder how many Mustangs are leakingon a low level, not enough to soak carpets

mail906

05-04-2007, 11:12 AM

ORIGINAL: hammeron
my personal belief is that ford knows exactly where
water is entering the vehicle.

There is no question about this. It's not rocket science.

ORIGINAL: hammeron
it must be very labor intensive and that is why ford has not
released a tsb yet. they're trying to write up a procedure, that
even a caveman can do.

I agree that the right "fix" is labor instensive. In fact, many have said that "the" leak or "some" leaks cannot be fixed until the right front fender is taken off the vehicle [hood too of course].

My speculation is that the "fix" is so labor intensive [4 to 8 hours per vehicle ???] and costly, that Ford is avoiding the issuance of a TSB on the problem. They're rolling the dice, and in the process screwing the very people who spent their hard earned money on Ford products.

Let's face it. There must be dozens of keen members on this forum alone that could figure out the leak problem given a couple of days in a well equipped garage with a vehicle lift. Ford on the other hand been working on a TSB since Dec. 23rd [as it was posted on this very forum]; and they were certainly aware of leak problems months before that.Who believes that Ford and its fleet of engineers needs to study the problem this long for a TSB? Other than some Ford employees maybe.

americaniron

05-11-2007, 11:20 PM

Well I just got my stang back after 2 weeks. I have to say that the service at my dealership has been wonderful. They kept me informed on the cars progress throughout. I told them about the forum, and the manager even called me in to bring it up on their computer. At first they tried, and tried to reproduce the leak with no success. They didn't try to sluff the car back to me. The manager, and teck knew that it leaked somewhere, and they were bound, and determined to find it. He said that the forum was helpful. They noticed that the firewall-rocker panel seam, and cowl seals came up a lot. They concentrated on those areas, and found that they could get it to leak in those spots. Especially if they rode it on the road after it rained. They sealed the seam, and replaced the cowl with the newer part revision .It got tested in the recent sub tropical storm we had, and seems to be fixed now. The manager realizes the difficulties that the people have been having in getting it fixed the first time. He told me that if it leaks again they will be determined to get to the root of the problem. It's a shame that to many of the service depts for Ford couldn't be that polite, and cooperative. There is supposed to be more rain this weekend, so I'll test it out good.

mail906

05-12-2007, 11:40 AM

ORIGINAL: americaniron
...my dealership...called me in to bring [this forum] up on their computer ...He said that the forum was helpful ...

The communication between Ford and its dealer network is simply amazing.

On this thread alone, here is what we have seen:

#1 Ford and its customer service hotline telling owners that they are not aware of any leak issues with the SN197.

#2 Dealers who told owners thatthey have never been aware of a SN197 that leaked.

#3 Dealers who told ownersthat a TSB was in the works. One member heresaid they saw a copy of it layingon [or in] their vehicle.

#3 And dealers like the one above [recent] that had to be pointed to this fourm or others like it to help them fix or attempt to fix the problem.

It's certainly comforting to know Ford is on top of things.

MalibuJerry350

08-18-2007, 09:57 AM

Well, the ugly "leak issue" finally raised its ugly head last night. While parked in front of a friends house during a horrendous thunderstorm (which resulted in a monsoon downpour for at least 10 minutes) I noticed water dripping from under the dash on the passenger side! The car was actually facing "down hill" at the time, which differs from most of the other situations where other members had their vehicle facing uphill. I was able to pull the rubber mat under the leak and stack some towels under the dripping water. The car has only around 3000 miles left on the warranty and, considering the problems most members have had in having a dealer correct the problem, I've decided to tackle the leak myself. I've looked at the TSB concerning the problem and I'm going to pull the cowl cover off today to take a look. In the 16 1/2 months I've owned the car, this is the first time the problem has occurred. I've driven it in MANY heavy rainstorms before, but always moving. This is the first time it was exposed to such a torrential rainfall for that period of time, while parked in that position. Just wanted to add my GT to the list of "leakers". [:@]

chrisdbassplayer

09-09-2007, 09:01 AM

Hi, I'm new member to mustang forums, Thank you for the info about the leak. We just bought a new 07 convertible and had rain all day yesterday and last night. What a great day to buy a convertible, in the pouring rain, anyway. I found this site this morning. So I went out and looked and touched the area shown in all the photos, at this point it felt dry. But I will keep an eye on it. Are there any other areas of leakage that I should look for? Or can anyone point me to any other important pages of problems or interestI should read?
Thank you!!!

WaterSoakedLemon05

10-11-2007, 10:17 PM

I was one of the first victims of the S197 leak. My car leaked so badly it eventually ended up going to Ford reclamation (or the auction. I believe the auction thing more than the reclamation thing).
If you can't find the leak, try this. Open the hood. On the passenger side fender there is a small drainage hole. This hole is near the hood hinge and the point where the firewall meets the fender. Take a hose and aim it right down into the hole. If your car is anything like mine, the passenger side will fill up in seconds. It was pretty obvious that the car was not seam sealedproperly at all. The BBB inspector also noted thatmore than likely thefloor pan to A pillar seamwas cracked. The seam sealer inside the car had started to pull apart in this areal. It was almost like the whole car was shifting andcausing the sealer to seperate. He didn't pull the fender, but he was more than confident that if he had he most likely would have found a wider separation in this seam area.The BBB claimed the car as a total loss. Ford STILLmaintained that the car never leaked even after the inspector found water running into the car.

FORD WILL NOT HELP YOU IF YOU HAVE A LEAK.

They will do every thing in their power to ignore the whole issue and lie to you about it. I even think the dealers were also told to ignore the issue. Every time I went to one looking for help I was told it wasn't their problem. All I can say is ...Good luck. You're gonna need it. It took me 6mos and 9 days to dump the rolling piece of garbage. The electrical problems thatoccur because of theleak are a whole lot of fun. (ABS failure, TCS failure, dashboard failure, Charging system failure, radio only worked in park and neutral. To make things a little more interesting the car would just shut off) Good thing I never needed the airbags.With all of the electrical problems, I wonder if they would have deployed properly.

lyyroix

12-22-2007, 08:36 AM

Well I can tell you that with the 2008 model, as you might expect, they have not resovled the issue. My GT stays parked outside and we had our first big rain since I had mine. I happened to notice about 1/2 a gallon of water behind the passenger seat. The saet back was forward since one of my kids had ridden in back. Oddly enough that morning I had gotten into the car to take it to the dealer to have a common syncro issue in the 5 speed looked at. The service guy said their peson that worked on the leak was only there on Thursdays. Looks like my battle is about to begin. In this case, ole Lyyroix may have to go if they cant fix it.

**Update**
Got the car back last Thursday (12/27)after the dealer attempted repair the leak. On Friday (12/28) I discovered the carpet was still soaked and took it back. The service dept had not attempted to dry the carpet other than vacuuming out some water. Got the car back on Saturday (12/29) and the carpet was acceptably dry. We had intermittent rain but the leak ahd apparently been stopped. Well last night we had a good rain shower and this AM (12/31) I have found another puddle but smaller this time. I will be taking the car back in on Thursday AM for attempt #2. I checked the SC Lemon Law and here it may begin to apply after the third attempted repair. Oh and the service dept did not observe the gear grinding issue so we we will readdress that too.

2nd puddle

local://upfiles/36049/DCB756A3541C42AFB53F47AEDCBEB779.jpg