Dude, Okay. YOU had a bad experience with your Ford Mustang. One car. I had two Honda cars go bad on me. Both at about 85,000 miles and both automatic transmissions go bad. Traded both on New Fords, 500 and Freestyle, both AWD. Had them for about two years. NO PROBLEMS. Any issues my deal has taken care of.
BTW My 2007 Mustang GT had the water leak issue. Only happened twice when driving in hard rain. Never when was car, or took car to a car wash (I know, I don’t too that anymore). Took a copy of the TSB to the dealer. After 4 hours they could not verify the leak. Spoke the Service Manager with RESPECT, and they order needed parts, and perform the sealing tasks on the TSB. No cost to me. Even gave me a ride home (40 miles) because they needed to keep the car over night for the new parts the arrive.
I believe it is the dealer that you deal with. If you don’t like the one you bought the car from, try a different one.
First repair attempt 17,422 ... yeah I made the mistake of keeping my car in the garage. NY Lemon Law is over at 18,000 mi. Last attempt was 21,800. Though Ford reported to the BBB that it was 24,000. It never had the leaking problem until I left it OUTSIDE. Yeah I'm guilty of taking car of my car. How dare I leave it outside for any period of time. I'm still looking for the place on the sticker price or in the owners manual that says WARNING DO NOT LEAVE CAR OUTSIDE IN THE RAIN. Haven't found it yet. The $9,400 is what I had already paid for the rolling piece of crap. The other $9,400 was what I had to pay in difference of car price and usage. So for using this leaking piece of garbage "to get from A to B" as you put it I paid $9,400. As for my so called obsession for dissing a car company, use this for an example. Say you hired an electrical contractor to work on your house and he burned it down. Are you going to suggest to someone else that they use that electrical contractor ??? Would you stand there and watch as someone you know hired him so that he could do the same thing to him ? If so then the term intellectual really fits you and it isn't a compliment. (It never was in the first place.) Scaring people with the truth about Ford Motor Company ? How dare I tell the truth about a company that screws people over when they make an expensive purchase such as a car. I'd rather keep someone else from ending up the way I did. The car leaked, Ford lied (and continues to lie). Potential customers have the right to know what they might end up with. Look at the number of people coming forward with the leak problem in this forum. How many other people who don't know about this forum are dealing with the same crap that I went through ? Yeah, sure you went through the BBB with a lemon Mercury Mountineer, but how many other people had the exact same problem you did ? I guess you just let it go and screwed the next guy. This is different. There are a lot more than ONE car that was mis manufactured. Judging from the number of people in here complaining about leaks on their Mustangs, there are NUMEROUS leak problems with the car. Based on what you have typed in here, your attitude seems to be screw the next guy. Why should anyone tell them what they might be getting when they buy a Mustang. I figure I'd rather tell them the truth and try to keep them from making the same mistake I did. (If it were only one Mustang, I'd be more prone to stop. But that is far from the case.)
In response to Leoleo : I did try taking the car to other Ford dealerships. Here's what I got from each dealership followed by their recommendation : Magarino Ford ... Sussex NJ ... We won't touch the car because Monroe Ford touched it. "It might hurt our fix it right ratio". (Actual comment from Service Manager). Your car really stinks can you move it outside ? Monroe Ford ... Monroe NY ... (return time 3-5 as the car continued to leak) We can't find a leak in your car. It doesn't smell like anything. The carpet is wet and the radio only works in park and neutral because you keep dumping water in the car to get out of your car payment. (Exact quote from the Service Manager. Meanwhile I had just come from Magarino Ford who had a SM that said my car stunk up his garage.) Route 23 Auto Mall ... Hamburg NJ .... Damn your car is really screwed up, you should sue Ford. You screwed up when you didn't take it back to where you bought it in the first place. Leo Katyes Ford ... Warwick NY ... Wow your car is a mess, Ford says we don't have to fix it though. Monroe Ford is supposed to fix it, they touched it last. Healey Ford ... Middletown NY ... You didn't buy it here, you should take it back to Sunshine Ford. Sunshine Ford ... Newburgh NY ... Monroe Ford touched the car therefore it's no longer our problem. It's not our fault you didn't bring the car back here first. I suggest you get your car off my lot before I call the police as you are impeding on my right to do business and harassing my customers. (GM of Sunshine Ford "Joey C the Mustang King") Ford Customer Customer Care ... (after I called multiple times trying to get someone to fix the car) ... What's your VIN number ? Oh we've already talked to you there is nothing we can do. (* click* as the phone was hung up on me.)
Somewhere in the eight or ninth time I was at a dealership trying to get the car fixed is when I started to get really p*ssed off. Tell me you wouldn't. I wouldn't believe you. As for when I started trying to get the leak problem fixed there was no TSB. I was called a liar by Ford Customer Care and at least 2 of their dealerships. ONE CAR ?????? I think you might want to go back into the other 17 or so pages in the forum and do some counting. I think it's a little more than ONE CAR.
How's that for customer service after you purchase a vehicle ?
P.S. All of us that have had to deal with the water leak are lying and Ford isn't ....
< Message edited by WaterSoakedLemon05 -- 10/11/2007 8:32:58 PM >
I think you are doing the right thing by sharing your [horrible] story with others. If Ford was legitimately concerned about its customers and its reputation, your entire experience would not have happened in the first place.
In fact, the long awaited for TSB on this leak issue [#07-14-6 published 07-03-07] does not address the more difficult aspects of a potential fix. It doesnotmention the notion that a SN197's body seams can be improperly sealed. It only deals with "easy" and "limited cost" measures for a dealer to perform.
So, here's Ford's track record [in a snapshot version]:
1. Customers complain that their SN197 leaks.
2. Ford denies it.
3. Early model SN197 have a white foam sheet protecting the smart box. It is referred to as a "water shield" in Ford service manuals.
4. Ford refuses to admit that SN197's leak.
5. Quietly - after haggling - and with no fanfare, Ford swaps out vehicles for certain customers with the problem.
6. The Ford choir continues to sing consistently: Huh? We've never had anyone complain that their vehicle leaks !!!
7. Ultimately - after months of waiting - Ford issues a TSB. It is all easy fixes and would not fix anyone of the vehicles with serious leak problems that have been vetted on this forum and others.
8. Today - yes today - ask any Ford salesman or Ford serviceman if they have every heard of a SN197 leaking. Their answer is universal - it never happens.
9. The Ford TSB includes model year 2008.
Certainly these are not actions by a well run company or one that really cares about its customers.
Prior to ordering my 07 vert, I read this forums and others. I wanted to learn all I could about the Mustang. Hopefully some would-be buyers will read about WaterSoakedLemon05's experience and others like it. They can make their own decision. But at least they will be better informed.
Ok, so he had a bad time. Mail906, does your Mustang leak? The Ford dealship I when too, knows about the leak, does not deny it. And knows there is a TSB. It is only on a limited number of cars. Watersoakedlemon05 states that one of the dealerships "was going to call the cops on him" How pissed off waxs he? Ford customer care hung up?? Did you call back? Talk to a manger? I'm sure he or she is not telling the whole stroy. If you go into a service department "half cocked" then they are going to be "half cocked" on you.
In my local Mustang club we have at least 15 2005 to 2008 Mustangs. Mine is the only one with the leak. SO that is onlt one out of 15 cars. Most have a 2005 or 2006. Verts and Coupes (sp) Only happenes when driving in a HEAVY down pour. Only happened twice. Dealership could not verify the leak, BUT they still profromed the TSB, they had to keep the car an extra day to get the needed parts.
ORIGINAL: Leoleo ... Mine is the only one with the leak. SO that is onlt one out of 15 cars ...
I think you are ignoring reality here. Although unscientific, 1 out of 15 is 6% plus. And if you read these boards, the running tally on those who responded to the leak survey is closer to 15% of all respondents [again unscientific and again - a huge number]. And the sad fact is that most SN197 owners out there [the ones who do not read Mustang boards all the time] are not even paying attention to see if their vehicle is leaking.
What you need to remember is that this is 2007 not 1927 and we are not talking advanced technology. We are talking about buying a vehicle and expecting that vehicle to be water tight in the passenger cabin. It is not only a reasonable expectation, but it is a "given" for any new car buyer. Ford quality here is simply deplorable.
To answer your question - I have an fully optioned 07 GT vert. I have $35K into it - all 07 options expect auto trans and cloth top; custom dealer installed red/black leather; X plan pricing; including sales tax. The car is a garage queen and driven only with the top down on a warm day. I have accumulated 4,000 miles (approx.) since I took delivery in July 07. I ordered the vehicle.
To date, I have driven in one major rain event since I had no choice. I put the top up before the rain came, and I got the car home and garaged directly after it started raining.
The next day, I had a spot the size of a 3" inch diameter circle directly below my glove box that was drenched - completely soaked for no discernable reason.
So yeah - my car leaks. And here are my choices: live with it [ignore it] recognizing that the car is a warm weather driver only. Or take it to the dealer so they can take it apart and destroy the [indisputable] quality level that a vehicle only has when it is factory fresh.
I don't like either choice for my $35K investment.
Here is what I do know however. When it comes time to buying another vehicle - fun car or otherwise, I am not running back to Ford.
And that is exactly the point WaterSoakedLemon05 is trying to make - and trying to share with any other would-be Ford buyers. And they of course can make their own choices.
And as far as your vehicle is concerned - you should know this. Many of the SN197 vehicle owners who have had serious leak problems have ultimately had to have body seams in their vehicles resealed. Some repairs have actually involved removing the hood and the right front fender of the car to solve the leak issue.
The new TSB does not even address any of this. Thus, it probably makes sense for you to keep a close eye on your car. It may still leak.
Do your friends a favor too. If you know someone who drives a SN197, ask them if they have ever heard about the leak issue. Most do not know of it.
< Message edited by mail906 -- 10/13/2007 9:21:37 AM >
"Based on what you have typed in here, your attitude seems to be screw the next guy."
LOL! So because I don't take valuable time away from my wife. family, friends, etc and devote it to warning the population at large of the problems I had with my car, then I'm selfish. Hilarious. I am seriously laughing out loud here. Your altruism is remarkable. If I spent as much time as you stewing over my f'd up Mountaineer and trying to educate the car buying public, my wife would have divorced me long ago, and rightfully so.
You are one angry, resentful mofo. You've completely missed my point. What happened to your car sucks, and it sucks that Ford isn't handling it responsibly. I think we can all agree on that. But what's happening to your life as you CHOOSE to retain this anger and bitterness OVER A CAR is the real tragedy. But hey it's your life.
I'm still in Jamaica drinking some rum, so I'll try to send you some "no worries man" karma. Lord knows you need it.
< Message edited by richmod -- 10/14/2007 6:39:26 PM >
well, on the brightside, every one of your mustangs that dies, makes the other ones more unique, and in the end more valuable lol im jk of course, i would be pissed if my mustang had something like that happen, but mine seems fine, however i bought mine in vancouver, capital of rain land so they may have fixed it without me knowing
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mac axleback 95mm wms cai w/sct 91 tune pypes o/r H panasonic double din screen mtx6100 with a kenwood in the back 20" grey foose nitrous hurst ST
How pissed off was I ? I actually wasn't. The same day I got the car back from Monroe Ford I took it back to Sunshine Ford. (At this point I figured the leak was fixed by Monroe.) I went in and just asked why I was sold a car that obviously leaked. I was told it only leaked in my driveway. It NEVER leaked on their lot. So I asked him to explain why the sticker price, that I was told by the salesperson was lost, was found under the passenger side seat with severe water damage. I even showed the GM the service report from Monroe Ford that proved there was a 3" area that was never sealed at the factory. I stood there grinning waiting for an answer. I thought it was kind of funny that he had been flat out busted. THAT'S when he threatened me with the police. Those are the details I left out. (That still doesn't explain the other dealerships responses when I told them I was having a leak issue.)
Do you think the reason the car was sitting in the service bay at Sunshine Ford with the top down that maybe it being stored there to dry out ? Maybe when I had mentioned that I might have been moving to NC all of the sudden the salesperson had their "last 05" and I could get a great deal on it. Think I might have been played for an idiot ? They would have gotten rid of a leaky car, never had to repair it and it would be long gone so they wouldn't have to do anything about it ? I mean I would have been 10 hours away. Think that might have been a possibility ? Then when they see me bring the car back do you really think the GM would have wanted to do anything about the leaking car he dumped on some sucker (me in this case) ? Have you ever been to Sunshine Ford ? I find out now that they have the lowest rated service department in 3 states (NY, NJ and PA). Anything on the net that I have found lists them as a dealership you wouldn't want to buy a tricycle from. A member of Sunshine Ford's own sales let me know that the GM and the person that sold me the car are both scumbags that would stoop low enough to sell a damaged car. Makes you wonder why th GM wouldn't want me back on his lot with a car that was water damaged from the day he sold it to me doesn't it ?
Did I call back ? Yes I did I was put on hold most of the time. I even used to sit on the line in excess of an hour eventually they would just hang up on me. Did I ask to talk to a manager ? Yes I did. I was given the number of the Northeast District Manager. I filled up her voice mail at least 4x's. If she ever returned my calls it was in the afternoon when I was at work. My kids would call me at work to let me know she called. I would immediately return her call and she would not answer the phone. This went on for about 3 months. Yes I did tell her I was only available in the mornings.
And no I do not spend a lot of time dwelling on this. I get asked why there is a p*ss on Ford sticker on my car. I let people know and then I'm on my way. In a few cases it resulted in Ford losing business. The window shade that sits in the front of my car was done for free by a person that owns a sign shop and has an issue with his F150. The paint didn't stay on it. (Ford says he washed the truck improperly. Guess it couldn't handle soap and water.) It takes me 5 secs or so to put shade up there. It does a lot of talking for me. I'm far from angry or bitter. I just don't want to see people end up screwed the way I was when and if they decide to purchase a Mustang. There is a pretty good chance that it will leak and Ford will lie about it. In some severe cases, such as mine, the actual structure of the car will leak it won't be just grommets and gaskets. I'm sure the big boys and girls out there can make up their own mind. I've just let it be known how Ford and their un monitored, independent dealerships treat customers after the sale, for the most part they will be treated like garbage. All it is is a buyer beware. As for my family, they don't want to see anyone else get screwed over by Ford either. SO, no I do not dwell on this. It's more like typing practice :)
Ford Customer Care motto : You bought a Ford, you were our customer, we got your money, now we don't care.
< Message edited by WaterSoakedLemon05 -- 10/15/2007 5:24:49 PM >
Posts: 2620
Joined: 1/3/2007 From: Southeast Virginia Status: offline
quote:
ORIGINAL: WaterSoakedLemon05
How pissed off was I ? I actually wasn't. The same day I got the car back from Monroe Ford I took it back to Sunshine Ford. (At this point I figured the leak was fixed by Monroe.) I went in and just asked why I was sold a car that obviously leaked. I was told it only leaked in my driveway. It NEVER leaked on their lot. So I asked him to explain why the sticker price, that I was told by the salesperson was lost, was found under the passenger side seat with severe water damage. I even showed the GM the service report from Monroe Ford that proved there was a 3" area that was never sealed at the factory. I stood there grinning waiting for an answer. I thought it was kind of funny that he had been flat out busted. THAT'S when he threatened me with the police. Those are the details I left out. (That still doesn't explain the other dealerships responses when I told them I was having a leak issue.)
Do you think the reason the car was sitting in the service bay at Sunshine Ford with the top down that maybe it being stored there to dry out ? Maybe when I had mentioned that I might have been moving to NC all of the sudden the salesperson had their "last 05" and I could get a great deal on it. Think I might have been played for an idiot ? They would have gotten rid of a leaky car, never had to repair it and it would be long gone so they wouldn't have to do anything about it ? I mean I would have been 10 hours away. Think that might have been a possibility ? Then when they see me bring the car back do you really think the GM would have wanted to do anything about the leaking car he dumped on some sucker (me in this case) ? Have you ever been to Sunshine Ford ? I find out now that they have the lowest rated service department in 3 states (NY, NJ and PA). Anything on the net that I have found lists them as a dealership you wouldn't want to buy a tricycle from. A member of Sunshine Ford's own sales let me know that the GM and the person that sold me the car are both scumbags that would stoop low enough to sell a damaged car. Makes you wonder why th GM wouldn't want me back on his lot with a car that was water damaged from the day he sold it to me doesn't it ?
Did I call back ? Yes I did I was put on hold most of the time. I even used to sit on the line in excess of an hour eventually they would just hang up on me. Did I ask to talk to a manager ? Yes I did. I was given the number of the Northeast District Manager. I filled up her voice mail at least 4x's. If she ever returned my calls it was in the afternoon when I was at work. My kids would call me at work to let me know she called. I would immediately return her call and she would not answer the phone. This went on for about 3 months. Yes I did tell her I was only available in the mornings.
And no I do not spend a lot of time dwelling on this. I get asked why there is a p*ss on Ford sticker on my car. I let people know and then I'm on my way. In a few cases it resulted in Ford losing business. The window shade that sits in the front of my car was done for free by a person that owns a sign shop and has an issue with his F150. The paint didn't stay on it. (Ford says he washed the truck improperly. Guess it couldn't handle soap and water.) It takes me 5 secs or so to put shade up there. It does a lot of talking for me. I'm far from angry or bitter. I just don't want to see people end up screwed the way I was when and if they decide to purchase a Mustang. There is a pretty good chance that it will leak and Ford will lie about it. In some severe cases, such as mine, the actual structure of the car will leak it won't be just grommets and gaskets. I'm sure the big boys and girls out there can make up their own mind. I've just let it be known how Ford and their un monitored, independent dealerships treat customers after the sale, for the most part they will be treated like garbage. All it is is a buyer beware. As for my family, they don't want to see anyone else get screwed over by Ford either. SO, no I do not dwell on this. It's more like typing practice :)
Ford Customer Care motto : You bought a Ford, you were our customer, we got your money, now we don't care.
It is ashamed that you have had to endure so much! Did you move to NC? So far my Mustang does not leak and it stays outside all the time. I do have a good dealer that I take my vehicles to and they take care of me when and if there is a problem.
Almost moved, even had a down payment on a house in Huntersville. Then bottom fell out of the housing market here in NY and it would have been a little difficult paying 2 mortgages. So here I sit stuck in NY.
Who knows had I moved I might have been able to get my original car fixed some where down there without all the crap. They sure as hell didn't want to fix it up here.
And thank you, I THINK I have a good dealer now (Mahwah Ford in Mahwah NJ). At least so far. (It's still a little hard to use the word good and Ford dealership in the same sentence.) They didn't give me a problem about repairing the groaning clutch pack. I think it's going to have to go in for the fuel pump thing. It hesitates and bucks coming out of the toll booth after a long drive. They also couldn't appologize enough for the garbage that Ford, Monroe Ford and Sunshine Ford put me through after they saw (and smelled) the condition of my car. It seemed like they were almost embarassed that things had to go that far.
I had a 05 Convertible GT and did not have any leaks.
I know have an 08 GT and I will be watching. Had it out and got caught in heavy rains to far from home the other night and no wetness on or under the carpet. But I only have a little over 300 miles on it so far!
< Message edited by mholka -- 10/22/2007 10:16:49 AM >
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2008 Mustang GT + Steeda Q350
This is what happens when big kids have to have big toys!!!
Mine just started last week. I was up in MN and I came out to my rear passenger side tail on. I knew what it was so I popped off my inner panel in the trunk and un-plugged the light.
My dealership has been the best. Having been in the business at new car dealerships as a mechanic both foriegn and domestic for years I assumed I would get domestic dealership crappy service. Instead Harvard Ford of Harvard ILL has been top notch. Angelo SM and Jason service writer are pros, go every way possible to take care of you. I have my loaner in the driveway as they are doing the leak and fuel pump as I type this. If you are anywhere in northern ILL and your dealer service sucks take it to Harvard Ford
one more thing, thier General manager is a stang freak and has a very tweeked ride. The servcie deptartment has installed all the go fast goodies on his current and prior stangs. So as a servcie dept they are good at installing high performance stuff also. They sell allot of mustangs for such a smal dealer.
< Message edited by panzermk2 -- 10/30/2007 11:04:22 AM >
vardict is in. it was not any of the areas on the TSB leaking. It was another pinch welded seam that was missing some sealer. I am picking it up this saturday morning and I will post pics of were the leak was.
well Both mine and my moms 07 stangs are leaking hers had a major leak, was in the shop they fixed it then it had a small leak, mine has a small leak that i just found my car has around 1200 miles on it so far.. also mine never leaked till i parked it on a incline so if yours done leak try parking in on a steep driveway or a incline to see if it leaks
Posts: 767
Joined: 3/13/2005 From: PT Pleasant NJ Status: offline
I have an appointment #3 this Friday to fix the leak. Its a bad one, we're not talking any 3" size spot, this is a puddle almost 50% of the size of the floor mat. Both times they have "resealed" the cowl. Lets see what this Friday brings
i have put my car (2006 Torch GT Vert) through heavy rain and it wasnt began leaking(god forbid it does) and dads car 2003 Torch Vert has been through alot to and neither have leaked
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2006 GT Vert. stock.....for now
1979 LTD2 4dr "FORD...cause only pussies wear bowties"
I just took my car to the dealer for this tsb problem. Ever since I got my 07 back in March, it has leaked on both driver and passenger windows, usually just during heavy to mild rain. Hopefully they will fix it and not just say...ok your all set now.
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07 Black GT manual 3.55 gears C&L intake Evo tune MGW short shifter 14' shorty antenna 5% Limo Tinted windows, front turn signals, rear side markers
I just found this forum. I have an 05-Saleen S281 that just went belly up on me yesterday. My electrical is not working, Gas gauge, oil pressure all the way down. E-brake lights on, as well as check engine lights, radio, windows and alarm not working. Oh lights and brake lights not working either, except the bar on top of the plates when you brake, that seems to work fine. Turned on the car, drives normal besides these issues. I ahve called Saleen to find out what to do about this... anyone here has a Saleen with similar issues/problems? I apprecciate any help on this. Thanks, david
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RE: SERIOUS LEAKING/ELECTRICAL PROBLEMS WITH 05+ MUSTANGS - 
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