My car can't do anywhere near 50mph in 1st gear....does that make it slow?
quote:
ORIGINAL: snakeman4life
Maybe,maybe not.Just keep in mind that were giving up at least 70 cubic inches.If ford made the mod motors the same size as the GM cars,it wouldn't even be close power wise.I'm not losing any sleep over it though.
You're kidding me, right? The 4.6 DOHC motor is already the size of an old big block. Ever wonder why the 427 SOHC motor never made it that far? Because it took a GD boat to carry that huge motor. Hello 4500lb "performance" car.
LSx's are advanced pushrod motors. The only thing that makes them advance is the awesome head design, other than that, they're old SBC's. I know I know, that's hard to believe.
GM has already dabbled in the OHC design and found out it wasn't the way to go. Thank God they had some sense.
The fact that the GT is a mid engined blown 331 and still has it's hands full with a front engine, N/A 427, is horrible....especially with the cost threw into the equation.
Snakeman....a rearend is a direct bolt-on for LSx's too, but most people don't spend $1800+ for a bolt-on.....
MFR team member #666 Posts: 8331
Joined: 10/23/2005 From: Montreal, Canada Status: offline
quote:
ORIGINAL: 98LS1
The fact that the GT is a mid engined blown 331 and still has it's hands full with a front engine, N/A 427, is horrible.
how's that so horrible ? it has 96 extra cubes, that definetly should compensate for a blower...and then some. i don't get how you guys are always bangin' on the fact the their blown, especially since you're running a huge shot of nitrous.
< Message edited by HC_CrAzYHoRsE -- 10/7/2006 3:46:27 PM >
The fact that the GT is a mid engined blown 331 and still has it's hands full with a front engine, N/A 427, is horrible.
how's that so horrible ? it has 96 extra cubes, that definetly should compensate for a blower...and then some. i don't get how you guys are always bangin' on the fact the their blown, especially since you're running a huge shot of nitrous.
The mid engine part is what gets me....not the power adder. And cubes don't usually compesate for forced air. I guess I can get technical about this if you want, only, it'll save us both some time/energy to just accept it.
And I have never ran a huge shot, only a 125! I don't even have that anymore, since I traded it for a 3.5" aluminum TH400 driveshaft.....
< Message edited by 98LS1 -- 10/7/2006 3:50:03 PM >
MFR team member #666 Posts: 8331
Joined: 10/23/2005 From: Montreal, Canada Status: offline
quote:
ORIGINAL: 98LS1
quote:
ORIGINAL: HC_CrAzYHoRsE
quote:
ORIGINAL: 98LS1
The fact that the GT is a mid engined blown 331 and still has it's hands full with a front engine, N/A 427, is horrible.
how's that so horrible ? it has 96 extra cubes, that definetly should compensate for a blower...and then some. i don't get how you guys are always bangin' on the fact the their blown, especially since you're running a huge shot of nitrous.
The mid engine part is what gets me....not the power adder. And cubes don't usually compesate for forced air. I guess I can get technical about this if you want, only, it'll save us both some time/energy to just accept it.
And I have never ran a huge shot, only a 125! I don't even have that anymore, since I traded it for a 3.5" aluminum TH400 driveshaft.....
i thought you were getting a venom kit or something?...nevermind. ...how does cubes not compensate for FI ? a 347 stroker will run the same as times as vorteched 302... at least from what i gathered. 2 of my buddies had the exact same edelbrock H/C/I set-up and ran pretty much the same. then one of them went with a stroker kit, the other went with an S-trim, they were still running side by side at the track.... that is, until the FI guy went with 14lb pulley and a custom cam.
The auto S197 is quicker then the 5 speed S197. Funny how GM needs it largest engines in it's platforms to beat Fords smallest engines in their platforms. That's something to brag about for sure.
Excuses, excuses. Ford could choose to build a bigger engine. When I come on here and say I beat V8's I always hear well if the V8 had a turbo it would destroy you, and why is that??? because it's BIGGER. There really is no replacement for displacement.
MFR team member #666 Posts: 8331
Joined: 10/23/2005 From: Montreal, Canada Status: offline
thank you professor but you're still agreeing with me though right here
quote:
This shows that it would take an N/A 556ci motor to move as much air as a 331ci motor at only, ONLY, 10psi boost.
so cubes do compensate for FI
obviously there's more into play, the GT has what ? a 8.4:1~8.5:1 CR ? ...wait! i don't even remember what were arguing about obviously there was a reason why i didn't go with a mod motor
< Message edited by HC_CrAzYHoRsE -- 10/7/2006 4:24:03 PM >
thank you professor but you're still agreeing with me though right here
quote:
This shows that it would take an N/A 556ci motor to move as much air as a 331ci motor at only, ONLY, 10psi boost.
so cubes do compensate for FI
obviously there's more into play, the GT has what ? a 8.4:1~8.5:1 CR ? ...wait! i don't even remember what were arguing about obviously there was a reason why i didn't go with a mod motor
Well, you're right, but not a 427 LS7 small block.
And you didn't go with a mod motor b/c you want to go fast and not take out a 2nd mortgage.
LSx's are advanced pushrod motors. The only thing that makes them advance is the awesome head design, other than that, they're old SBC's. I know I know, that's hard to believe.
So you're saying that the LS7 motor is basicly the same 427 GM used in the 60's.......just with better heads. My my, GM is saving so much money on R+D.......you'd think they would still be turning a profit.
< Message edited by ThisBlood147 -- 10/7/2006 4:35:24 PM >
Posts: 4026
Joined: 7/26/2004 From: St. Louis, MO Status: offline
I know I'm not a moderator, but whenever the age-old useless argument of Ford vs GM, cubes vs FI rears its head the thread should be put down like Old Yeller. It just turns into 23 pages of unproductive bickering. Making a motor with more displacement and the compact pushrod design, making use of the space inside the block and therefore reducing the outside dimensions, is smart. So is pushing as much air into the intake as possible by way of an air compressor. They're both good. Jeez. BTW, I just drove a Grand National today with 231 cubes and a hairdryer and man is it more fun then my car!
I know I'm not a moderator, but whenever the age-old useless argument of Ford vs GM, cubes vs FI rears its head the thread should be put down like Old Yeller. It just turns into 23 pages of unproductive bickering. Making a motor with more displacement and the compact pushrod design, making use of the space inside the block and therefore reducing the outside dimensions, is smart. So is pushing as much air into the intake as possible by way of an air compressor. They're both good. Jeez. BTW, I just drove a Grand National today with 231 cubes and a hairdryer and man is it more fun then my car!
Quick everyone, we another 20 pages to fill up before an admin closes this!
I know I'm not a moderator, but whenever the age-old useless argument of Ford vs GM, cubes vs FI rears its head the thread should be put down like Old Yeller. It just turns into 23 pages of unproductive bickering. Making a motor with more displacement and the compact pushrod design, making use of the space inside the block and therefore reducing the outside dimensions, is smart. So is pushing as much air into the intake as possible by way of an air compressor. They're both good. Jeez. BTW, I just drove a Grand National today with 231 cubes and a hairdryer and man is it more fun then my car!
+1 Thank God someone understands!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Bottom line,someone makes a post about Mustangs vs Ls1's,someone makes a good point about some aspect of a Mustang being better,someone else makes an equally good point about some aspect of a Ls1/Fbody being better,98LS1 comes in and more or less trashes Mustangs and talks about how Fbodys are the greatest thing under the sun,BLAH,BLAH,BLAH.No body is going to convince a Mustang or a Fbody owner that the other car is better,DRIVE AND ENJOY YOUR FUGGIN CAR,NO MATTER WHICH SIDE YOUR ON AND DON'T WORRY ABOUT WHICH ONE IS BETTER!!!!!!!!!!
Team MF Member #2046 Posts: 12516
Joined: 1/22/2004 From: United States Status: offline
quote:
ORIGINAL: AcePilot
Guys guys guys, reading this post made me register just so I can post a reply.
Here is my car history. 96 Camaro SS 97 Mustang GT 4.5 01 Corvette 06 GTO
Sorry to say, but the slowest car out of the bunch was the mustang, the fastest was the vette, then followed by the GTO, and then the SS. The SS was fast for its time, mine had 350hp while 96 vettes had 300hp. I could occasianally take down a 97 vette, but could definatly hang with them. The vette was a different story, no stock budget muscle car could hang with it period. After a couple of times I stopped racing camaros or mustangs (now porshes and vipers were a different story).
The GTO is a fast car, not as fast an C6 vette, but it's fast. I don't race all that much but when Z28 come up asking for races I give it to them every once in a while, so far haven't been beat yet.
The problem with the mustang was it's granny transmission, the LS1-LS2 and even the LT1, can run all the way up to 50-55mph in first, where the mustang has to shift around 35-40mph, and once the LSx hits third its all over, because that's where it pulls the most.
Two all of you stock mustang owners that claim to have beaten GTOs, Vettes, or Z28, i suggest that you roll down your window and ask the guy if he wants to race before you actually race.
I have had people with their ricers come up next to my vette, thinking that I am driving hard, while I was just easing around town, and would honk their horn 3 times and take off, it was funny because I would drive the same speed, the would get 2 or 3 cars ahead (would take them 10 seconds) and then they turn on their flashers! Dude I wasn't racing!
wow, we are really educated now.
Your "4.5" mustang was a 96. The 96 was and is the slowest V8 mustang produced since the 60s. I would think a 5.0 mustang 2 would give it a run...
And your argument about the transmission... so your saying I should step back down to a 3.27 or even 2.73 gearset instead of my 3.73s to make it faster? Rofl.
Comparing your 96 GT to a 05 GT is defantaly a apples to towtrucks comparason. Not even close to the same animial.
A 05/06 GT should take down a LS1 GTO from a stop fairly easily. From a roll will probably be a drivers race.
A LS2 GTO might get beat from a stop, but not from a roll.
A 05/06 GT should be a drivers race with a auto/2.73 LS1. I have my doubts that a 6psd/3.45 LS1 would be anwhere close (LS1 should run away)
+1 Thank God someone understands!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Bottom line,someone makes a post about Mustangs vs Ls1's,someone makes a good point about some aspect of a Mustang being better,someone else makes an equally good point about some aspect of a Ls1/Fbody being better,98LS1 comes in and more or less trashes Mustangs and talks about how Fbodys are the greatest thing under the sun,BLAH,BLAH,BLAH.No body is going to convince a Mustang or a Fbody owner that the other car is better,DRIVE AND ENJOY YOUR FUGGIN CAR,NO MATTER WHICH SIDE YOUR ON AND DON'T WORRY ABOUT WHICH ONE IS BETTER!!!!!!!!!!
How do you figure? Because I tell you something that have no idea about....just like your post about making a big OHC motor with equal cubes...sure it'd make power, but it'd be the size of the car itself. It's not my fault you, and many others, have no idea wtf they're talking about half the time.
quote:
ORIGINAL: ThisBlood147
So you're saying that the LS7 motor is basicly the same 427 GM used in the 60's.......just with better heads. My my, GM is saving so much money on R+D.......you'd think they would still be turning a profit.
No, the old 427 is a big block, this is a small block. And yes, it's basically the same with far more advanced head technology and some pretty internals to make sure things don't break. That's pretty much it.
You guys should really research this stuff before blabbing off about it, it'd save everyone some time/effort and would make some of you look smarter.
And 2000, it's 3.42.
< Message edited by 98LS1 -- 10/8/2006 1:08:56 AM >
Team MF Member #2046 Posts: 12516
Joined: 1/22/2004 From: United States Status: offline
quote:
ORIGINAL: 98LS1
quote:
ORIGINAL: snakeman4life
+1 Thank God someone understands!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Bottom line,someone makes a post about Mustangs vs Ls1's,someone makes a good point about some aspect of a Mustang being better,someone else makes an equally good point about some aspect of a Ls1/Fbody being better,98LS1 comes in and more or less trashes Mustangs and talks about how Fbodys are the greatest thing under the sun,BLAH,BLAH,BLAH.No body is going to convince a Mustang or a Fbody owner that the other car is better,DRIVE AND ENJOY YOUR FUGGIN CAR,NO MATTER WHICH SIDE YOUR ON AND DON'T WORRY ABOUT WHICH ONE IS BETTER!!!!!!!!!!
How do you figure? Because I tell you something that have no idea about....just like your post about making a big OHC motor with equal cubes...sure it'd make power, but it'd be the size of the car itself. It's not my fault you, and many others, have no idea wtf they're talking about half the time.
quote:
ORIGINAL: ThisBlood147
So you're saying that the LS7 motor is basicly the same 427 GM used in the 60's.......just with better heads. My my, GM is saving so much money on R+D.......you'd think they would still be turning a profit.
No, the old 427 is a big block, this is a small block. And yes, it's basically the same with far more advanced head technology and some pretty internals to make sure things don't break. That's pretty much it.
You guys should really research this stuff before blabbing off about it, it'd save everyone some time/effort and would make some of you look smarter.
And 2000, it's 3.42.
Close enough.
Lets not forget the 427s hyped up technology. Filled valves and all that.
Honestly I didn't read 1/2 this post, so I have no idea what they are arguing about, but the 427 from chevy is definatly putting out VERY impressive numbers, even considering the displacement.
I didn't think the 427 had ANYTHING to do with the old big blocks? I didn't research it, but I kinda figured it was a hoppped up headed LS2 setup with more dispalcement and all the toys (titanium filled valvles and all that?)
No, the old 427 is a big block, this is a small block. And yes, it's basically the same with far more advanced head technology and some pretty internals to make sure things don't break. That's pretty much it.
You guys should really research this stuff before blabbing off about it, it'd save everyone some time/effort and would make some of you look smarter.
The old 427 was a big block??? The new one is a small block??? Holy sh*t!! I totally didn't know that.
Trust me.........the LS7 under the hood of the Z06 is not some 800 dollar motor built by Billy Bob in the back of his barn. And I said that it was still an older configuration of engine build, but with lots of technology behind it......which you went on to backup, in a convoluted "Ha, I'm smarter than you" sorta way. You really should read posts fully before blabbing off about it, it'd save everyone some time/effort and would make some of you look smarter.
P.S. The check light on your sarcasm sensor is on........you may want to look into it.
< Message edited by ThisBlood147 -- 10/8/2006 3:36:18 AM >
+1 Thank God someone understands!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Bottom line,someone makes a post about Mustangs vs Ls1's,someone makes a good point about some aspect of a Mustang being better,someone else makes an equally good point about some aspect of a Ls1/Fbody being better,98LS1 comes in and more or less trashes Mustangs and talks about how Fbodys are the greatest thing under the sun,BLAH,BLAH,BLAH.No body is going to convince a Mustang or a Fbody owner that the other car is better,DRIVE AND ENJOY YOUR FUGGIN CAR,NO MATTER WHICH SIDE YOUR ON AND DON'T WORRY ABOUT WHICH ONE IS BETTER!!!!!!!!!!
How do you figure? Because I tell you something that have no idea about....just like your post about making a big OHC motor with equal cubes...sure it'd make power, but it'd be the size of the car itself. It's not my fault you, and many others, have no idea wtf they're talking about half the time.
< Message edited by snakeman4life -- 10/8/2006 10:29:26 AM >
Printable Version
RE: which car is a better challenge - 
i don't get how you guys are always bangin' on the fact the their blown, especially since you're running a huge shot of nitrous.
but you're still agreeing with me though right here 
obviously there was a reason why i didn't go with a mod motor
My my, GM is saving so much money on R+D.......you'd think they would still be turning a profit.
