I don't NEED Muscle to beat Asian Cars. I have dragraced my dad's 1993 Mercury Topaz GS V6 2dr 5spd against MANY Hondas and Acuras (modded with intake, exhaust, and cosmetic stuff, and yes, I could hear the intake and exhaust were modded), both from a standstill and rolling start. By the time I was grabbing 3rd gear, the speedo is hitting 100+ km's/hr, and climbing. The asian car, winding out to 9,000+ rpm or more, and falling further and further behind (beat a 2000 Si by over 3 lengths homez, and he was goosing his engine for all it had in the first 4 gears). My old man even PASSES asian cars on onramps or offramps in his Topaz. He's got replacement springs and shocks, but so do the cars he's passing.
Speaking of winding out engines, if I wanted to shift at 9,000-12,000+ rpm, then I'd buy a crotch rocket. And if RPM's are of consequence to you, then check out the 1st Gen Ford Tuarus SHO. That engine was capable of over 10,000rpm, a speed that the engine was run at NON-STOP for a WEEK to prove it's durability. They could have gone faster, but the water pump, alternator, and other accesories were caving in and failing at that point. Now, before you go telling me that the engine was designed by Yamaha and Mazda and whatnot, I'll do you a favour and tell you that that is incorrect. The INTAKE manifold was designed by Yamaha. That's it. They came up with the design and manufacturing processes. The cylinder head was designed in conjunction with Mazda, becasue Mazda wanted to use a variant of that engine in the 626 at the time. The block design and casting was co-ordinated with cosworth.
On another note, when my dad owned a 1987 Saab 9000 Turbo with over 350,000km's on it, he could EAT his friends MkIII Supra Turbo Targa going down the ramp and upto highway speed (Supra was a 5 spd, the Saab was an Auto btw). It could also do in excess of 150mph stock. When it had over 400,000km's on it, and blown oil seals on the turbo, and the water pump pulley was seizing, the car was still capable of over 100mph. A feat that stock 4cyl asian cars could barely muster in TOP condition/ or new.
BTW, my 1977 Chevrolet Silverado with it's tired 350 V8 and 3 spd Auto with OVER 500,000 MILES on it, will still outpace a lot of NEW 4cyl cars, from any brand.
Oh yeah, each individual lugnut on my Mustang's rims have more ft lbs of torque than a Honda Civic or Toyota Corolla. Oh yeah, so did the engine in my Ford Focus too...
Have I said enough yet?
But wait, there's more....
If more people like you continue to act like sheep and flock to Toyota Honda and Nissan (and Hyundai and Kia now too) for all of your vehicles, because you have this notion that they are better (whether this betterness is determined by mpg, or resale value, or repairs), then maybe you will put the big 3 out of business. You already pointed that out in this thread with the refference to the stock options of the big 3 versus the other auto makers. If you put the big 3 out of business, you'll be putting 100's of thousands of your countrymen and women out of a job. But I won't stop there. You'll put the other 100's of thousands of people in the dealerships out of a job too. Then let's not forget the 100's of thousands of people that work for the support companies, like Tenneco Automotive, Delphi, Dana, Visteon, etc out of a job. And then put THEIR suppliers out of a job. Hmmm, without all that brand support, what do you think will happen to SEMA? To Nascar ( if that's something you are into)...they'll be a LOT worse for wear. Oh yeah, you'll F*** the North American Economy on a major scale. Both the US and parts of Canada's economies are driven by the automobile industry. So why not look at the big picture huh? And before you start prattling on about the asian car companies keep opening plants in North America every year, and employ 100's of thousands of American and Canadian Auto workers, those people work for THEM. Not them AND the big 3. Also go watch the episode of Ford Bold Moves where the president of Ford of the Americas goes to see the Toyota plant in texas, and see that most of the parking lot is full of FORD and GM trucks, driven by the employees, and by the contractors. NOT toyotas.
BTW, more people lust after the car from Bullit, and Elanor than ANY asian car.
5sp Manual Supra's were only single turbo, maybe like 210hp? not very much. and a Toyota Supra RZ Twin Turbo has no limits on highways. BTW civics dont shift at 9,000rpm..thats to much for those things. That was about the Skyline which has no limits anywhere. and Just because you can hear a cars muffler doesn't mean its fast. Performance is performance no matter what it looks like or how it sounds. none of you can say different.
I didn't say anything about assuming an exhaust or Intake sound determines performance or if it makes me think the car must be fast. I was merely stating what the guy had done, and I knew what he had done by the sound the car made, as I had an exhaust and a AEM CAI on my Focus.
I know that the Supra Turbo wasn't very powerfull for the MkIII, but neither was the Saab my old man had. Both weighed roughly the same, but the Saab was faster, and I don't know why.
Also I was thinking today about you all were doing cost comparisons of buying the type of cars you like/preffer, and sinking money into them...the same amount of money.
So lets do that, but put another twist on things. Things are different for those of us north of the border, as cars are more expensive here. First off, for what I paid used for my 05 Stang GT, is the same amount of money I could have payed for a Ralliart Lancer. The Evo isn't even allowed here as I'm sure you know, since it's FMIC setup leaves it with a front clip that won't pass safety regs here in Canada. So, the closest thing to an Evo, is a Ralliart. I could have decided to pay $40,000 BEFORE interest, and over $730 cdn per month to finance a Mazda6 Sport (or over 50K for the Mazdaspeed6). If I wanted to buy one of these other cars, a WRX STi , Nissan Maxima 3.5SE or Altima SE-R or 350Z even, they are all OVER $50,000 cdn, before you even add the taxes. When Ford had employee pricing on, you could go and buy a 2007 Mustang GT with the 18" Chrome Bullitts, the Shaker hood, and EVERY option for $34,000 cdn, with ZERO down, before taxes.
So now I've determined that I would rather spend $34K before taxes on a new Stang (that's if I had bought new) than bridge the difference to a $50,000 Asian car in the same power league, and stock for stock too.
Now, let's put the additional $15K you saved buying a Stang into a visit to a place like SHM. We'll put in a Kenne Bell S/C, exhaust, some head work, injectors, MAF, tuning, maybe some other goodies, and what the...you have a street legal 700+hp Car that will run on pump gas, and without spray. SHM has more than one turn-key car at their shop in Woodstock ON that is over 600hp to the rear wheels with light boost, and NO spray.
Put the same $15K on top of the $50,000 already spent on something like a 350Z. Let's use something like a Vortech S/C, exhaust, headwork, and tuning, and end up with a car that's around 400-450+hp to the wheels.
Both vehicles would have been NA to begin with, and both of them have S/C's....hmmm, the Stang is still more powerfull. Why is that?
Of course you can make an EVO VII or VIII Faster and even destroy a Mustang. You also can with an STI, a Supra, or even an S15 Silvia. But how much would you have to spend to make that happen...? $50K? $70K? Don't forget that a lot of those cars (with the Toyta and Nissans I just used as examples being the exceptions) are also stripped down versions of a cheaper car with cloth interiors and almost Zero Creature comforts. They also have little suspension compliance, especially in the cold like we get up here in Canada, which translates into a crummy car to drive long distance in. My point? just trying to remind you that while a lot of imports aren't a "1-trick-pony" (no pun intended), neither are Mustangs, or other Muscle cars for that matter.
Just some more stuff to consider.
< Message edited by Drivesthebeast -- 12/7/2006 10:31:09 AM >
I have a few questions for you import people that decided to grace us with your presence....
Why would you come on a MUSTANG forum to talk smack? The thread was started as a joke making fun of some of the ricer cars we see every day. I'm sure you do too. Here are some examples for you since you cant seem to figure it out.
Need more examples? Cause I can do this all damn day long man. Look I'm not saying that you cant make an import fast. We have all agreed that it can be done. Hell I OWNED TWO BEFORE MY MUSTANGS!!! This thread was started as a joke until some of you guys came in here talking sh!t about our Stangs. BTW what do you own and drive again?? Would it be any of the cars you were talking about whipping our car's asses? Cause if you are anywhere near me I'm game for it man. I'm stock (even an automatic) outside of exhaust and gears, but I promise you you'll take a different opinion of Mustangs afterwards.
Here is the TRUCK I owned before my Stang.
And yes I have taken one or two Mustangs in my time, but can pass them off as bad drivers for the most part.
Then I owned a Honda Accord V6 until a few months ago.
Now I have THIS:
Dollar for dollar, you can pull more performance and power out of a Mustang or a V8 than you could ever get out of an import short of you owning the company. Not knocking them, but you have to admit that it takes a lot more to pull the same numbers out of a car with half the displacement. That's just a fact. Drive what you like to drive. No one is gonna bash you for it, but dont come in here throwing around stuff you "know" to be a fact. I've been on both sides of the spectrum, and I know the difference. And I'm driving what was the best choice for me. Lot more power for a lot less money.
< Message edited by lookin4astang -- 12/6/2006 10:17:40 PM >
I used to have a 240SX with some **** done...it was fast. It was a pain in the ass to keep up with to keep it relieable. The biggest thing is that the entire car was not designed to go that fast or handle the amount of power I had in it. Hondas, Acuras, VW's w/e the import is, yea they can easly be fast as hell but to keep the relieability of the car is just impossible most of the time. Ex. my 240 was an 89.....strong tranny, motor, and rear. Low mileage all kinds of nonsense done. The thing needed a bigger radiator, better tune. Try to get parts for it was a pain in the ass, most of the time you cant got to Advance or Autozone to get a little b/s thing. Plus when you can go there usually the part is not going to hold up with everything the car has done to it.
Yea you take a Honda and put 350 horses in it...its fast and needs better brakes If you make a Cobra have 750 horses you most likely gonna need to upgrade brakes too but every apsect of that car was made for speed, and power, you put those brakes on that Honda and something else is gonna go.... its a never ending process.
Some ppl are able to make 400hp civis that run 11's out handle porsches and drive daily with decent gas mileage and look ok(to extent of a honda) but they are FEW AND FAR BETWEEN.
Bottom line....how many girls have you picked up with your import....I had my 240 for 3 years...I had my Mustang for under 2 months ....HELL OF A LOT MORE LOOKS AND COMPLEMENTS.... I actually had a couple girls who dont care for cars sayin "damn this is a nice car" My import would have tossed my Mach 1 like a pitbull with a ragdoll But that torque 2 wheel peel and V8 roar are just too sweet and the whole car is made for what it is and made for more... imports are not bad, I would say modified they can equal Americans and sometimes outdue them but to each his own but you will never ever see an import match a American in popularity...
Gone in Sixty Seconds Bullitt Smokey and the Bandit Knightrider ...i know there is more... What the imports got? Fast and Furious 1-3(in #3 a Domestic was used with a import motor..dumb idea.. but still a American)(#2 it took all the imports had to beat the Camaro and Hemi)
ask someone about the orange surpa or something, then ask who Elanore is....
Posts: 165
Joined: 4/27/2006 From: Chicago Status: offline
quote:
ORIGINAL: EvoVII
You guys probably think your all big and bad and everything, ripping on 4 CYLINDERS. But the truth is, you can mod up a Honda Civic, Acura Integra, Subaru Impreza, Mitsubishi Evo, Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX, and so forth FAR MORE than you can your broke a$$ pony's. Stock to Stock drag racing, everyone signed up on this site knows that a stock V8 Camaro Z28 or SS, Mustang GT, and Corvette, excluding the Z06, couldn't beat a Subaru Impreza 22B STi in a drag race, and its ONLY a 4 CYLINDER. Yea, they may sound different, and dont have that ugly, gas guzzling sound as those V8's, but they're still quick.
Who let this bozo in here? Doesn't the banner at the top say 'MUSTANG Forums'? enh, whatever, let the little rice-BOYS have their fun... probably the biggest auto-related thrill that they get...
You might be a ricer if... it TAKES a turbo pushing double-digit boost to break into the 15's!
You know, sure, I might not be able to beat an XYZ PDQ42 Impreza stock-to-stock... but I DON'T HAVE A POWER ADDER!!! There's no replacement for displacement... oh yeah, and I paid less too ;-)
so you don't want to buy a mustang, but you come to a mustang site??? that's like saying, I'm on a diet but I'd just like to see what they have to offer at the krispy kreme today...
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14 inch rusted Keystones, tired leaking 302, poorly applied custom landau top, wally world special audio system. It could always be worse, it could be a yugo!
so you don't want to buy a mustang, but you come to a mustang site??? that's like saying, I'm on a diet but I'd just like to see what they have to offer at the krispy kreme today...
oh such hatred in this thread. you guys enjoy hating imports. but it will not change the fact that all in all, imports as a whole have far outlasted any american car ever made... that your stock has reached an all time low in the market (http://finance.google.com/finance?q=F).... now look at Toyota(http://finance.google.com/finance?q=tm&hl=en)....that your company is on the verge of bankrupcy and is talking merger with GM to keep their heads above water... that you owe every ounce of lust for displacement to Rudolph Deisel (german) who designed the internal combustion engine. that VOLVO ownes the record for the only car to make it over 1 million miles.... oh and thats BEOFRE ford bought them and ran their reliability into the ground.... that half of your engine management systems are made by nippon denso (toyota).... that your company makes the focus and as far as rice goes they're right up there with the the civic.
You know what really chaps my a$$ about some prick gloating about the financial troubles at Ford? It is our neighbors jobs that are being lost, and no one cares. There's no sense of community, of watching each others backs.
Back in 2000, Harbour Consulting released a study that's been quoted at one time or another by every news source in this country. This study rated North American auto factories in a number of categories and made other observations about the industry in general.
One of the most widely reported figures from the Harbour Report was that there is a $2400 profit gap between North American auto makers and their European and Asian peers. The reason is structural costs that they bear like health & life insurance, good pension plans, and family & retiree costs for the same. Since the state welfare frameworks in the foreign countries mentioned about are much more comprehensive, those companies spend about $2400 less per vehicle on these things.
And some f'ing weasel has the nerve to come onto a site like this and gloat about the financial difficulties of the big three?
Wouldn't you love to go to the engineers at Ford and say here's $2400 per car for you to improve the Stang and we won't even have to raise the price. If you've ever wondered why North American manufacturers have absolutely ceded the subcompact market to the Asian manufacturers this is why. $2K is just too big a disadvantage for a $10-14K automobile.
So, you ricers and import-biased pricks keep on buying your Hondas and Toyotas. Your neighbors jobs aren't really that important. They'll find other work, right? You demonstrate by your actions that your selfish desire be different is more important than their livelihoods. Saving a few hundred dollars in total cost of ownership just demonstrates your superior financial management skills, and is clearly far more important than some laid off neighbor.
All I'm really saying here is that I constrain my buying decisions to American brands and their subsidiaries. I live with those limitations because I see the larger context of my decisions. I believe that if the playing field was level American brands would deliver the same OR BETTER features and performance than foreign brands that benefit from the welfare costs that GM, Ford, and Chrysler pay, but Japan, Inc. and Euro manufacturers don't pay. And it PISSES ME OFF to have some pimple faced prick gloating about their financial troubles.
Sorry for the long post. I just had to get that off my chest.
Posts: 2972
Joined: 12/15/2006 From: Lafayette/Gulf of Mexico, LA Status: offline
OOH OOH OOH, ricer bashin, I can't believe I've been missin out on this thread. I have one response to ALL the arguements:
PUT UP OR SHUT UP!
I want to see video of you beating someone, or a proveable timeslip, something, quit internet racing and folow through ya jackasses. You can ask everyone that has asked me what my car runs, my asnswer is, I don't know, even though 100 other cars out there have my same mods, I don't know what my car runs with me driving it, nor do I know it's power output, what I do know is that my car gets more looks than yours, is safer in an accident, ad is actually fun to drive, because after someone says my car looks good good it's not followed by, "for a honda". Ricer's always make excuses and its constantly the same ****. "Yeah but nismo made xxxhp in their one car at one time that was never sold anywhere near but it's still means that it makes all lesser ricers better than anything american." You know a few import companies have made a few fast cars, but they made a lot more cheap economy cars, which were never designed to race, yet RICERS try anyway. EVOs were never made to drag race, they were merely produced so that Subaru, the great company that brought us the "Justy," could run the CHASSIS in WRC. They were required to make them, and they are nothing like their WRC counterparts.
The american MUSCLE CAR market was designed so the average american can own a fun fast car out the box, PERIOD. Ricer's never wanna race the Vipers, or the Z06's, or the Cobras, because they dactually understand the word RAPE.
Now take anything, make it illegal as all hell and then trying to race people in their bone stock sports cars, and talking **** after winning is retarded, hence RICER. O rthey try to bash for bad grammar and spelling, since that also adds hp!
The plain and simple truth is that there's always someone with something faster, PERIOD. So shut the **** up and get over yourselves, you agravating ricers that are ruining my meca of american power.
lol i say ricers that are still buying there 20g car it has even around 230 fly hp...and spend 6 g into it to get 350-400 rwhp lol..plz ill take a stang,even a camaro,older cardrop a v8 in it and a sc on it and make it 450 rwhp for less then 12 g..i have a 82 capri with around 350 rwhp all motor no turbo no sc..a 302 and i have including car buying price around 6g. give me 22 more g to add ..and its no competition///by the time a newer ricer pays off his car its around 18-30g avg ..and adds more to it to getthe hp he wants.. dont make cents$...you can even take a stock v8 add a turbo like a4 banger and will have more hp..with out a turbo,sc on a4banger there nuthing..do anything to a v8 that ya do to a 4banger and theres no comparison..
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quit lookin at the pic to the left,and listen to what were all sayin!!!
I think it's funny how import owners always get offensive to the term ricer. To many import owners, it doesn't even apply. Usually ricer is used in two connotations.
1.) Is what most people freak out about. This is the one who's car looks like **** and the owner purposely made it that way in order for it to look fast or actually think it does help with speed. Many cases this owner is so far from the truth that even other import owners can't help but make fun of them. This connation applies to pretty much everything, although imports seem to be prime suspect only because they make it that way. There are a crap load of domestic ricers too, I can't name how many Cavaliers I've laughed at simply because they looked so crappy. Heck you could make a tractor rice if you painted it several different shades of color changing pink, put a spoiler on it, some ground affects taped on with duct tape, and put a turbo on the engine and super de-duper alarm system on the wagon and claim your John Deere could plow more corn than any International could. As you see, it's not what's used to make the vehicle rice, it's going about it, and reasoning behind it that matters. 2.) The second connatation of rice is just a general reference to foreign cars. As most foreign cars that people are familiar with tend to be coupled with Japanese companies, and Japanese a rice tend to go together, the term rice is sometimes just a reference to any imported car. It's not necessarily a bad thing in these terms, but when all a person is subjected to is a negative meaning of a word, how can you help not seeing the neutral side?
I really don't see what the big deal about having a joke page on a site that is devoted to an American car. No matter what connotation is used. No one got onto an Import Car Forum to post these jokes, and if they did, then that's sad. But obviously an import car owner searching out on domestic owner forums is looking for a fight, which is just as bad. I'm sure these foreign car owner sites have domestic bashing now don't they. I've never really seen someone on here just start a thread bashing all imports, most of them you see are comparison threads, that people either back up with facts or we all are entitled to our opinion. And this thread here didn't even say IMPORTS SUCK, what it states is RICERS SUCK--the type who ruin their cars. It wasn't until someone comes bashing on domestics that any problems arose.
You don't just walk into a heavyweight boxing ring from a lightweight, talk trash, and then expect not to get punched. I can guarantee that the lightweights wouldn't like one heavy weight talking trash, and they would probably gang up on the heavy weight and punch him too. I can also guarantee the heavy weights will be saying "hey look how strong we are" and the lightweight will say "look how quick we are". Is either one doing anything wrong, no, there's nothing wrong with confidence or self motivation. It's an intrusion that's hated.
Basically, the people who own rice can be grouped like this. Either they have a rice car they bought for work reasons cause it was cheap and they don't give a **** what anyone says about it, so there's no reason to waste their time argueing. They own a non-rice car, but get easily offended simply because they think their import is the car being referred to, low self esteem maybe. Or the third, they actually own rice, but they obviously are doing it on purpose so are oblivious to the fact they are the defendants because they just think their car is cool and everyone thinks so, so they're not rice. Probably more categories but I'm done for now. I've wanted to get that off my chest for several months now, and well there ya go. Thanks for listening.
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RE: How do you no if your a Ricer? - 
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14 inch rusted Keystones, tired leaking 302, poorly applied custom landau top, wally world special audio system. It could always be worse, it could be a yugo! 
