I spend the majority of my time in the 5.0 forum, so apologize if my the spontaneity of my comments is a disturbance. I would just like to let new stang owners in on some info. If you experience any type of hesitations or power losses on acceleration, especially after a long cruise - have your dealer check it out. There is an updated fuel pump that is designed to prevent cavitation (localized boiling that will cause the formation of tiny bubbles. These bubbles collect in the primary fuel filter and will be sucked up from time to time giving hesitations). This only applies to '05's and early build '06's. Also be careful what modifications you leave on in the event your car is ever worked on by the dealer. Like Saleen and Roush vehicles with powertrain modifications, your powertrain warrany will be voided if a failure is in any way attributable to the modification. This basically includes everything except cold air intakes (with well kept filters) and exhuast that is extremely similar to stock. PCM programs are getting easier to identify and will cause problems as well. The problem you have filling your fuel tank is being considered a characteristic until 2009 and will not be addressed further than a filler neck adjustment and an updated fuel tank (that do not completely resolve the issue). The best hope you have is to fill the tank only when it reaches 1/2 or less. The noises of your transmission are normal and will worsen with age. Best to just accept it. Has there ever been a mustang with a decent 5 speed? Changing your oil is clutch in keeping your engine mechanically sound. This is obvious but moreso with the 3v design. The VCT or variable cam timing system is extremely dependent on the cleanliness of your oil. Small oil feed passages will easily clog up and create anything from noise to driveability problems, check engine lights and maybe engine damage. Have your spark plugs removed somewhat often and do NOT drive your mustang like a grandmother. The 3v design has a problem with the unique style of spark plug that is required - it likes to break off in the cylinder head. This is an ongoing problem with the 5.4 3v in the trucks and the 4.6 3v is absolutely no different in design operation. The difference in use is what makes this less common in the Mustang. You have a 50% chance of this being minor enough to address without cylinder head removal (thousand dollar + job) but more than likely it will require more than the dealer and a special tool recently designed by Rotunda to remove it. Just like with the oil quality thing, ask a 5.4 3v truck owner. The plugs break off in the head because the center portion of the plug is extended and unusually exposed to the combustion event. This causes carbon to build up between the plug and the head effectively fusing the two together. That's about all the latest on the 4.6 3v powertrain. Aside from a few connecting rod issues for early '06 builds (which you should have experienced by now if you had them) I have pretty much covered the important stuff.... I will post any other helpful goodies should they arrive.
ooops, my lack of introduction..... Let's just say that I have extremely credible sources of information and share it in the spirit of good will. I feel caring owners should know what they are paying for and use the information not as a way to inspire you to "get new parts" but as a way to prevent the need for such. Should you not be experiencing any of these issues, you need not be concerned. BTW, ditch the K&N air filter. It tricks the cars computer into thinking it is consuming less air than it is, resulting in a lean condition. Your computer corrects this by adding more fuel and effectively reducing your fuel economy and overall performance. It will contaminate the MAF sensor as well. It truly is nothing more than a good looking waste of money. Good luck, have fun and buy blue baby!

So your saying the best way to prevent the plug tip breaking off into the cylinder is to frequently take it out on the highway or at least run through the gears at wot to burn off any built up carbon?

That's basically correct. Carbon will build naturally but any method of prevention should be considered given the cost of cylinder head removal on a brand new car such as this. Allow your car to reach full operating temperature every time it is run. Do not frequently crowd the throttle in low gear and not give it a chance to rev. Stay out of high load, low RPM conditions as much as possible. Take it out and knock the cobwebs out of it every now and then, after all it is a sports car. Use reputable fuel. People under estimate the likelihood of getting bad gas. It happens much more often than you think, chances are you have been a victim and never even knew it. Use fuel from newer stations that do a lot of business. ONLY put 87 octane in your mustang unless it is supercharged. Higher octane fuel than is needed will facilitate carbon deposits. And, finally remove them (plugs) and clean/replace them every 10-15k miles. You will have to request the dealer do this (better in 3/36 than out of it) or buy a special socket to remove them) It may seem over zealous but I have seen many 5.4 3v's with 20k miles need both heads off. You can imagine how happy the guy at 37K miles is! BTW, I forgot to mention that you already have the updated fuel tank if your car was build 5/05 or sooner.

In your opinion its better to have the dealership pull and clean the plugs?
How much would they charge for this if i do it yearly?
Whats standard shop rate / time to re-re 8 plugs?

TIA

A dealer that knows what they are doing, yes. More often than not the dealer only takes precautionary meausures after one has begun to break off. If you buy the socket youreself, just allow a really good penetrant like (buy this or don't attempt it) KROIL also known as aerokroil. or PB blaster. Break them loose with a 1/8 turn and fill up the plug wells about 1/3 of the way. let it sit until the penetrant has done it's job. Like I said, this does not seem to be a problem with the 4.6 3v as of yet, but considering it is identical in design as the truck engine that does have this problem, it is very likely to be in the future.

ORIGINAL: gtmachine


So your saying the best way to prevent the plug tip breaking off into the cylinder is to frequently take it out on the highway or at least run through the gears at wot to burn off any built up carbon?


No problem for the majority of Mustang owners! :D

Every once in a while the gas pump won't start filling the car or it only fills it partly and cuts off not to let you pump more gas. I told my hubby to try the upside down pump handle deal when that happens and it will fill it completely. He didn't know about that trick and the problem happened to him just this past week when he tried filling the car up. It works everytime for me when I get the pump problem and that doesn't happen often at all. I have an 05 convert V6. I can honestly say I've had to turn the handle upside down probably 3 times in the 13,000 miles the car has. I know my hubby hasn't done it yet because he didn't know about that trick. He told me he filled the car just last week only to find when he drove away that the car was really only 3/4's full. He thought we had a weird problem that just developed.


What is the MAF sensor? My hubby has been complaining the car isn't doing as good gas milage wise at it first did. Now you have me wondering if the K&N filter he put in there is the culprit! Will just switching back to the Mustang's stock air filter correct this problem?

I'm confused about the K&N filter comment .... does this apply to all CAI's ... I just happen to the have a K&N CAI ... or are you talking about the K&N standard replacement filters for the factory airbox?

Your entire air induction system is designed around the MAF (Mass Air Flow sensor). This sensor measures the ammount of air the engine takes in and is the most influential input to the cars computer when it comes to fuel regulation. It's accuracy is extremely dependent on the poper location of the sensor and the diameter/shape of the intake tubing. This engine will not benefit from a more streamline intake system as the originial is not restrictive (only much more quiet than an aftermarket). Likely the K&N filter is the source of your fuel economy reduction. You want the best fuel economy and the least ammount of fueling issues? Stick with the stock induction. Any modification to the inlet system runs a high risk of fueling issues due to MAF contamination. The benefits attainable with 99% of the aftermarket intake systems are greatly outweighed by the risk of issues. BTW, dealers will likely not warrant MAF replacement if an aftermarket air filter is found.

What do you say to the folks who have verified on a Dyno that just replacing the stock intake with a CAI shows 7 RWHP gains? Again ... this is not seat of pants stuff ... but actual dyno runs ...

Thanks you shanners for the info...my hubby thought it was the way I drove or something I did that lowered the gas milage. Now it looks like its what HE did changing to the K&N air filter! Sounds like we need to reset the ECU if he goes back to stock to get it to read the MAF sensor properly?

A KAM reset (disconnecting the battery for about 20 min) will reset any adaptive fuel stratagies learned but will require some drive time to reset and adapt to the changes. To the people with dyno sheets - there are variables such as dyno calibration, temperature changes, ambient conditions, and so forth that will arguably affect the output of the engine between runs. I have never seen a series of dyno runs without any changes to the engine that yeilded identical results. Besides, is 7hp something that you can notice? Likely not. Is it worth the potential drawbacks? Well, I suppose that answer lies withing the eye of the owner/check writer.

How passionate are you about using 87 octane fuel for a stock GT ?
I have been putting 93 in my car, which is stock... so you're saying I am just pissing away money and possibly LOSING fuel efficiency?

Thanks for your knowledge.

the gas thing is interesting, and i have experinced it as well, i have a later model 06 v6.

i was wondering if the afforementioned things in this thread whould apply to a v6 as well.

my only mod is a dual magnaflow exhaust for the moment.

also i do have a tendencay to run her on the highway every so often to to open her up throttle wise as i live in l.a. and spend a lot of time in traffic , rarely going into 4th gear.

i would say on average i try to put about 100 to 200 highwaymiles on her every four weeks or so......i do this by going on a highway cruise.

is this good or bad in relation to the things being discussed here.

thanks


phunnyguy

ORIGINAL: Larmo
How passionate are you about using 87 octane fuel for a stock GT ?
I have been putting 93 in my car, which is stock... so you're saying I am just pissing away money and possibly LOSING fuel efficiency?

Thanks for your knowledge.

Yes you are wasting money, it is a well known fact and has been discussed numerous times here. Octane is a measurement of how resistant the fuel is to burning. The higher the number the more resistant to burning, by running 93 octane in a stock car you are loosing efficency because the fuel is still burning during the exhaust cycle. The only reason to run higher octane is if you higher cylinder pressures (from forced induction) or a tune that advances timing to take advantage of the higher octane.

I re-read your first post ..... and have to disagree or perhaps you made a typo ...

A CAI should be letting MORE air into your engine ... your MAF will sense this as a LEAN condition (the O2 sensors should also see a lean condition) and add more fuel to get the mixture correct. Less air, as you stated above, would be a rich condition ...

I also never understood the theory that a CAI or free-flow exhaust would result in better gas mileage ... it makes no sense whatsover ... the more air in and out of your engine means more fuel to keep the mix correct. More air/fuel means more power ... but of course gas mileage suffers ...

Your logic is good, but the miscalculation is that the pcm underestimates the airflow. It sees (arbitrary #) 10 parts of air coming in and fuels accordingly. The oxygen sensors then see the presence of unburned oxygen. This means that the pcm did not provide enough fuel for the actual ammount of air that entered the engine, hence making the miscalulation on the lesser end. Not so much a matter of how much air is actually going in, rather how much the PCM thinks is going in. And your theory of less restriction actually decreasing the fuel economy is correct. More air in = more fuel needed. However, in some cases where this actually improves the power the engine makes it could increase overall fuel economy because the engine is not trying as hard to pull the same ammount of load. This benefit/drawback is negligible at best. Typically one will never know the difference. I can provide a list longer than my first post of commonly overlooked things that will have more affect on fuel economy than the intake/exhaust system. That is for another day :).
May I add that this group of owners seems to be more receptive to truth than speculation in respect to the 5.0 community. I admire your interest!

How could we argue with "a guy who knows" ?? :):)

Thanks for your insight, shaners.

Shaner, First off thanks for sharing the infomation.

What do you know about the rear end noise that comes after driving the vehicle for a while then taking sharp turns? I believe thre is a TSB for this already (clutch pack replacement?). My 2006 GT (don't know the build date though) does this, I brought it in to a dealer near me but they couldn't replicate the noise. I explained that it occurs after drving the vehicle for a while. I guess the problem is that I don't know exactly how long it should be driven before the noise comes so they didn't want to waste their time waiting for the noise to come. Bottom line is that they couldn't replicate it so they didn't do anything. I was told to bring it back if it gets worse.

They also confirmed what you mentioned about the transmission noise. I told them that the transmission makes a "clunking" noise when shifting (or down shifting) under low RPM. They told me that this is normal (directly coming from Ford).

Thank in advance

ORIGINAL: shaners90lxhatch
Besides, is 7hp something that you can notice?


7 all by itself? Probably not, or very little. But 7 here, 8 there, 6 over there... it will all add up. Just like weight reduction. You think removing 20 pounds in one area alone will make you run drastically better on the track? No... but the cumulative weight reduction from numerous areas will.


*edit*

But my previous statement does go exclusively for hp/tq on the track, faster times.

When it comes to fuel economy I think people are over paranoid. A person will sell a $21K mustang for a $23K Prius. Little problem. You spent $2K for the car, and it has twice the parts to break down. Toyota parts are not as cheap as Ford parts, period. Goes same for Honda, Mistubishi, etc. So in order to save 2 whole dollars at the gas station somebody is willing to spend thousands. Long term included. Make sense? Of course not! But many people seem unable to grasp that, namely those from San Fransisco. Damn hippies.

Shanners, thanks for your knowledge.
For the love of God, do you kow how to fix the rattle in the dash?
Is it something I can fix myself?

You are referring to TSB 06-19-02. There is a revised clutch pack that is designed to eliminate this noise. Orignially the friction material on the clutch packs were made of a paper material. This was revised to a carbon fiber friction, which eventually began to make noise (that the tsb describes). Now they are back to paper and the new part number is provided in the above TSB. It has been successful. Best advice, drive the car for some time prior to your dealer visit and express the importance that it is test driven soon after arrival. Your dealer will not drive too long during a test drive as the tech is not paid to drive your car around. He is effectively working for nothing during the test drive and if he has a family to feed, will not drive it for hours should that be needed.;)

This sounds like advise my father gave me when I got my first car, a 1973 Buick Regal (in 1977). Please correct me if I am wrong but most of these these tips from "a guy who really knows" don't really apply to today's cars. Also, there is some lack of information or vagueness regarding the source of these statements.

I think with today's cars if you follow the manual and service guide, you should not be too concerned about these things unless there is a TSB that applies or you experience a specific problem.

Just my 2 cents.

dash rattles are not my thing..... but I can look into it for you. The 06 i just had over the weekend was quiet as a church mouse but I will do a little research..... Meph, I agree. Relativity is not just for physicists. It applies to common sense as well. The premise to better fuel economy is reduce our dependency on foreign oil. The slack in your pocket book is a byproduct, as crappy as that sounds. Ethanol fuel and gas/ethanol hybrids are the best bet at this point in our struggle. The only benefit ethanol has is it's ability to be replentished. Stoichiometry is nearly half that of gasoline, so your mileage is nearly cut in half. It requires more heat engergy to produce a gallon of ethanol than you can get out of it. It has virtually no emission benefits. WE can make more, that is the key. God, I was born 30 years too late. At 25 I want the loudest, nastiest, gas guzzling hunk of muscle you can find. At 25 I can't make enough money or muster enough disregard to the environment to own one. (plus the 70's had the best rock as well.) Anyone figures out how to reverse time, be sure to let me know [&:]

With all due respect stanger, my sources are solid as the ground you stand on. I work for Ford and give dealership technicians advice on how to repair your car. I decided to share some of that info with you "laymen" against my better judgement. (I don't want to loose this job). They call me when nobody at the dealer can figure out how to fix your car. I will gladly consider any proof you can provide that would contradict my statements.

ORIGINAL: shaners90lxhatch

With all due respect stanger, my sources are solid as the ground you stand on. I work for Ford and give dealership technicians advice on how to repair your car. I decided to share some of that info with you "laymen" against my better judgement. (I don't want to loose this job). They call me when nobody at the dealer can figure out how to fix your car. I will gladly consider any proof you can provide that would contradict my statements.


Since you are the Ford "Go To Guy" ... if a technician see's a Cold Air Intake on a vehicle are they gonna try to blame it on the intake or possibly deny warranty coverage for engine issues?

As far as the K&N air filter statement goes I was assuming you meant the CAI's that don't require a retune like the K&N or Airraid, atleast one of those actually comes with a new MAF that tricks the computer I think. As far as the fuel pump goes do you know if my 06 built in May of 06 has a revised fuel pump? I've not really experienced any symptoms, but I rarely cruise for long periods and then lay the hammer down.

I've never experienced the gas tank problem either, but I can tell you that when the pump clicks off it means that tank is F*cking full and if you try and top it off it will spill out!

Unless the filter element is packed full of crap, they typically cannot directly attribute engine failure to an intake modification. There are exceptions to everything in life and this is no exception....... if that makes sense.....lol....

Airaid is one of our most notorious lean contributors. They are all junk. ANY aftermarket system will change the characteristics of aiflow and even if the MAF is recalibrated to compensate for this, it will still increase the margin of error. Bottom line, if your computer can't compensate for the change - you will see a check engine light or have drive symptoms. Otherwise if all seems well you may only end up with a slight reduction in fuel economy.

All 2005-2006 mustangs apply to tsb in previous post. If you don't have the issue - you don't need the pump. If your mustang takes fuel normally, you got off good. Play lottery more often :)

Thanks shaners ...

Cool info shaners!!

But I have a few questions. What about Steeda, C&L, and JLT CAI's. The big performers in that market. I saw a huge driving performance when I had my car dyno tuned with my JLT II on (to the likes of 309rwhp on a mustang dyno w/ 91octane, 70 degree temp). I realize I'm taking risks with the whole warranty thing but damn it is hard to pass up the performance gains. My milage has stayed status quo maybe even gained.

Oh, I have no problem nocking the cobwebs off my 06'!!!:D

I don't think you fully understand what goes into a CAI plus tuner from brenspeed or evo performance, they are customizing the A/F mixture and timing at difference rpms to improve performance, it reprograms the computer. You talk like they are just throwing a high flow filter on it. To my knowledge no recalibration of the MAF is done using a custom tune, but i'm not sure. The intakes from airaid and k&n are different and actually trick the computer. I had no loss in fuel economy with my JLT intake and 91 octane tune.

ORIGINAL: shaners90lxhatch

All 2005-2006 mustangs apply to tsb in previous post. If you don't have the issue - you don't need the pump. If your mustang takes fuel normally, you got off good. Play lottery more often :)


This is the stuff I can't swallow. So you're saying that some fuel pumps have this problem and others don't? So sloppy quality control on the part of the fuel pump manufacturer? The same goes for the gas filling problem, i wonder if someone who has the pump shutting off problem would have the same probably at my gas station? I always go to the same Amoco station and never had a problem. Now my wifes car is notorious for causing the pump to shut off every 2 seconds, you have to ease into full speed pumping with her car or it will never work.

Same here, the difference was night and day according to my ASS dyno!
ORIGINAL: PDXStangDude

Cool info shaners!!

But I have a few questions. What about Steeda, C&L, and JLT CAI's. The big performers in that market. I saw a huge driving performance when I had my car dyno tuned with my JLT II on (to the likes of 309rwhp on a mustang dyno w/ 91octane, 70 degree temp). I realize I'm taking risks with the whole warranty thing but damn it is hard to pass up the performance gains. My milage has stayed status quo maybe even gained.

Oh, I have no problem nocking the cobwebs off my 06'!!!:D

ORIGINAL: shaners90lxhatch

All 2005-2006 mustangs apply to tsb in previous post. If you don't have the issue - you don't need the pump. If your mustang takes fuel normally, you got off good. Play lottery more often :)


This is the stuff I can't swallow. So you're saying that some fuel pumps have this problem and others don't? So sloppy quality control on the part of the fuel pump manufacturer? The same goes for the gas filling problem, i wonder if someone who has the pump shutting off problem would have the same probably at my gas station? I always go to the same Amoco station and never had a problem. Now my wifes car is notorious for causing the pump to shut off every 2 seconds, you have to ease into full speed pumping with her car or it will never work.


[/quote]

Or are you saying they have more than one supplier for the fuel pumps? So some cars get pump A and some pump B, but both pumps are almost identical in manufacturing?

Lucky me, I got pump A. The good pump :)

And for any warranty issue is concerned, you have the law on your side. The MM Act protects you.

ORIGINAL: shaners90lxhatch

You are referring to TSB 06-19-02. There is a revised clutch pack that is designed to eliminate this noise..............


Ok, I think I'll make an appointment for a late afternoon with the service advisor, go driving around until the noise comes then have them get in the car for a test drive. I understand that the service department can't just randomly perform the TSB if the sympton is not there but I know that the noise is there I just have to let them hear it. Should I just go ahead and mention the TSB to them? While making the appointment or during the ride along?

Situations such as this are why I am hesitant to give you information such as this. I do not want to "bad mouth" my employer and am simply stating the facts as I am told them. In fact, I have to be extremely carefull what information I disclose as there is a certain ammount of confidentiality involved in what I do. All of the pumps operate in the exact same manner. It is purely a matter of chance in regards to whether or not the cavitation accumulates into one big bubble. Don't worry about it if you don't have the problem. I think you are correct that different fuel stations will affect the slow fill. Many variables that contribute to the condition, it is not solely based on the design of the fuel tank crossover tube. Please take all a say for what it is worth. I am not the guy that designs these systems or the guy that is paid to correct their imperfections. A recall would support any issues severe enough to reduce the safety, longevity or overall performance of your vehicle.

Someone earlier tried to clarify if you were referring to a K&N air filter used on a CAI or if in fact a standard, drop-in replacement K&N air filter would cause the lean mix / less fuel efficiency situation?

I'm using just a drop-in K&N air filter. I did notice a very, very slight better sound and engine responsiveness when (and since) I put it in. I do not monitor my fuel usage too closely, but I do not seem to be losing fuel economy... at least as far as I can tell.

Bottom line... Will a K&N drop-in filter (not with a CAI) alone eventually cause more problems that it's worth? Or were you primarily referring to a CAI?

Thanks if you can answer this one too.... and thanks for all the info! I had my fuel pump replace under TSB 06-9-9 as I was clearly experiencing hesitation on acceleratoin after long cruises... and I drive many a long cruise in my early build '06 V6.

I suspect the loss in fuel economy is simply related to....you added a hot rod part (CAI) and you drive the car harder. Also..more air ingested always means more fuel consumed. My GT is stock . If I drive it around town at 60 all day I get great mileage for a 300 hp V8. But who in there right mind can buy a Red Fire GT vert and drive 60 all day? All I know is my 97 F 150 4.6 has 155,000 miles on it and I've changed the plugs once( at 112,000). They came out without any trouble. You just need to buy the correct socket and have the extensions that lock the socket. The hardest part of the job was disconnecting all the spark plug wire connectors. There must have been a set every three inches. Finally, I'd be willing to bet that most of the K&N CAI issues are the result of improper installation. Failure to hook up or place the MAF sensor in the proper location will cause an "engine failure" on any model Ford makes. Just replacing the air filter can produce the same engine warning.

drop in filters in my mind are worse than the whole CAI setup. Wet filters and MAF sensors are a bad combination any way you slice it. I don't care what anyone else tells you, or if you don't oil it liberally or whatever. BAD BAD BAD. Use at your own risk. The plugs in the 3v is completely different from any 2v out there. Your 97 has a conventional plug with platinum tips being the only unique characteristic. Only the 04 and up owners have to worry about the breakage issue.

Interesting stuff.

So the plugs are I assume "projected tip" that extend deep into the combustion chamber? If so I have a few questions and although I realise you are saying these arent "conventional plugs" and I have never seen the new 4.6 plugs I would think that heat is heat. Anyway if the plug prohects further into the chamber wouldnt this by inherent design REDUCE teh chances of deposits by exposing the the tip to more of the combustion event for more complete burn-and I assume again that this is in fact the reason for that design. That being said is the problem from the plug being exposed to the heat itself and NOT the bbuildup of deposits? I hae had a few perfromance motors that I used projector tip plugs; i.e., HOT plugs and never heard of this breaking off you describe. Similarly I have used colder plugs in engines to prevent detonation run more timing etc etc, wich CAN cause more carbon deposits to build up but have never experienced this breaking off of the plug tip from deposits? Do you have a picture of the new plugs? I'll check out ebay there are usually pics of anything there. So is a solution to this breaking off problem a colder plug? are colder plugs even availabe? But from what I understand about what you are saying is that it is the carbon buildup that causes them to break off? This just seems really weird since they are extended tip and by design extended tip usually resist depostits at the expense of detonation resistance.

OK here is a pic of the plug(link). WOW those suckers must run HOT!! Are you saying that the entire metal extesion breaks off?? YIKES

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/2005-2006-05-06-Ford-Mustang-GT-colder-spark-plug-4-6_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ33693QQihZ015QQitemZ2 50016147488QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWDVW

The "shank" of the plug is not integral to the body of the plug. It is crimped on and is made of a completely different alloy. The two cannot be welded together. Carbon builds up between the outer diameter of the plug shank and the inner diameter of the cylinder head bore that the plug lies in. This carbon not only prevents the plug from being turned, but also likes to wedge the shank of the plug in there. So, you can typically get about 1/4 turn out of the plug before it breaks. If the porcelain breaks off with the shank, head removal is necessary as tapping it down far enough to thread the removal tool will put small porcelain particulates in the cylinder and score the wall. If the porcelain does not break off, the removal tool will cut threads into the inner diameter of the shank and extract like using a puller to remove a pulley. The PZT1FF4 is the plug for the mustang and explorer. The PZT2FF4 is identical in design, but has a hotter heat range and was originally used in the 5.4 3v. This made the engine spark knock excessively so has recently been traded for the 1F. The 1f is now standard for the 4.6 and 5.4 3v engines. The 2F plug has been made obsolete and has been installed since I believe April of 05 builds to current. Heat range does not seem to have much affect on failure rate...... but engineers are still working on prevention.

Wow, those are some funky plugs [&:] Say the shank does get wedged in with carbon. Will slight tapping of the plug prior to full turning, turning and tightning of the plug a few times by 1/4 turns, or penetrating fluid help to break up the carbon enough to remove the plug without breaking it? At least so you can get it out and replace it with a new one?

shaners this is awesome and most appreciated. Just a few questions;

1. When you refer to CAI's are you including C&L, JLT, etc that came with a custom tune?

2. Where do you stand on underdrive pulleys?

Thanks for the info.

Bottom line, he's been there, seen it, so I for one will heed some front line info, thanks shaner

Shaners - appreciate the information.

Here's my question. I have a new 07 GT.

#1 Does a 2007 GT have throttle lag and a lag in idle run down? The consensus here is that it does, although others have suggested that this has been corrected from earlier models. My vehicle seems like it has a lag.

#2 What is your suggestion as what to do about it? Of course we are all concerned with warranty issues, but what is the best way to unleash resonably safe horsepower?

#3 And finally can you give us any insight into Saleen / Roush vehicles that are supercharged? Yeah they are fast, but do they hold up with a stock shortblock?

For my 2 cents, I am / was contemplating a C&L CAI with custom tune or alternatively getting a supercharger. Or are you really saying that since the risk exceeds the benefit (your words I believe) that these powerplants are not really built for heavy tweaking?

Thanks in advance.

Okay...

1) Yes they do. Evey different calibration will have slightly different ETC characteristics but the main operation remains the same. The long dashpot with the 5 speed cars is actually put there on purpose. Wonder why this is the easiest car in the world to lean a stick? The PCM will hold the RPM's close to the shift point momentarily so that (under a refined method of clutch use) the shift is more seemless. This reduces drivetrain stress and actually improves fuel economy and the life of the whole meat & potatos. This is commonly refered to as "Dashpot" and is incorporated to conventional IAC driven throttle bodies of the recent past. The lack of initial respone, unfortunately is a byproduct of all the thinking involved in the system. However, it really only hinders your ability to show off and "abuse" the car for fun. It's a bummer but a side affect nonetheless. Ford's ETC is not a "pedal follower" type system similar to those used by german and japanese manufacturers. Ours is a "torque-based demand" that basically turns your accel pedal into torque switch that tells the pcm to give you "X" ammount of total engine torque and the PCM will do so regardless of whether or not that means open the throttle 100%

2) Nothing. Wait until your warranty is up, take care of it in the meantime and save your money for awesome mods that won't piss off the dealer and/or manufacturer

3) Saleen and Roush are like a really rich guy that buys our cars and has his will with them. Only the stage 3 saleen has powertrain mods and saleen takes full responsibility to any damage in any way attributable to the failure (just like you would). Roush is a bit different and like to use their own calibrations before bolt ons but they have no powertrain warranty either.

Refer to #2 on any modification ideally. Baby the thing and have it completely taken care of until about three thousand miles after your warranty expires (dealers/manufacturers will work with you especially if you bring them good biz like lubes and tires and tune ups that you pay for). Then have at it. You know your car by now. You have full responsibility for it and made a few friends and good contacts along the way. Build the car of your dreams and who knows, maybe people will pay you for having it. [8D]

ORIGINAL: shaners90lxhatch

drop in filters in my mind are worse than the whole CAI setup. Wet filters and MAF sensors are a bad combination any way you slice it. I don't care what anyone else tells you, or if you don't oil it liberally or whatever. BAD BAD BAD. Use at your own risk. The plugs in the 3v is completely different from any 2v out there. Your 97 has a conventional plug with platinum tips being the only unique characteristic. Only the 04 and up owners have to worry about the breakage issue.


I forgot about these K&N drop-ins as being "wet" with the oil they require. I think I will get an OEM or Motorcraft filter and just change those out a bit more frequently than ordinary due to my frequent driving. I certainly don't want to screw up my MAF sensor. I really thought the K&N drop-in filter was a very good thing to do, but I can see the problem here.

I've driven with the K&N drop-in filter about 6k miles now.... would it be advisable to do a reset (disconnect battery for ~20 mins) after popping back in a standard filter?

Good info ... I recall the dashpots on early carbureted Fords .... electontric do-hickey to slowly drop the engine back down to idle speed when you abruptly let off the accellerator .... however, unlike electronic ignition ... mechanical dashpots did not affect initial throttle response ...

ORIGINAL: shaners90lxhatch

3) Saleen and Roush are like a really rich guy that buys our cars and has his will with them. Only the stage 3 saleen has powertrain mods and saleen takes full responsibility to any damage in any way attributable to the failure (just like you would). Roush is a bit different and like to use their own calibrations before bolt ons but they have no powertrain warranty either.



It's Roush that has the warranty.

If you live in a state that requires emissions testing, I would advise against performing a KAM reset. This will require the PCM to reurn all the required emissions testing (OBDII drivecycle) and it can sometimes be very picky because the perameters needed to initiate the tests is specific to rather tight ranges and can be a pain in the arse.

Your computer will eventually relearn the way in needs to run best. You may experience strange characteristics for a day or two (and that is absolute worst case scenario). If the light did not come on after installation, likely the correction needed to return to normality will be minor as well. The PCM is pretty good at this and designed to do so in addition to being the reason it runs so good at any altitude, in any condition, under all circumstances.

WOW. you guys are making me work when I am not at work! LOL. I am happy to help.. They don't pay me much in money but the reward of helping can be sweet. I just wish it could pay of my fox body [&:]

ORIGINAL: shaners90lxhatch
WOW. you guys are making me work when I am not at work! LOL. I am happy to help.. They don't pay me much in money but the reward of helping can be sweet. I just wish it could pay of my fox body [&:]

I've been keeping an eye on this thread for the past couple days and I think I can speak for many of us when I offer many thanks for sharing your knowledge with us.

About the spark plug problems on the 5.4L 3v trucks. I read the plugs for the trucks are 1 heat range hotter than our mustangs, does that make a difference?

Also has there been any plugs that have broke off on a mustang?

Shaners,

Do you have time for another question?

You mentioned in one of your earlier post in this thread: "PCM programs are getting easier to identify and will cause problems as well." Does this mean that having "had" a tune in the PCM is detectable by the dealer even though you put the stock tune back in before going to the dealer for service? I understand from reading many threads that a P1000 code is thrown, but is there more? Any input on this issue would be appreciated.

I have been on the fence about getting a tune because of warranty concerns.

Thanks.

Thank you to all for being patient and providing good questions. You know, when I graduated high school in 2000 I could barely change oil and a tire and had not detailed concept of how an engine is managed. I never worked at a dealer or a heavy repair shop. Just a few years at a parts store and 4 years of school and lab/side work. Never was a fan of fords, mustangs were always different in my mind but never floated my boat. Now I can diagnose virtually any driveability issue with a minimal ammount of info especially fords. I own a 99 taurus and a 90 mustang (toy) and have a completely new respect for Ford as a company; and the Mustang as a classic american performance car. The mustang crowd is like no other and I am now proud to be a mustang enthusiast as well as a contributing factor in bringing American manufacturers back to the top of the industry. People like you guys are why Ford will eventually sell one out of every three cars sold in this country again.

I walk a thin line explaining this to you, so I hope it is taken with consideration. Not all programs are detectable. I don't know which ones and wouldn't tell you if I did :) The dealer has the ability (and the desire if the program makes diagnosis of your problem more difficult) to reset the calibration if needed. It is actually quite easy and almost standard practice upon your visit as it may help resolve other issues the manufacturer has been working on. When this happens, the tune you paid for is bye bye and you paid for temporary "improvement". I advise against aftermarket calibrations until your warranty is up as it will likely create more problems (in regards to down-time and repeated repair attempts) than it will resolve. After that, you are on your own dealing with the consequences of such actions.

What district are you in?
I had a "field service rep" come out and look at my car and just looked like an idiot. Yeah, he said that blue smoke pouring out of my engine when I first start it up was normal and flagged my VIN so that if it ever smoked again, then he said it was normal... Thanks alot bra!!
Turns out he was WRONG!!!!! Oh yea, WRONG!!! There was a problem and it hasn't smoked since. It started at 2200 miles and stopped when I fixed it, oh yeah, I forgot to tell you, I use to work for Ford too and I'm a mechanical engineer. That is one of the many reasons that I will NOT buy another Ford again, Ford simply doesn't care about the customer.... to frekin lazy to look for the problem, but would rather hook a stupid NGS to it and see if it says anything. Yeah, thanks for your advice!
ORIGINAL: shaners90lxhatch

With all due respect stanger, my sources are solid as the ground you stand on. I work for Ford and give dealership technicians advice on how to repair your car. I decided to share some of that info with you "laymen" against my better judgement. (I don't want to loose this job). They call me when nobody at the dealer can figure out how to fix your car. I will gladly consider any proof you can provide that would contradict my statements.

Interesting stuff, thanks for the information. I'll be swapping out my plugs every 15k.

First off, thanks for sharing your knowledge and time.

Regarding PCM tune, from your reply, it sounds like some tunes are detectable, even if the vehicle has been reflashed to stock by the owner before bringing it in - correct? Does driving for 50-100 miles after flashing to stock and/or disconnecting the battery make any difference in detectability? Also, in your experience, does Ford often deny warranty claims solely on the presence of a tune?

I have a tune now - only had it for about 1000 miles. If I flash back to stock now, then develop engine problems 10,000 miles later, will Ford: a) still be able to detect my previous tune, and b) deny warranty work because of it?

If you'd rather not post your answer publicly, feel free to pm.

TIA.

Thank you Shaners for your info. Hubby took the K&N out and put the stock back in to see if it improves the gas milage. Didn't reset the ECU as he said we have something simular on our 04 motorcycle. Had a dead battery with the bike and the ECU reset itself and caused milage to drop alot until it "relearned" things and then the gas milage picked up on the bike after so many miles. So will be watching closely to see if we get back the gas milage we were getting early on.


I wonder if your the guy they called when my trunk light wasn't working and it turned out the light bulb was okay. It was the ECU/smart moduale that was malfunctioning! When they got the new one in they were really checking out the parts number on it as it wasn't the same as the original and someone on this forum said they had changed the ECU thus the parts number change. I now have the only Mustang with daytime running lights in this area, they came on when they put in the new ECU and I told them not to turn them off as I liked having driving lights. From what info I gathered here in the forums it seems the Canadians Mustangs running lights are on because they are required there and most of us or all of us in the USA don't have em turned on when we got our new mustangs. Any comments about daytime running lights? Or was it this particular new ECU I got had that feature and not the original ECU that was in my 05?

I am sorry for your bad experience. It really does happen with all manufacturers. Toyota is going through hard times with a four cylinder right now... All manufactuers have a certain ammount of oil consumption that they are willing to accept as characteristic. Currently, Ford's is up to and including 1 quart of consumption for every 1500 miles. There are many different opinions regarding the acceptability of specs like this as people interpret oil consumption as a sign of damage and an indication of difficiency. In reality all internal combustion engines burn and consume oil. It is one of the many flaws and drawbacks of the beast. In the best case the consumption is so small that it is undetectable on the dipstick as well as to the emissions guy. If oil consumption where such an issue, there would be more accurate methods of oil level measurement. The manufacturer sets the standards on everything else about your vehicle, fluid usage is no acception. In addition, if the vehicle smoking on startup you are refering to is a 4.6L 4v, 4.6L 4v s/c, a 5.0L, a 5.8L, a 6.8L, (and several others that I cannot recall becuase hey, im not the know all be all of ford) have forged pistons. The pistons have to reach high temperature to make the best seal. Turns out this seal when hot is not only more accomodating to the whole combustion thing but gives the piston strength and therefore an edge on cast competitors. Now, if it was a 4.6 2v in like a crown vic, grand marq, town car, explorer or F, it is well known that there were issues with oil consumption years ago and it isn't something they deal with today. I can't defend all actions of any business or organization, for I even regret some of my own. They are run by people and they make mistakes like people do. But in most cases one cannot appreciate the essence of the vehicle they own, unless they appreciate and understand the resources needed to create it. Even when you want to cuss at the engineer that made something impossible to access or notorious to fail. After all, if he could appreciate it, he did the best he could with what he had.
seriously, I am not usually this long winded. I think I have now put more posts on a thread that I don't belong to than I have to the one I do belong to! Its a shame that I know more about the new mustang than I do my own 1990. [&o]

Great reading! My take-away is to buy the lower-octane fuel for my 2007 GT with 2,000 miles.

i dont agree abotu the air filter man, everyone i have talked to says k and n is up there, top of the line with everyone else

ORIGINAL: dmhines

I re-read your first post ..... and have to disagree or perhaps you made a typo ...

A CAI should be letting MORE air into your engine ... your MAF will sense this as a LEAN condition (the O2 sensors should also see a lean condition) and add more fuel to get the mixture correct. Less air, as you stated above, would be a rich condition ...

I also never understood the theory that a CAI or free-flow exhaust would result in better gas mileage ... it makes no sense whatsover ... the more air in and out of your engine means more fuel to keep the mix correct. More air/fuel means more power ... but of course gas mileage suffers ...

yes but believe me, a cai WILL increase your mpg...More air means BETTER combustion resulting in better fuel economy..It makes your gas more efficient.

ORIGINAL: shaners90lxhatch

2) Nothing. Wait until your warranty is up, take care of it in the meantime and save your money for awesome mods that won't piss off the dealer and/or manufacturer



I disagree with your assessment. Essentially you are suggesting that someone like me who purchases the vehicle intending it to be a low milage driver should wait 5 years before doing anything. [I have an 07 with the 5 yr. / 60,000 mile power train warranty.]

That's ridiculous. I purchased the vehicle to drive; not admire. Mustang buyers who purchased the vehicle simply because they think it is cute most likely aren't reading this forum. Members here for the most part are attempting to maximize their driving experience (read: performance experience).

It really comes down to a simple question. Either the stock powerplant is strong enough in design and manufacture to accept moderate-to-aggressive modifications or it's not. Your advice to do nothing suggests that it is not; or that you are simply reciting Ford mandra in this regard.

I think your knowledge is commendable and far exceeds mine. And my reply here is in no way meant to be disrepectful. But I do think that some of the textbook thinking that you have learned in a short time (2 to 3 years out of college) - and conveyed herein - needs to be balanced by other members who have real world modification experience with Ford products. I would certainly like to hear from others - like performance company employees or owners - who has actually modified Ford engines and has witnessed their performance over time. I am thinking that they might have some other thoughts.

Thanks for your thoughts and your time. It's appreciated.

ORIGINAL: mail906
It really comes down to a simple question. Either the stock powerplant is strong enough in design and manufacture to accept moderate-to-aggressive modifications or it's not. Your advice to do nothing suggests that it is not; or that you are simply reciting Ford mandra in this regard.

I don't think it's that simple. Certainly there are mods that the stock engine and drivetrain can handle. There are others that are qusetionable. And still others with a high probability of causing probs. Point is - Ford didn't test all these mods on this car before selling it, and as such cannot claim with any reasonable certainty which mods are okay and which aren't. And from a busines standpoint - you can't warrant a product, ANY product, that has been altered form it's original design, for the exact reasons I stated above. As long as the company, in this case Ford, makes that clear, then the buyer is aware that the mods are done at their own risk. I think shaners90lxhatch's post was intended from that point of view - warranty concerns, and he's right. The best way to insure your warranty coverage is not to mod it until the warranty is up. Whether the car can handle the mods is a different question.

ORIGINAL: spuddogg


ORIGINAL: shaners90lxhatch
WOW. you guys are making me work when I am not at work! LOL. I am happy to help.. They don't pay me much in money but the reward of helping can be sweet. I just wish it could pay of my fox body [&:]

I've been keeping an eye on this thread for the past couple days and I think I can speak for many of us when I offer many thanks for sharing your knowledge with us.




Ditto me! Just reading and learning and appreciating every single email Shaners takes the time to respond with. Right or wrong, trustworthy or not, black or white, doesn't matter -- he's voluntarily trying to help us all with a little education and information about what is still a very new vehicle platform, and I think we all owe him gratitude for his efforts.

I applaud you Shaners!

Nick

ORIGINAL: vponymike6


ORIGINAL: dmhines

I re-read your first post ..... and have to disagree or perhaps you made a typo ...

A CAI should be letting MORE air into your engine ... your MAF will sense this as a LEAN condition (the O2 sensors should also see a lean condition) and add more fuel to get the mixture correct. Less air, as you stated above, would be a rich condition ...

I also never understood the theory that a CAI or free-flow exhaust would result in better gas mileage ... it makes no sense whatsover ... the more air in and out of your engine means more fuel to keep the mix correct. More air/fuel means more power ... but of course gas mileage suffers ...

yes but believe me, a cai WILL increase your mpg...More air means BETTER combustion resulting in better fuel economy..It makes your gas more efficient.


Uhh..More AIR means MORE fuel as well ;)

ORIGINAL: mail906


ORIGINAL: shaners90lxhatch

2) Nothing. Wait until your warranty is up, take care of it in the meantime and save your money for awesome mods that won't piss off the dealer and/or manufacturer



I disagree with your assessment. Essentially you are suggesting that someone like me who purchases the vehicle intending it to be a low milage driver should wait 5 years before doing anything. [I have an 07 with the 5 yr. / 60,000 mile power train warranty.]

That's ridiculous. I purchased the vehicle to drive; not admire. Mustang buyers who purchased the vehicle simply because they think it is cute most likely aren't reading this forum. Members here for the most part are attempting to maximize their driving experience (read: performance experience).

It really comes down to a simple question. Either the stock powerplant is strong enough in design and manufacture to accept moderate-to-aggressive modifications or it's not. Your advice to do nothing suggests that it is not; or that you are simply reciting Ford mandra in this regard.

I think your knowledge is commendable and far exceeds mine. And my reply here is in no way meant to be disrepectful. But I do think that some of the textbook thinking that you have learned in a short time (2 to 3 years out of college) - and conveyed herein - needs to be balanced by other members who have real world modification experience with Ford products. I would certainly like to hear from others - like performance company employees or owners - who has actually modified Ford engines and has witnessed their performance over time. I am thinking that they might have some other thoughts.

Thanks for your thoughts and your time. It's appreciated.


I find statements like this hard to swallow. To modify your vehicle is an 'At-your-own-risk' venture. Why should the dealer be liable for damage you or anyone else incurs on a modifcation?

That's like me saying well, sorry I backed into your stang you should fix it. My mistake but you fix it.

It boils down to, if your mod caused the failure, you don't have the warranty on that part because it is NOT OEM and has not been tested by the OEM to be safe/reliable/compatible. Basic warranty disclaimer has it in regular print. all the Manguss or Mongoose act or whatever states is that modification alone does not void warranty. The part must prove to be the source of hte failure.

In essense, the Tune is the Brain of the car. modify the tune/brain you change the way the car acts along with everything attached to it meaning all of the sensors etc. Those sensors dictated how the car runs. Lets say you tune the crap out of your motor and becuase of a really lean burn you burn a hole in piston...ford is responsible?? Yeah right...

ORIGINAL: Derf00

To modify your vehicle is an 'At-your-own-risk' venture.



Who ever said it wasn't?

That the whole point. The initial question dealt with the best way to go about unleashing horsepower? No one ever asked Ford to untake the associated responsibility.

And all we're taking about is the warranty and not pissing off the dealer ... bla ... bla ... bla ...

Sure if you make mods you take the risk. But is the powerplant so fragile that it's Russian roulette? Thanks the question.

I think not.

ORIGINAL: mail906


ORIGINAL: Derf00

To modify your vehicle is an 'At-your-own-risk' venture.



Who ever said it wasn't?

That the whole point. The initial question dealt with the best way to go about unleashing horsepower? No one ever asked Ford to untake the associated responsibility.

And all we're taking about is the warranty and not pissing off the dealer ... bla ... bla ... bla ...

Sure if you make mods you take the risk. But is the powerplant so fragile that it's Russian roulette? Thanks the question.

I think not.




Problem is you give someone an inch, they try to take a foot.
So let say Ford says okay..our blocks can handle 400 flywheel HP (up 100 from teh stock 300) and can take bla bla bla...then the car fails. That makes Ford liable then for saying "yes it's safe to run that hard" plus they get stuck with the bill.

So Ford, like every other manufacture tries to stick to the letter on their modifcations policy. Give an inch people will take a foot.

Here's a question. Lets say you put in performance heads on your stang and blow out a piston and mess up a head. Let's say Ford will fix your piston even though your part caused it by raising your compression too high. So now Ford shoudl also have to replace your aftermarket head? Woudl you be happy if they said we'll fix the piston but not replace the head or if we do it will be back to stock?

Probably not. Why even open that can of worms?

ORIGINAL: shaners90lxhatch

The dealer has the ability (and the desire if the program makes diagnosis of your problem more difficult) to reset the calibration if needed. It is actually quite easy and almost standard practice upon your visit as it may help resolve other issues the manufacturer has been working on. When this happens, the tune you paid for is bye bye and you paid for temporary "improvement". I advise against aftermarket calibrations until your warranty is up as it will likely create more problems (in regards to down-time and repeated repair attempts) than it will resolve. After that, you are on your own dealing with the consequences of such actions.


The tune is stored in the handheld tuner, so it can be reprogrammed as many times as you like. Changing tunes takes all of 3 minutes and that includes changing back to stock.

If anyone is worried about voiding your warranty by installing a CAI and tune, my advice is don't do it. No one from Ford is going to say yes or no we will or will not cover the repairs. I'm personally more worried about the idiotic TCS going haywire and breaking something every time I drive down a dirt road.

It's been a pleasure folks, I hope I have helped out in some way or another. I need to ask some questions of my own in the 5.0 threads and welcome questions you may have in the future. Best to catch me there or in a PM. I will reply at my earliest convenience and pretty much just specialize in driveability stuff but I ask for your patience as I sometimes find myself with not enough time in the day (dont we all!). Take care, all.

I appreciate some of the things you posted here but many of the things you said are not 100% accurate and ring of someone who has received most of their indoctrination from Ford... I see you are a young lad as you say you finished HS in 2000, well I graduated from HS in 1985 and graduated College in 1989 with a degree in Mechanical Engineering then went off and received my Masters in 1992...

I started tuning and modifying cars since the early 80 and have never stopped, the list is long…

While Ford as a manufacturer is trying to strike a balance of performance and reliability while containing cost and keeping the federal government happy with overall fuel economy standards; the aftermarket is not. If you want to buy a car drive it under warranty for as long as you can and think performance should take a back seat then yes some of this applies. If however you are interested in performance and don't mind some decrease in mileage than many of your statements do not apply. Obviously if you increase the ability of an engine to make power by improving air flow and then add more fuel with a correct tune, than you will burn more fuel. A good CAI and a tune which are really not mutually exclusive, (you need both to be running a correctly calibrated engine), can gain as much as 25 HP on these #V 4.6 engines... (There is a reason the GT500 was hit with a gas-guzzler tax…) FRPP themselves sell a CAI and tuner that provides a 20HP increase...

Not to overly simplify things but engines are air/fuel pumps, the more air fuel you can stuff in a cylinder during a power stroke and efficiently burn the more power you will make...

Yes, if you install an oiled filter in an engine that has been improperly oiled it will soil the MAF sensor and it will not read correctly, I have been discussing that for over 15 years with enthusiast on many forums with many different manufactures cars. A proper air filter on a properly maintained vehicle with the correct tune will make more power and in many cases run more efficiently under part throttle conditions...

I as well deal very closely with Ford and have access to your counter parts all over the country and have been doing so for a few more years then yourself. I can say that though you believe yourself to be knowledgeable you need a bit more experience out of the box before making blanket statements about particulars in regards to the theory and function of internal combustion engines...

A well designed CAI with a properly OILED filter and correct tune will make a better/higher performing engine that burns more fuel at WOT...;)

Oh, and all the other statements that you posted in regards to differential/transmission noise TSBs and such have all been posted and discussed here so many times I have lost count… Try the search function next time you visit…

cortc,

- so, what's YOUR opinion on the K&N drop-in filter?
- since you say you have access to some ford guys, what's their/your take on the "can a tune be detected" deal? maybe you could take a stab at answering my post ( below) to shaners90lxhatch:

Regarding PCM tune, from your reply, it sounds like some tunes are detectable, even if the vehicle has been reflashed to stock by the owner before bringing it in - correct? Does driving for 50-100 miles after flashing to stock and/or disconnecting the battery make any difference in detectability? Also, in your experience, does Ford often deny warranty claims solely on the presence of a tune?

I have a tune now - only had it for about 1000 miles. If I flash back to stock now, then develop engine problems 10,000 miles later, will Ford: a) still be able to detect my previous tune, and b) deny warranty work because of it?

TIA

ORIGINAL: wildabouthorses

Thanks you shanners for the info...my hubby thought it was the way I drove or something I did that lowered the gas milage. Now it looks like its what HE did changing to the K&N air filter! Sounds like we need to reset the ECU if he goes back to stock to get it to read the MAF sensor properly?


Thanks Shaners, it's always good to have input from your type of source.

One thing about the K&N air filter...I put one in about 10K miles ago and have noticed an increase in gas mileage. I went from averaging 19.x to 21.x+. I haven't noticed any drop in performance at all either. Could I still be hurting the engine?

Also, on the wot advice - definitely. I made a 3 hour trip to the shore a month or so ago. I probably averaged 80-85mph over the trip. After that the car seemed stronger. Maybe I cleaned out the cobwebs :)

I'll have to re-read all the posts, but are you saying a CAI is not really worth it, other than sounding louder than stock?

Clearly there is nothing wrong with a CAI as long as it is done properly. A CAI, tune, and x-pipe exhaust is how Shelby added 25hp to their GT-H and forthcoming Shelby GT.

"Shelby Automobiles, based in Las Vegas, begins with a stock Mustang GT and adds a Ford Racing Power Pack and Handling Pack to each car. The Power Pack consists of a 90-millimeter cold-air intake, reworked engine calibration, upgraded exhaust flow (via a new X-pipe) and a shorter rear axle ratio (3.55 versus the GT's 3.31). And while the rental GT-H comes in automatic form only, the Shelby GT can be had with a slushbox or a five-speed manual transmission featuring a Hurst short-throw shifter."

http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/Drives/FirstDrives/articleId=116496

ORIGINAL: timothyrw

Clearly there is nothing wrong with a CAI as long as it is done properly. A CAI, tune, and x-pipe exhaust is how Shelby added 25hp to their GT-H and forthcoming Shelby GT.

"Shelby Automobiles, based in Las Vegas, begins with a stock Mustang GT and adds a Ford Racing Power Pack and Handling Pack to each car. The Power Pack consists of a 90-millimeter cold-air intake, reworked engine calibration, upgraded exhaust flow (via a new X-pipe) and a shorter rear axle ratio (3.55 versus the GT's 3.31). And while the rental GT-H comes in automatic form only, the Shelby GT can be had with a slushbox or a five-speed manual transmission featuring a Hurst short-throw shifter."

http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/Drives/FirstDrives/articleId=116496



+1 on the CAI and exhaust..

JMO and only that..

Rex

Anyone out there have the FRPP?

I tried to convince myself not to post on this thread any more as it has gone on pages longer than I expected, but I feel the need to defend myself especially after the post by cortc. The only reason I mentioned CAI and wet filters to this crowd is becuase I know how popular they are and am sceptical of most of the percieved benefits. It will not void your warranty, it may increase performance and fuel economy but THE BENEFITS ARE LIKELY TO BE MARGINAL. If you think your car will be a completely different animal after that kind of modification, you are mistaken. " I noticed a big difference.." my reply to that statement is "of course you did". You just spent a few days wages and and hours of your weekend installing that CIA. It takes a very objective person to admit to themselves that they may have wasted all that time and $. Not to say they are completely worthless - just be realistic in your expectations. It was also my intention to prevent you the trouble of either recieving a several hundred dollar bill from your dealer over a check engine light when your car is still under warranty and/or the refusal of a dealer to work on your vehicle until it is returned to stock (which they have the right to do). In addition to giving you a not often seen perspective of the dealer/manufacturer side of things. You are older, more educated and likely wiser than myself. I will not argue that. However, I feel that my knowledge of engines is more than enough to provide you with accurate information. As does my employer. :) I don't have personal or proffessional experience with all aftermarket parts. I do however have that experience with the stock system and am extremely familiar with the affects they impose on the stock system. Pre-oiled filters are FREQUENTLY sources of both maf miscalculation and contamination. So, with that logic your comment would suggest that the manufacturer of the filter does not properly oil it... Do what you want, what you feel and if you disagree - good. There are exceptions to everything.

shaners90lxhatch,

I for one greatly appreciate the insight and knowledge you have provided. Don't feel it necessary to defend your posts - your obvious knowledge, as well as your current occupation, are your defense and speak for themselves. It's just the nature of discussion boards for others to disagree and be vocal about it. That's okay - users like me can make up our own minds about who's correct.

Again, thanks for your insight. I hope you'll hang around here and maybe post your opinions on other subjects as they arise, as I value your point of view.

ORIGINAL: shaners90lxhatch
If you think your car will be a completely different animal after that kind of modification, you are mistaken. " I noticed a big difference.." my reply to that statement is "of course you did". You just spent a few days wages and and hours of your weekend installing that CIA.

You are the one who's mistaken and really you have no experience to base your statement on. The installation of a CAI like JLT takes all of 30 minutes if that and with a custom tune from benspeed makes a noticeable, I would even say huge difference over stock. 30 whp for $500 is a hell of a deal and to me makes the car a completely different animal.

Don't assume things, stick to what you know and have experience with. I own a 2006 GT with a JLT intake and brenspeed tune.

ORIGINAL: moosestang

ORIGINAL: shaners90lxhatch
If you think your car will be a completely different animal after that kind of modification, you are mistaken. " I noticed a big difference.." my reply to that statement is "of course you did". You just spent a few days wages and and hours of your weekend installing that CIA.

You are the one who's mistaken and really you have no experience to base your statement on. The installation of a CAI like JLT takes all of 30 minutes if that and with a custom tune from benspeed makes a noticeable, I would even say huge difference over stock. 30 whp for $500 is a hell of a deal and to me makes the car a completely different animal.

Don't assume things, stick to what you know and have experience with. I own a 2006 GT with a JLT intake and brenspeed tune.




ahh, yes. Whoever compared opinions to certain orifices obviously knew what they were talking about.. and likely had experience with it! $500 is about what I make in a week and to me, not worth 30hp and possible warranty conflicts. To each his own, glad you feel you have gotten a good deal.

My take on mods is; if you're going to race the car (on a track of course) mod it all you want. If you mod it and break it, don't expect Ford to lay down and spread em for you. Spending thousands of dollars for a few horsepower to ride up and down main street on a Saturday night to massage your ego or manhood, is like putting a $100 saddle on a $10 horse. The more you mess (mod) with it, the more problems you will have. I've read where people complain about their lousy gas mileage, and then read about all the mods they've done. Well DUHHHH!

ORIGINAL: shaners90lxhatch
ahh, yes. Whoever compared opinions to certain orifices obviously knew what they were talking about.. and likely had experience with it! $500 is about what I make in a week and to me, not worth 30hp and possible warranty conflicts. To each his own, glad you feel you have gotten a good deal.


You have to look at it logically. On a dollar per horse power basis it is the best deal going compared to say a super charger which involves even greater warranty risks for less hp per dollar. Plus the CAI is much easier to undo. By the way i made $28k last year before taxes.:)

ORIGINAL: shaners90lxhatch
ahh, yes. Whoever compared opinions to certain orifices obviously knew what they were talking about.. and likely had experience with it! $500 is about what I make in a week and to me, not worth 30hp and possible warranty conflicts. To each his own, glad you feel you have gotten a good deal.


It's funny that you don't think 30hp is worth $500 yet you suggest that people change plugs at 15k mile intervals that if they buy them from somewhere online are going to cost at least $10/plug, from Ford they are like $17 each. When these plugs are good for 100k miles. Lets see to prevent them from welding to the head, they could just be removed, cleaned and reinstalled.

If $500 is too much for 30rwhp tell me, are you ever going to buy an intake for your 5.0? I doubt it because it's going to cost you that much and you won't gain that much hp. Gonna buy a cat-back exhaust for your car that's $300-400 and MIGHT pickup 10hp? I guess you are stuck with a bone stock car forever.

jeez, people. I simply meant to demonstrate that the value of the modification is in the eye of the beholder. I, myself, can't afford to spend $500 on 30hp. YES, 30hp for $500 is good considering what is involved but give me a break. You take my statements and DO NOT CONSIDER EXCEPTIONS. I don't hear anyone arguing about the possible warranty conflicts (the premise to the ENTIRE CONVERSATION). The plugs don't have a problem delivering spark for 100k miles, but become a burden to remove. Excuse me for trying to keep you from paying for head removal down the road. And don't be arrogant enough to think that you have better ideas of prevention than the people that designed the damn thing. Trust me, it has VERY LIKELY already been thought of. But don't listen to me. You obviously have it figured out. Do what you want. Pay the consequences should they arise. Blame only yourself if the problem could have been prevented (with your effort, of course. I wouldn't blame a defect on you like you wouldn't blame ford for making a "weak" engine if your turbo blew it up.)

ORIGINAL: shaners90lxhatch

jeez, people. I simply meant to demonstrate that the value of the modification is in the eye of the beholder. I, myself, can't afford to spend $500 on 30hp. YES, 30hp for $500 is good considering what is involved but give me a break. You take my statements and DO NOT CONSIDER EXCEPTIONS. I don't hear anyone arguing about the possible warranty conflicts (the premise to the ENTIRE CONVERSATION). The plugs don't have a problem delivering spark for 100k miles, but become a burden to remove. Excuse me for trying to keep you from paying for head removal down the road. And don't be arrogant enough to think that you have better ideas of prevention than the people that designed the damn thing. Trust me, it has VERY LIKELY already been thought of. But don't listen to me. You obviously have it figured out. Do what you want. Pay the consequences should they arise. Blame only yourself if the problem could have been prevented (with your effort, of course. I wouldn't blame a defect on you like you wouldn't blame ford for making a "weak" engine if your turbo blew it up.)


Yuh... like I said before..it sucks but give someone an inch, they'll try to take a foot.

Shaners your insight and advice is helpful. There will always be someone that either takes everything literaly or trys to find exceptions or feels they're the exception. They're the ones that will saturate the CAI filter and get oil into their intake that blows out the tailpipe and wonder why Ford will not fix it under warranty. Or bitch that their car suddenly doesn't run right and expect Ford (or any manufacturer) to fix it for them even though Ford didn't do it. (Remeber Audi with it's 'Engine Sludge' problems? The cause was the owners not changing the oil regularly. They took the meaning literally about "no service needed for 50-60K miles)

I don't think you need to defend yourself. There are people on this site as there are anywhere else that think they are right no matter what. I say, "good for them". Why do you think we have to put warnings on hair dryers to not use while showering or on McDonalds coffee cups that "warning contents may be hot". It's the lack of insight and observational skills people have in this world.

Move on. ;)

So is your car modified? If so what mods and how much hp did they pick up? If it's not are you planning to mod it? Sorry a lot of the information you are giving out is wrong or has been known about for a LONG time. You act like you are doing people here a service.

You aren't doing anything by putting new plugs in that removing, cleaning and reinstalling isn't doing.... Why because all you are trying to do is break a small seal with carbon that might build over 15k miles.

Lets look at it this way...

Plugs $17x8 = $136
Labor figure 2 hours at $85/hr = $170
Total $306

7 plug changes at 15k mile intervals = 105k miles

7x$306=$2142

I own a performance shop, I would gladly pull both heads on a 3v motor to remove any broken plugs and reinstall the heads all day long every day for $1500 including all of the parts and a new set of spark plugs. Total down time to R&R the heads = 2 days at my shop vs taking the vehicle to the stealership every 15k miles for 2 days.

ORIGINAL: 1QuickShortBus

So is your car modified? If so what mods and how much hp did they pick up? If it's not are you planning to mod it? Sorry a lot of the information you are giving out is wrong or has been known about for a LONG time. You act like you are doing people here a service.

You aren't doing anything by putting new plugs in that removing, cleaning and reinstalling isn't doing.... Why because all you are trying to do is break a small seal with carbon that might build over 15k miles.

Lets look at it this way...

Plugs $17x8 = $136
Labor figure 2 hours at $85/hr = $170
Total $306

7 plug changes at 15k mile intervals = 105k miles

7x$306=$2142

I own a performance shop, I would gladly pull both heads on a 3v motor to remove any broken plugs and reinstall the heads all day long every day for $1500 including all of the parts and a new set of spark plugs. Total down time to R&R the heads = 2 days at my shop vs taking the vehicle to the stealership every 15k miles for 2 days.


Another person interpreting what they want to. He never said to replace them every 15-20K he said clean/replace which simply means to take them out, clean them and put them back in to break the Carbon wedge before it gets too big. :eek:

ORIGINAL: shaners90lxhatch

That's basically correct. Carbon will build naturally but any method of prevention should be considered given the cost of cylinder head removal on a brand new car such as this. Allow your car to reach full operating temperature every time it is run. Do not frequently crowd the throttle in low gear and not give it a chance to rev. Stay out of high load, low RPM conditions as much as possible. Take it out and knock the cobwebs out of it every now and then, after all it is a sports car. Use reputable fuel. People under estimate the likelihood of getting bad gas. It happens much more often than you think, chances are you have been a victim and never even knew it. Use fuel from newer stations that do a lot of business. ONLY put 87 octane in your mustang unless it is supercharged. Higher octane fuel than is needed will facilitate carbon deposits. And, finally remove them (plugs) and clean/replace them every 10-15k miles. You will have to request the dealer do this (better in 3/36 than out of it) or buy a special socket to remove them) It may seem over zealous but I have seen many 5.4 3v's with 20k miles need both heads off. You can imagine how happy the guy at 37K miles is! BTW, I forgot to mention that you already have the updated fuel tank if your car was build 5/05 or sooner.

ORIGINAL: Derf00
Another person interpreting what they want to. He never said to replace them every 15-20K he said clean/replace which simply means to take them out, clean them and put them back in to break the Carbon wedge before it gets too big. :eek:

That sounds great but when I said:

ORIGINAL: 1QuickShortBus
you suggest that people change plugs at 15k mile intervals that if they buy them from somewhere online are going to cost at least $10/plug, from Ford they are like $17 each. When these plugs are good for 100k miles. Lets see to prevent them from welding to the head, they could just be removed, cleaned and reinstalled.

He came back with this:
ORIGINAL: shaners90lxhatch
The plugs don't have a problem delivering spark for 100k miles, but become a burden to remove. Excuse me for trying to keep you from paying for head removal down the road. And don't be arrogant enough to think that you have better ideas of prevention than the people that designed the damn thing. Trust me, it has VERY LIKELY already been thought of. But don't listen to me. You obviously have it figured out. Do what you want. Pay the consequences should they arise. Blame only yourself if the problem could have been prevented (with your effort, of course. I wouldn't blame a defect on you like you wouldn't blame ford for making a "weak" engine if your turbo blew it up.)


So yes he is suggesting the plugs be changed and not cleaned because he claims it the oh so brilliant techs at Ford have already thought of it and it doesn't work.

One more thing, if a MAF is dirty from oil from an air filter it can easily be cleaned with electronics cleaner. But Ford doesn't want you to know that a $5 can of cleaner can fix a problem numerous times with a MAF that they could charge you to diagnose and change plus a few hundred bucks for the sensor.

Yack Yack Yack. [sm=icon_blah.gif]

If you don't want to listen to his advice, don't. Those that do, do it. Jeeze Louise.

Note the word PREVENTION in my comment, and not repair. Replace them on your own accord. Just removal and cleaning them is just as affective. You seem to be the only person that does not understand that. Oh, the cleaner. Yes it works. Hell, we make a chemical for it right? But that is meant for DIRT. NOT another companies filter oil buddy. If it works, well aren't you lucky.
LMFAO, Of course you would love to remove the heads! Can you say CONFLICT OF INTEREST? I would love heroin addicts If i ran a methadone clinic because that would be called business, or job security! YOUR comments are full of rhetoric and in hindsight don't even deserve a response....

ORIGINAL: 1QuickShortBus

One more thing, if a MAF is dirty from oil from an air filter it can easily be cleaned with electronics cleaner. But Ford doesn't want you to know that a $5 can of cleaner can fix a problem numerous times with a MAF that they could charge you to diagnose and change plus a few hundred bucks for the sensor.



You got that straight!!!![sm=exactly.gif]

How about oil changes. Since the time of purchase when do you change oil and what oil to use? What would you recommend ?

Hey shaners90lxhatch,

Without specifying anyone in particular, might I suggest you just ignore those posts (past and future) that seek to argue with and just respond to those of us who find your insight worth considering. It'll save you some time and aggravation and allow those of us who appreciate your responses more opportunity to tap your brain.

5w20 synthetic blend with a motocraft filter (has a check ball for priming). VCT is extremely dependent on proper oil viscosity.

ORIGINAL: moosestang

ORIGINAL: shaners90lxhatch
If you think your car will be a completely different animal after that kind of modification, you are mistaken. " I noticed a big difference.." my reply to that statement is "of course you did". You just spent a few days wages and and hours of your weekend installing that CIA.

You are the one who's mistaken and really you have no experience to base your statement on. The installation of a CAI like JLT takes all of 30 minutes if that and with a custom tune from benspeed makes a noticeable, I would even say huge difference over stock. 30 whp for $500 is a hell of a deal and to me makes the car a completely different animal.

Don't assume things, stick to what you know and have experience with. I own a 2006 GT with a JLT intake and brenspeed tune.




You do realize that the majority of the performance gain you're getting is from the tune correct? You are only getting around an extra 6hp from having the CAI over the stock airbox.

ORIGINAL: shaners90lxhatch

5w20 synthetic blend with a motocraft filter (has a check ball for priming). VCT is extremely dependent on proper oil viscosity.


how about the first oil change from the time its purchase (brand new) How many miles? Frequency of oil change? thanks

You get mad because some people disagree with your statements and you act like you know everything and just because you work for Ford we should all take your word for gospel. Sorry I don't put that much faith in anyone.

ORIGINAL: shaners90lxhatch
Note the word PREVENTION in my comment, and not repair. Replace them on your own accord. Just removal and cleaning them is just as affective. You seem to be the only person that does not understand that.

Yes but if preventative maintenance costs more and results in more time without your car than the repair then where are the benefits?

ORIGINAL: shaners90lxhatch
Oh, the cleaner. Yes it works. Hell, we make a chemical for it right? But that is meant for DIRT. NOT another companies filter oil buddy. If it works, well aren't you lucky.

Yes it works great and is a well known solution to a common problem but not well known enough. You are telling people that if they run a K&N and the MAF wire gets oil on it then it should be replaced when it can be cleaned. The oil that filters use can be removed from the wire with electronics cleaner it works very well for that it's not just for dirt. When you say "we make a chemical for it right?" do you mean Ford makes a chemical for it? Even if they have a private label electronics cleaner they don't make it, it's the same stuff that can be bought in any parts store.

ORIGINAL: shaners90lxhatch
LMFAO, Of course you would love to remove the heads! Can you say CONFLICT OF INTEREST? I would love heroin addicts If i ran a methadone clinic because that would be called business, or job security! YOUR comments are full of rhetoric and in hindsight don't even deserve a response....


Haha... this coming from the person that works for Ford reccomending you take your car to a Ford dealership to replace the plugs every 15k miles, if that isn't the pot calling the kettle black I don't know what is. So will removing the plugs and cleaning them work as you originally stated or is that not effective as you later stated? You contradict yourself but don't try to explain things when someone questions what you say. You get mad and get even further away from the discussion.

Did I specifically say to have the dealer do it? No because you would pay for that repair. Do it yourself if you can, I thought I made that clear. Ford makes electronic cleaner but it is not made for filter oil. That would be an unpercieved benefit if it does. I said that it can and likely will. Not, it definately will. You are begging the question. This is called rhetoric and is (in conjunction with the tone of your comments) an indication of ignorance to but it bluntly. NO, I did not just call you ignorant. I said that your comments make you seem that way. See how literal interpretation of words can keep things from being more complicated than they have to be? I don't understand why you insist on attacking my comments when it is clear to 99% of the people out there that I am only trying to help YOU out?

I think I will take some advice from some of the wiser on this thread and just leave it be.. I have explained my comments enough. Thanks to all for the good reception!:D

how about the first oil change from the time its purchase (brand new) How many miles? Frequency of oil change? thanks

Your thoughts please

I do my first oil change at 2,000 miles then again at 5,000, then every 5,000 after that. That's under normal conditions. If you drive in extreme conditions, do it more often.

Tire rotations (to incl balancing) I do at 5,000 miles, again at 10,000 miles and every 10,000 miles after that.

Ok I am not taking sides and i do not mean to point a finger at Shaner but this is the exact type of attitude regarding Mods that has dealerships voiding warranties. It is based on lack of knowledge of the Mods themselves. You folks think that anything other than stock form is bad and that type of attitude needs to change. Ford should not VOID a warranty for someone running a CAI with a Tune the Tunes are done within specs and do not put the engines at risk, if they did they would not sell the way they have for years and the word would soon get out that they were bad and the performance industry would be out of business. This type of attitude has to be changed. I appreciate the advise you are giving and I myself am a firm believer in not letting plugs stay in the car for 100k I have seen to many heads having to be removed to get them out. But you seem to be very close minded when it comes to mods and most of the dealerships are this way as well and it is simply ignorance and a failure to try and educate themselves on the topic.

Richard

I completely understand how I may seem to oppose mods in all aspects. I, in some ways am a hypocrite because my Mustang is modified in MANY ways. The difference is how my mustang is controlled by the computer, and the utter lack of warrantable items (its a '90). I am not saying that every aftermarket tune is inferor to stock, unreliable, dangerous or anything like that. I think that owners of new mustangs should prevent PCM modification until the vehicle is out of warranty because it will likely create more problems than it will resolve (from a serviceability standpoint). Your vehicle is likely to be down longer, the repairs more intrusive (and expensive should the modification be attributable to the failure), and if the dealer knows you modified the PCM, they are likely to try to find other systems that are modified (like suspension and driveline).

Lets say you sell donuts. Some guys comes and buys your donuts and then eats them with a steak for breakfast. He then gets deathly ill from food poisoning and says it is because of your donuts. He may be correct, but the burden of proof is on his shoulders. He could have undercooked the steak for christ's sake! Same with the manufacturer. I can't take responsibility for a leaned out engine when you have tampered with the component that controls every aspect of that engine including fuel. Granted not everyone with that controller may not have burnt up a motor but I provided a warranty against defects on an engine that operates exactly the way I designed it to. Once it operates outside of that norm, anything could happen. Who knows, maybe it was someone's first day at the chip plant. Maybe that pcm calibration is a one-off lemon of a program. If my PCM did that, or if the new guy screwed up my PCM the manufacturer would gladly pay for it. Why should I have to pay for a failure that is arguably the product of someone else's shortcomings? If that were the case, you could argue that broken components from jumping railroad tracks were the maker's responsibility. After all, suspension is there to absorb bumps. So I took the "bump" at 100mph. Does that mean the suspension is junk? No, it means that you are responsible for damage that occurs as the result of operating the vehicle out of the intended use.

Sorry for the long delay in response, but my home PC has a virus and I have not had time to fix it.

your tuning information is not correct regarding the adaptive.

Perhaps you could explain. What is incorrect and how?

Well I for one took some of what you said initially, with regards to NOT driving the car like a Grandma. What got me thinking about it was the amount of throttle-lag that I seemed to have after I stomped on the accelarator. I analyzed and reevaluated my driving habits, and concluded that I had in fact been driving it like that (I have an auto), so I decided to start trying to drive more aggressively, getting the engine used to stretching its legs so to speak, and specifically with how I gave the car gas inputs. After about a week, I had noticed a significant decrease in the amount of throttle-lag I had, and after about two weeks my throttle-lag was almost non-existant, and I have also noticed what appears to be a more responsive engine, it seems peppier. Am I just tricking myself into believing that?

No, you are not mistaken. Sensitivity may have something to do with the amount of percieved benefit, but there is definately some thinking going on each time you hit the gas. Your trans will adapt to your driving habits as well. I get customers say that their vehicle will shift hard only on Monday mornings. At first glance, their claim would appear to be bogus, but in reality it is 100% accurate. The thing is that they gave the car to their kid over the weekend and he beat the crap out of it. It learns to shift hard 1-2 becuase the kid is always heavy on the throttle. When they get in on Monday and just lightly accel, the 1-2 hits hard expecting another leadfooted driver and customer gets pissed. By the time it arrives at the dealer, the trans relearned the shift points and concern is no longer present. Lovely huh? As interesting as technology may be, I prefer a cable driven manual trans. Less bells and whistles = less strange stuff going on.

Thanks to mustang forums!! Whenver I'm feeling down I can always count on coming here to brighten my spirits and make me laugh...:D

A. If you need someone to tell you when to change your oil, you shouldn't own a mustang IMO
B. So glad the second coming of the ford christ has happened here
C. If you are concerned with your warranty, I 100% agree with everything the ford christ said
D. If you are concerned with warranty, you shouldn't have bought a Ford IMO and you CERTAINLY shouldn't be looking into modding it!
E. I wouldn't let any ford dealership mechanics even change my oil
F. If you want to give technical advice regarding tuning an S197, might be a good idea to own one IMO
G. If I even have to tell you to take everything you hear with a grain of salt and investigate it through other avenues and opinions, then you deserve to have your car break...;)

I honestly believe you work with ford dealerships and know what you are talking about regarding stock S197's and TSB's. You probably have some good dealership advice and are good for this site. Come on over to the real technical S197 site and see how your comments fare with people who actually know something about these cars...:eek: I think you chose your site carefully to make your comments...;)

ORIGINAL: fordfanboy
Come on over to the real technical S197 site and see how your comments fare with people who actually know something about these cars...:eek: I think you chose your site carefully to make your comments...;)

And what site is that?

F' IT - ban or not, here ya go...

w. w. w. i s h o u l d n t p i s s o f f t h e m o d e r a t o r s . c o m (had to space it to show here)

If you are an idiot or want to talk about what stripes to get or what exhaust sounds best, please don't bother cause you'll get no play over there...;)

If you want to actually learn something about S197's and talk with the big boys who actually build the cars you read about, then welcome aboard!! Almost every major shop is a member and posts there. (No - I'm not one of the 'big boys' - I go there to learn)

Again, appearance and waranty nuts need not take a look - it's not for you.:eek:

EDIT: See Forum Rules (http://www.mustangforums.com/rules.asp) #7 to see why... - 28HopUp

Thanks for all the insight. been a master tech since mid 70,s this guy is right on.take his info and go foward he,s telling you more than he has to! My guess he could hold his own on any forum on automotive repair . Remember he,s not telling you all ??? He also know this tech car inside out. Having him here could help 99percent of the people on this forum with their mustang problems. He gets paid well for what he knows what he does here is pro bono this guy cares about mustangers . If you go to a dealer you will not even talk to this person.

you wrote " A KAM reset (disconnecting the battery for about 20 min) will reset any adaptive fuel stratagies learned but will require some drive time to reset and adapt to the changes."

this is not how the spanish oak works on the s197. the adaptive instruction is burned in a prom chip. The only way to erase it is in the program. set adaptive value to zero turns it off and on a restart it will be cleared and off. the adaptive is the short term fuel trims over time.

hahahahah nice post I like it & I'm one of the boys over there

To JOHNNY - if you actually read my post - I 100% believe he is who he says and he is 'great for this site'

My point was not for those who are into stock performance and warranties. Many on this site are and it's great as a mustang 'FAN' site but when you want to actually mod your mustang, this is not the place to learn about it and that's just simple fact.

The fact he works for dealers should only be impressive to those who plan on having their cars modded at dealerships. I honeslty can't think for the life of me of anyone who has done serious motor mods at a dealership??

I'm not trying to be the heckler of this site, but let's be honest and call it was it is - a 'fan' site and appearance mod forum...period. Nothing wrong with that if that's what you're into but it pains me sometimes to see people attempting to get mod advice here and crediting people with mod advice who don't even own an S197 or have modded one in any way.

If you're looking for stripes or exhaust sound great, just don't believe everything you hear on this site if you want to know about internals, FI, and performance mods. That's all...;)

wow dont even know where to start on this stuff...

Best piece of advice I can EVER give anyone...is NEVER TRUST A WORD YOUR DEALER TELLS YOU!!!

They are IDIOTS...(almost) all of them...

I once had a FORD MASTER MECHANIC tell me that I HAD to use motorcraft filters in my car because they are...and I will quote here:

"SPECIALLY DESIGNED TO FILTER OUT THE ALUMINUM PARTICULATES THAT ARE SPECIFICALLY AND EXCLUSIVELY SHED BY THE CYLINDER WALLS IN THE 3V 4.6L MUSTANG ENGINE. OTHER FILTERS CANNOT PROVIDE THAT SAME PROTECTION"
...to anyone with half a brain that is just the dumbest thing i've ever heard..

Like fordfan said...the dealer won't even change my oil...

It's clear this kid "shaners" may have good intentions...but he's clearly Ford DEALER indoctrinated!!
...I just can't go on about everything...gettin' a little too thick for me!

ORIGINAL: Refire05GT

... After about a week, I had noticed a significant decrease in the amount of throttle-lag I had, and after about two weeks my throttle-lag was almost non-existant, and I have also noticed what appears to be a more responsive engine, it seems peppier. Am I just tricking myself into believing that?


You are tricking yourself into believing that. Like it or not - unfortunately - the stock vehicle has throttle lag. I have an 07; I only drive it hard; and I have paid close attention to it - and yes, it is there and it does not go away. [Idle run-down is another issue.] I have not gotten a tune yet and presumably that will take care of it.

Uhm no, I didn't mean tricking myself about the throttle-lag, that I know I don't have anymore, I meant about the slight performance increase as well. Presumably a tune will cure cancer as well one day.

Royb - I hate to burst your bubble buddy, but performing a kam reset WILL in fact clear adaptave fuel strategies, shift strategies, emissions monitor status and codes on ANY Ford PCM. Spanish oak, black oak, PTEC, 106 pin, 150 pin, whatever. If you would like me to cut and paste the actual text from a PCED or shop manual, I will gladly do so. If someone told you this they are mistaken. If it did not work when you tried it, you may not have left the cables off long enough. Sometimes the capacitors will not discharge unless you touch the + and - leads together. I know with 100% certainty this is correct.

Ford Christ.....lol..... Nice to know you hold me so high. I don't know if I should laugh or be offended but getting angry on the internet is useless as an ashtray on a motorcycle.

Not all dealers are the know all be all of cars. Some are more than trustworthy, others are not. The filter thing is right but wrong. Any decent filter will remove break-in material but the 3 valve needs a check ball in the filter or you may have some noise in the a.m. as the system builds pressure.

I do not own a modular mustang, hence my lack of participation in their tech forums. Ironically, I know much more about them than the 5.0 but have little experienc