RE: Take it from a guy who knows
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RE: Take it from a guy who knows - 9/12/2006 11:17:28 PM
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wildabouthorses
Posts: 378
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Thank you Shaners for your info. Hubby took the K&N out and put the stock back in to see if it improves the gas milage. Didn't reset the ECU as he said we have something simular on our 04 motorcycle. Had a dead battery with the bike and the ECU reset itself and caused milage to drop alot until it "relearned" things and then the gas milage picked up on the bike after so many miles. So will be watching closely to see if we get back the gas milage we were getting early on.
I wonder if your the guy they called when my trunk light wasn't working and it turned out the light bulb was okay. It was the ECU/smart moduale that was malfunctioning! When they got the new one in they were really checking out the parts number on it as it wasn't the same as the original and someone on this forum said they had changed the ECU thus the parts number change. I now have the only Mustang with daytime running lights in this area, they came on when they put in the new ECU and I told them not to turn them off as I liked having driving lights. From what info I gathered here in the forums it seems the Canadians Mustangs running lights are on because they are required there and most of us or all of us in the USA don't have em turned on when we got our new mustangs. Any comments about daytime running lights? Or was it this particular new ECU I got had that feature and not the original ECU that was in my 05?
< Message edited by wildabouthorses -- 9/12/2006 11:29:02 PM >
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RE: Take it from a guy who knows - 9/12/2006 11:44:10 PM
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shaners90lxhatch
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I am sorry for your bad experience. It really does happen with all manufacturers. Toyota is going through hard times with a four cylinder right now... All manufactuers have a certain ammount of oil consumption that they are willing to accept as characteristic. Currently, Ford's is up to and including 1 quart of consumption for every 1500 miles. There are many different opinions regarding the acceptability of specs like this as people interpret oil consumption as a sign of damage and an indication of difficiency. In reality all internal combustion engines burn and consume oil. It is one of the many flaws and drawbacks of the beast. In the best case the consumption is so small that it is undetectable on the dipstick as well as to the emissions guy. If oil consumption where such an issue, there would be more accurate methods of oil level measurement. The manufacturer sets the standards on everything else about your vehicle, fluid usage is no acception. In addition, if the vehicle smoking on startup you are refering to is a 4.6L 4v, 4.6L 4v s/c, a 5.0L, a 5.8L, a 6.8L, (and several others that I cannot recall becuase hey, im not the know all be all of ford) have forged pistons. The pistons have to reach high temperature to make the best seal. Turns out this seal when hot is not only more accomodating to the whole combustion thing but gives the piston strength and therefore an edge on cast competitors. Now, if it was a 4.6 2v in like a crown vic, grand marq, town car, explorer or F, it is well known that there were issues with oil consumption years ago and it isn't something they deal with today. I can't defend all actions of any business or organization, for I even regret some of my own. They are run by people and they make mistakes like people do. But in most cases one cannot appreciate the essence of the vehicle they own, unless they appreciate and understand the resources needed to create it. Even when you want to cuss at the engineer that made something impossible to access or notorious to fail. After all, if he could appreciate it, he did the best he could with what he had.
seriously, I am not usually this long winded. I think I have now put more posts on a thread that I don't belong to than I have to the one I do belong to! Its a shame that I know more about the new mustang than I do my own 1990. 
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RE: Take it from a guy who knows - 9/13/2006 12:02:51 AM
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BadRiver
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Great reading! My take-away is to buy the lower-octane fuel for my 2007 GT with 2,000 miles.
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RE: Take it from a guy who knows - 9/13/2006 10:01:20 AM
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richmod
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quote:
ORIGINAL: mail906
It really comes down to a simple question. Either the stock powerplant is strong enough in design and manufacture to accept moderate-to-aggressive modifications or it's not. Your advice to do nothing suggests that it is not; or that you are simply reciting Ford mandra in this regard.
I don't think it's that simple. Certainly there are mods that the stock engine and drivetrain can handle. There are others that are qusetionable. And still others with a high probability of causing probs. Point is - Ford didn't test all these mods on this car before selling it, and as such cannot claim with any reasonable certainty which mods are okay and which aren't. And from a busines standpoint - you can't warrant a product, ANY product, that has been altered form it's original design, for the exact reasons I stated above. As long as the company, in this case Ford, makes that clear, then the buyer is aware that the mods are done at their own risk. I think shaners90lxhatch's post was intended from that point of view - warranty concerns, and he's right. The best way to insure your warranty coverage is not to mod it until the warranty is up. Whether the car can handle the mods is a different question.
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RE: Take it from a guy who knows - 9/13/2006 3:45:44 PM
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Silencer06
Posts: 368
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From: Raised in Chicago; living by St. Louis in Troy, IL
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quote:
ORIGINAL: spuddogg
quote:
ORIGINAL: shaners90lxhatch
WOW. you guys are making me work when I am not at work! LOL. I am happy to help.. They don't pay me much in money but the reward of helping can be sweet. I just wish it could pay of my fox body 
I've been keeping an eye on this thread for the past couple days and I think I can speak for many of us when I offer many thanks for sharing your knowledge with us.
Ditto me! Just reading and learning and appreciating every single email Shaners takes the time to respond with. Right or wrong, trustworthy or not, black or white, doesn't matter -- he's voluntarily trying to help us all with a little education and information about what is still a very new vehicle platform, and I think we all owe him gratitude for his efforts.
I applaud you Shaners!
Nick
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RE: Take it from a guy who knows - 9/13/2006 3:56:56 PM
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Derf00
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quote:
ORIGINAL: mail906
quote:
ORIGINAL: shaners90lxhatch
2) Nothing. Wait until your warranty is up, take care of it in the meantime and save your money for awesome mods that won't piss off the dealer and/or manufacturer
I disagree with your assessment. Essentially you are suggesting that someone like me who purchases the vehicle intending it to be a low milage driver should wait 5 years before doing anything. [I have an 07 with the 5 yr. / 60,000 mile power train warranty.]
That's ridiculous. I purchased the vehicle to drive; not admire. Mustang buyers who purchased the vehicle simply because they think it is cute most likely aren't reading this forum. Members here for the most part are attempting to maximize their driving experience (read: performance experience).
It really comes down to a simple question. Either the stock powerplant is strong enough in design and manufacture to accept moderate-to-aggressive modifications or it's not. Your advice to do nothing suggests that it is not; or that you are simply reciting Ford mandra in this regard.
I think your knowledge is commendable and far exceeds mine. And my reply here is in no way meant to be disrepectful. But I do think that some of the textbook thinking that you have learned in a short time (2 to 3 years out of college) - and conveyed herein - needs to be balanced by other members who have real world modification experience with Ford products. I would certainly like to hear from others - like performance company employees or owners - who has actually modified Ford engines and has witnessed their performance over time. I am thinking that they might have some other thoughts.
Thanks for your thoughts and your time. It's appreciated.
I find statements like this hard to swallow. To modify your vehicle is an 'At-your-own-risk' venture. Why should the dealer be liable for damage you or anyone else incurs on a modifcation?
That's like me saying well, sorry I backed into your stang you should fix it. My mistake but you fix it.
It boils down to, if your mod caused the failure, you don't have the warranty on that part because it is NOT OEM and has not been tested by the OEM to be safe/reliable/compatible. Basic warranty disclaimer has it in regular print. all the Manguss or Mongoose act or whatever states is that modification alone does not void warranty. The part must prove to be the source of hte failure.
In essense, the Tune is the Brain of the car. modify the tune/brain you change the way the car acts along with everything attached to it meaning all of the sensors etc. Those sensors dictated how the car runs. Lets say you tune the crap out of your motor and becuase of a really lean burn you burn a hole in piston...ford is responsible?? Yeah right...
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RE: Take it from a guy who knows - 9/13/2006 4:59:57 PM
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Derf00
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quote:
ORIGINAL: mail906
quote:
ORIGINAL: Derf00
To modify your vehicle is an 'At-your-own-risk' venture.
Who ever said it wasn't?
That the whole point. The initial question dealt with the best way to go about unleashing horsepower? No one ever asked Ford to untake the associated responsibility.
And all we're taking about is the warranty and not pissing off the dealer ... bla ... bla ... bla ...
Sure if you make mods you take the risk. But is the powerplant so fragile that it's Russian roulette? Thanks the question.
I think not.
Problem is you give someone an inch, they try to take a foot.
So let say Ford says okay..our blocks can handle 400 flywheel HP (up 100 from teh stock 300) and can take bla bla bla...then the car fails. That makes Ford liable then for saying "yes it's safe to run that hard" plus they get stuck with the bill.
So Ford, like every other manufacture tries to stick to the letter on their modifcations policy. Give an inch people will take a foot.
Here's a question. Lets say you put in performance heads on your stang and blow out a piston and mess up a head. Let's say Ford will fix your piston even though your part caused it by raising your compression too high. So now Ford shoudl also have to replace your aftermarket head? Woudl you be happy if they said we'll fix the piston but not replace the head or if we do it will be back to stock?
Probably not. Why even open that can of worms?
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RE: Take it from a guy who knows - 9/13/2006 9:23:09 PM
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cortc
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I appreciate some of the things you posted here but many of the things you said are not 100% accurate and ring of someone who has received most of their indoctrination from Ford... I see you are a young lad as you say you finished HS in 2000, well I graduated from HS in 1985 and graduated College in 1989 with a degree in Mechanical Engineering then went off and received my Masters in 1992...
I started tuning and modifying cars since the early 80 and have never stopped, the list is long…
While Ford as a manufacturer is trying to strike a balance of performance and reliability while containing cost and keeping the federal government happy with overall fuel economy standards; the aftermarket is not. If you want to buy a car drive it under warranty for as long as you can and think performance should take a back seat then yes some of this applies. If however you are interested in performance and don't mind some decrease in mileage than many of your statements do not apply. Obviously if you increase the ability of an engine to make power by improving air flow and then add more fuel with a correct tune, than you will burn more fuel. A good CAI and a tune which are really not mutually exclusive, (you need both to be running a correctly calibrated engine), can gain as much as 25 HP on these #V 4.6 engines... (There is a reason the GT500 was hit with a gas-guzzler tax…) FRPP themselves sell a CAI and tuner that provides a 20HP increase...
Not to overly simplify things but engines are air/fuel pumps, the more air fuel you can stuff in a cylinder during a power stroke and efficiently burn the more power you will make...
Yes, if you install an oiled filter in an engine that has been improperly oiled it will soil the MAF sensor and it will not read correctly, I have been discussing that for over 15 years with enthusiast on many forums with many different manufactures cars. A proper air filter on a properly maintained vehicle with the correct tune will make more power and in many cases run more efficiently under part throttle conditions...
I as well deal very closely with Ford and have access to your counter parts all over the country and have been doing so for a few more years then yourself. I can say that though you believe yourself to be knowledgeable you need a bit more experience out of the box before making blanket statements about particulars in regards to the theory and function of internal combustion engines...
A well designed CAI with a properly OILED filter and correct tune will make a better/higher performing engine that burns more fuel at WOT...
Oh, and all the other statements that you posted in regards to differential/transmission noise TSBs and such have all been posted and discussed here so many times I have lost count… Try the search function next time you visit…
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RE: Take it from a guy who knows - 9/13/2006 9:40:55 PM
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richmod
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cortc,
- so, what's YOUR opinion on the K&N drop-in filter?
- since you say you have access to some ford guys, what's their/your take on the "can a tune be detected" deal? maybe you could take a stab at answering my post ( below) to shaners90lxhatch:
Regarding PCM tune, from your reply, it sounds like some tunes are detectable, even if the vehicle has been reflashed to stock by the owner before bringing it in - correct? Does driving for 50-100 miles after flashing to stock and/or disconnecting the battery make any difference in detectability? Also, in your experience, does Ford often deny warranty claims solely on the presence of a tune?
I have a tune now - only had it for about 1000 miles. If I flash back to stock now, then develop engine problems 10,000 miles later, will Ford: a) still be able to detect my previous tune, and b) deny warranty work because of it?
TIA
< Message edited by richmod -- 9/13/2006 10:25:18 PM >
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RE: Take it from a guy who knows - 9/13/2006 10:46:36 PM
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My05GT
Posts: 77
Joined: 7/29/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: wildabouthorses
Thanks you shanners for the info...my hubby thought it was the way I drove or something I did that lowered the gas milage. Now it looks like its what HE did changing to the K&N air filter! Sounds like we need to reset the ECU if he goes back to stock to get it to read the MAF sensor properly?
Thanks Shaners, it's always good to have input from your type of source.
One thing about the K&N air filter...I put one in about 10K miles ago and have noticed an increase in gas mileage. I went from averaging 19.x to 21.x+. I haven't noticed any drop in performance at all either. Could I still be hurting the engine?
Also, on the wot advice - definitely. I made a 3 hour trip to the shore a month or so ago. I probably averaged 80-85mph over the trip. After that the car seemed stronger. Maybe I cleaned out the cobwebs :)
I'll have to re-read all the posts, but are you saying a CAI is not really worth it, other than sounding louder than stock?
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RE: Take it from a guy who knows - 9/13/2006 11:58:26 PM
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timothyrw
Posts: 527
Joined: 9/1/2006
From: Indy
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Clearly there is nothing wrong with a CAI as long as it is done properly. A CAI, tune, and x-pipe exhaust is how Shelby added 25hp to their GT-H and forthcoming Shelby GT.
"Shelby Automobiles, based in Las Vegas, begins with a stock Mustang GT and adds a Ford Racing Power Pack and Handling Pack to each car. The Power Pack consists of a 90-millimeter cold-air intake, reworked engine calibration, upgraded exhaust flow (via a new X-pipe) and a shorter rear axle ratio (3.55 versus the GT's 3.31). And while the rental GT-H comes in automatic form only, the Shelby GT can be had with a slushbox or a five-speed manual transmission featuring a Hurst short-throw shifter."
http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/Drives/FirstDrives/articleId=116496
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