So the plugs are I assume "projected tip" that extend deep into the combustion chamber? If so I have a few questions and although I realise you are saying these arent "conventional plugs" and I have never seen the new 4.6 plugs I would think that heat is heat. Anyway if the plug prohects further into the chamber wouldnt this by inherent design REDUCE teh chances of deposits by exposing the the tip to more of the combustion event for more complete burn-and I assume again that this is in fact the reason for that design. That being said is the problem from the plug being exposed to the heat itself and NOT the bbuildup of deposits? I hae had a few perfromance motors that I used projector tip plugs; i.e., HOT plugs and never heard of this breaking off you describe. Similarly I have used colder plugs in engines to prevent detonation run more timing etc etc, wich CAN cause more carbon deposits to build up but have never experienced this breaking off of the plug tip from deposits? Do you have a picture of the new plugs? I'll check out ebay there are usually pics of anything there. So is a solution to this breaking off problem a colder plug? are colder plugs even availabe? But from what I understand about what you are saying is that it is the carbon buildup that causes them to break off? This just seems really weird since they are extended tip and by design extended tip usually resist depostits at the expense of detonation resistance.
The "shank" of the plug is not integral to the body of the plug. It is crimped on and is made of a completely different alloy. The two cannot be welded together. Carbon builds up between the outer diameter of the plug shank and the inner diameter of the cylinder head bore that the plug lies in. This carbon not only prevents the plug from being turned, but also likes to wedge the shank of the plug in there. So, you can typically get about 1/4 turn out of the plug before it breaks. If the porcelain breaks off with the shank, head removal is necessary as tapping it down far enough to thread the removal tool will put small porcelain particulates in the cylinder and score the wall. If the porcelain does not break off, the removal tool will cut threads into the inner diameter of the shank and extract like using a puller to remove a pulley. The PZT1FF4 is the plug for the mustang and explorer. The PZT2FF4 is identical in design, but has a hotter heat range and was originally used in the 5.4 3v. This made the engine spark knock excessively so has recently been traded for the 1F. The 1f is now standard for the 4.6 and 5.4 3v engines. The 2F plug has been made obsolete and has been installed since I believe April of 05 builds to current. Heat range does not seem to have much affect on failure rate...... but engineers are still working on prevention.
Wow, those are some funky plugs Say the shank does get wedged in with carbon. Will slight tapping of the plug prior to full turning, turning and tightning of the plug a few times by 1/4 turns, or penetrating fluid help to break up the carbon enough to remove the plug without breaking it? At least so you can get it out and replace it with a new one?
#1 Does a 2007 GT have throttle lag and a lag in idle run down? The consensus here is that it does, although others have suggested that this has been corrected from earlier models. My vehicle seems like it has a lag.
#2 What is your suggestion as what to do about it? Of course we are all concerned with warranty issues, but what is the best way to unleash resonably safe horsepower?
#3 And finally can you give us any insight into Saleen / Roush vehicles that are supercharged? Yeah they are fast, but do they hold up with a stock shortblock?
For my 2 cents, I am / was contemplating a C&L CAI with custom tune or alternatively getting a supercharger. Or are you really saying that since the risk exceeds the benefit (your words I believe) that these powerplants are not really built for heavy tweaking?
1) Yes they do. Evey different calibration will have slightly different ETC characteristics but the main operation remains the same. The long dashpot with the 5 speed cars is actually put there on purpose. Wonder why this is the easiest car in the world to lean a stick? The PCM will hold the RPM's close to the shift point momentarily so that (under a refined method of clutch use) the shift is more seemless. This reduces drivetrain stress and actually improves fuel economy and the life of the whole meat & potatos. This is commonly refered to as "Dashpot" and is incorporated to conventional IAC driven throttle bodies of the recent past. The lack of initial respone, unfortunately is a byproduct of all the thinking involved in the system. However, it really only hinders your ability to show off and "abuse" the car for fun. It's a bummer but a side affect nonetheless. Ford's ETC is not a "pedal follower" type system similar to those used by german and japanese manufacturers. Ours is a "torque-based demand" that basically turns your accel pedal into torque switch that tells the pcm to give you "X" ammount of total engine torque and the PCM will do so regardless of whether or not that means open the throttle 100%
2) Nothing. Wait until your warranty is up, take care of it in the meantime and save your money for awesome mods that won't piss off the dealer and/or manufacturer
3) Saleen and Roush are like a really rich guy that buys our cars and has his will with them. Only the stage 3 saleen has powertrain mods and saleen takes full responsibility to any damage in any way attributable to the failure (just like you would). Roush is a bit different and like to use their own calibrations before bolt ons but they have no powertrain warranty either.
Refer to #2 on any modification ideally. Baby the thing and have it completely taken care of until about three thousand miles after your warranty expires (dealers/manufacturers will work with you especially if you bring them good biz like lubes and tires and tune ups that you pay for). Then have at it. You know your car by now. You have full responsibility for it and made a few friends and good contacts along the way. Build the car of your dreams and who knows, maybe people will pay you for having it.
drop in filters in my mind are worse than the whole CAI setup. Wet filters and MAF sensors are a bad combination any way you slice it. I don't care what anyone else tells you, or if you don't oil it liberally or whatever. BAD BAD BAD. Use at your own risk. The plugs in the 3v is completely different from any 2v out there. Your 97 has a conventional plug with platinum tips being the only unique characteristic. Only the 04 and up owners have to worry about the breakage issue.
I forgot about these K&N drop-ins as being "wet" with the oil they require. I think I will get an OEM or Motorcraft filter and just change those out a bit more frequently than ordinary due to my frequent driving. I certainly don't want to screw up my MAF sensor. I really thought the K&N drop-in filter was a very good thing to do, but I can see the problem here.
I've driven with the K&N drop-in filter about 6k miles now.... would it be advisable to do a reset (disconnect battery for ~20 mins) after popping back in a standard filter?
Good info ... I recall the dashpots on early carbureted Fords .... electontric do-hickey to slowly drop the engine back down to idle speed when you abruptly let off the accellerator .... however, unlike electronic ignition ... mechanical dashpots did not affect initial throttle response ...
3) Saleen and Roush are like a really rich guy that buys our cars and has his will with them. Only the stage 3 saleen has powertrain mods and saleen takes full responsibility to any damage in any way attributable to the failure (just like you would). Roush is a bit different and like to use their own calibrations before bolt ons but they have no powertrain warranty either.
If you live in a state that requires emissions testing, I would advise against performing a KAM reset. This will require the PCM to reurn all the required emissions testing (OBDII drivecycle) and it can sometimes be very picky because the perameters needed to initiate the tests is specific to rather tight ranges and can be a pain in the arse.
Your computer will eventually relearn the way in needs to run best. You may experience strange characteristics for a day or two (and that is absolute worst case scenario). If the light did not come on after installation, likely the correction needed to return to normality will be minor as well. The PCM is pretty good at this and designed to do so in addition to being the reason it runs so good at any altitude, in any condition, under all circumstances.
WOW. you guys are making me work when I am not at work! LOL. I am happy to help.. They don't pay me much in money but the reward of helping can be sweet. I just wish it could pay of my fox body
ORIGINAL: shaners90lxhatch WOW. you guys are making me work when I am not at work! LOL. I am happy to help.. They don't pay me much in money but the reward of helping can be sweet. I just wish it could pay of my fox body
I've been keeping an eye on this thread for the past couple days and I think I can speak for many of us when I offer many thanks for sharing your knowledge with us.
About the spark plug problems on the 5.4L 3v trucks. I read the plugs for the trucks are 1 heat range hotter than our mustangs, does that make a difference?
Also has there been any plugs that have broke off on a mustang?
You mentioned in one of your earlier post in this thread: "PCM programs are getting easier to identify and will cause problems as well." Does this mean that having "had" a tune in the PCM is detectable by the dealer even though you put the stock tune back in before going to the dealer for service? I understand from reading many threads that a P1000 code is thrown, but is there more? Any input on this issue would be appreciated.
I have been on the fence about getting a tune because of warranty concerns.
Thanks.
< Message edited by tommyboy45 -- 9/12/2006 9:13:25 PM >
Thank you to all for being patient and providing good questions. You know, when I graduated high school in 2000 I could barely change oil and a tire and had not detailed concept of how an engine is managed. I never worked at a dealer or a heavy repair shop. Just a few years at a parts store and 4 years of school and lab/side work. Never was a fan of fords, mustangs were always different in my mind but never floated my boat. Now I can diagnose virtually any driveability issue with a minimal ammount of info especially fords. I own a 99 taurus and a 90 mustang (toy) and have a completely new respect for Ford as a company; and the Mustang as a classic american performance car. The mustang crowd is like no other and I am now proud to be a mustang enthusiast as well as a contributing factor in bringing American manufacturers back to the top of the industry. People like you guys are why Ford will eventually sell one out of every three cars sold in this country again.
I walk a thin line explaining this to you, so I hope it is taken with consideration. Not all programs are detectable. I don't know which ones and wouldn't tell you if I did The dealer has the ability (and the desire if the program makes diagnosis of your problem more difficult) to reset the calibration if needed. It is actually quite easy and almost standard practice upon your visit as it may help resolve other issues the manufacturer has been working on. When this happens, the tune you paid for is bye bye and you paid for temporary "improvement". I advise against aftermarket calibrations until your warranty is up as it will likely create more problems (in regards to down-time and repeated repair attempts) than it will resolve. After that, you are on your own dealing with the consequences of such actions.
What district are you in? I had a "field service rep" come out and look at my car and just looked like an idiot. Yeah, he said that blue smoke pouring out of my engine when I first start it up was normal and flagged my VIN so that if it ever smoked again, then he said it was normal... Thanks alot bra!! Turns out he was WRONG!!!!! Oh yea, WRONG!!! There was a problem and it hasn't smoked since. It started at 2200 miles and stopped when I fixed it, oh yeah, I forgot to tell you, I use to work for Ford too and I'm a mechanical engineer. That is one of the many reasons that I will NOT buy another Ford again, Ford simply doesn't care about the customer.... to frekin lazy to look for the problem, but would rather hook a stupid NGS to it and see if it says anything. Yeah, thanks for your advice!
quote:
ORIGINAL: shaners90lxhatch
With all due respect stanger, my sources are solid as the ground you stand on. I work for Ford and give dealership technicians advice on how to repair your car. I decided to share some of that info with you "laymen" against my better judgement. (I don't want to loose this job). They call me when nobody at the dealer can figure out how to fix your car. I will gladly consider any proof you can provide that would contradict my statements.
First off, thanks for sharing your knowledge and time.
Regarding PCM tune, from your reply, it sounds like some tunes are detectable, even if the vehicle has been reflashed to stock by the owner before bringing it in - correct? Does driving for 50-100 miles after flashing to stock and/or disconnecting the battery make any difference in detectability? Also, in your experience, does Ford often deny warranty claims solely on the presence of a tune?
I have a tune now - only had it for about 1000 miles. If I flash back to stock now, then develop engine problems 10,000 miles later, will Ford: a) still be able to detect my previous tune, and b) deny warranty work because of it?
If you'd rather not post your answer publicly, feel free to pm.
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RE: Take it from a guy who knows - 
Say the shank does get wedged in with carbon. Will slight tapping of the plug prior to full turning, turning and tightning of the plug a few times by 1/4 turns, or penetrating fluid help to break up the carbon enough to remove the plug without breaking it? At least so you can get it out and replace it with a new one? 
The dealer has the ability (and the desire if the program makes diagnosis of your problem more difficult) to reset the calibration if needed. It is actually quite easy and almost standard practice upon your visit as it may help resolve other issues the manufacturer has been working on. When this happens, the tune you paid for is bye bye and you paid for temporary "improvement". I advise against aftermarket calibrations until your warranty is up as it will likely create more problems (in regards to down-time and repeated repair attempts) than it will resolve. After that, you are on your own dealing with the consequences of such actions.
