RE: GT500 -ford's big mistake?
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RE: GT500 -ford's big mistake? - 9/7/2006 11:38:09 PM
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MrRogers
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quote:
ORIGINAL: ShadowDrake
I wish the GT500 were more, so more people would be dropping their 03/04 cobras at a great price for them 
In all honesty, I've heard a lot of disappointment about them but I think everyone was expecting too much, it was a bit overhyped. I still think time will tell for the GT500. There has to be some weight reduction available, it's tough to understand how it picked up so much weight... Lose some weight, especially in the front end, and we'll have a much better platform.
Dan, if you go to sell the Cobra, you'll have a very interested buyer right here Totally serious, your Cobra is exactly what I've been looking for. If/when you go to sell it, drop me a PM.
+1
I think that the hype was to much for the cars sucess. The GT500 should be competing with other fast sedans like the SRT8s and M5 and cars of that nature. And i'm pretty sure it does. The C6 has weight and areodynamics on its side so it's no mystery that it can't hang with a Vette on the track. Would I buy the GT500? no. But I can uderstand why someone would. It is still a great car. Sounds damn good too.
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RE: GT500 -ford's big mistake? - 9/7/2006 11:46:07 PM
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Blownsvt
Posts: 1997
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personally i like the gt 500's i have seen several of them and think they are a really nice looking car. a little slow and heavy compared to modded 03/04 cobra but onc eth after market catches up and you start seeing a few mods to them they will liven up big time. it a bit dissapointing that a 03 with around 420 hp can beat a shelby that has 475 but hey thats life it happens all the time. throw a few mods at the gt 500 and it will be a whole differnt car. just like it is with the 03/04's.
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RE: GT500 -ford's big mistake? - 9/8/2006 12:21:50 AM
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Birdieman4
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+1 to most of these posts; I like hearing all your opinions'. Yes, we all agree weight is the biggest issue here. But, I wish Ford just put the aluminum block in it from the getgo. It helps solve several problems, including getting the weight dist. more balanced, helping handling a lot. (I bet Ford listens on this one, and I bet they will eventually go aluminum)
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RE: GT500 -ford's big mistake? - 9/8/2006 12:43:46 AM
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C6 VETTE
Posts: 2866
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quote:
ORIGINAL: ByPopularDemand
When has ford competed with GM power wise
Take 2003-04 for example , the Terminator was slightly faster than the base Corvette. Allthough the ZO6 is a faster car it is also quite a bit more expensive. With the exception of the Terminator Ford never seems to offer a powerful car for an affordable price,or they make a limited amount that drives up the demand and makes it impossible for the blue collar man/woman to own..............The Terminator is one hell of a car (The only Mustang I respect) and I wish I had one next to my Vette in my driveway.
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RE: GT500 -ford's big mistake? - 9/8/2006 12:49:53 AM
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MrRogers
Posts: 2971
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quote:
ORIGINAL: C6 VETTE
quote:
ORIGINAL: ByPopularDemand
When has ford competed with GM power wise
Take 2003-04 for example , the Terminator was slightly faster than the base Corvette. Allthough the ZO6 is a faster car it is also quite a bit more expensive. With the exception of the Terminator Ford never seems to offer a powerful car for an affordable price,or they make a limited amount that drives up the demand and makes it impossible for the blue collar man/woman to own..............The Terminator is one hell of a car (The only Mustang I respect) and I wish I had one next to my Vette in my driveway.
+1-with a pulley!
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2002 Mustang GT
2007 Chevy Tahoe
C6 Z06 + Bolt ons
Every car in my garage has 2 valves.
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RE: GT500 -ford's big mistake? - 9/8/2006 1:15:38 AM
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C6 VETTE
Posts: 2866
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quote:
ORIGINAL: 2000GT4.6
If you cannot get a GT500 deep into the 12s bone stock, you need to take the car back.
Don't blame ford because people cannot drive. Evan smith got one with the TRACTION CONTROL ON to run deep 12s. Jeez.
Seriously, all of you guys bitch about the weight (and yes, it would be nice if it were down some) but it will outrun ANY stock mustang ever built before. It will respond better to simple mods than any stock mustang ever before, it will make more horsepower with the factory equipment tuned (and lets say pullied) than ever before, and it will make more power with a few aftermarket items (like a twin screw) than ever before.
WHAT are you bitching about? It looks awsome, will bury a 03/04 cobra on the strip and the circle course, comes with a stick axle (instead of the ****ty IRS). It has a 5.4L (finnally more displacment FTW) and a better stock blower than the 03/04 cars.
If you really buy a GT500 to go to the drag strip, install a set of 4.10s and a tune and run 11s.
BTW, the corvette comparason is bogus. Not only does GM loose money on EVERY vette it sells (alot) but its not even close to the same price range. MSRP of what, 40K vs 50K+ (if you get any options on the vette).
Everyone compares the vette and says, why can't anyone else offer the same value per dollar? GM IS LOOSING MONEY ON IT!!!! At least ford is not literally sending 3 to 5 thousand dollars per mustang out the door.
You show me some concrete litrature on what the exact cost per unit is to GM on the Corvette,and then I'll accept your claim with credence. The day GM ceases production on the Vettes I'll break out the Kleenex and give you a pat on the back............But until then bite your tongue.....
Corvettes have been in production since 1953 and have been made every year since (except 1983) and if this car was such a money loser they would have pulled the plug on it a long time ago. The Camaro had a huge following and despite it's fans GM pulled the plug because of economic issues....................so what makes the Vette any different.
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RE: GT500 -ford's big mistake? - 9/8/2006 1:18:47 AM
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72MachOne99GT
Posts: 5570
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From: Eskimo Village, Indiana *No Igloo*
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i dont believe GM loses money on a Corvette either.. just something I didnt want to waste my time calling B.S. on..
seems incredibly outrageous.. however, if he proves it, i'll bite my tounge and maybe even apologize..
we all know what happens to cars that dont make profits.... .they become extinct
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RE: GT500 -ford's big mistake? - 9/8/2006 4:07:27 AM
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2000GT4.6
Team MF Member #2046
Posts: 12516
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quote:
ORIGINAL: 72MachOne99GT
i dont believe GM loses money on a Corvette either.. just something I didnt want to waste my time calling B.S. on..
seems incredibly outrageous.. however, if he proves it, i'll bite my tounge and maybe even apologize..
we all know what happens to cars that dont make profits.... .they become extinct
When I get home I will see what I can find for you guys on the net. I had the literature at my old job all the time.
Last year, GM lost 3500 dollars on EACH car it sold, every single one. What this means is they took GM's net loss, and divided it by the number of cars sold. The vette is a sure money looser at this point. You honestly think they are going to make money on a relativly limited production car that costs 50K, and has the engine/suspesion/setup that the vette has? You keep wondering why the viper and the GT are so much more... cause they make money.
I will see if I can find anything for ya tomarrow, but at my old job we got regular reports on the top 5 or so car manufacturers. I lost that job because ford was loosing its ass on the KC line and killed that plant (and thus our plant that supported it).
EDIT: Ford did not stop the camaro/firebird line because it was not making money. They stopped production because they were sitting on the lots unbought, even though they made less and less of them every year. Check out the production numbers on the car, and you will see a steep decline in the last few years of procduction. People simply were not buying the car.
Listen, I work in the manfacutring field (now at a food plant, same difference) and the way you make money on a product is to SELL the hell out of it (most sold possible), and sell the same exact thing for as long as possible.
The import carmakers really know their stuff. The "toyota way" is to sell the same product for as long as possible making only small changes to improve it. Look how long a camry stays with the same basic design.
What this does is streamline production and make each part cost less. At my old job, Ford BUILT IN the contract price declines per part each year. The longer we made the same part, the less they would pay for it. It was also in the contract that the price per part reduced at certain production levels. 10 bucks for a widget at 5000 a year, 8 at 10,000 a year, and so on.
The vette is the LEAST likely car to make money for GM simply because of this. It has a very low (realitivly, we make 250~ thousand ford escape a year) production number, it was just redesigned, it uses very expensive parts (fiberglass forming anyone?), and the parts are not used in any other platforms (for the most part). This results in a crapton of custom stuff that is very expensive because the numbers are so low.
Lets take a fictonal company and look at it. Say you make turn signals. Now your factory can make 100,000 turn signals a year, but only for one or two types of cars. You want that factory to make 1 million dollars a year. Now GM wants you to make 50,000 signals a year for their car (25,000 total cars). What do you do?
You charge more for the price of your product. You make more on each signal, but the same overall as if you were making 100,000 signals a year at a cheaper price. Now, if gm comes back and tells you they want 100,000, you can lower your overal price (and get their buisness) and still make your 1,000,000 a year.
Its simple production economics.
< Message edited by 2000GT4.6 -- 9/8/2006 4:22:54 AM >
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RE: GT500 -ford's big mistake? - 9/8/2006 8:51:21 AM
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S281 E
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Good info guys. Keep it coming.
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RE: GT500 -ford's big mistake? - 9/8/2006 9:17:04 AM
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4Stangs
Posts: 1452
Joined: 6/15/2006
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Twister
the Vette is simply an icon, the car brings enough people into the showroom that GM can afford to loose a few dollars if it sells more Crapbolts
Bingo! We have a winner. That is PRECISELY why GM keeps the one nameplate in their line and will for as long as they exist. GM couldn't afford to keep the camaro. it was sitting on lots and not selling while the cheaper and in most cases, faster mustang sold like hotcakes. GM will lose money on the vette forever if nothing more than to save it's performance reputation.
Wow. GT 500 discussion is now a vette discussion....go figure.
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RE: GT500 -ford's big mistake? - 9/8/2006 11:17:20 AM
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2000GT4.6
Team MF Member #2046
Posts: 12516
Joined: 1/22/2004
From: United States
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quote:
ORIGINAL: 4Stangs
quote:
ORIGINAL: Twister
the Vette is simply an icon, the car brings enough people into the showroom that GM can afford to loose a few dollars if it sells more Crapbolts
Bingo! We have a winner. That is PRECISELY why GM keeps the one nameplate in their line and will for as long as they exist. GM couldn't afford to keep the camaro. it was sitting on lots and not selling while the cheaper and in most cases, faster mustang sold like hotcakes. GM will lose money on the vette forever if nothing more than to save it's performance reputation.
Wow. GT 500 discussion is now a vette discussion....go figure.
I agree with faster selling, but acutally faster? Not since the late 80s/early 90s anyway.
Lets not get carried away here and make it look like I agree with anything you have said since you joined this forum.
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RE: GT500 -ford's big mistake? - 9/8/2006 12:06:34 PM
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4Stangs
Posts: 1452
Joined: 6/15/2006
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quote:
ORIGINAL: 2000GT4.6
quote:
ORIGINAL: 4Stangs
quote:
ORIGINAL: Twister
the Vette is simply an icon, the car brings enough people into the showroom that GM can afford to loose a few dollars if it sells more Crapbolts
Bingo! We have a winner. That is PRECISELY why GM keeps the one nameplate in their line and will for as long as they exist. GM couldn't afford to keep the camaro. it was sitting on lots and not selling while the cheaper and in most cases, faster mustang sold like hotcakes. GM will lose money on the vette forever if nothing more than to save it's performance reputation.
Wow. GT 500 discussion is now a vette discussion....go figure.
I agree with faster selling, but acutally faster? Not since the late 80s/early 90s anyway.
Lets not get carried away here and make it look like I agree with anything you have said since you joined this forum.
Ok. Tell me that LS1s rule and I'll fire back that Cobras kill LS1s! Then everyone will forget that we ummmm....agreed....on something.
P.S. oh, and call me a stupid, insulting name...LOL
< Message edited by 4Stangs -- 9/8/2006 12:07:38 PM >
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