I am a Ford fan through and through, but I also call 'em as I see 'em. Over the last month I have seen several gt500's go down the 1/4 mile, and recently saw one being autox'd. If I was Ford i'd be g'danmd embarassed. Several people I have talked to about their recent gt500 purchases are upset. Most all say they expected more car. (I hardly feel sorry for the poor bastards that paid 10k+ over sticker for an early one) Most I see at the track can barely break into the 12's (if that). Lets go back to the 04 cobra vs. 06 gt500 comparison for a sec. For about half as much $, Ford was able to produce a car that performed at a very similar level to the gt500. The only corner Ford cut on the terminator was going with a roots Eaton and not a screw. Several corners have been cut in the gt500, and it still is very pricey for what you get. To me, the terminator was a MUCH BETTER value. Yeah, maybe if you put a gt 500 in a time capsule and open it in 30 years, it might be a good value. In the gt500, Ford produced a marginally performing car for a pretty big price tag. A C6 vette is about the same price as a gt500, and the vette beats it in every category. (BTW, IMO, the C6 vette is possibly the best performance value in the world) Was Ford even attempting to compete with GM? I doubt it; I don't think they cared about anything more thhan making a few bucks. If they did care about this car's performance, they would have done a screw blower and an aluminum block. But those got scrapped because of cost, which backs up my logic. I don't see much aftermarket following with the gt5000 compared to the terminator. Who wants a 4000 lb project drag car (or autox, for that matter). I think that this car will fizzle away pretty fast. My point is that the terminator will live on at the strip and the autox, but the gt500 will not. And that hurts Ford. The gt500 was created for 1 reason and 1 reason only; to make $, exploiting the Shelby name. That's the bottom line.
the cars been out a month dude, i'd be willing to bet the majority of the people on this forum haven't even seen one in person. its a little soon to be righting it off. especially for us ford guys. i think your opinion will be better recieved on a ls1 forum. i personally think the car is badass and has TONS of potential. i say wait until dealerships stop marking the price of the shelby up 50% so that us average mid-class folks can afford to get one. then we'll see.
you know how many dumbass rich guys i've seen at the track that are running high 12's in there new vipers. yeah, exactly. thats a high 11 second car. not everyone that can afford a fast car can drive it. just like the shelby
I am a Ford fan through and through, but I also call 'em as I see 'em. Over the last month I have seen several gt500's go down the 1/4 mile, and recently saw one being autox'd. If I was Ford i'd be g'danmd embarassed. Several people I have talked to about their recent gt500 purchases are upset. Most all say they expected more car. (I hardly feel sorry for the poor bastards that paid 10k+ over sticker for an early one) Most I see at the track can barely break into the 12's (if that). Lets go back to the 04 cobra vs. 06 gt500 comparison for a sec. For about half as much $, Ford was able to produce a car that performed at a very similar level to the gt500. The only corner Ford cut on the terminator was going with a roots Eaton and not a screw. Several corners have been cut in the gt500, and it still is very pricey for what you get. To me, the terminator was a MUCH BETTER value. Yeah, maybe if you put a gt 500 in a time capsule and open it in 30 years, it might be a good value. In the gt500, Ford produced a marginally performing car for a pretty big price tag. A C6 vette is about the same price as a gt500, and the vette beats it in every category. (BTW, IMO, the C6 vette is possibly the best performance value in the world) Was Ford even attempting to compete with GM? I doubt it; I don't think they cared about anything more thhan making a few bucks. If they did care about this car's performance, they would have done a screw blower and an aluminum block. But those got scrapped because of cost, which backs up my logic. I don't see much aftermarket following with the gt5000 compared to the terminator. Who wants a 4000 lb project drag car (or autox, for that matter). I think that this car will fizzle away pretty fast. My point is that the terminator will live on at the strip and the autox, but the gt500 will not. And that hurts Ford. The gt500 was created for 1 reason and 1 reason only; to make $, exploiting the Shelby name. That's the bottom line.
the cars been out a month dude, i'd be willing to bet the majority of the people on this forum haven't even seen one in person. its a little soon to be righting it off. especially for us ford guys. i think your opinion will be better recieved on a ls1 forum. i personally think the car is badass and has TONS of potential. i say wait until dealerships stop marking the price of the shelby up 50% so that us average mid-class folks can afford to get one. then we'll see.
you know how many dumbass rich guys i've seen at the track that are running high 12's in there new vipers. yeah, exactly. thats a high 11 second car. not everyone that can afford a fast car can drive it. just like the shelby
That's just it...Ford left it sort of half-ass in terms of really doing something with the weight of the car to make it shine. Yeah it's got potential but then so does a ford focus. This is supposed to be a flagship vehicle. You dont' build a flagship car to have "potential" you build it to really show what your company can do. Ford GT did that but then it's a flagship car for the entire company, not just the musclecar segment. I agree, while the engine specs are fantastic in the Shelby, the weight of the car gives less than fantastic performance. A car with 100hp less out runs it.
Sure the Vette does cost more if you look at MSRP but then I have yet to hear of anyone getting a Shelby for anywhere near their suggested MSRP. Not knocking the potential of the car but Ford for shooting themselves in the foot and really handicapping the GT500 off the 'starting block' as it were.
wasn't the 4door 'muscle' car that's been out a few years from chyrsler the charger? As for the Impalla, I'm talkin about the FWD one. And I think I meant the new Chevy Impala that is FWD
Yeah the Charger is the new 4 door muscle car they are making. The Challenger will be on the same platform and use the same engines. In regards to the Impala I had a feeling you were talking about the FWD version. Wasn't certain though.
quote:
ORIGINAL: Derf00
That's just it...Ford left it sort of half-ass in terms of really doing something with the weight of the car to make it shine. Yeah it's got potential but then so does a ford focus. This is supposed to be a flagship vehicle. You dont' build a flagship car to have "potential" you build it to really show what your company can do. Ford GT did that but then it's a flagship car for the entire company, not just the musclecar segment. I agree, while the engine specs are fantastic in the Shelby, the weight of the car gives less than fantastic performance. A car with 100hp less out runs it.
Sure the Vette does cost more if you look at MSRP but then I have yet to hear of anyone getting a Shelby for anywhere near their suggested MSRP. Not knocking the potential of the car but Ford for shooting themselves in the foot and really handicapping the GT500 off the 'starting block' as it were.
+1!
I said something similar in another post. This is supposed to be their top Mustang. There shouldn't be much room for improvment. And people stop saying all you need is a tune and DRs. Not everyone wants to deal with the hassles of DRs and if this does turn out to be a collectors car down the line then an unmolested car will bring more money. I don't want potential in a car like this. It should be the best right from the manufacturer.
_____________________________
Steeda Intake, MagnaFlow CatBack Exhaust, X-Pipe/No Cats, Diablo PCM, 2.8" Pulley, Lots Of Kenny Brown Suspension & Chassis Goodies
"I'm slow because I'm a short bus riding window licker."
okay, can anyone in here really back up anything they're saying? has anyone seen one run at the track(other than birdieman4)? as anyone in here even seen one in person? i know until i see one running 13's at the track i'm done on this post. none of ya'll know. everyone is going off of what they're heard or read.
The car does have plenty of potential but I was expecting power out of the box not "potential". That is my mistake, but I think a few other people were thinking the same thing with a car names Mustang Cobra GT500.
The car does have plenty of potential but I was expecting power out of the box not "potential". That is my mistake, but I think a few other people were thinking the same thing with a car names Mustang Cobra GT500.
it has plenty of "power" but it's a big pig in weight
Even though she is a bit porky, there ain't nothing wrong with the GT500. Besides, Evan Smith ran one to a 12.23@118, so don't go blaming the car for other people not being able to drive. You could say the same thing about the Terminator when it first came out; considerably heavier than the GT or Mach and most people were having trouble running low 13s with it. Besides, that motor in it has plenty of potential. When an eventual KB set-up comes out, probably making 650rwhp with supporting mods, then you'll be glad the car weights five gazillion pounds, at least you'll get traction. Besides, there is always weight reduction...
okay, can anyone in here really back up anything they're saying? has anyone seen one run at the track(other than birdieman4)? as anyone in here even seen one in person? i know until i see one running 13's at the track i'm done on this post. none of ya'll know. everyone is going off of what they're heard or read.
My criticism stems from more then one aspect. The car is not balanced and it weighs too much. You and many others seem to be fixated on only one aspect of the car, 1/4 mile time. Most people expect their car to do more then just go in a straight line. This is not a drag car. Manufacturers stopped making those years ago. Car & Driver gave a glowing review of the 03 Cobra saying it was the best Mustang they ever drove and the only one that was balanced and didn't plow like a John Deere. John Colletti said he didn't want a one trick pony and that's why it turned out so well. The magazines are not being one sided as you might think. They are simply comparing this car to what's out there on the market.
_____________________________
Steeda Intake, MagnaFlow CatBack Exhaust, X-Pipe/No Cats, Diablo PCM, 2.8" Pulley, Lots Of Kenny Brown Suspension & Chassis Goodies
"I'm slow because I'm a short bus riding window licker."
Even though she is a bit porky, there ain't nothing wrong with the GT500. Besides, Evan Smith ran one to a 12.23@118, so don't go blaming the car for other people not being able to drive. You could say the same thing about the Terminator when it first came out; considerably heavier than the GT or Mach and most people were having trouble running low 13s with it. Besides, that motor in it has plenty of potential. When an eventual KB set-up comes out, probably making 650rwhp with supporting mods, then you'll be glad the car weights five gazillion pounds, at least you'll get traction. Besides, there is always weight reduction...
I keep seeing his name and didn't know who he was so I looked him up. It's not exactly fair to use a guy who works for a magazine that deals strictly with Fords and is also a professional drag racer as an example. With as much experience as he has I would expect amazing things from of him.
_____________________________
Steeda Intake, MagnaFlow CatBack Exhaust, X-Pipe/No Cats, Diablo PCM, 2.8" Pulley, Lots Of Kenny Brown Suspension & Chassis Goodies
"I'm slow because I'm a short bus riding window licker."
That's another good point the Shelby's front/rear weight ratio is way out of whack with say a Corvette or even the Mustang GT because of the GT500's added weight in the nose from the 5.4L and SC system which throws the balance out even further. Ford did great on the Look of the car and the engine but left the rest half-assed.
C&D Corvette vs Shelby GT500 Comparo
(talking about what makes the Shelby fatter than the Mustang GT)...That adds up to 321 more pounds than the last Mustang GT we tested and a more forward weight bias, degrading from 52.5/47.5 percent to 57.7/42.3 percent.
The Vette is not only 616 pounds lighter but also splits its weight 51.9/48.1 percent front to rear. That more even distribution means more traction off the line, stronger braking, and better handling balance.
Those are Facts not opinions or things that can be fudged like 1/4 mile times etc.
quote:
ORIGINAL: breyton
quote:
ORIGINAL: steele901
okay, can anyone in here really back up anything they're saying? has anyone seen one run at the track(other than birdieman4)? as anyone in here even seen one in person? i know until i see one running 13's at the track i'm done on this post. none of ya'll know. everyone is going off of what they're heard or read.
My criticism stems from more then one aspect. The car is not balanced and it weighs too much. You and many others seem to be fixated on only one aspect of the car, 1/4 mile time. Most people expect their car to do more then just go in a straight line. This is not a drag car. Manufacturers stopped making those years ago. Car & Driver gave a glowing review of the 03 Cobra saying it was the best Mustang they ever drove and the only one that was balanced and didn't plow like a John Deere. John Colletti said he didn't want a one trick pony and that's why it turned out so well. The magazines are not being one sided as you might think. They are simply comparing this car to what's out there on the market.
That's another good point the Shelby's front/rear weight ratio is way out of whack with say a Corvette or even the Mustang GT because of the GT500's added weight in the nose from the 5.4L and SC system which throws the balance out even further. Ford did great on the Look of the car and the engine but left the rest half-assed.
C&D Corvette vs Shelby GT500 Comparo
(talking about what makes the Shelby fatter than the Mustang GT)...That adds up to 321 more pounds than the last Mustang GT we tested and a more forward weight bias, degrading from 52.5/47.5 percent to 57.7/42.3 percent.
The Vette is not only 616 pounds lighter but also splits its weight 51.9/48.1 percent front to rear. That more even distribution means more traction off the line, stronger braking, and better handling balance.
Those are Facts not opinions or things that can be fudged like 1/4 mile times etc.
quote:
ORIGINAL: breyton
quote:
ORIGINAL: steele901
okay, can anyone in here really back up anything they're saying? has anyone seen one run at the track(other than birdieman4)? as anyone in here even seen one in person? i know until i see one running 13's at the track i'm done on this post. none of ya'll know. everyone is going off of what they're heard or read.
My criticism stems from more then one aspect. The car is not balanced and it weighs too much. You and many others seem to be fixated on only one aspect of the car, 1/4 mile time. Most people expect their car to do more then just go in a straight line. This is not a drag car. Manufacturers stopped making those years ago. Car & Driver gave a glowing review of the 03 Cobra saying it was the best Mustang they ever drove and the only one that was balanced and didn't plow like a John Deere. John Colletti said he didn't want a one trick pony and that's why it turned out so well. The magazines are not being one sided as you might think. They are simply comparing this car to what's out there on the market.
Thanks Derf. I remember that article quite well. Have you read any reviews of the Supercharged Roush Mustangs. They have been quite good and since they are based on the GT, WAY lighter. The GT has plenty of potential handling wise as proved by the Steeda suspension package and the cammer Mustang GT that Ford sells for road racing.
_____________________________
Steeda Intake, MagnaFlow CatBack Exhaust, X-Pipe/No Cats, Diablo PCM, 2.8" Pulley, Lots Of Kenny Brown Suspension & Chassis Goodies
"I'm slow because I'm a short bus riding window licker."
If not everyone wants these cars as drag cars, why do 99.9% of the 03-04 Cobras I see have thier IRS tied together with a bar (I don't know it's correct name, lol!!)??? Because the IRS sucks for drag racing. And why does the GT500 NOT have an IRS?? because the previous generation of Cobra (03-04) owners didn't like it. Only the crap sacks at Car and Driver (who have never liked ANY decent car, but have never met an import they don't love) actually liked it. To me, it was Ford listening to what people wanted. But yeah, it should be lighter!!!!
Perhaps Ford is listening and a GT500-R will be on the horizon!! That would be sweet.
They also have to change color schemes. No white with red stripes option??? Come on now Ford!!! Also, bring back the Mystic's!!!! A GT500-R Mystic coupe would make me man-whore if I had to!!!
< Message edited by STANMAN -- 9/7/2006 7:34:18 PM >
If not everyone wants these cars as drag cars, why do 99.9% of the 03-04 Cobras I see have thier IRS tied together with a bar (I don't know what it's correct name, lol!!)??? Because the IRS sucks for drag racing. And why does the GT500 NOT have an IRS?? because the previous generation of Cobra (03-04) owners didn't like it. Only the crap sacks at Car and Driver (who have never liked ANY decent car, but have never met an import they don't love) actually liked it. To me, it was Ford listening to what people wanted. But yeah, it should be lighter!!!!
Perhaps Ford is listening and a GT500-R will be on the horizon!! That would be sweet.
They also have to change color schemes. No white with red stripes option??? Come on now Ford!!! Also, bring back the Mystic's!!!! A GT500-R Mystic coupe would make me man-whore if I had to!!!
lighter and have better weight distribution... at least to match the existing Mustang GT which is pretty well balanced 'out of the box' for a RWD car and not a lot of techno crap in teh frame. (unlike vette)
edit: The IRS in the Cobras was meant to make it more of a 'streetable' car. It back fired on Ford because they forgot about the whole idea of a muscle car. The newer S197 bodys keep the live axle and enhance it with the pan hard and a few other items. What htey should have done with the 03-04 Cobra's. Yes Ford does eventually listen to its customers, it just takes a few tries which in car years means oh...a decade or two.
< Message edited by Derf00 -- 9/7/2006 6:39:43 PM >
Team MF Member #420 Posts: 14532
Joined: 7/24/2003 Status: offline
quote:
ORIGINAL: Birdieman4 The gt500 was created for 1 reason and 1 reason only; to make $, exploiting the Shelby name. That's the bottom line.
I respect your review and opinion on this car!
Just recently I have tossed around the idea of selling my Terminator and picking up a Shelby GT500 this winter or next spring and the more I see people post about the car, the more I plan on keeping my 04 Cobra. I was just talking to another GT500 owner that also has a 03/04 Cobra and he said he enjoys his 03/04 Cobra much better, said it even feels faster & handles better stock than the GT500. I've never compared magazine numbers, but I believe every word this guy said.
I believe that GM is much more concerned about leaving a legacy and building a Super Car that's affordable to the middle class man. Ford like you said, seems to be out to exploit the Shelby name (Shelby is guilty himself) and to bank on the $$.
_____________________________
Black 04 Cobra For Sale. Will trade for 93 older/non 4-eye fox + $$.
okay, can anyone in here really back up anything they're saying? has anyone seen one run at the track(other than birdieman4)? as anyone in here even seen one in person? i know until i see one running 13's at the track i'm done on this post. none of ya'll know. everyone is going off of what they're heard or read.
My criticism stems from more then one aspect. The car is not balanced and it weighs too much. You and many others seem to be fixated on only one aspect of the car, 1/4 mile time. Most people expect their car to do more then just go in a straight line. This is not a drag car. Manufacturers stopped making those years ago. Car & Driver gave a glowing review of the 03 Cobra saying it was the best Mustang they ever drove and the only one that was balanced and didn't plow like a John Deere. John Colletti said he didn't want a one trick pony and that's why it turned out so well. The magazines are not being one sided as you might think. They are simply comparing this car to what's out there on the market.
man, no body buys a cobra to because it handles well. people buy a cobra to beat some ass in the straight line. people that are that concerned about handling buy corvettes. i know if i was looking for an autoX car i wouldn't even consider a mustang.
Team MF Member #2046 Posts: 12516
Joined: 1/22/2004 From: United States Status: offline
If you cannot get a GT500 deep into the 12s bone stock, you need to take the car back.
Don't blame ford because people cannot drive. Evan smith got one with the TRACTION CONTROL ON to run deep 12s. Jeez.
Seriously, all of you guys bitch about the weight (and yes, it would be nice if it were down some) but it will outrun ANY stock mustang ever built before. It will respond better to simple mods than any stock mustang ever before, it will make more horsepower with the factory equipment tuned (and lets say pullied) than ever before, and it will make more power with a few aftermarket items (like a twin screw) than ever before.
WHAT are you bitching about? It looks awsome, will bury a 03/04 cobra on the strip and the circle course, comes with a stick axle (instead of the ****ty IRS). It has a 5.4L (finnally more displacment FTW) and a better stock blower than the 03/04 cars.
If you really buy a GT500 to go to the drag strip, install a set of 4.10s and a tune and run 11s.
BTW, the corvette comparason is bogus. Not only does GM loose money on EVERY vette it sells (alot) but its not even close to the same price range. MSRP of what, 40K vs 50K+ (if you get any options on the vette).
Everyone compares the vette and says, why can't anyone else offer the same value per dollar? GM IS LOOSING MONEY ON IT!!!! At least ford is not literally sending 3 to 5 thousand dollars per mustang out the door.
Aside from the arguing for one second... got a question that I would like to see everyone address.
You ALL talk about how Ford messed up, Ford did'nt do it right. Ford should have made more out of it, they left too much potential in it.
Now, for the question. Who in there right mind actually think that the executives at Ford give two SHATS about what anyone who bought this car thinks? They had 1 goal, to sell this car with a price tag. And believe me, they did.
All this bickering about how dissapointed they are with the car and the company needs to change things. Not gonna happen. Like I said earlier, this car is'nt meant for me and you (IE: the masses) so why in the hell would they care what anyone thinks about it?
Now, if they fcuk up the next GT or something, or continue to deny us a model above the GT (like the last 3 years) then I will understand all the bitching about "ford".
_____________________________
Hopefully running by the weekend. Gonna run her good too!
Like I said earlier, this car is'nt meant for me and you (IE: the masses)
And neither is the Corvette. I am sure we can all agree on that. Even with GM selling it at a loss, it's a $50,000+ sports car.
And for what it's worth, the base sticker price is $40,930 and there are just 3 options: $1295 for the audio system, $595 for for the premium interior trim package and $195 for sat radio.
< Message edited by BicketyBam -- 9/7/2006 11:17:11 PM >
Team MF Member #001 Posts: 2392
Joined: 8/1/2005 From: Whitehall, Michigan Status: offline
I wish the GT500 were more, so more people would be dropping their 03/04 cobras at a great price for them
In all honesty, I've heard a lot of disappointment about them but I think everyone was expecting too much, it was a bit overhyped. I still think time will tell for the GT500. There has to be some weight reduction available, it's tough to understand how it picked up so much weight... Lose some weight, especially in the front end, and we'll have a much better platform.
Dan, if you go to sell the Cobra, you'll have a very interested buyer right here Totally serious, your Cobra is exactly what I've been looking for. If/when you go to sell it, drop me a PM.
Printable Version
RE: GT500 -ford's big mistake? - 
at least to match the existing Mustang GT which is pretty well balanced 'out of the box' for a RWD car and not a lot of techno crap in teh frame. (unlike vette) 
