Posts: 369
Joined: 2/20/2006 From: Denver, CO Status: offline
I'm finally getting around to putting a CAI on my 05 GT and I've narrowed it down to a C&L + SCT XCal 2 Tuner package from Brenspeed. However, maybe you can help me out from here...
The new plastic 95MM "Racer" version is $75 cheaper than the older metal 83MM "Street" version. If looks don't matter to me, is there any reason to pay more for the metal "Street" version? The "Racer" version says it for higher performance vehicles (i.e. supercharged, nitrous, etc.). But will there be any draw back to getting the less expensive 95MM "Racer" version versus the 83MM "Street" version.
I realize there may be not more gains by going to the "Racer" version for me (as I won't be putting a supercharger or nitrous in), but I just want to make sure its not going to loose power because of it.
I'm finally getting around to putting a CAI on my 05 GT and I've narrowed it down to a C&L + SCT XCal 2 Tuner package from Brenspeed. However, maybe you can help me out from here...
The new plastic 95MM "Racer" version is $75 cheaper than the older metal 83MM "Street" version. If looks don't matter to me, is there any reason to pay more for the metal "Street" version? The "Racer" version says it for higher performance vehicles (i.e. supercharged, nitrous, etc.). But will there be any draw back to getting the less expensive 95MM "Racer" version versus the 83MM "Street" version.
I realize there may be not more gains by going to the "Racer" version for me (as I won't be putting a supercharger or nitrous in), but I just want to make sure its not going to loose power because of it.
All comments and help are greatly appreciated.
Thanks,
J
Just got my Street version yesterday and I love it so far, and the look is awesome. I believe the street gets a few more hp also. I chose the street because of the aluminum tube though and not the plastic one, IMO it just looks better. Plus if you ever change your mind and want to do nitrous in the future, you cant do it with the racer version.
I don't know but I would think the Street would hold heat more so the racer should perform better. Anyone know if this is true?
I think heat is a mute issue. With this type of induction, you are taking the air strait from the engine bay, which is hot to begin with. Technically it is not a Cold Air Induction kit. You will see the same performance with both. The racer will have advantages over the street version only when connected to a supercharger because it allows more air to be pulled through the pipe.
The new plastic 95MM "Racer" version is $75 cheaper than the older metal 83MM "Street" version. If looks don't matter to me, is there any reason to pay more for the metal "Street" version? The "Racer" version says it for higher performance vehicles (i.e. supercharged, nitrous, etc.). But will there be any draw back to getting the less expensive 95MM "Racer" version versus the 83MM "Street" version.
I J
If looks don't matter and you have no brand preferance go JLT. It cheaper than both of them and makes identical power. Evolution has the best deals I've seen on them and Fred has some good tunes, some of the best out there actually.
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Black 06 GT 5-Speed premium IUP JLT CAI/EVO tune, borla,FRPP 4.10s, Trutrac, Steeda, Eibach, Tokico, CHE, Centerforce, Findaza, Spydershaft, two bad feet in the cockpit, to be continued...
Street .. unless you are going to get a S/C one day...!!! then you will need the racer .. going thru it now... ( have street , bought S/C..now need racer )
JMO
Rex
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06 GT Auto, Redfire Metallic, With ALL the toys.. C&L w/ SCT & custom tune. FRPP 3.73's.
Posts: 369
Joined: 2/20/2006 From: Denver, CO Status: offline
Okay, just so I understand you guys right, I should go with the Street even though it's more $? Is there any drawback to just getting the Racer now? Will the increased size of the Racer be of any negative effect to a non-S/C setup?
Street .. unless you are going to get a S/C one day...!!! then you will need the racer .. going thru it now... ( have street , bought S/C..now need racer )
JMO
Rex
Maybe Im misunderstanding something but why would you need to switch to the racer if you got a SC? From what I understand the street is the one that is N2O capable.. so what happened if you had nitrous and then you got a SC.. do you just.. lose your nitrous because now you had to switch from the street to the racer???
The racer tube is larger, thus allowing more air delivery to the supercharger. That is why you want the racer tube on a SC car. I actually picked up nearly 1.5 psi at WOT when I changed to the racer tube.
If you intend on staying NA, get the street version. The racer version will cost you a couple of HP because of it's size. The engine will have more airflow available to it with the race version, but the down size is it won't have the same volicity going in to the throttle body. That is why it makes less hp on NA.
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2005 GT Premium, all options.
Performance mods: Lets just say it's not stock
Some people are like Slinkies. They're really good for nothing. But they still bring a smile to your face when you push them down a flight of stairs.
I don't know but I would think the Street would hold heat more so the racer should perform better. Anyone know if this is true?
Actually since the metal is denser it would technically (in a perfect world) be cooler inside the aluminum tube than the plastic, as it takes longer for heat to heat up aluminum than plastic. However, air is moving so fast through the intake tube that its not even in there long enough to make a difference.
not really
The aluminum has a higher coefficeint of heat(that means it will transfer heat faster). Both intakes will heat up either way. The issue is the aluminum is able to transfer more heat to the incoming air. Heat soak will be minimal and I really wouldn't worry about it on the majority of cars. It's not that the air is moving so fast; it's just surface area. The surface area of the intake is not like that of an intercooler.
The larger volume of the Race intake should be reserved for engines running over 400hp. Will you notice 1-2hp? NO
I don't know but I would think the Street would hold heat more so the racer should perform better. Anyone know if this is true?
Actually since the metal is denser it would technically (in a perfect world) be cooler inside the aluminum tube than the plastic, as it takes longer for heat to heat up aluminum than plastic. However, air is moving so fast through the intake tube that its not even in there long enough to make a difference.
not really
The aluminum has a higher coefficeint of heat(that means it will transfer heat faster). Both intakes will heat up either way. The issue is the aluminum is able to transfer more heat to the incoming air. Heat soak will be minimal and I really wouldn't worry about it on the majority of cars. It's not that the air is moving so fast; it's just surface area. The surface area of the intake is not like that of an intercooler.
The larger volume of the Race intake should be reserved for engines running over 400hp. Will you notice 1-2hp? NO
I dont get it.. I thought since it was aluminum its denser than the plastic therefore it will take longer for it to heat up than the plastic would...
I realize that once heated it will be able to transfer more heat than the plastic would but shouldnt it also take longer to heat up than the plastic.. which would mean it would remain colder for a longer period of time than the plastic (and as a result hotter for a longer period also)
< Message edited by bl1nkage -- 7/11/2006 9:17:43 PM >
ORIGINAL: bl1nkage I dont get it.. I thought since it was aluminum its denser than the plastic therefore it will take longer for it to heat up than the plastic would...
I realize that once heated it will be able to transfer more heat than the plastic would but shouldnt it also take longer to heat up than the plastic.. which would mean it would remain colder for a longer period of time than the plastic (and as a result hotter for a longer period also)
Plastic == insulator Aluminum == conductor (very good one at that - thus its use as heatsinks)
So, at any given time heat will move into, through and out of Aluminum faster than plastic...
Or more to your point, the Alum will more quickly achive an "average" (of all the heat engery to which it is exposed) as it is able to move the heat in MUCH faster than plastic. It is able to move it out faster as well, but it is averaging something rather hot with something relatively cool... So, it gets hot fast...
The plastic fails to move the heatin in the first place - thus it heats slowly...
< Message edited by cekim -- 7/11/2006 9:37:51 PM >
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'06 GT Convertible Saleen S/C '05 GT Coupe - build in progress '85 GT T-Top 351W
Well, I am sure there is a breaking point in there somewhere, but Alum is such a profoundly better conductor that my guess is that width would be something close to saran wrap...
I became an EE precisely so I could avoid theromdynamics
So, someone else will have to work out the exact numbers for you, but I can say from my world of heat sinks that there is no useable thickness of plastic that would tip the balance in favor of plastic and still withstand that amount of heat for any length of time while still conducting heat...
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'06 GT Convertible Saleen S/C '05 GT Coupe - build in progress '85 GT T-Top 351W
Well, I am sure there is a breaking point in there somewhere, but Alum is such a profoundly better conductor that my guess is that width would be something close to saran wrap...
I became an EE precisely so I could avoid theromdynamics
So, someone else will have to work out the exact numbers for you, but I can say from my world of heat sinks that there is no useable thickness of plastic that would tip the balance in favor of plastic and still withstand that amount of heat for any length of time while still conducting heat...
Heh, yeah Im in school to become a ME, so Ill have to learn it sooner or later, not much difference learning it now from someone here, or 6 months from now from a book.
Well, I am sure there is a breaking point in there somewhere, but Alum is such a profoundly better conductor that my guess is that width would be something close to saran wrap...
I became an EE precisely so I could avoid thermodynamics
So, someone else will have to work out the exact numbers for you, but I can say from my world of heat sinks that there is no useable thickness of plastic that would tip the balance in favor of plastic and still withstand that amount of heat for any length of time while still conducting heat...
Heh, yeah Im in school to become a ME, so Ill have to learn it sooner or later, not much difference learning it now from someone here, or 6 months from now from a book.
So, the lesson here is warm up the engine, install a cool plastic snorkel fresh from the freezer/dry-ice, then do your dyno real-quick before the plastic plenum heats up... For a little while it will be cooler inside...
Then you can post big numbers in your ad
As for studying thermo - it is often a "weed-out" course for multiple disciplines of engineering... have fun!
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'06 GT Convertible Saleen S/C '05 GT Coupe - build in progress '85 GT T-Top 351W
1) Aluminum is an excellent conductor of heat. As someone posted earlier, this is one of the reasons why it makes good heat sinks. But, this is a two-edged sword. It means that your intake pipe will heat up faster, but it will also cool down faster. Heat sinks are only meaningful whenever there is a temperature "hot spot"...for example when an object, such as a computer chip, is hotter than its surroundings...and that doesn't really apply under the hood:
2) It is already known that once your car starts moving the underhood temps drop very quickly.
My conclusion is that the "heat" factor of the intake is very minor. The reasoning goes like this. The intake will only heat up appreciably whenever the underhood area is hot--and that's when you're at a stop (at a light, for example). At that time the intake will begin to heat up. As soon as you start moving, the underhood air temps drop and the intake temp drops also as it looses heat to the air which enters your engine. During this brief time period, the aluminum (street) intake will dump its heat into the intake of your motor faster than a plastic intake would. However, I'm willing to bet that this will be so little heat and it will happen so fast that I doubt you'd ever notice it, even on the best of dynos.
Therefore, I'd make my decision based on the other factors:
Cost: Street is more expensive. Weight: Street is heavier. Durability: Street is stronger. Mod-ability: It is much easier to put a NOS nozzle in the street intake becasue the aluminum will hold threads very easily. Performance: Street is better on a stock-ish engine; Racer may be better on a highly modded engine.
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Black 2006 GT Coupe Dynatech LT headers & X; Borla catback C&L CAI; 93 oct tune Full BMR, Spohn & Steeda suspension D-Specs; Alum driveshaft Second Skin Audio damping; Infinity spkrs; Goodyear Eagle F1 255F/295R - FR500 wheels
for example when an object, such as a computer chip, is hotter than its surroundings...and that doesn't really apply under the hood:
Oh, well you wanted to keep this conversation on point? sheesh...
No argument here, we were just discussing thermal conductivity/resistivity...
never got to what that meant re: plastic or Al.
Speaking of all the non-factors as it all gets washed out in the noise...
I am starting to wonder how much of the gains from these things isn't just the filter element and the tune?
There is no question that some ET improvements can be shown - those mean something, but they are cluttered with other factors (drivers, tires, temp etc...).
There is also no question that the dyno shows improvements from most CAI...
The trouble is that in this arena, the dyno is a lousy measure of real performance gains: a. the hood is open b. there is no air-flow from movement
Kenne Bell has a lot of bad things to say about CAI specifically because of the draw of underhood air vs fender air...
In a "real" use of power for the purposes of speed, those args make a lot of sense...
I am wondering if anyone has ever put the time into a tune of the stock box + low restriction filter?
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'06 GT Convertible Saleen S/C '05 GT Coupe - build in progress '85 GT T-Top 351W
Printable Version
"Racer" or "Street" C&L CAI - 
RE: "Racer" or "Street" C&L CAI - 
not really 
