Yeah so see I was semi-right just backwards... the plastic is what heats up slower but also cools down slower. But yeah Al is right there is very little difference in the performance from what people say. I just made my decision because IMO the street version looks better and I felt safer with the aluminum than the plastic. Besides... I dont even think the aluminum weighs all that much more.. compared to the stock air box it it definately wasnt more than a few lbs heavier. Then again I have no idea what the plastic one weighs.
Also.. in order to make the aluminum more...insulated.. couldnt you just wrap some armaflex or something of that sort around it or would that not be wise because of heat? (Not saying I want to do it just curious now that we got on the subject of insulation and thermo)
And yeah Im kinda curious about where else the intake could be mounted for better air flow.. I would think in the wheel well would be prone to getting wet.
The whole aluminum Vs. plastic arguement is a moot point. The air molecules do not stay in the tube long enough for the heat to transfer to the air. The amount of heat transfer is dependent on many things; and one of those variables is time. And the time an air molecule spends in that intake tube is ridiculously small. Let's assume a 300 cubic feet per minute (cfm) air flow rate. And, let's assume the CAI tube has a 4" I.D. and is 16" long, which would be about 200 cubic inches (or about 0.115 cubic feet). That means the the air in the tube changes about 2600 times per minute. In other words, the air is only in the tube for 0.02 sec. There just isn't enough heat transfer occurring to make any measurable impact on the intake air temp. if we look at the path air travels -- from the air filter to the intake valve -- where is the least amount of heat transfer taking place? I say it is the intake tube... so the material it is made out of is irrelevant. In my opinion, having the air filter in the engine bay (even shrouded) is most certainly contributing much much more heat to the intake air temp than any sort of heat transfer from the tube. If you're sucking up extremely hot air to begin with, what does it matter what the tube is made out of?
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2005 GT Premium, all options.
Performance mods: Lets just say it's not stock
Some people are like Slinkies. They're really good for nothing. But they still bring a smile to your face when you push them down a flight of stairs.
ORIGINAL: hawgman much more heat to the intake air temp than any sort of heat transfer from the tube. If you're sucking up extremely hot air to begin with, what does it matter what the tube is made out of?
Agreed - so is the lack of data on stock box + tune + good filter because a. I missed it? b. someone tried it and it sucked (well, er, uh - performed poorly)? or c. they quickly discovered that they can build a $1 tube and sell it for $250 and it even looks better on the dyno than it really is?
I am looking for a 3 stage before and after with ETs 1. stock 2. stock + tune + good filter element 3. stock + tune + CAI
Anyone seen such a thing?
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'06 GT Convertible Saleen S/C '05 GT Coupe - build in progress '85 GT T-Top 351W
Agreed - so is the lack of data on stock box + tune + good filter because a. I missed it? b. someone tried it and it sucked (well, er, uh - performed poorly)? or c. they quickly discovered that they can build a $1 tube and sell it for $250 and it even looks better on the dyno than it really is?
I am looking for a 3 stage before and after with ETs 1. stock 2. stock + tune + good filter element 3. stock + tune + CAI
Anyone seen such a thing?
Don't remember what month, but dig through some old MM&FF mags, like from a year ago or so when aftermarket parts first started hitting the streets for the S197s, they had info like what you are looking for.
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2005 GT Premium, all options.
Performance mods: Lets just say it's not stock
Some people are like Slinkies. They're really good for nothing. But they still bring a smile to your face when you push them down a flight of stairs.
Just do a search for Cold Score in Google and it'll pop up. Good read.
As far as race versus street. For a non modified car the street is the more practical choice. If you look at the dyno charts on the C&L website you can see that the low and midrange (under 3k RPMs) are making less power, in some cases 20 less. The runs are close but not identical so there is obviously some variance there but the difference is noticable enough for me to agree with C&L's recommendation that you are likely better off with the street.
FWIW I have a brand spaking new C&L racer intake kit (I have a diablo tuner here) that was misshipped to me by RPM Outlet and they're trying to screw me over. I may be interested in selling it.
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06 Vista Blue GT - Dark IUP, Auto, Shaker 500, Charcoal Leather, 18" Polished, Full load. Purchased 5/31/06. Mods: Flowmaster Axle Back, CDC Sequentials, Shorty Antenna, JBL GTO Speakers, more in the mail!
Much like most, they focus on dyno. I am not questioning the dyno gains...
I am just wondering what can be seen at the track and on the road? More specifically, whether there is any artificial gains seen at the dyno that I won't be able to enjoy on random roads here and there where I get the bulk of my right-foot-induced smiles...
By the time most publish numbers, it is stock vs this or that CAI+tune and I have not as of yet isolated the "tune" and "filter" part of that from the pretty plastic snorkel.
I'll keep looking...
< Message edited by cekim -- 7/12/2006 11:25:15 AM >
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'06 GT Convertible Saleen S/C '05 GT Coupe - build in progress '85 GT T-Top 351W
Well you could likely half the gains each way. One way to see this is on the Cold Score article to look at the K&N versus tuner and see the difference. Most people trying out just the tuner by itself with a stock airbox have reported around 15 or so HP on the dyno.
Now artifical gains on the dyno? Not sure what you mean there. HP to the ground is HP to the ground. It's well known that 20HP+ is noticable when you drive, and 20HP equates to typically 2 tenths off in the quarter mile so those are benefits you can see right up front.
No snake oil going on here. The intake helps the performance and the tuner is really needed to make sure the motor doesn't lunch itself over time because it's running to rich or lean.
The WMS system does pretty impressive non tuner numbers (around 20HP) and gains another 5-8 HP with a tuner so that should give you some more idea as well.
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06 Vista Blue GT - Dark IUP, Auto, Shaker 500, Charcoal Leather, 18" Polished, Full load. Purchased 5/31/06. Mods: Flowmaster Axle Back, CDC Sequentials, Shorty Antenna, JBL GTO Speakers, more in the mail!
I am still torn between the racer and the street. I think I like the looks of the racer better. But that is just my opinion. But the last thing I would want is the plastic unit to crack or warp. Quality is a must.
The weight of the street unit is a bit concerning as it doesent need to be made out of aluminum if not running nitrous.
Then of course the cost difference is another thing to consider.
According to Brent at Brenspeed. He claims he found a 3hp difference between them an likes the street one himself as he is running nitrous.
Posts: 307
Joined: 3/20/2006 From: Louisville, KY Status: offline
quote:
ORIGINAL: cekim
Well, I am sure there is a breaking point in there somewhere, but Alum is such a profoundly better conductor that my guess is that width would be something close to saran wrap...
I became an EE precisely so I could avoid theromdynamics
So, someone else will have to work out the exact numbers for you, but I can say from my world of heat sinks that there is no useable thickness of plastic that would tip the balance in favor of plastic and still withstand that amount of heat for any length of time while still conducting heat...
Well i'm a ME just because the only thing I could figure out with the very few EE classes i took was "the laws that govern electrical engineering are nothing more then magic" haha, jk. i could never be a EE if my life depended on it. i'll stick with mechanical...
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-2006 Performance white, GT, Manual, IUP, Red Leather... -Pype's Violators, BMR Strut Brace, -MGW stuff on the inside
Frankly, I dont do much programming. Never got what I would call proficient at it. I can drag through it, but its one of those things I cant stand doing but once in a while I will tackle the code for a small project we are doing. Mostly we use "C" along with the TI MSP430 processor package in all out stuff.
But we use C, VC++ or V.basic occasionally, matlab, etc. All the normal necisarry evils.
ORIGINAL: Cowtown Now artifical gains on the dyno? Not sure what you mean there. HP to the ground is HP to the ground. It's well known that 20HP+ is noticable when you drive, and 20HP equates to typically 2 tenths off in the quarter mile so those are benefits you can see right up front.
I mean the equivalent of icing down your intake...
yeah, it sure does work... but unless you install some happy gas to do it while running, it doesn't provide power once the heat comes back in...
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'06 GT Convertible Saleen S/C '05 GT Coupe - build in progress '85 GT T-Top 351W
ORIGINAL: classj What is most amazing about the EE degree is how little of it you use on a daily basis.
+1 - spend all of my time writing C/C++, Verilog, VHDL, Perl you name it to model digital hardware...
You need to understand what is going on underneath to do it right (which it seems the EEs coming out of school miss as they start at the java level and assume the phyisics will take care of itself!), but it has been quite a few years since the last time I did a fourier transform...
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'06 GT Convertible Saleen S/C '05 GT Coupe - build in progress '85 GT T-Top 351W
I figure at some point I am wasting so much time thinking about it, that I might as well... Its a "productivity" issue now... Hell, might even be deductable!
Ya see - I can't even type any more... I have to do this...
< Message edited by cekim -- 7/12/2006 11:11:41 PM >
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'06 GT Convertible Saleen S/C '05 GT Coupe - build in progress '85 GT T-Top 351W
So, these data points, if valid would seem to at least partly vindicate what I have been suggesting which is that it is mostly about the tune and not the pretty pipe:
Anyone here used this stuff? Looks rather interesting to the control freak in me?
Without a handy dyno though, what I really want is a true closed loop system that is ALWAYS adjusting for ideal A/F&power... Tables updating constantly for air temp and density... (it would take a bit more compute power than is in those boxes now - I suspect - but you could even forgo the table entirely...)
Plenty of digital hardware out there more than capable - it should come down to: a. failsafe/fault tolerance b. cost of sensors for mass production
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'06 GT Convertible Saleen S/C '05 GT Coupe - build in progress '85 GT T-Top 351W
Printable Version
RE: "Racer" or "Street" C&L CAI - 
