A lot of people on this site (often times those crazy GM guys) try to make an issue of achieving power with a naturally aspirated motor over a smaller motor with a blower. They will often argue that the N/A setup is better. Statements like, "yeah, Ford needs to throw a blower on their setup to make the power they need to keep up with GM's" are usually directed toward the fact that the 'bigger' GM motors make more power than the smaller modular motors. Yep, the bigger the motor, the more power it will make. What makes this a better setup? News flash for the GM whiners. It's not a better setup, and here's why. First, the bigger the motor, the heavier it is. A big block setup weighs more than a small block setup, often times even adding a blower's weight and accessories into the mix. Second, the blown modular setup is cheaper and easier to get more added hp if wanted. (change the pulley and tune- good to go) With a n/a big block, increased horses are tougher to come by. One point people may try to make herer is that if you want BIG power, you have more potential in the bigger motor. True, but what is considered BIG power? I can hear someone saying "you could never make 1100hp on Ford's 5.4". Let's be realistic here. A 1100 hp street car is hardly streetable. Point being, you could make all the hp you wanted (or needed) on a blown modular setup. Other's might say, "there are more potential problems with a blown motor than a n/a motor. This is really a fallacy too. The reliability of today's blowers is unbelievable, and it all comes down to tuning. So, for all you GM guys that argue, "Ford needs a blower to keep up with GM", of course they do; they have less cubes. Bottom line; I can think of a number reasons why the blown setup is better than the n/a bigger motor.
Not to mention that the REALLY awesome big block stuff is VERY expensive. I was pricing out some USED 429 heads......$1700 .ouch. I can only imagine what some badass aftermarket heads would cost. 1 more thing I can think of about a small block being better....you can achieve higher rpm's. Ever hear a 302 spin 10k... I helped a guy build one.....sounds freakin SICK, damn fast too, got kinda scary when we took out the sway bars. -P.
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Joined: 11/16/2005 From: St. Paul, MN Status: offline
1000hp is a 1000hp the difference is going to be in the power curve. A big block is going to be instant torque the second you hit the gas. The difference is also going to be in the car that it's in.
< Message edited by amoosenamedhank -- 6/29/2006 4:19:17 PM >
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A lot of people on this site (often times those crazy GM guys) try to make an issue of achieving power with a naturally aspirated motor over a smaller motor with a blower. They will often argue that the N/A setup is better. Statements like, "yeah, Ford needs to throw a blower on their setup to make the power they need to keep up with GM's" are usually directed toward the fact that the 'bigger' GM motors make more power than the smaller modular motors. Yep, the bigger the motor, the more power it will make. What makes this a better setup? News flash for the GM whiners. It's not a better setup, and here's why. First, the bigger the motor, the heavier it is. A big block setup weighs more than a small block setup, often times even adding a blower's weight and accessories into the mix. Second, the blown modular setup is cheaper and easier to get more added hp if wanted. (change the pulley and tune- good to go) With a n/a big block, increased horses are tougher to come by. One point people may try to make herer is that if you want BIG power, you have more potential in the bigger motor. True, but what is considered BIG power? I can hear someone saying "you could never make 1100hp on Ford's 5.4". Let's be realistic here. A 1100 hp street car is hardly streetable. Point being, you could make all the hp you wanted (or needed) on a blown modular setup. Other's might say, "there are more potential problems with a blown motor than a n/a motor. This is really a fallacy too. The reliability of today's blowers is unbelievable, and it all comes down to tuning. So, for all you GM guys that argue, "Ford needs a blower to keep up with GM", of course they do; they have less cubes. Bottom line; I can think of a number reasons why the blown setup is better than the n/a bigger motor.
Why did you have to say that? Have you ever had a GM block? Technically the engines found in F-bodys and Vettes are small blocks. They are not "big blocks" as you call them. I will guarantee that the 5.7L engine in my Z06 wieghs less than the 4.6L one in my GT. Dissplacement doesn't always mean more wieght. Why would the GM guys be whinners? They have been winning the street races for decades now. Heres a prediction for you a 1998 stock camaro will still be faster than a 2008 stock Mustang GT. That means that even after 10 years the GT still comes in 2nd place. So according to my assumptions the GM guys have something to be proud of for a long time. Ford will get the hint and go for larger dissplacement soner or later. The GM blocks are so simple to modify is ridiculous. To be quite honest this entire argument is subjective. You guys mention nitrous and forced induction like the LSX engines can't do the same. Stock for stock mod for mod, you will not keep up with a LSX engine with equal drivers.
< Message edited by MrRogers -- 6/29/2006 7:14:37 PM >
replacement for displacement order as i recall (please correct i might be wrong) #1: Nitrous #2 Turbo(s) #3 Supercharger
What happens when the bigger motor does the same thing? You're right back to where you started...well, you're further behind.
Birdie, the OHC motors weigh more than my motor, by a LOT. Ever wonder why they're only 281, or no, 331 cu in? They're the size of a big block motor. The 427 Cammer was an awesome motor, sad it would only fit inside a tank.
Why is it a better setup Birdie? GM motors, even the new small block 427, gets better gas mileage than any v8 Mustang EVER! It also makes more power than any stock Mustang ever.
When us "bad guys" talk about GM motors, we're talking about the new motors. GM hasn't made a big block in a number of years. So IDK why you're talking about them for?
This post makes it look like you really have no idea what you're talking about man. I've never really doubted you much before, but c'mon. Some of the things you said here make no sense. Just like the "bigger motor the more it weighs" line. A Terminators 281 cubic inch DOHC motor weighs a good bit more than my 346 cubic inch motor.
the origin of the modular v8 in the mustang has nothing to do with performance. it was meant to be produced as cheaply as possible. anything involving a modular motor and performance was an afterthought. different story on the ls1, at least from what I know. the ls1 was never intended to be used on fwd commuter cars like the modular v8. they are different animals, I don't see how you can compare these motors. strapping a blower on the modular motor is a patch, not something that was engineered from the start.
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replacement for displacement order as i recall (please correct i might be wrong) #1: Nitrous #2 Turbo(s) #3 Supercharger
What happens when the bigger motor does the same thing? You're right back to where you started...well, you're further behind.
Birdie, the OHC motors weigh more than my motor, by a LOT. Ever wonder why they're only 281, or no, 331 cu in? They're the size of a big block motor. The 427 Cammer was an awesome motor, sad it would only fit inside a tank.
Why is it a better setup Birdie? GM motors, even the new small block 427, gets better gas mileage than any v8 Mustang EVER! It also makes more power than any stock Mustang ever.
When us "bad guys" talk about GM motors, we're talking about the new motors. GM hasn't made a big block in a number of years. So IDK why you're talking about them for?
This post makes it look like you really have no idea what you're talking about man. I've never really doubted you much before, but c'mon. Some of the things you said here make no sense. Just like the "bigger motor the more it weighs" line. A Terminators 281 cubic inch DOHC motor weighs a good bit more than my 346 cubic inch motor.
Thats why i'm trying to tell him. He doesn't know what hes talking about. The GM blocks are pure brilliance simple design, easy to mod, they weigh less than the ford 4.6 blocks, good fuel milage and their all putting atleast 350hp to the crank. GM guys have no reason to whine.
Team MF MEmber #111 Posts: 929
Joined: 3/9/2006 Status: offline
I dont think he ment "big block" like a 454 or somehting. I think he was refering to "big block" as the bigger block.. 5.7>4.6 hence bigger block.. does that make any sense what so ever??
Any engine with boost automatically increases it's displacement. I'll use a standard Cobra for instance @ 8lbs.
P1=14.7 PSI atmospheric pressure V1= X our variable P2=22.7 PSI atmospheric pressure + the 8 lbs of Boost) V2=281 Cubic inches
Solving the equation for X
X=(P2*V2)/P1
X=434 Cubic Inches
This, in theory, shows us that it would take a 434 ci N/A motor to move as much air as a blown 281. Ever wonder why they're called a 2.0L, or 2.2L KB blower? It thusly adds that much more displacement. So how anyone can argue their engine is too small, while they have a power adder on it, is beyond me. Although, I get that a lot from the import guys.
The LSx motor in general is used in nearlly ALL of GM vehicles...even the trucks. Some get hotter heads/cam and different tunes for different uses.
I'm aware it and many variations are used in a lot of GM stuff. However, everything I ever read about the ls1's origins talks about the development of the ls1 and the c5 going hand in hand, which leads me to believe the ls1 was made for performance first and adapted to the other uses later.
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Pitchforks and torches are the answers to all of our nation's problems. KOBE4MVP
What other motor is the 4.6 DOHC Eaton powered motor in? Or the GT500 motor? Is that in other cars? I know the Lightning has a variance of the 5.4L, but hell, the Lightning ain't no work truck.
Let me tell exactly why camaros STOCK were faster than mustang GT's STOCK...........money. In 98 I was lookin at buying a new car, and just for kicks and giggles I comparison shopped the 98 z28 to a 98 cobra and 98 GT. The Z28 with the trim I wanted was around 25K before tax and all that crap. THe cobra was around 22, and the GT around 18. So as you can see, you get what you pay for. But to me it still works out that the mustang is overall BETTER, because I couldve bought a fully loaded GT s/c it, got some badass heads and cams, worked the exhaust, maybe even some gears, and the GT wouldve still cost LESS than the z28, and it wouldve blown the doors right off of that chevy. -P. PS: The 2008 GT will cost just as much as that 1998 Z28 did.
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N/A big block vs. a blown small block; which is better? - 
