A lot of people on this site (often times those crazy GM guys) try to make an issue of achieving power with a naturally aspirated motor over a smaller motor with a blower. They will often argue that the N/A setup is better. Statements like, "yeah, Ford needs to throw a blower on their setup to make the power they need to keep up with GM's" are usually directed toward the fact that the 'bigger' GM motors make more power than the smaller modular motors. Yep, the bigger the motor, the more power it will make. What makes this a better setup? News flash for the GM whiners. It's not a better setup, and here's why. First, the bigger the motor, the heavier it is. A big block setup weighs more than a small block setup, often times even adding a blower's weight and accessories into the mix. Second, the blown modular setup is cheaper and easier to get more added hp if wanted. (change the pulley and tune- good to go) With a n/a big block, increased horses are tougher to come by.
One point people may try to make herer is that if you want BIG power, you have more potential in the bigger motor. True, but what is considered BIG power? I can hear someone saying "you could never make 1100hp on Ford's 5.4". Let's be realistic here. A 1100 hp street car is hardly streetable. Point being, you could make all the hp you wanted (or needed) on a blown modular setup. Other's might say, "there are more potential problems with a blown motor than a n/a motor. This is really a fallacy too. The reliability of today's blowers is unbelievable, and it all comes down to tuning.
So, for all you GM guys that argue, "Ford needs a blower to keep up with GM", of course they do; they have less cubes. Bottom line; I can think of a number reasons why the blown setup is better than the n/a bigger motor.

Not to mention that the REALLY awesome big block stuff is VERY expensive. I was pricing out some USED 429 heads......$1700 .ouch. I can only imagine what some badass aftermarket heads would cost.
1 more thing I can think of about a small block being better....you can achieve higher rpm's. Ever hear a 302 spin 10k... I helped a guy build one.....sounds freakin SICK, damn fast too, got kinda scary when we took out the sway bars.
-P.

Sean hyland made 1500hp of a 4v twin turboed 4.6 engine. So yea it can be done. Like Birdieman4 said just having a bigger engine isn't always better.

replacement for displacement order as i recall (please correct i might be wrong)
#1: Nitrous
#2 Turbo(s)
#3 Supercharger

ORIGINAL: slow99GT

replacement for displacement order as i recall (please correct i might be wrong)
#1: Nitrous
#2 Turbo(s)
#3 Supercharger


I would agree with that. I just would personally perfer not to rely on the bottle. Sucks when you run out and then your the slow guy again.

ORIGINAL: slow99GT

replacement for displacement order as i recall (please correct i might be wrong)
#1: Nitrous
#2 Turbo(s)
#3 Supercharger


All of these things require one thing somewhere. DEEP POCKETS.

I have very shallow pockets which is why I have none of these options.

a 1000HP supra motor does not have the same power as a 1000HP big block.

no replacement for displacement.

1000hp is a 1000hp the difference is going to be in the power curve. A big block is going to be instant torque the second you hit the gas. The difference is also going to be in the car that it's in.

ORIGINAL: Birdieman4

A lot of people on this site (often times those crazy GM guys) try to make an issue of achieving power with a naturally aspirated motor over a smaller motor with a blower. They will often argue that the N/A setup is better. Statements like, "yeah, Ford needs to throw a blower on their setup to make the power they need to keep up with GM's" are usually directed toward the fact that the 'bigger' GM motors make more power than the smaller modular motors. Yep, the bigger the motor, the more power it will make. What makes this a better setup? News flash for the GM whiners. It's not a better setup, and here's why. First, the bigger the motor, the heavier it is. A big block setup weighs more than a small block setup, often times even adding a blower's weight and accessories into the mix. Second, the blown modular setup is cheaper and easier to get more added hp if wanted. (change the pulley and tune- good to go) With a n/a big block, increased horses are tougher to come by.
One point people may try to make herer is that if you want BIG power, you have more potential in the bigger motor. True, but what is considered BIG power? I can hear someone saying "you could never make 1100hp on Ford's 5.4". Let's be realistic here. A 1100 hp street car is hardly streetable. Point being, you could make all the hp you wanted (or needed) on a blown modular setup. Other's might say, "there are more potential problems with a blown motor than a n/a motor. This is really a fallacy too. The reliability of today's blowers is unbelievable, and it all comes down to tuning.
So, for all you GM guys that argue, "Ford needs a blower to keep up with GM", of course they do; they have less cubes. Bottom line; I can think of a number reasons why the blown setup is better than the n/a bigger motor.


Why did you have to say that? Have you ever had a GM block? Technically the engines found in F-bodys and Vettes are small blocks. They are not "big blocks" as you call them. I will guarantee that the 5.7L engine in my Z06 wieghs less than the 4.6L one in my GT. Dissplacement doesn't always mean more wieght. Why would the GM guys be whinners? They have been winning the street races for decades now. Heres a prediction for you a 1998 stock camaro will still be faster than a 2008 stock Mustang GT. That means that even after 10 years the GT still comes in 2nd place. So according to my assumptions the GM guys have something to be proud of for a long time. Ford will get the hint and go for larger dissplacement soner or later. The GM blocks are so simple to modify is ridiculous. To be quite honest this entire argument is subjective. You guys mention nitrous and forced induction like the LSX engines can't do the same. Stock for stock mod for mod, you will not keep up with a LSX engine with equal drivers.

ORIGINAL: slow99GT

replacement for displacement order as i recall (please correct i might be wrong)
#1: Nitrous
#2 Turbo(s)
#3 Supercharger


What happens when the bigger motor does the same thing? You're right back to where you started...well, you're further behind.

Birdie, the OHC motors weigh more than my motor, by a LOT. Ever wonder why they're only 281, or no, 331 cu in? They're the size of a big block motor. The 427 Cammer was an awesome motor, sad it would only fit inside a tank.

Why is it a better setup Birdie? GM motors, even the new small block 427, gets better gas mileage than any v8 Mustang EVER! It also makes more power than any stock Mustang ever.

When us "bad guys" talk about GM motors, we're talking about the new motors. GM hasn't made a big block in a number of years. So IDK why you're talking about them for?

This post makes it look like you really have no idea what you're talking about man. I've never really doubted you much before, but c'mon. Some of the things you said here make no sense. Just like the "bigger motor the more it weighs" line. A Terminators 281 cubic inch DOHC motor weighs a good bit more than my 346 cubic inch motor.

Have any of you ever heard of the ideal gas equation: P1*V1=P2*V2?

I'm guessing no, but if needed, I can explain it and it'll make you look at blown motors an entirely different way.

the origin of the modular v8 in the mustang has nothing to do with performance. it was meant to be produced as cheaply as possible. anything involving a modular motor and performance was an afterthought. different story on the ls1, at least from what I know. the ls1 was never intended to be used on fwd commuter cars like the modular v8. they are different animals, I don't see how you can compare these motors. strapping a blower on the modular motor is a patch, not something that was engineered from the start.

ORIGINAL: 98LS1


ORIGINAL: slow99GT

replacement for displacement order as i recall (please correct i might be wrong)
#1: Nitrous
#2 Turbo(s)
#3 Supercharger


What happens when the bigger motor does the same thing? You're right back to where you started...well, you're further behind.

Birdie, the OHC motors weigh more than my motor, by a LOT. Ever wonder why they're only 281, or no, 331 cu in? They're the size of a big block motor. The 427 Cammer was an awesome motor, sad it would only fit inside a tank.

Why is it a better setup Birdie? GM motors, even the new small block 427, gets better gas mileage than any v8 Mustang EVER! It also makes more power than any stock Mustang ever.

When us "bad guys" talk about GM motors, we're talking about the new motors. GM hasn't made a big block in a number of years. So IDK why you're talking about them for?

This post makes it look like you really have no idea what you're talking about man. I've never really doubted you much before, but c'mon. Some of the things you said here make no sense. Just like the "bigger motor the more it weighs" line. A Terminators 281 cubic inch DOHC motor weighs a good bit more than my 346 cubic inch motor.


Thats why i'm trying to tell him. He doesn't know what hes talking about. The GM blocks are pure brilliance simple design, easy to mod, they weigh less than the ford 4.6 blocks, good fuel milage and their all putting atleast 350hp to the crank. GM guys have no reason to whine.

The LSx motor in general is used in nearlly ALL of GM vehicles...even the trucks. Some get hotter heads/cam and different tunes for different uses.

ORIGINAL: 98LS1

Have any of you ever heard of the ideal gas equation: P1*V1=P2*V2?

I'm guessing no, but if needed, I can explain it and it'll make you look at blown motors an entirely different way.


yes, what are you getting at?

I dont think he ment "big block" like a 454 or somehting. I think he was refering to "big block" as the bigger block.. 5.7>4.6 hence bigger block.. does that make any sense what so ever?? [&:]

Any engine with boost automatically increases it's displacement. I'll use a standard Cobra for instance @ 8lbs.

P1=14.7 PSI atmospheric pressure
V1= X our variable
P2=22.7 PSI atmospheric pressure + the 8 lbs of Boost)
V2=281 Cubic inches

Solving the equation for X

X=(P2*V2)/P1

X=434 Cubic Inches

This, in theory, shows us that it would take a 434 ci N/A motor to move as much air as a blown 281. Ever wonder why they're called a 2.0L, or 2.2L KB blower? It thusly adds that much more displacement. So how anyone can argue their engine is too small, while they have a power adder on it, is beyond me. Although, I get that a lot from the import guys.

ORIGINAL: 98LS1

The LSx motor in general is used in nearlly ALL of GM vehicles...even the trucks. Some get hotter heads/cam and different tunes for different uses.


I'm aware it and many variations are used in a lot of GM stuff. However, everything I ever read about the ls1's origins talks about the development of the ls1 and the c5 going hand in hand, which leads me to believe the ls1 was made for performance first and adapted to the other uses later.

What other motor is the 4.6 DOHC Eaton powered motor in? Or the GT500 motor? Is that in other cars? I know the Lightning has a variance of the 5.4L, but hell, the Lightning ain't no work truck.

Mr. Rodgers,

Let me tell exactly why camaros STOCK were faster than mustang GT's STOCK...........money. In 98 I was lookin at buying a new car, and just for kicks and giggles I comparison shopped the 98 z28 to a 98 cobra and 98 GT. The Z28 with the trim I wanted was around 25K before tax and all that crap. THe cobra was around 22, and the GT around 18. So as you can see, you get what you pay for. But to me it still works out that the mustang is overall BETTER, because I couldve bought a fully loaded GT s/c it, got some badass heads and cams, worked the exhaust, maybe even some gears, and the GT wouldve still cost LESS than the z28, and it wouldve blown the doors right off of that chevy.
-P.
PS: The 2008 GT will cost just as much as that 1998 Z28 did.

ORIGINAL: slow99GT

I dont think he ment "big block" like a 454 or somehting. I think he was refering to "big block" as the bigger block.. 5.7>4.6 hence bigger block.. does that make any sense what so ever?? [&:]


Look at it this way....The LS1 engine weighs less develops more power and has better gas milage than any stock GT motor even till this very day.

Lets look at the 7.0L 500hp LS7 engine found in the Z06 and the 5.4L 500hp engine found in the Shelby. Which one would you wanna have? The LS7 is lighter and has better fuel econmy. Even though you could change a pulley on the shelby the LS7 has more potential because it's pushing the same power N/A.

ORIGINAL: P Zero

Mr. Rodgers,

Let me tell exactly why camaros STOCK were faster than mustang GT's STOCK...........money. In 98 I was lookin at buying a new car, and just for kicks and giggles I comparison shopped the 98 z28 to a 98 cobra and 98 GT. The Z28 with the trim I wanted was around 25K before tax and all that crap. THe cobra was around 22, and the GT around 18. So as you can see, you get what you pay for. But to me it still works out that the mustang is overall BETTER, because I couldve bought a fully loaded GT s/c it, got some badass heads and cams, worked the exhaust, maybe even some gears, and the GT wouldve still cost LESS than the z28, and it wouldve blown the doors right off of that chevy.
-P.
PS: The 2008 GT will cost just as much as that 1998 Z28 did.


I would have bought the Z28. No need for a blower. A heads and cam package would smoke your supercharged GT.

P.S If it will cost as much why is it still slower?

ORIGINAL: P Zero

Mr. Rodgers,

Let me tell exactly why camaros STOCK were faster than mustang GT's STOCK...........money. In 98 I was lookin at buying a new car, and just for kicks and giggles I comparison shopped the 98 z28 to a 98 cobra and 98 GT. The Z28 with the trim I wanted was around 25K before tax and all that crap. THe cobra was around 22, and the GT around 18. So as you can see, you get what you pay for. But to me it still works out that the mustang is overall BETTER, because I couldve bought a fully loaded GT s/c it, got some badass heads and cams, worked the exhaust, maybe even some gears, and the GT wouldve still cost LESS than the z28, and it wouldve blown the doors right off of that chevy.
-P.
PS: The 2008 GT will cost just as much as that 1998 Z28 did.


You were getting a VERY easy to mod and adaptible motor with the $25k on a new Z, which is expensive to me. I think in '02 they were going for $25k and less...brand new.

The link feature is your friend... (http://www54.forddirect.fordvehicles.com/Dispatch.jsp?__action=&__action2=&.CurrentState=SearchServiceZipCode&DispatchBindingSet=zipcode&zipCode=28625&processZipCode=ToVLS&statetoken=)

Just browse that link...the cheapest GT they have is over $28k....one is $35k!

Don't forget, the '03 Cobra's are still comparible in performance, yet cost $10k more than an '02 Z28.

i was just thinking how nice its been to not have the lsx vs. mod motor shizz going on. i guess that is what i get for thinking.

ORIGINAL: tripsevn7

i was just thinking how nice its been to not have the lsx vs. mod motor shizz going on. i guess that is what i get for thinking.


I look at it as educational. Nothing harse or mean being said yet.

The great "drag racer" started it. Which is hard to believe. He even thinks a Mod motor w/FI weighs less than a pushrod v8. Go figure. I guess he doesn't actually have to work on his car, he just drives it.

ORIGINAL: 98LS1

The great "drag racer" started it. Which is hard to believe. He even thinks a Mod motor w/FI weighs less than a pushrod v8. Go figure. I guess he doesn't actually have to work on his car, he just drives it.


Even without the F/I the pushrod weigh less..

the 4v cobra motor is a beast in weight next to the lsx.



















your still slow 98















:D:D:D:D:D:D

ORIGINAL: tripsevn7

your still slow 98

This I know....[:-]

[8D]

ORIGINAL: 98LS1

What other motor is the 4.6 DOHC Eaton powered motor in? Or the GT500 motor? Is that in other cars? I know the Lightning has a variance of the 5.4L, but hell, the Lightning ain't no work truck.


anything 4.6 or 5.4 in ford's lineup came from a mod motor that was intended for a fwd transportation car. ANYTHING and EVERYTHING. it's where the mod motors origins are. anything with a 4.6 or 5.4 was an afterthought, and it was not designed from the ground up for performance like an ls1 motor was. 2v, 3v, 4v, blower or not, they are all an afterthought or a modification of the original. mod motors are meant to have swappable parts and to be cheap as hell to build in a factory, not to have great performance.

I've read more than one article about the origins and development of the LSx, they always talk about developing the ls1 and c5 together, and they always give the engineering goals they had: lighter motor, certain HP/c.i. goals, size goals, etc.

totally different philosophy between the two motors when they were engineered.

So the mod motor was built as a cheap motor for Ford to slap in every vehicle they could, and they chose the Mustang/Cobra lineup as well as others. The LS motor was built for performance, but happened to fit into every single vehicle GM offers...gets better gas mileage too....where did they go wrong? Same results, different solutions.

ORIGINAL: 98LS1

Have any of you ever heard of the ideal gas equation: P1*V1=P2*V2?

I'm guessing no, but if needed, I can explain it and it'll make you look at blown motors an entirely different way.


14psi * 1cubic foot of volume = 1psi * 14cubic feet of volume. however, when it comes to advanced thermodynamics and fluid flow of a gas-burning engine, other factors like burn efficiency, reynolds number, density, viscosity, etc come into play.

in theory, if a motor makes 200hp NA, boosting it one bar (14.7psi, which is the air pressure at sea level) would yield a doubling of hp to 400. we all know this does not happen in real life per se.

ORIGINAL: 98LS1


ORIGINAL: P Zero

Mr. Rodgers,

Let me tell exactly why camaros STOCK were faster than mustang GT's STOCK...........money. In 98 I was lookin at buying a new car, and just for kicks and giggles I comparison shopped the 98 z28 to a 98 cobra and 98 GT. The Z28 with the trim I wanted was around 25K before tax and all that crap. THe cobra was around 22, and the GT around 18. So as you can see, you get what you pay for. But to me it still works out that the mustang is overall BETTER, because I couldve bought a fully loaded GT s/c it, got some badass heads and cams, worked the exhaust, maybe even some gears, and the GT wouldve still cost LESS than the z28, and it wouldve blown the doors right off of that chevy.
-P.
PS: The 2008 GT will cost just as much as that 1998 Z28 did.


You were getting a VERY easy to mod and adaptible motor with the $25k on a new Z, which is expensive to me. I think in '02 they were going for $25k and less...brand new.



Just browse that link...the cheapest GT they have is over $28k....one is $35k!

Don't forget, the '03 Cobra's are still comparible in performance, yet cost $10k more than an '02 Z28.



and with that 10k u saved u could kill a cobra

ORIGINAL: Sleeper05


14psi * 1cubic foot of volume = 1psi * 14cubic feet of volume. however, when it comes to advanced thermodynamics and fluid flow of a gas-burning engine, other factors like burn efficiency, reynolds number, density, viscosity, etc come into play.

in theory, if a motor makes 200hp NA, boosting it one bar (14.7psi, which is the air pressure at sea level) would yield a doubling of hp to 400. we all know this does not happen in real life per se.


The only thing basically lacking in that theory is intake temp....which is typically cool considering most guys I see run ice on the intake to get better numbers. I don't know why they're so worried about it, but they do.

ORIGINAL: 98LS1


ORIGINAL: Sleeper05


14psi * 1cubic foot of volume = 1psi * 14cubic feet of volume. however, when it comes to advanced thermodynamics and fluid flow of a gas-burning engine, other factors like burn efficiency, reynolds number, density, viscosity, etc come into play.

in theory, if a motor makes 200hp NA, boosting it one bar (14.7psi, which is the air pressure at sea level) would yield a doubling of hp to 400. we all know this does not happen in real life per se.


The only thing basically lacking in that theory is intake temp....which is typically cool considering most guys I see run ice on the intake to get better numbers. I don't know why they're so worried about it, but they do.




ice on the intake has always baffled me as well. imagine looking down a hollow 4in tube. the volume in there is substantial, but only the very edges of the tube even touch that air. only like 5% of the air even touches the walls, and when its moving really fast, how much do you think its gonna cool down? much less the average temp of the total volume of air?

when you are measuring a 1/4 of a mile run in thousandths of a second, any little thing can make a difference.

also the ideal gas law doesn't apply here. if you were comparing two balloons, ok, but a motor is much more complicated and the airflow is not perfectly matched to the displacement of the motor. and the ideal gas law only approximates a system which has no heat or work going in or out at high temperature and low pressure.

ORIGINAL: redass02gt

when you are measuring a 1/4 of a mile run in thousandths of a second, any little thing can make a difference.

true, but while icing the intake can make .001sec diff, a perfect launch can make .300 diff over even a good launch, and powershifting can make .250 diff over regular shifting. i always found it funny when people would wry bout the little things before the big things...like taking out the spare and passenger seat and interior carpet, but have a full tank of gas...or have traction problems but still buy every carbon fiber part on the market, but not good tires.

ORIGINAL: tripsevn7

i was just thinking how nice its been to not have the lsx vs. mod motor shizz going on. i guess that is what i get for thinking.

I guess Birdie was gettin bored.....and decided to bang on the hornets' nest a few times for fun:eek:

Don't know what this whole post was supposed to accomplish..........but in the end, it won't accomplish much. LSX guys will stay LSX guys and mod Ford guys will stay mod Ford guys. All performance minded mustang guys (at least.....most of them I hope) know what their up against when it comes to GM's LS series of engines. So unless one is a total noob to this discussion.....they won't learn much here.[&:]

ORIGINAL: Sleeper05


ORIGINAL: redass02gt

when you are measuring a 1/4 of a mile run in thousandths of a second, any little thing can make a difference.

true, but while icing the intake can make .001sec diff, a perfect launch can make .300 diff over even a good launch, and powershifting can make .250 diff over regular shifting. i always found it funny when people would wry bout the little things before the big things...like taking out the spare and passenger seat and interior carpet, but have a full tank of gas...or have traction problems but still buy every carbon fiber part on the market, but not good tires.


hey, I never claimed to know why people are stupid, just why they ice the intake... [8D]

Why did you have to say that? Have you ever had a GM block? Technically the engines found in F-bodys and Vettes are small blocks. They are not "big blocks" as you call them. I will guarantee that the 5.7L engine in my Z06 wieghs less than the 4.6L one in my GT. Dissplacement doesn't always mean more wieght. Why would the GM guys be whinners? They have been winning the street races for decades now. Heres a prediction for you a 1998 stock camaro will still be faster than a 2008 stock Mustang GT. That means that even after 10 years the GT still comes in 2nd place. So according to my assumptions the GM guys have something to be proud of for a long time. Ford will get the hint and go for larger dissplacement soner or later. The GM blocks are so simple to modify is ridiculous. To be quite honest this entire argument is subjective. You guys mention nitrous and forced induction like the LSX engines can't do the same. Stock for stock mod for mod, you will not keep up with a LSX engine with equal drivers.
A few things here. First, I said it because there are several people here who seem to think that Ford is somehow behind in technology by running a 5.4 blown motor in the GT500 vs, a larger, built n/a powerplant. That was one of my points. Comments like "Ford needs a blower to keep up with chevy" is rediculous. Ford could have developed a n/a big block, similarly used in the Z06, but they chose to go the blower route.
I will guarantee that the 5.7L engine in my Z06 wieghs less than the 4.6L one in my GT.
I mean keeping all things equal. ie., iron block to iron block, aluminum to aluminum.
Heres a prediction for you a 1998 stock camaro will still be faster than a 2008 stock Mustang GT.
As in it will have more hp? (As it should if it has more cubes)
Why would the GM guys be whinners? They have been winning the street races for decades now. Heres a prediction for you a 1998 stock camaro will still be faster than a 2008 stock Mustang GT. That means that even after 10 years the GT still comes in 2nd place.
With more cubes, sure, and that's what im talking about. GM owners seem to have a short memory when it comes to cubic inches.
The GM blocks are so simple to modify is ridiculous.
Not as easy as changing a blower pulley :D

ORIGINAL: 98LS1

So the mod motor was built as a cheap motor for Ford to slap in every vehicle they could, and they chose the Mustang/Cobra lineup as well as others. The LS motor was built for performance, but happened to fit into every single vehicle GM offers...gets better gas mileage too....where did they go wrong? Same results, different solutions.


not the same results.

they still make mod motor mustangs.

ORIGINAL: redass02gt

ORIGINAL: 98LS1

So the mod motor was built as a cheap motor for Ford to slap in every vehicle they could, and they chose the Mustang/Cobra lineup as well as others. The LS motor was built for performance, but happened to fit into every single vehicle GM offers...gets better gas mileage too....where did they go wrong? Same results, different solutions.


not the same results.

they still make mod motor mustangs.


Right in the kisser!

People don't like performance, what can ya say?

ORIGINAL: MrRogers


ORIGINAL: P Zero

Mr. Rodgers,

Let me tell exactly why camaros STOCK were faster than mustang GT's STOCK...........money. In 98 I was lookin at buying a new car, and just for kicks and giggles I comparison shopped the 98 z28 to a 98 cobra and 98 GT. The Z28 with the trim I wanted was around 25K before tax and all that crap. THe cobra was around 22, and the GT around 18. So as you can see, you get what you pay for. But to me it still works out that the mustang is overall BETTER, because I couldve bought a fully loaded GT s/c it, got some badass heads and cams, worked the exhaust, maybe even some gears, and the GT wouldve still cost LESS than the z28, and it wouldve blown the doors right off of that chevy.
-P.
PS: The 2008 GT will cost just as much as that 1998 Z28 did.


I would have bought the Z28. No need for a blower. A heads and cam package would smoke your supercharged GT.

P.S If it will cost as much why is it still slower?

I see you missed my whole point. If I had bought a 98 GT and put all of those performance parts on there the GT wouldve cost less than JUST THE Z. And just H/C/I on a Z would no way in hell smoke a GT w/ a s/c and h/c/i. I dont know what youre smokin but you need to share damnit! :D. Hell my N/A 85 smokes 98 z's no problem. But then again I smoke Cobras no problem either.
-P.

ORIGINAL: 98LS1


ORIGINAL: redass02gt

ORIGINAL: 98LS1

So the mod motor was built as a cheap motor for Ford to slap in every vehicle they could, and they chose the Mustang/Cobra lineup as well as others. The LS motor was built for performance, but happened to fit into every single vehicle GM offers...gets better gas mileage too....where did they go wrong? Same results, different solutions.


not the same results.

they still make mod motor mustangs.


Right in the kisser!

People don't like performance, what can ya say?


yeah, pretty much, performance never sells cars, so I dunno why GM decided to build a motor with performance as the main goal.

ford's strategy isn't exactly tearing up the new car market outside of the 05/06 stangs either.

I see what you're getting at, but a heads/cams/intake/blown 2V GT would probably have a hard time with a heads/cam LS1.....You're looking at 450rwhp+ with one HELL of a power curve.

And oh yea, all my buddies have Foxbodies. And by just looking at your mods, you would be a pretty decent run for an exhaust/lid car. What do you run in the 1/8? 8.40's? 8.20's?

ORIGINAL: redass02gt

yeah, pretty much, performance never sells cars, so I dunno why GM decided to build a motor with performance as the main goal.

ford's strategy isn't exactly tearing up the new car market outside of the 05/06 stangs either.


Apparently performance doesn't sell cars, just look at how well the SN-95 Stangs sold....or hell, even how well the new ones sell. GM built a high performance motor with economy car specs. How often can you make 450hp and still get 25+mpg? The cars also handle great....but let's not get into why they killed the Crapmaro/Fireturds. At least the Camaro is coming back...but not the way I wanted. Forged LSx/turbo/$35k would have been nice.

ORIGINAL: 98LS1

ORIGINAL: P Zero

Mr. Rodgers,

Let me tell exactly why camaros STOCK were faster than mustang GT's STOCK...........money. In 98 I was lookin at buying a new car, and just for kicks and giggles I comparison shopped the 98 z28 to a 98 cobra and 98 GT. The Z28 with the trim I wanted was around 25K before tax and all that crap. THe cobra was around 22, and the GT around 18. So as you can see, you get what you pay for. But to me it still works out that the mustang is overall BETTER, because I couldve bought a fully loaded GT s/c it, got some badass heads and cams, worked the exhaust, maybe even some gears, and the GT wouldve still cost LESS than the z28, and it wouldve blown the doors right off of that chevy.
-P.
PS: The 2008 GT will cost just as much as that 1998 Z28 did.


You were getting a VERY easy to mod and adaptible motor with the $25k on a new Z, which is expensive to me. I think in '02 they were going for $25k and less...brand new.

The link feature is your friend... (http://www54.forddirect.fordvehicles.com/Dispatch.jsp?__action=&__action2=&.CurrentState=SearchServiceZipCode&DispatchBindingSet=zipcode&zipCode=28625&processZipCode=ToVLS&statetoken=)

Just browse that link...the cheapest GT they have is over $28k....one is $35k!

Don't forget, the '03 Cobra's are still comparible in performance, yet cost $10k more than an '02 Z28.


I dont know what planet youre on, the closest competitor in '03 sure as hell wasnt the Z28, it was the vette. 02Z28 = 310hp
03 cobra= 390 hp..........so once again what planet are you on.
heres a motor trend link: http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/coupe/112_0305_sport_convertibles_comparison/
And the prices I was comparing was for 1998! not 06.
And youre right the chevy 350 IS very easy to mod, but the car REALLY sux to work on.
And that 25k figure you came up with musta been for a no option car.
-P.

ORIGINAL: P Zero
I dont know what planet youre on, the closest competitor in '03 sure as hell wasnt the Z28, it was the vette. 02Z28 = 310hp
03 cobra= 390 hp..........so once again what planet are you on.
heres a motor trend link: http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/coupe/112_0305_sport_convertibles_comparison/
And the prices I was comparing was for 1998! not 06.
And youre right the chevy 350 IS very easy to mod, but the car REALLY sux to work on.
And that 25k figure you came up with musta been for a no option car.
-P.


Alright, honestly I'm gonna be nice, you seem like an alright guy, you're just confused. An '02 Z28 would put down 300-315rwhp...not crank, but rwhp. That's around 360hp at the crank. Evan Smith drove a '98 SS, the slowest year made of the LS1's, to a 12.8x in less than ideal weather, this was in MM&FF nonetheless. That same "310hp" car put down 313rwhp or so on the dyno. Is a Cobra faster than a stock LS1, yes. But going by your theory, just $100 thrown at the LS1 for a lid puts it right with the Cobra.

It's not a 350 for one, and how do you know it sucks to work on? Ever worked on an LS1?

Nice thread! I tried to read all of the comments but way to many. Basically this comes to is a LSx vs. 281 money wise and performance argument. I think! Well I own a 5.0 currenlty working on. I owned a 2000 WS6 before this car until I destoyed. All I have to say is that the LS1 is the best bang for your bucks.

ORIGINAL: 98LS1

ORIGINAL: P Zero
I dont know what planet youre on, the closest competitor in '03 sure as hell wasnt the Z28, it was the vette. 02Z28 = 310hp
03 cobra= 390 hp..........so once again what planet are you on.
heres a motor trend link: http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/coupe/112_0305_sport_convertibles_comparison/
And the prices I was comparing was for 1998! not 06.
And youre right the chevy 350 IS very easy to mod, but the car REALLY sux to work on.
And that 25k figure you came up with musta been for a no option car.
-P.


Alright, honestly I'm gonna be nice, you seem like an alright guy, you're just confused. An '02 Z28 would put down 300-315rwhp...not crank, but rwhp. That's around 360hp at the crank. Evan Smith drove a '98 SS, the slowest year made of the LS1's, to a 12.8x in less than ideal weather, this was in MM&FF nonetheless. That same "310hp" car put down 313rwhp or so on the dyno. Is a Cobra faster than a stock LS1, yes. But going by your theory, just $100 thrown at the LS1 for a lid puts it right with the Cobra.

It's not a 350 for one, and how do you know it sucks to work on? Ever worked on an LS1?




[sm=exactly.gif] Add a few bolt on an LS1. Those thing come alive. I need to get me another. Insureance is to high! Damn it!

ORIGINAL: 98LS1

I see what you're getting at, but a heads/cams/intake/blown 2V GT would probably have a hard time with a heads/cam LS1.....You're looking at 450rwhp+ with one HELL of a power curve.

And oh yea, all my buddies have Foxbodies. And by just looking at your mods, you would be a pretty decent run for an exhaust/lid car. What do you run in the 1/8? 8.40's? 8.20's?


Actually 2V heads flow better than 4v heads. Do some research. 450rwhp is a lot of power, but that would be some crazy heads and a crazy ass cam to go with it to make a 350 do that, cuz you gotta figure it would be 500+ at the crank.

And about my mods....youre assuming that my performance parts are box stock...... I dont drag my car, its not setup for it, its setup for road racing, you know, corners? Thats why it sits soo low. And the 3" is just a guestimation, its probably lower. I like to mess with porsches, m3's and the like, and lose people in the corners...I think it takes more skill.
As for draggin, Im building a ranger for that, it already has a 302 w/ an AOD in it, and some slicks, I just gotta get a couple of things so theyll let me run it.
-P.

ORIGINAL: P Zero


ORIGINAL: 98LS1

I see what you're getting at, but a heads/cams/intake/blown 2V GT would probably have a hard time with a heads/cam LS1.....You're looking at 450rwhp+ with one HELL of a power curve.

And oh yea, all my buddies have Foxbodies. And by just looking at your mods, you would be a pretty decent run for an exhaust/lid car. What do you run in the 1/8? 8.40's? 8.20's?


Actually 2V heads flow better than 4v heads. Do some research. 450rwhp is a lot of power, but that would be some crazy heads and a crazy ass cam to go with it to make a 350 do that, cuz you gotta figure it would be 500+ at the crank.


I had no idea that the 4.6 SOHC 2v heads flow better than the 4.6 DOHC 4v heads? New to me.

It's NOT a 350...my car makes almost 400rwhp on STOCK heads, factory stock, never removed/touched. This is on a 150 DRY nitrous tune on the STOCK fuel system. I could easily make 415rwhp with a motor tune with just a cam. With a set of heads the car would easily breach the 450rwhp mark. You need to do some research, then come and spout off to others.

So youre saying an LS1 motor ISNT 350 CID??? Wow news to me...
And when did I ever say that on that GT I would be using STOCK heads???? Not once. Aftermarket 2v heads will outflow ANY 4.6 4v head, period.
And If im adding correctly.....your car would only make 250 rwhp with out the bottle. Correct? How would that be MORE powerful than a 4.6 with aftermarket heads,cams, intake, and s/c? Even with your nitrous youd be lookin at taillights gettin smaller before your very eyes.
And it seems pretty obvious you need nitrous to make your power. I wonder what that gt would do with a 150 shot? Make 650hp?
-P.

is anyone else feeling dumber now for having read what has gone on so far?

wtf x100

ORIGINAL: P Zero

So youre saying an LS1 motor ISNT 350 CID??? Wow news to me...
And when did I ever say that on that GT I would be using STOCK heads???? Not once. Aftermarket 2v heads will outflow ANY 4.6 4v head, period.
And If im adding correctly.....your car would only make 250 rwhp with out the bottle. Correct? How would that be MORE powerful than a 4.6 with aftermarket heads,cams, intake, and s/c? Even with your nitrous youd be lookin at taillights gettin smaller before your very eyes.
And it seems pretty obvious you need nitrous to make your power. I wonder what that gt would do with a 150 shot? Make 650hp?
-P.



Honestly...are you that dumb? I made 393rwhp on MOTOR alone. I made 500.3rwhp on the nitrous. WTF are you talking about? And yes, it is 346ci!

pzero, cool it. the ls1 is 346 i believe. also, what kind of suspension do you have giong? it would take a LOT to handle better than a porsche or M-car, considering:
the convertible version of my car has a stiffer chassis stock than your car with a full 10pt roll cage.
my car is significantly wider, and has better geometry.
i have mcphereson strut arrangement.
after 1500$ (parts, i did the labor) in completely revamped suspension, including a 2.75in drop, plus new/wider/lower-pro/stickier tires, i can only just barely outhandle an M on the twisties.

ORIGINAL: Sleeper05

pzero, cool it. the ls1 is 346 i believe. also, what kind of suspension do you have giong? it would take a LOT to handle better than a porsche or M-car, considering:
the convertible version of my car has a stiffer chassis stock than your car with a full 10pt roll cage.
my car is significantly wider, and has better geometry.
i have mcphereson strut arrangement.
after 1500$ (parts, i did the labor) in completely revamped suspension, including a 2.75in drop, plus new/wider/lower-pro/stickier tires, i can only just barely outhandle an M on the twisties.


Yeah, an LS1 is a 346.

ORIGINAL: 98LS1


ORIGINAL: P Zero

So youre saying an LS1 motor ISNT 350 CID??? Wow news to me...
And when did I ever say that on that GT I would be using STOCK heads???? Not once. Aftermarket 2v heads will outflow ANY 4.6 4v head, period.
And If im adding correctly.....your car would only make 250 rwhp with out the bottle. Correct? How would that be MORE powerful than a 4.6 with aftermarket heads,cams, intake, and s/c? Even with your nitrous youd be lookin at taillights gettin smaller before your very eyes.
And it seems pretty obvious you need nitrous to make your power. I wonder what that gt would do with a 150 shot? Make 650hp?
-P.



Honestly...are you that dumb? I made 393rwhp on MOTOR alone. I made 500.3rwhp on the nitrous. WTF are you talking about? And yes, it is 346ci!



Dude youre so full of sh!t your eyes must be brown, sh!t brown. So a STOCK LS1 makes almost 400 hp???Bullsh!t. And that 346.89 (I believe) is based on the chevy 350 block.
heres your exact words -It's NOT a 350...my car makes almost 400rwhp on STOCK heads, factory stock, never removed/touched. This is on a 150 DRY nitrous tune on the STOCK fuel system.
Im actually amazed that a BONE STOCK LS1 makes 400rwhp.... Wow so all you would have to do to a lets say 98 Z28 is get a nitrous tune and it will make 400RWHP? Sure......LOL!
-P.

ORIGINAL: P Zero


ORIGINAL: 98LS1


ORIGINAL: P Zero

So youre saying an LS1 motor ISNT 350 CID??? Wow news to me...
And when did I ever say that on that GT I would be using STOCK heads???? Not once. Aftermarket 2v heads will outflow ANY 4.6 4v head, period.
And If im adding correctly.....your car would only make 250 rwhp with out the bottle. Correct? How would that be MORE powerful than a 4.6 with aftermarket heads,cams, intake, and s/c? Even with your nitrous youd be lookin at taillights gettin smaller before your very eyes.
And it seems pretty obvious you need nitrous to make your power. I wonder what that gt would do with a 150 shot? Make 650hp?
-P.



Honestly...are you that dumb? I made 393rwhp on MOTOR alone. I made 500.3rwhp on the nitrous. WTF are you talking about? And yes, it is 346ci!



Dude youre so full of sh!t your eyes must be brown, sh!t brown. So a STOCK LS1 makes almost 400 hp???Bullsh!t. And that 346.89 (I believe) is based on the chevy 350 block.
heres your exact words -It's NOT a 350...my car makes almost 400rwhp on STOCK heads, factory stock, never removed/touched. This is on a 150 DRY nitrous tune on the STOCK fuel system.
Im actually amazed that a BONE STOCK LS1 makes 400rwhp.... Wow so all you would have to do to a lets say 98 Z28 is get a nitrous tune and it will make 400RWHP? Sure......LOL!
-P.


let me translate for 98ls1:
"its not a 350" = its a 346
"400rwhp on stock heads, factory stock, blah blah" = ON MOTOR, he makes 393rwhp
"this is on a 150 dry nitrous tune" = theres no bloody fu(king nitrous, its just TUNED for a shot (which happens to make 500rwhp WITH the laughing gas)
"stock fuel system" = stock fuel system

sry, but i just had to get 98's back on this one

Stock LS1 makes 305 to 315. Depending on the model. WS6 makes 315. Not sure what the Z makes but i think it's 305 to 310.

I don't think he can understand what we're typing....maybe we should try another language? Does anyone here speak tard?

ORIGINAL: Sleeper05

it would take a LOT to handle better than a porsche or M-car, considering:
the convertible version of my car has a stiffer chassis stock than your car with a full 10pt roll cage.
my car is significantly wider, and has better geometry.
i have mcphereson strut arrangement.
after 1500$ (parts, i did the labor) in completely revamped suspension, including a 2.75in drop, plus new/wider/lower-pro/stickier tires, i can only just barely outhandle an M on the twisties.


FMS lower arms with the offset bushings, FMS lowering springs (modified), reversed rims (widens my wheelbase by almost 4"), and heres the kicker 225/40/16 tires. Let me put it to you this way, my Hpipe site about 1" off the ground, if you stand a pack of smokes up, thats where the bottom of my front clip starts. The top of my front bumper is literally 4" below my knee. PLus, I have the 1 7/8" sway bar in the front and a heavy ass sound system in the back for a little more even weight distribution. That in a nutshell will make a fox handle like mad. Gotta brace em up though, I cracked my dash before I realized that I needed to brace it up some more :D.
-P.

ORIGINAL: P Zero
Gotta brace em up though, I cracked my dash before I realized that I needed to brace it up some more :D.
-P.


Sun + 17 year old car.....yea.

ORIGINAL: Sleeper05


ORIGINAL: P Zero


ORIGINAL: 98LS1


ORIGINAL: P Zero

So youre saying an LS1 motor ISNT 350 CID??? Wow news to me...
And when did I ever say that on that GT I would be using STOCK heads???? Not once. Aftermarket 2v heads will outflow ANY 4.6 4v head, period.
And If im adding correctly.....your car would only make 250 rwhp with out the bottle. Correct? How would that be MORE powerful than a 4.6 with aftermarket heads,cams, intake, and s/c? Even with your nitrous youd be lookin at taillights gettin smaller before your very eyes.
And it seems pretty obvious you need nitrous to make your power. I wonder what that gt would do with a 150 shot? Make 650hp?
-P.



Honestly...are you that dumb? I made 393rwhp on MOTOR alone. I made 500.3rwhp on the nitrous. WTF are you talking about? And yes, it is 346ci!



Dude youre so full of sh!t your eyes must be brown, sh!t brown. So a STOCK LS1 makes almost 400 hp???Bullsh!t. And that 346.89 (I believe) is based on the chevy 350 block.
heres your exact words -It's NOT a 350...my car makes almost 400rwhp on STOCK heads, factory stock, never removed/touched. This is on a 150 DRY nitrous tune on the STOCK fuel system.
Im actually amazed that a BONE STOCK LS1 makes 400rwhp.... Wow so all you would have to do to a lets say 98 Z28 is get a nitrous tune and it will make 400RWHP? Sure......LOL!
-P.


let me translate for 98ls1:
"its not a 350" = its a 346
"400rwhp on stock heads, factory stock, blah blah" = ON MOTOR, he makes 393rwhp
"this is on a 150 dry nitrous tune" = theres no bloody fu(king nitrous, its just TUNED for a shot (which happens to make 500rwhp WITH the laughing gas)
"stock fuel system" = stock fuel system

sry, but i just had to get 98's back on this one



If you had read more thouroghly I wrote nitrous tune.... not on the bottle. I did in an earlier one, but then I read more thouroghly and realized he said tune. This is what I gather from what he's saying, on a bone stock motor with a NOS tune he makes damn near 400rwhp. I dont buy it. Ive raced plenty of Z's, one of my good friends has one that has way more stuff done to his and hes at like 450. I think hes makin up them numbers.
-P.

ORIGINAL: P Zero


ORIGINAL: Sleeper05

it would take a LOT to handle better than a porsche or M-car, considering:
the convertible version of my car has a stiffer chassis stock than your car with a full 10pt roll cage.
my car is significantly wider, and has better geometry.
i have mcphereson strut arrangement.
after 1500$ (parts, i did the labor) in completely revamped suspension, including a 2.75in drop, plus new/wider/lower-pro/stickier tires, i can only just barely outhandle an M on the twisties.


FMS lower arms with the offset bushings, FMS lowering springs (modified), reversed rims (widens my wheelbase by almost 4"), and heres the kicker 225/40/16 tires. Let me put it to you this way, my Hpipe site about 1" off the ground, if you stand a pack of smokes up, thats where the bottom of my front clip starts. The top of my front bumper is literally 4" below my knee. PLus, I have the 1 7/8" sway bar in the front and a heavy ass sound system in the back for a little more even weight distribution. That in a nutshell will make a fox handle like mad. Gotta brace em up though, I cracked my dash before I realized that I needed to brace it up some more :D.
-P.




ok, that makes a lil more sense considering none of that is in your sig lol.

i have:
eibach 2in front sway, and 1.25in rear sway
eibach sportline springs
bmr strut brace
bmr adj race lca's
bmr adj race panhard
tokico d-specs (set 1 turn from full hard)
nitto 555r tires (275/40, vs stock 235/55)

there is no body roll whatsoever, and it handles SHARP (friend with an m3 with full coilovers and sways told me "wow, no thanks you'll take me" referencing running them out at salmon falls (canyon roads) when he took it for a spin lol). the only downside is the ride is quite freaking stiff, though not "bumpy" per se

Yea, no one here has ever seen my car in person/video/pics. I'm making this up.

Let me break it down to you.

My car with a cam and some bolt-ons, with STOCK heads as I said before, makes 393rwhp on a nitrous tune. It then makes, with the same cam and the same bolt-ons AND with stock heads, 500rwhp on nitrous. Motor is 100% stock with the exception of the cam/valvetrain.

Is that easier?

Im still having a hard time believing that basically a stock LS1 motor with JUST a cam and tuning can make 93 more horses. I know the LS heads are really nice and they flow really well out of the box, I suppose Id need to know what your "bolt ons" are.
-P.

ORIGINAL: Sleeper05


ORIGINAL: P Zero


ORIGINAL: Sleeper05

it would take a LOT to handle better than a porsche or M-car, considering:
the convertible version of my car has a stiffer chassis stock than your car with a full 10pt roll cage.
my car is significantly wider, and has better geometry.
i have mcphereson strut arrangement.
after 1500$ (parts, i did the labor) in completely revamped suspension, including a 2.75in drop, plus new/wider/lower-pro/stickier tires, i can only just barely outhandle an M on the twisties.


FMS lower arms with the offset bushings, FMS lowering springs (modified), reversed rims (widens my wheelbase by almost 4"), and heres the kicker 225/40/16 tires. Let me put it to you this way, my Hpipe site about 1" off the ground, if you stand a pack of smokes up, thats where the bottom of my front clip starts. The top of my front bumper is literally 4" below my knee. PLus, I have the 1 7/8" sway bar in the front and a heavy ass sound system in the back for a little more even weight distribution. That in a nutshell will make a fox handle like mad. Gotta brace em up though, I cracked my dash before I realized that I needed to brace it up some more :D.
-P.




ok, that makes a lil more sense considering none of that is in your sig lol.

i have:
eibach 2in front sway, and 1.25in rear sway
eibach sportline springs
bmr strut brace
bmr adj race lca's
bmr adj race panhard
tokico d-specs (set 1 turn from full hard)
nitto 555r tires (275/40, vs stock 235/55)

there is no body roll whatsoever, and it handles SHARP (friend with an m3 with full coilovers and sways told me "wow, no thanks you'll take me" referencing running them out at salmon falls (canyon roads) when he took it for a spin lol). the only downside is the ride is quite freaking stiff, though not "bumpy" per se


Yeah same here, my car rides like a damn brick, rattle your teeth loose on crappy roads. But I bet if you take your factory width and drop your profile about 3 sizes (to a 40) youll be amazed at how much wider they are than factory and how much better itll handle, not to mention youll drop your car another 1.5" .
-P.

i cant clear a speed bump as is...and my suspension and driveline geometry would royally fu(ked over if i went lower. im think bout raisin it UP an inch

ORIGINAL: P Zero

Im still having a hard time believing that basically a stock LS1 motor with JUST a cam and tuning can make 93 more horses. I know the LS heads are really nice and they flow really well out of the box, I suppose Id need to know what your "bolt ons" are.
-P.


Wow, you haven't been around long have you. I have full exhaust and an LS6 intake(come factory stock on the newer LS1's). So basically, full exhaust and a cam. I could make 415rwhp+ on a motor tune with just a cam swap and exhaust.

Oh yea, my car also made 325rwhp with exhaust as the ONLY mod....it was an auto at the time to.

ORIGINAL: 98LS1

ORIGINAL: P Zero

Im still having a hard time believing that basically a stock LS1 motor with JUST a cam and tuning can make 93 more horses. I know the LS heads are really nice and they flow really well out of the box, I suppose Id need to know what your "bolt ons" are.
-P.


Wow, you haven't been around long have you. I have full exhaust and an LS6 intake(come factory stock on the newer LS1's). So basically, full exhaust and a cam. I could make 415rwhp+ on a motor tune with just a cam swap and exhaust.

Oh yea, my car also made 325rwhp with exhaust as the ONLY mod....it was an auto at the time to.


i really hope stage 3 cams on my car will see gains like that with a good tune. considering i made as much rwhp on a mustang dyno with intake, pullies, and tb as the car had at the crank stock, im hoping the good reaction to mods will continue

ORIGINAL: 98LS1

ORIGINAL: P Zero

Im still having a hard time believing that basically a stock LS1 motor with JUST a cam and tuning can make 93 more horses. I know the LS heads are really nice and they flow really well out of the box, I suppose Id need to know what your "bolt ons" are.
-P.


Wow, you haven't been around long have you. I have full exhaust and an LS6 intake(come factory stock on the newer LS1's). So basically, full exhaust and a cam. I could make 415rwhp+ on a motor tune with just a cam swap and exhaust.

Oh yea, my car also made 325rwhp with exhaust as the ONLY mod....it was an auto at the time to.


Im still having a hard time believing that you gained 25 hp from exhaust alone...... Let me tell you a lil story. One day I was my local dragway, Dynamax had their "test" car up there. This is the car they used to make the claim that their mufflers will add up to 30hp over stock mufflers. This car happend to a 1985 mustang with a 460 in it. It ran 9.50's ALL DAY LONG through full exhaust and 10.5 slicks. So as you can see this "test" car has over 100 cubes on you and it gained only 30 hp. Not to mention the motor in this car was FAR from stock and guaranteed breathed better than yours, so.....how does your car get 25? Just doesnt add up bro. I guess I'd just really would like to see some proof.
-P.

ORIGINAL: P Zero

Im still having a hard time believing that basically a stock LS1 motor with JUST a cam and tuning can make 93 more horses. I know the LS heads are really nice and they flow really well out of the box, I suppose Id need to know what your "bolt ons" are.
-P.


If you don't know too much about the LS1 you should shut the hell up and listen. A stock LS1 with a cam and intake can put down some SERIOUS power. Once the restrictive intakes are taken off the engines really wake up. I noticed a huge difference with my CAI on my Z. Sometimes I just wanna pull over after a good kill and kiss my pushrods.

ORIGINAL: P Zero


ORIGINAL: 98LS1

ORIGINAL: P Zero

Im still having a hard time believing that basically a stock LS1 motor with JUST a cam and tuning can make 93 more horses. I know the LS heads are really nice and they flow really well out of the box, I suppose Id need to know what your "bolt ons" are.
-P.



Wow, you haven't been around long have you. I have full exhaust and an LS6 intake(come factory stock on the newer LS1's). So basically, full exhaust and a cam. I could make 415rwhp+ on a motor tune with just a cam swap and exhaust.

Oh yea, my car also made 325rwhp with exhaust as the ONLY mod....it was an auto at the time to.


Im still having a hard time believing that you gained 25 hp from exhaust alone...... Let me tell you a lil story. One day I was my local dragway, Dynamax had their "test" car up there. This is the car they used to make the claim that their mufflers will add up to 30hp over stock mufflers. This car happend to a 1985 mustang with a 460 in it. It ran 9.50's ALL DAY LONG through full exhaust and 10.5 slicks. So as you can see this "test" car has over 100 cubes on you and it gained only 30 hp. Not to mention the motor in this car was FAR from stock and guaranteed breathed better than yours, so.....how does your car get 25? Just doesnt add up bro. I guess I'd just really would like to see some proof.
-P.

i gained 35rwhp from an intake. how hard is it to beleive a bigger motor can do it with exhaust? you are aggravating me.

ORIGINAL: Sleeper05

i cant clear a speed bump as is...and my suspension and driveline geometry would royally fu(ked over if i went lower. im think bout raisin it UP an inch


Actually it wouldnt affect the geometry at all, because the only thing youre doing is changing the tire size, so no angles are changed, youre just changing sidewall height.

When I drive my stang there are definitly certain places I wont/cant go, unless I wanna mess my clip up, which the bottom is already scratched to sh!t.
-P.

ORIGINAL: Birdieman4

Why did you have to say that? Have you ever had a GM block? Technically the engines found in F-bodys and Vettes are small blocks. They are not "big blocks" as you call them. I will guarantee that the 5.7L engine in my Z06 wieghs less than the 4.6L one in my GT. Dissplacement doesn't always mean more wieght. Why would the GM guys be whinners? They have been winning the street races for decades now. Heres a prediction for you a 1998 stock camaro will still be faster than a 2008 stock Mustang GT. That means that even after 10 years the GT still comes in 2nd place. So according to my assumptions the GM guys have something to be proud of for a long time. Ford will get the hint and go for larger dissplacement soner or later. The GM blocks are so simple to modify is ridiculous. To be quite honest this entire argument is subjective. You guys mention nitrous and forced induction like the LSX engines can't do the same. Stock for stock mod for mod, you will not keep up with a LSX engine with equal drivers.
A few things here. First, I said it because there are several people here who seem to think that Ford is somehow behind in technology by running a 5.4 blown motor in the GT500 vs, a larger, built n/a powerplant. That was one of my points. Comments like "Ford needs a blower to keep up with chevy" is rediculous. Ford could have developed a n/a big block, similarly used in the Z06, but they chose to go the blower route.
I will guarantee that the 5.7L engine in my Z06 wieghs less than the 4.6L one in my GT.
I mean keeping all things equal. ie., iron block to iron block, aluminum to aluminum.
So what are you camparing then? The F-bodys and Vettes have aluminum blocks.
Heres a prediction for you a 1998 stock camaro will still be faster than a 2008 stock Mustang GT.
As in it will have more hp? (As it should if it has more cubes)
My point is that I'd rather have dislplacement with an option to be supercharged. The LS1 camaro's are still feared till this day by a N/A mustang
Why would the GM guys be whinners? They have been winning the street races for decades now. Heres a prediction for you a 1998 stock camaro will still be faster than a 2008 stock Mustang GT. That means that even after 10 years the GT still comes in 2nd place.
With more cubes, sure, and that's what im talking about. GM owners seem to have a short memory when it comes to cubic inches.
The GM blocks are so simple to modify is ridiculous.
Not as easy as changing a blower pulley :D
Not all stangs have blowers. All LS1 F-bodies and Vettes are easy to modify while N/A. Now if they they get a blower too and change their pulleys you will be right back where you started.

is it just me, or do "mr rogers" and "birdieman" sound like main characters from childrens' television shows?

im bored as FU(K at work right now, i apologize

There is no replacement for displacment because it's all throttle, no bottle.

FUkin typical GM @ssholes, you guys think that your fukin chevy is gods gift to the automotive world, HA! The ALMIGHTY LS1, HA! Its still a pushrod V-8, is it not? 25rwhp is an ASTRONOMICAL gain from JUST exhaust. So at the crank that a 31 hp gain, unbelievable, thats more than that BUILT 460 gained, that is TRULY amazing. On the intake I could see that happening, but definitly NOT on the exhaust, unless you went from 2" single exhaust, to 2.25 duals. I thnk its bullsh!t.
-P.

ORIGINAL: Sleeper05

is it just me, or do "mr rogers" and "birdieman" sound like main characters from childrens' television shows?

im bored as FU(K at work right now, i apologize



"Its a beautiful day in the neighborhood"....

ORIGINAL: P Zero

FUkin typical GM @ssholes, you guys think that your fukin chevy is gods gift to the automotive world, HA! The ALMIGHTY LS1, HA! Its still a pushrod V-8, is it not? 25rwhp is an ASTRONOMICAL gain from JUST exhaust. So at the crank that a 31 hp gain, unbelievable, thats more than that BUILT 460 gained, that is TRULY amazing. On the intake I could see that happening, but definitly NOT on the exhaust, unless you went from 2" single exhaust, to 2.25 duals. I thnk its bullsh!t.
-P.


...and i expect 35rwhp additional gain from the exhaust im puttin on in a couple weeks. please stop being a ford fanboy, fanboys are not allowed on this site regardless of how much gm sucks anus

ORIGINAL: MrRogers


ORIGINAL: Sleeper05

is it just me, or do "mr rogers" and "birdieman" sound like main characters from childrens' television shows?

im bored as FU(K at work right now, i apologize



"Its a beautiful day in the neighborhood"....


no offense intended, but that guy always gave me the creeps...like he was a child rapist and murderer or something...i would def have never felt comfortable alone in the same room as him at least.

ORIGINAL: P Zero

FUkin typical GM @ssholes, you guys think that your fukin chevy is gods gift to the automotive world, HA! The ALMIGHTY LS1, HA! Its still a pushrod V-8, is it not? 25rwhp is an ASTRONOMICAL gain from JUST exhaust. So at the crank that a 31 hp gain, unbelievable, thats more than that BUILT 460 gained, that is TRULY amazing. On the intake I could see that happening, but definitly NOT on the exhaust, unless you went from 2" single exhaust, to 2.25 duals. I thnk its bullsh!t.
-P.


Hell yeah it is. Your just mad because I don't need four cams to smoke you. Did you check out that other thread with the 516rwhp Cobra being walked by a stock N/A pushrod engine? How could this be?

ORIGINAL: Sleeper05


ORIGINAL: P Zero

FUkin typical GM @ssholes, you guys think that your fukin chevy is gods gift to the automotive world, HA! The ALMIGHTY LS1, HA! Its still a pushrod V-8, is it not? 25rwhp is an ASTRONOMICAL gain from JUST exhaust. So at the crank that a 31 hp gain, unbelievable, thats more than that BUILT 460 gained, that is TRULY amazing. On the intake I could see that happening, but definitly NOT on the exhaust, unless you went from 2" single exhaust, to 2.25 duals. I thnk its bullsh!t.
-P.


...and i expect 35rwhp additional gain from the exhaust im puttin on in a couple weeks. please stop being a ford fanboy, fanboys are not allowed on this site regardless of how much gm sucks anus


Sleeper next time you come down to So Cal and we race, could you tell me if my exhaust tips seem to shake as I pull away? Some guy in a Cobra told me this once...

ORIGINAL: MrRogers


ORIGINAL: Sleeper05


ORIGINAL: P Zero

FUkin typical GM @ssholes, you guys think that your fukin chevy is gods gift to the automotive world, HA! The ALMIGHTY LS1, HA! Its still a pushrod V-8, is it not? 25rwhp is an ASTRONOMICAL gain from JUST exhaust. So at the crank that a 31 hp gain, unbelievable, thats more than that BUILT 460 gained, that is TRULY amazing. On the intake I could see that happening, but definitly NOT on the exhaust, unless you went from 2" single exhaust, to 2.25 duals. I thnk its bullsh!t.
-P.


...and i expect 35rwhp additional gain from the exhaust im puttin on in a couple weeks. please stop being a ford fanboy, fanboys are not allowed on this site regardless of how much gm sucks anus


Sleeper next time you come down to So Cal and we race, could you tell me if my exhaust tips seem to shake as I pull away? Some guy in a Cobra told me this once...


typical GM car=shlt is already falling apart

how bout you tell me how long the flames that shoot out of my exhaust tips are, considering the long tubes and straight pipes ill have on.

ORIGINAL: Sleeper05


ORIGINAL: MrRogers


ORIGINAL: Sleeper05


ORIGINAL: P Zero

FUkin typical GM @ssholes, you guys think that your fukin chevy is gods gift to the automotive world, HA! The ALMIGHTY LS1, HA! Its still a pushrod V-8, is it not? 25rwhp is an ASTRONOMICAL gain from JUST exhaust. So at the crank that a 31 hp gain, unbelievable, thats more than that BUILT 460 gained, that is TRULY amazing. On the intake I could see that happening, but definitly NOT on the exhaust, unless you went from 2" single exhaust, to 2.25 duals. I thnk its bullsh!t.
-P.


...and i expect 35rwhp additional gain from the exhaust im puttin on in a couple weeks. please stop being a ford fanboy, fanboys are not allowed on this site regardless of how much gm sucks anus


Sleeper next time you come down to So Cal and we race, could you tell me if my exhaust tips seem to shake as I pull away? Some guy in a Cobra told me this once...


typical GM car=shlt is already falling apart

how bout you tell me how long the flames that shoot out of my exhaust tips are, considering the long tubes and straight pipes ill have on.


Sure no prob. I'm i'll get to see them soner or later after I slow down and let you do a ricer fly by.

ORIGINAL: MrRogers


ORIGINAL: Sleeper05


ORIGINAL: MrRogers


ORIGINAL: Sleeper05


ORIGINAL: P Zero

FUkin typical GM @ssholes, you guys think that your fukin chevy is gods gift to the automotive world, HA! The ALMIGHTY LS1, HA! Its still a pushrod V-8, is it not? 25rwhp is an ASTRONOMICAL gain from JUST exhaust. So at the crank that a 31 hp gain, unbelievable, thats more than that BUILT 460 gained, that is TRULY amazing. On the intake I could see that happening, but definitly NOT on the exhaust, unless you went from 2" single exhaust, to 2.25 duals. I thnk its bullsh!t.
-P.


...and i expect 35rwhp additional gain from the exhaust im puttin on in a couple weeks. please stop being a ford fanboy, fanboys are not allowed on this site regardless of how much gm sucks anus


Sleeper next time you come down to So Cal and we race, could you tell me if my exhaust tips seem to shake as I pull away? Some guy in a Cobra told me this once...


typical GM car=shlt is already falling apart

how bout you tell me how long the flames that shoot out of my exhaust tips are, considering the long tubes and straight pipes ill have on.


Sure no prob. I'm i'll get to see them soner or later after I slow down and let you do a ricer fly by.


sure, the only problem is the reason you'll slow down is cuz ur gm pos broke, not cuz you wanted to see my flames

stop comparing the flames that come from your rear-ends, homos.

please, carry on.

ORIGINAL: redass02gt

stop comparing the flames that come from your rear-ends, homos.

please, carry on.


at least i dont have a monkey popping a squat on the hood of my car while flipping me off in my sig.

carry on now.

Im not being a fanboy, the claims these guys are makin are just preposterous. It wouldnt matter if I drove a Ford or not, in order for me to believe them I would need to see dyno readings before and after. Its like saying I put a CAI on my car it gained 40HP. Mustve been from the stickers.
And mr-rodgers if a STOCK n/a car walked a 516hp cobra, then someone there is full of it, either the guy with the cobra didnt really have 516 hp or that N/A wasnt stock. Or the other scenario, the guy in the cobra just didnt know how to drive. Ive beaten cars like that, that shouldve whooped my ass but the guy couldnt drive and I won. Somethings amiss there.
And sleeper, could you dyno your car before and after? That would be cool, then you could substantiate your claims.
-P.

ORIGINAL: P Zero

Im not being a fanboy, the claims these guys are makin are just preposterous. It wouldnt matter if I drove a Ford or not, in order for me to believe them I would need to see dyno readings before and after. Its like saying I put a CAI on my car it gained 40HP. Mustve been from the stickers.
And mr-rodgers if a STOCK n/a car walked a 516hp cobra, then someone there is full of it, either the guy with the cobra didnt really have 516 hp or that N/A wasnt stock. Or the other scenario, the guy in the cobra just didnt know how to drive. Ive beaten cars like that, that shouldve whooped my ass but the guy couldnt drive and I won. Somethings amiss there.
And sleeper, could you dyno your car before and after? That would be cool, then you could substantiate your claims.
-P.




ORIGINAL: Sleeper05
i gained 35rwhp from an intake. how hard is it to beleive a bigger motor can do it with exhaust? you are aggravating me.


isn't that exactly what i said i did?

ORIGINAL: P Zero

Im not being a fanboy, the claims these guys are makin are just preposterous. It wouldnt matter if I drove a Ford or not, in order for me to believe them I would need to see dyno readings before and after. Its like saying I put a CAI on my car it gained 40HP. Mustve been from the stickers.
And mr-rodgers if a STOCK n/a car walked a 516hp cobra, then someone there is full of it, either the guy with the cobra didnt really have 516 hp or that N/A wasnt stock. Or the other scenario, the guy in the cobra just didnt know how to drive. Ive beaten cars like that, that shouldve whooped my ass but the guy couldnt drive and I won. Somethings amiss there.
And sleeper, could you dyno your car before and after? That would be cool, then you could substantiate your claims.
-P.




The N/A car was a 2006 Z06. No driver error. Just another pushrod.....

What else is done to the car.....and I cant see a CAI makin that much power either. Unless your stock air intake tube was a McDonalds straw.
-P.

ORIGINAL: P Zero

And mr-rodgers if a STOCK n/a car walked a 516hp cobra, then someone there is full of it, either the guy with the cobra didnt really have 516 hp or that N/A wasnt stock. Or the other scenario, the guy in the cobra just didnt know how to drive. Ive beaten cars like that, that shouldve whooped my ass but the guy couldnt drive and I won. Somethings amiss there.


Weight difference and better Suspension = Z06 = Owned the Cobra.

ORIGINAL: MrRogers


ORIGINAL: P Zero

Im not being a fanboy, the claims these guys are makin are just preposterous. It wouldnt matter if I drove a Ford or not, in order for me to believe them I would need to see dyno readings before and after. Its like saying I put a CAI on my car it gained 40HP. Mustve been from the stickers.
And mr-rodgers if a STOCK n/a car walked a 516hp cobra, then someone there is full of it, either the guy with the cobra didnt really have 516 hp or that N/A wasnt stock. Or the other scenario, the guy in the cobra just didnt know how to drive. Ive beaten cars like that, that shouldve whooped my ass but the guy couldnt drive and I won. Somethings amiss there.
And sleeper, could you dyno your car before and after? That would be cool, then you could substantiate your claims.
-P.




The N/A car was a 2006 Z06. No driver error. Just another pushrod.....


What are the power ratings on the Z06?
-P.

ORIGINAL: P Zero

ORIGINAL: MrRogers


ORIGINAL: P Zero

Im not being a fanboy, the claims these guys are makin are just preposterous. It wouldnt matter if I drove a Ford or not, in order for me to believe them I would need to see dyno readings before and after. Its like saying I put a CAI on my car it gained 40HP. Mustve been from the stickers.
And mr-rodgers if a STOCK n/a car walked a 516hp cobra, then someone there is full of it, either the guy with the cobra didnt really have 516 hp or that N/A wasnt stock. Or the other scenario, the guy in the cobra just didnt know how to drive. Ive beaten cars like that, that shouldve whooped my ass but the guy couldnt drive and I won. Somethings amiss there.
And sleeper, could you dyno your car before and after? That would be cool, then you could substantiate your claims.
-P.




The N/A car was a 2006 Z06. No driver error. Just another pushrod.....


What are the power ratings on the Z06?
-P.


# LS7 7.0-liter/427-cubic-inch Gen IV V-8 with lightweight reciprocating components
# 505 horsepower (373 kw) at 6200 rpm
# 475 lb.-ft. of torque (657 Nm) at 4800 rpm
# 7000 rpm redline
# Titanium connecting rods and intake valves

ORIGINAL: UrSSlow

ORIGINAL: P Zero

ORIGINAL: MrRogers


ORIGINAL: P Zero

Im not being a fanboy, the claims these guys are makin are just preposterous. It wouldnt matter if I drove a Ford or not, in order for me to believe them I would need to see dyno readings before and after. Its like saying I put a CAI on my car it gained 40HP. Mustve been from the stickers.
And mr-rodgers if a STOCK n/a car walked a 516hp cobra, then someone there is full of it, either the guy with the cobra didnt really have 516 hp or that N/A wasnt stock. Or the other scenario, the guy in the cobra just didnt know how to drive. Ive beaten cars like that, that shouldve whooped my ass but the guy couldnt drive and I won. Somethings amiss there.
And sleeper, could you dyno your car before and after? That would be cool, then you could substantiate your claims.
-P.




The N/A car was a 2006 Z06. No driver error. Just another pushrod.....


What are the power ratings on the Z06?
-P.


# LS7 7.0-liter/427-cubic-inch Gen IV V-8 with lightweight reciprocating components
# 505 horsepower (373 kw) at 6200 rpm
# 475 lb.-ft. of torque (657 Nm) at 4800 rpm
# 7000 rpm redline
# Titanium connecting rods and intake valves



that 505 to the fly wheel. now to the wheels its about 480 or so. that how all engines are

Damn, sounds like a badass motor......but I guess you get what you pay for. Yeah I could see that happening then, plus the vette is MUCH lighter than the cobra. Thats the only chevy that I would drive/own. Vette's have always been really sweet cars in my opinion.
Hmmm.....................perhaps FOrd shouldve put the all aluminum 427 into the new GT500......................
-P.

Cobra Curb Weight - 3,665 lbs.
Z06 Curb Weight - 3130 lbs.

ORIGINAL: P Zero

What else is done to the car.....and I cant see a CAI makin that much power either. Unless your stock air intake tube was a McDonalds straw.
-P.

the stock intake flows fairly well. i think i left out the part about getting a dyno tune for the intake, however. but i assume that same goes with a cam, so no diff.

ORIGINAL: P Zero

Damn, sounds like a badass motor......but I guess you get what you pay for. Yeah I could see that happening then, plus the vette is MUCH lighter than the cobra. Thats the only chevy that I would drive/own. Vette's have always been really sweet cars in my opinion.
Hmmm.....................perhaps FOrd shouldve put the all aluminum 427 into the new GT500......................
-P.



The LS7 is an awsome motor. The torque curve is what really pushes it over the top. I am about to trade my Z in and get a new one. I can't wait.

ORIGINAL: Sleeper05


ORIGINAL: P Zero

What else is done to the car.....and I cant see a CAI makin that much power either. Unless your stock air intake tube was a McDonalds straw.
-P.

the stock intake flows fairly well. i think i left out the part about getting a dyno tune for the intake, however. but i assume that same goes with a cam, so no diff.


LOL! Um yeah, thats kinda crucial info. lol
-P.

ORIGINAL: P Zero

Damn, sounds like a badass motor......but I guess you get what you pay for. Yeah I could see that happening then, plus the vette is MUCH lighter than the cobra. Thats the only chevy that I would drive/own. Vette's have always been really sweet cars in my opinion.
Hmmm.....................perhaps FOrd shouldve put the all aluminum 427 into the new GT500......................
-P.


Dood...you're a fu(kin piece of work. A Corvette is the only Chevy you'd own? Just so happens, my car comes with the IDENTICAL FU(KING MOTOR as the C5 Corvettes. I know I know, one is rated at 350hp and the other is 310hp or w/e.....they're UNDERRATED! Can you not understand that? My car made 325rwhp with exhaust only....who knows what it dyno'd bone stock. I'd guess over 300rwhp, as 99% of the LS1's do. How many videos of dyno pulls, dyno graphs, timed track passes do you need to understand this? The car was running 8.0000000's on motor with a stall/exhaust/555r's and going mid 7's with a 50rwhp shot. It's ALL on video. How hard is this to comprehend?

EDIT: before you go ape ****, this was in the 1/8 mile.

I love these threads!

ORIGINAL: 98LS1

ORIGINAL: P Zero

Damn, sounds like a badass motor......but I guess you get what you pay for. Yeah I could see that happening then, plus the vette is MUCH lighter than the cobra. Thats the only chevy that I would drive/own. Vette's have always been really sweet cars in my opinion.
Hmmm.....................perhaps FOrd shouldve put the all aluminum 427 into the new GT500......................
-P.


Dood...you're a fu(kin piece of work. A Corvette is the only Chevy you'd own? Just so happens, my car comes with the IDENTICAL FU(KING MOTOR as the C5 Corvettes. I know I know, one is rated at 350hp and the other is 310hp or w/e.....they're UNDERRATED! Can you not understand that? My car made 325rwhp with exhaust only....who knows what it dyno'd bone stock. I'd guess over 300rwhp, as 99% of the LS1's do. How many videos of dyno pulls, dyno graphs, timed track passes do you need to understand this? The car was running 8.0000000's on motor with a stall/exhaust/555r's and going mid 7's with a 50rwhp shot. It's ALL on video. How hard is this to comprehend?

EDIT: before you go ape ****, this was in the 1/8 mile.


He's a douche. All LS1s dyno over 300rwhp. Camaros are basicaly Corvettes with back seats.

ORIGINAL: MrRogers


ORIGINAL: 98LS1

ORIGINAL: P Zero

Damn, sounds like a badass motor......but I guess you get what you pay for. Yeah I could see that happening then, plus the vette is MUCH lighter than the cobra. Thats the only chevy that I would drive/own. Vette's have always been really sweet cars in my opinion.
Hmmm.....................perhaps FOrd shouldve put the all aluminum 427 into the new GT500......................
-P.


Dood...you're a fu(kin piece of work. A Corvette is the only Chevy you'd own? Just so happens, my car comes with the IDENTICAL FU(KING MOTOR as the C5 Corvettes. I know I know, one is rated at 350hp and the other is 310hp or w/e.....they're UNDERRATED! Can you not understand that? My car made 325rwhp with exhaust only....who knows what it dyno'd bone stock. I'd guess over 300rwhp, as 99% of the LS1's do. How many videos of dyno pulls, dyno graphs, timed track passes do you need to understand this? The car was running 8.0000000's on motor with a stall/exhaust/555r's and going mid 7's with a 50rwhp shot. It's ALL on video. How hard is this to comprehend?

EDIT: before you go ape ****, this was in the 1/8 mile.


He's a douche. All LS1s dyno over 300rwhp. Camaros are basicaly Corvettes with back seats.

I got to save that one for a quote.

ORIGINAL: MrRogers


ORIGINAL: 98LS1

ORIGINAL: P Zero

Damn, sounds like a badass motor......but I guess you get what you pay for. Yeah I could see that happening then, plus the vette is MUCH lighter than the cobra. Thats the only chevy that I would drive/own. Vette's have always been really sweet cars in my opinion.
Hmmm.....................perhaps FOrd shouldve put the all aluminum 427 into the new GT500......................
-P.


Dood...you're a fu(kin piece of work. A Corvette is the only Chevy you'd own? Just so happens, my car comes with the IDENTICAL FU(KING MOTOR as the C5 Corvettes. I know I know, one is rated at 350hp and the other is 310hp or w/e.....they're UNDERRATED! Can you not understand that? My car made 325rwhp with exhaust only....who knows what it dyno'd bone stock. I'd guess over 300rwhp, as 99% of the LS1's do. How many videos of dyno pulls, dyno graphs, timed track passes do you need to understand this? The car was running 8.0000000's on motor with a stall/exhaust/555r's and going mid 7's with a 50rwhp shot. It's ALL on video. How hard is this to comprehend?

EDIT: before you go ape ****, this was in the 1/8 mile.


He's a douche. All LS1s dyno over 300rwhp. Camaros are basicaly Corvettes with back seats.


Camaros are NOTHING like a corvette, other than chevy put the same motor in em. Not even close, I've known several vette owners that would take offense to that statement.
And LS1 I havent seen any videos. And my statement about a badass motor sure as fuk not about the LS1, it was about the Z06 427. And another thing 1/8th mile means about sh!t to me, run it in the 1/4 and tell me.
And rodgers its pretty pathetic you have to resort to trying to insult me.
-P.

ORIGINAL: P Zero

ORIGINAL: MrRogers


ORIGINAL: 98LS1

ORIGINAL: P Zero

Damn, sounds like a badass motor......but I guess you get what you pay for. Yeah I could see that happening then, plus the vette is MUCH lighter than the cobra. Thats the only chevy that I would drive/own. Vette's have always been really sweet cars in my opinion.
Hmmm.....................perhaps FOrd shouldve put the all aluminum 427 into the new GT500......................
-P.


Dood...you're a fu(kin piece of work. A Corvette is the only Chevy you'd own? Just so happens, my car comes with the IDENTICAL FU(KING MOTOR as the C5 Corvettes. I know I know, one is rated at 350hp and the other is 310hp or w/e.....they're UNDERRATED! Can you not understand that? My car made 325rwhp with exhaust only....who knows what it dyno'd bone stock. I'd guess over 300rwhp, as 99% of the LS1's do. How many videos of dyno pulls, dyno graphs, timed track passes do you need to understand this? The car was running 8.0000000's on motor with a stall/exhaust/555r's and going mid 7's with a 50rwhp shot. It's ALL on video. How hard is this to comprehend?

EDIT: before you go ape ****, this was in the 1/8 mile.


He's a douche. All LS1s dyno over 300rwhp. Camaros are basicaly Corvettes with back seats.


Camaros are NOTHING like a corvette, other than chevy put the same motor in em. Not even close, I've known several vette owners that would take offense to that statement.
And LS1 I havent seen any videos. And my statement about a badass motor sure as fuk not about the LS1, it was about the Z06 427. And another thing 1/8th mile means about sh!t to me, run it in the 1/4 and tell me.
And rodgers its pretty pathetic you have to resort to trying to insult me.
-P.


Originaly posted by Pzero:
FUkin typical GM @ssholes, you guys think that your fukin chevy is gods gift to the automotive world (I smell a hypocrite)

Don't get all sensitive on me now that your whole argument is being made off an idotic perception. I've had a SS LS1 camaro MT and I have a Vette. Yes the LS1 Vette is faster but not by much. Since you have never had an engine over 200hp, why don't you be quite and let us school you on how real power feels.













P.S you DOUCHE!

P zero, bottom line is you're ignorant. I have a ****ty 2v... I love the way my car looks but an ls1 is a much better motor,its not even a question. 98ls1 isnt the first one to make those numbers with his mods. :eek:

Seriously you need to look into it, he knows a lot more about mustangs than you know about LSx based motors. Hell you didnt even know the specs on the ls7 you just immediately claimed BS. Also, I believe not completely positive that the ls7 is the same sized block as the ls1.


Stop calling BS on his numbers, they're real lots of people have numbers like that. So shut up, stop being ignorant until you atleast come somewhat back into reality.

ORIGINAL: P Zero

ORIGINAL: MrRogers


ORIGINAL: 98LS1

ORIGINAL: P Zero

Damn, sounds like a badass motor......but I guess you get what you pay for. Yeah I could see that happening then, plus the vette is MUCH lighter than the cobra. Thats the only chevy that I would drive/own. Vette's have always been really sweet cars in my opinion.
Hmmm.....................perhaps FOrd shouldve put the all aluminum 427 into the new GT500......................
-P.


Dood...you're a fu(kin piece of work. A Corvette is the only Chevy you'd own? Just so happens, my car comes with the IDENTICAL FU(KING MOTOR as the C5 Corvettes. I know I know, one is rated at 350hp and the other is 310hp or w/e.....they're UNDERRATED! Can you not understand that? My car made 325rwhp with exhaust only....who knows what it dyno'd bone stock. I'd guess over 300rwhp, as 99% of the LS1's do. How many videos of dyno pulls, dyno graphs, timed track passes do you need to understand this? The car was running 8.0000000's on motor with a stall/exhaust/555r's and going mid 7's with a 50rwhp shot. It's ALL on video. How hard is this to comprehend?

EDIT: before you go ape ****, this was in the 1/8 mile.


He's a douche. All LS1s dyno over 300rwhp. Camaros are basicaly Corvettes with back seats.


Camaros are NOTHING like a corvette, other than chevy put the same motor in em. Not even close, I've known several vette owners that would take offense to that statement.
And LS1 I havent seen any videos. And my statement about a badass motor sure as fuk not about the LS1, it was about the Z06 427. And another thing 1/8th mile means about sh!t to me, run it in the 1/4 and tell me.
And rodgers its pretty pathetic you have to resort to trying to insult me.
-P.





you are NOT gonna win this fight with mr rogers, not even close...welcome to "a beautiful day in HIS neighborhood"

Rodgers,
Just because they had similar 1/4 times that thay are even CLOSE to being the same. Corvettes were intended to CORNER, which camaros REALLY suck at. Hell all F bodies suck at.

PS rodgers Fuk you.

czwalga, get some big valve 2v haeds then talk to me. And btw, if you had actually read the posts you wouldve possible picked up that we had discussed the ls1 and the ls7, LS1= 346, LS7 = 427. So maybe before you call me ignorant read the fukin posts, it was IMPLIED that it was a 350 based car, that beat a 500hp cobra.
-P.

ORIGINAL: P Zero

Rodgers,
Just because they had similar 1/4 times that thay are even CLOSE to being the same. Corvettes were intended to CORNER, which camaros REALLY suck at. Hell all F bodies suck at.

PS rodgers Fuk you.

czwalga, get some big valve 2v haeds then talk to me. And btw, if you had actually read the posts you wouldve possible picked up that we had discussed the ls1 and the ls7, LS1= 346, LS7 = 427. So maybe before you call me ignorant read the fukin posts, it was IMPLIED that it was a 350 based car, that beat a 500hp cobra.
-P.


In the world of street racing and drag strips, where in the hell does cornering come in? Why don't you go buy a real car you domestic ricer?




P.S you have to catch me first and in your Sh!tmobile I don't think thats possible.

ORIGINAL: P Zero

Rodgers,
Just because they had similar 1/4 times that thay are even CLOSE to being the same. Corvettes were intended to CORNER, which camaros REALLY suck at. Hell all F bodies suck at.

PS rodgers Fuk you.

czwalga, get some big valve 2v haeds then talk to me. And btw, if you had actually read the posts you wouldve possible picked up that we had discussed the ls1 and the ls7, LS1= 346, LS7 = 427. So maybe before you call me ignorant read the fukin posts, it was IMPLIED that it was a 350 based car, that beat a 500hp cobra.
-P.



You're an idiot and can't read the words for what they are. You couldn't understand 98ls1's motor on nitrous tune and you cant understand this. Just because the bore and stroke is different on the ls7, I believe the actual block size is the same. I know its a 427. :eek:

You have been proved wrong many times in this thread, when are you going to concede that an ls1 with a cam and bolt ons can put down that kind of power?



Also, why can't I talk to you until i get big 2v heads? I have all the power I need in my closet to beat your 20 year old car.

ORIGINAL: czwalga00gt

ORIGINAL: P Zero

Rodgers,
Just because they had similar 1/4 times that thay are even CLOSE to being the same. Corvettes were intended to CORNER, which camaros REALLY suck at. Hell all F bodies suck at.

PS rodgers Fuk you.

czwalga, get some big valve 2v haeds then talk to me. And btw, if you had actually read the posts you wouldve possible picked up that we had discussed the ls1 and the ls7, LS1= 346, LS7 = 427. So maybe before you call me ignorant read the fukin posts, it was IMPLIED that it was a 350 based car, that beat a 500hp cobra.
-P.



You're an idiot and can't read the words for what they are. You couldn't understand 98ls1's motor on nitrous tune and you cant understand this. Just because the bore and stroke is different on the ls7, I believe the actual block size is the same. I know its a 427. :eek:

You have been proved wrong many times in this thread, when are you going to concede that an ls1 with a cam and bolt ons can put down that kind of power?



Also, why can't I talk to you until i get big 2v heads? I have all the power I need in my closet to beat your 20 year old car.


Yes they are about the same size. And due to it's titanium internal parts the LS7 is even lighter than the LS1.

ORIGINAL: MrRogers


ORIGINAL: P Zero

Rodgers,
Just because they had similar 1/4 times that thay are even CLOSE to being the same. Corvettes were intended to CORNER, which camaros REALLY suck at. Hell all F bodies suck at.

PS rodgers Fuk you.

czwalga, get some big valve 2v haeds then talk to me. And btw, if you had actually read the posts you wouldve possible picked up that we had discussed the ls1 and the ls7, LS1= 346, LS7 = 427. So maybe before you call me ignorant read the fukin posts, it was IMPLIED that it was a 350 based car, that beat a 500hp cobra.
-P.


In the world of street racing and drag strips, where in the hell does cornering come in? Why don't you go buy a real car you domestic ricer?




P.S you have to catch me first and in your Sh!tmobile I don't think thats possible.


I've got the popcorn and soda. This is more entertaining than a freakin' movie[sm=happy046.gif]

ORIGINAL: C6 VETTE


ORIGINAL: MrRogers


ORIGINAL: P Zero

Rodgers,
Just because they had similar 1/4 times that thay are even CLOSE to being the same. Corvettes were intended to CORNER, which camaros REALLY suck at. Hell all F bodies suck at.

PS rodgers Fuk you.

czwalga, get some big valve 2v haeds then talk to me. And btw, if you had actually read the posts you wouldve possible picked up that we had discussed the ls1 and the ls7, LS1= 346, LS7 = 427. So maybe before you call me ignorant read the fukin posts, it was IMPLIED that it was a 350 based car, that beat a 500hp cobra.
-P.


In the world of street racing and drag strips, where in the hell does cornering come in? Why don't you go buy a real car you domestic ricer?




P.S you have to catch me first and in your Sh!tmobile I don't think thats possible.


I've got the popcorn and soda. This is more entertaining than a freakin' movie[sm=happy046.gif]



i call dibs on the JR Mints

ORIGINAL: Sleeper05


ORIGINAL: C6 VETTE


ORIGINAL: MrRogers


ORIGINAL: P Zero

Rodgers,
Just because they had similar 1/4 times that thay are even CLOSE to being the same. Corvettes were intended to CORNER, which camaros REALLY suck at. Hell all F bodies suck at.

PS rodgers Fuk you.

czwalga, get some big valve 2v haeds then talk to me. And btw, if you had actually read the posts you wouldve possible picked up that we had discussed the ls1 and the ls7, LS1= 346, LS7 = 427. So maybe before you call me ignorant read the fukin posts, it was IMPLIED that it was a 350 based car, that beat a 500hp cobra.
-P.


In the world of street racing and drag strips, where in the hell does cornering come in? Why don't you go buy a real car you domestic ricer?




P.S you have to catch me first and in your Sh!tmobile I don't think thats possible.


I've got the popcorn and soda. This is more entertaining than a freakin' movie[sm=happy046.gif]



i call dibs on the JR Mints



Bon Bons are better!!!!!!HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Czwalga Id smoke you so hard on a road course, and well why is the sh!t in your closet? Even with that sh!t on your car youd wreck in the corners before you could catch me.
You know how many old school hot rodders I told about this guys claim of makin 25 hp from exahsut today? At least 7, and they fukin laughed when I told them that a guy with a bone stock 98 z28 claimed to gain 25 hp just from bolting on exhaust. Now are you gonna tell me that 7 ASE certified mechanics are full of **** and stupid? And with what your time says up there you aint catchin sh!t.
And rodgers wtf is a real car? A chevy? Only if its a C6 z06. Seeing as I cant afford one I drive my stang. And rodgers my caris a purpose built STREET car, there are corners on streets, and personally I like to race on the Eways at speeds that youd probably sh!t yourself, and thats where cornering is important. Obviously you dont drive as fast as I do so shut youe yapper boy.
-P.

ORIGINAL: P Zero

Czwalga Id smoke you so hard on a road course, and well why is the sh!t in your closet? Even with that sh!t on your car youd wreck in the corners before you could catch me.
You know how many old school hot rodders I told about this guys claim of makin 25 hp from exahsut today? At least 7, and they fukin laughed when I told them that a guy with a bone stock 98 z28 claimed to gain 25 hp just from bolting on exhaust. Now are you gonna tell me that 7 ASE certified mechanics are full of **** and stupid? And with what your time says up there you aint catchin sh!t.
And rodgers wtf is a real car? A chevy? Only if its a C6 z06. Seeing as I cant afford one I drive my stang. And rodgers my caris a purpose built STREET car, there are corners on streets, and personally I like to race on the Eways at speeds that youd probably sh!t yourself, and thats where cornering is important. Obviously you dont drive as fast as I do so shut youe yapper boy.
-P.


an LS2 C6 is no joke either!!!

ORIGINAL: P Zero

Czwalga Id smoke you so hard on a road course, and well why is the sh!t in your closet? Even with that sh!t on your car youd wreck in the corners before you could catch me.
You know how many old school hot rodders I told about this guys claim of makin 25 hp from exahsut today? At least 7, and they fukin laughed when I told them that a guy with a bone stock 98 z28 claimed to gain 25 hp just from bolti