So the mod motor was built as a cheap motor for Ford to slap in every vehicle they could, and they chose the Mustang/Cobra lineup as well as others. The LS motor was built for performance, but happened to fit into every single vehicle GM offers...gets better gas mileage too....where did they go wrong? Same results, different solutions.
not the same results.
they still make mod motor mustangs.
_____________________________
Pitchforks and torches are the answers to all of our nation's problems. KOBE4MVP
So the mod motor was built as a cheap motor for Ford to slap in every vehicle they could, and they chose the Mustang/Cobra lineup as well as others. The LS motor was built for performance, but happened to fit into every single vehicle GM offers...gets better gas mileage too....where did they go wrong? Same results, different solutions.
Let me tell exactly why camaros STOCK were faster than mustang GT's STOCK...........money. In 98 I was lookin at buying a new car, and just for kicks and giggles I comparison shopped the 98 z28 to a 98 cobra and 98 GT. The Z28 with the trim I wanted was around 25K before tax and all that crap. THe cobra was around 22, and the GT around 18. So as you can see, you get what you pay for. But to me it still works out that the mustang is overall BETTER, because I couldve bought a fully loaded GT s/c it, got some badass heads and cams, worked the exhaust, maybe even some gears, and the GT wouldve still cost LESS than the z28, and it wouldve blown the doors right off of that chevy. -P. PS: The 2008 GT will cost just as much as that 1998 Z28 did.
I would have bought the Z28. No need for a blower. A heads and cam package would smoke your supercharged GT.
P.S If it will cost as much why is it still slower?
I see you missed my whole point. If I had bought a 98 GT and put all of those performance parts on there the GT wouldve cost less than JUST THE Z. And just H/C/I on a Z would no way in hell smoke a GT w/ a s/c and h/c/i. I dont know what youre smokin but you need to share damnit! . Hell my N/A 85 smokes 98 z's no problem. But then again I smoke Cobras no problem either. -P.
So the mod motor was built as a cheap motor for Ford to slap in every vehicle they could, and they chose the Mustang/Cobra lineup as well as others. The LS motor was built for performance, but happened to fit into every single vehicle GM offers...gets better gas mileage too....where did they go wrong? Same results, different solutions.
not the same results.
they still make mod motor mustangs.
Right in the kisser!
People don't like performance, what can ya say?
yeah, pretty much, performance never sells cars, so I dunno why GM decided to build a motor with performance as the main goal.
ford's strategy isn't exactly tearing up the new car market outside of the 05/06 stangs either.
_____________________________
Pitchforks and torches are the answers to all of our nation's problems. KOBE4MVP
I see what you're getting at, but a heads/cams/intake/blown 2V GT would probably have a hard time with a heads/cam LS1.....You're looking at 450rwhp+ with one HELL of a power curve.
And oh yea, all my buddies have Foxbodies. And by just looking at your mods, you would be a pretty decent run for an exhaust/lid car. What do you run in the 1/8? 8.40's? 8.20's?
yeah, pretty much, performance never sells cars, so I dunno why GM decided to build a motor with performance as the main goal.
ford's strategy isn't exactly tearing up the new car market outside of the 05/06 stangs either.
Apparently performance doesn't sell cars, just look at how well the SN-95 Stangs sold....or hell, even how well the new ones sell. GM built a high performance motor with economy car specs. How often can you make 450hp and still get 25+mpg? The cars also handle great....but let's not get into why they killed the Crapmaro/Fireturds. At least the Camaro is coming back...but not the way I wanted. Forged LSx/turbo/$35k would have been nice.
Let me tell exactly why camaros STOCK were faster than mustang GT's STOCK...........money. In 98 I was lookin at buying a new car, and just for kicks and giggles I comparison shopped the 98 z28 to a 98 cobra and 98 GT. The Z28 with the trim I wanted was around 25K before tax and all that crap. THe cobra was around 22, and the GT around 18. So as you can see, you get what you pay for. But to me it still works out that the mustang is overall BETTER, because I couldve bought a fully loaded GT s/c it, got some badass heads and cams, worked the exhaust, maybe even some gears, and the GT wouldve still cost LESS than the z28, and it wouldve blown the doors right off of that chevy. -P. PS: The 2008 GT will cost just as much as that 1998 Z28 did.
You were getting a VERY easy to mod and adaptible motor with the $25k on a new Z, which is expensive to me. I think in '02 they were going for $25k and less...brand new.
Just browse that link...the cheapest GT they have is over $28k....one is $35k!
Don't forget, the '03 Cobra's are still comparible in performance, yet cost $10k more than an '02 Z28.
I dont know what planet youre on, the closest competitor in '03 sure as hell wasnt the Z28, it was the vette. 02Z28 = 310hp 03 cobra= 390 hp..........so once again what planet are you on. heres a motor trend link: http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/coupe/112_0305_sport_convertibles_comparison/ And the prices I was comparing was for 1998! not 06. And youre right the chevy 350 IS very easy to mod, but the car REALLY sux to work on. And that 25k figure you came up with musta been for a no option car. -P.
ORIGINAL: P Zero I dont know what planet youre on, the closest competitor in '03 sure as hell wasnt the Z28, it was the vette. 02Z28 = 310hp 03 cobra= 390 hp..........so once again what planet are you on. heres a motor trend link: http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/coupe/112_0305_sport_convertibles_comparison/ And the prices I was comparing was for 1998! not 06. And youre right the chevy 350 IS very easy to mod, but the car REALLY sux to work on. And that 25k figure you came up with musta been for a no option car. -P.
Alright, honestly I'm gonna be nice, you seem like an alright guy, you're just confused. An '02 Z28 would put down 300-315rwhp...not crank, but rwhp. That's around 360hp at the crank. Evan Smith drove a '98 SS, the slowest year made of the LS1's, to a 12.8x in less than ideal weather, this was in MM&FF nonetheless. That same "310hp" car put down 313rwhp or so on the dyno. Is a Cobra faster than a stock LS1, yes. But going by your theory, just $100 thrown at the LS1 for a lid puts it right with the Cobra.
It's not a 350 for one, and how do you know it sucks to work on? Ever worked on an LS1?
Nice thread! I tried to read all of the comments but way to many. Basically this comes to is a LSx vs. 281 money wise and performance argument. I think! Well I own a 5.0 currenlty working on. I owned a 2000 WS6 before this car until I destoyed. All I have to say is that the LS1 is the best bang for your bucks.
ORIGINAL: P Zero I dont know what planet youre on, the closest competitor in '03 sure as hell wasnt the Z28, it was the vette. 02Z28 = 310hp 03 cobra= 390 hp..........so once again what planet are you on. heres a motor trend link: http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/coupe/112_0305_sport_convertibles_comparison/ And the prices I was comparing was for 1998! not 06. And youre right the chevy 350 IS very easy to mod, but the car REALLY sux to work on. And that 25k figure you came up with musta been for a no option car. -P.
Alright, honestly I'm gonna be nice, you seem like an alright guy, you're just confused. An '02 Z28 would put down 300-315rwhp...not crank, but rwhp. That's around 360hp at the crank. Evan Smith drove a '98 SS, the slowest year made of the LS1's, to a 12.8x in less than ideal weather, this was in MM&FF nonetheless. That same "310hp" car put down 313rwhp or so on the dyno. Is a Cobra faster than a stock LS1, yes. But going by your theory, just $100 thrown at the LS1 for a lid puts it right with the Cobra.
It's not a 350 for one, and how do you know it sucks to work on? Ever worked on an LS1?
Add a few bolt on an LS1. Those thing come alive. I need to get me another. Insureance is to high! Damn it!
I see what you're getting at, but a heads/cams/intake/blown 2V GT would probably have a hard time with a heads/cam LS1.....You're looking at 450rwhp+ with one HELL of a power curve.
And oh yea, all my buddies have Foxbodies. And by just looking at your mods, you would be a pretty decent run for an exhaust/lid car. What do you run in the 1/8? 8.40's? 8.20's?
Actually 2V heads flow better than 4v heads. Do some research. 450rwhp is a lot of power, but that would be some crazy heads and a crazy ass cam to go with it to make a 350 do that, cuz you gotta figure it would be 500+ at the crank.
And about my mods....youre assuming that my performance parts are box stock...... I dont drag my car, its not setup for it, its setup for road racing, you know, corners? Thats why it sits soo low. And the 3" is just a guestimation, its probably lower. I like to mess with porsches, m3's and the like, and lose people in the corners...I think it takes more skill. As for draggin, Im building a ranger for that, it already has a 302 w/ an AOD in it, and some slicks, I just gotta get a couple of things so theyll let me run it. -P.
I see what you're getting at, but a heads/cams/intake/blown 2V GT would probably have a hard time with a heads/cam LS1.....You're looking at 450rwhp+ with one HELL of a power curve.
And oh yea, all my buddies have Foxbodies. And by just looking at your mods, you would be a pretty decent run for an exhaust/lid car. What do you run in the 1/8? 8.40's? 8.20's?
Actually 2V heads flow better than 4v heads. Do some research. 450rwhp is a lot of power, but that would be some crazy heads and a crazy ass cam to go with it to make a 350 do that, cuz you gotta figure it would be 500+ at the crank.
I had no idea that the 4.6 SOHC 2v heads flow better than the 4.6 DOHC 4v heads? New to me.
It's NOT a 350...my car makes almost 400rwhp on STOCK heads, factory stock, never removed/touched. This is on a 150 DRY nitrous tune on the STOCK fuel system. I could easily make 415rwhp with a motor tune with just a cam. With a set of heads the car would easily breach the 450rwhp mark. You need to do some research, then come and spout off to others.
So youre saying an LS1 motor ISNT 350 CID??? Wow news to me... And when did I ever say that on that GT I would be using STOCK heads???? Not once. Aftermarket 2v heads will outflow ANY 4.6 4v head, period. And If im adding correctly.....your car would only make 250 rwhp with out the bottle. Correct? How would that be MORE powerful than a 4.6 with aftermarket heads,cams, intake, and s/c? Even with your nitrous youd be lookin at taillights gettin smaller before your very eyes. And it seems pretty obvious you need nitrous to make your power. I wonder what that gt would do with a 150 shot? Make 650hp? -P.
< Message edited by P Zero -- 6/30/2006 4:01:26 PM >
So youre saying an LS1 motor ISNT 350 CID??? Wow news to me... And when did I ever say that on that GT I would be using STOCK heads???? Not once. Aftermarket 2v heads will outflow ANY 4.6 4v head, period. And If im adding correctly.....your car would only make 250 rwhp with out the bottle. Correct? How would that be MORE powerful than a 4.6 with aftermarket heads,cams, intake, and s/c? Even with your nitrous youd be lookin at taillights gettin smaller before your very eyes. And it seems pretty obvious you need nitrous to make your power. I wonder what that gt would do with a 150 shot? Make 650hp? -P.
Honestly...are you that dumb? I made 393rwhp on MOTOR alone. I made 500.3rwhp on the nitrous. WTF are you talking about? And yes, it is 346ci!
pzero, cool it. the ls1 is 346 i believe. also, what kind of suspension do you have giong? it would take a LOT to handle better than a porsche or M-car, considering: the convertible version of my car has a stiffer chassis stock than your car with a full 10pt roll cage. my car is significantly wider, and has better geometry. i have mcphereson strut arrangement. after 1500$ (parts, i did the labor) in completely revamped suspension, including a 2.75in drop, plus new/wider/lower-pro/stickier tires, i can only just barely outhandle an M on the twisties.
_____________________________
05 gt: 12.54 @ 324rwhp/337rwtq Goodies on the way.
PR Manager for Automotive Dezignz MECP Installer and Mobile Product Specialist Mechanical/Manufacturing Engineer.
pzero, cool it. the ls1 is 346 i believe. also, what kind of suspension do you have giong? it would take a LOT to handle better than a porsche or M-car, considering: the convertible version of my car has a stiffer chassis stock than your car with a full 10pt roll cage. my car is significantly wider, and has better geometry. i have mcphereson strut arrangement. after 1500$ (parts, i did the labor) in completely revamped suspension, including a 2.75in drop, plus new/wider/lower-pro/stickier tires, i can only just barely outhandle an M on the twisties.
So youre saying an LS1 motor ISNT 350 CID??? Wow news to me... And when did I ever say that on that GT I would be using STOCK heads???? Not once. Aftermarket 2v heads will outflow ANY 4.6 4v head, period. And If im adding correctly.....your car would only make 250 rwhp with out the bottle. Correct? How would that be MORE powerful than a 4.6 with aftermarket heads,cams, intake, and s/c? Even with your nitrous youd be lookin at taillights gettin smaller before your very eyes. And it seems pretty obvious you need nitrous to make your power. I wonder what that gt would do with a 150 shot? Make 650hp? -P.
Honestly...are you that dumb? I made 393rwhp on MOTOR alone. I made 500.3rwhp on the nitrous. WTF are you talking about? And yes, it is 346ci!
Dude youre so full of sh!t your eyes must be brown, sh!t brown. So a STOCK LS1 makes almost 400 hp???Bullsh!t. And that 346.89 (I believe) is based on the chevy 350 block. heres your exact words -It's NOT a 350...my car makes almost 400rwhp on STOCK heads, factory stock, never removed/touched. This is on a 150 DRY nitrous tune on the STOCK fuel system. Im actually amazed that a BONE STOCK LS1 makes 400rwhp.... Wow so all you would have to do to a lets say 98 Z28 is get a nitrous tune and it will make 400RWHP? Sure......LOL! -P.
So youre saying an LS1 motor ISNT 350 CID??? Wow news to me... And when did I ever say that on that GT I would be using STOCK heads???? Not once. Aftermarket 2v heads will outflow ANY 4.6 4v head, period. And If im adding correctly.....your car would only make 250 rwhp with out the bottle. Correct? How would that be MORE powerful than a 4.6 with aftermarket heads,cams, intake, and s/c? Even with your nitrous youd be lookin at taillights gettin smaller before your very eyes. And it seems pretty obvious you need nitrous to make your power. I wonder what that gt would do with a 150 shot? Make 650hp? -P.
Honestly...are you that dumb? I made 393rwhp on MOTOR alone. I made 500.3rwhp on the nitrous. WTF are you talking about? And yes, it is 346ci!
Dude youre so full of sh!t your eyes must be brown, sh!t brown. So a STOCK LS1 makes almost 400 hp???Bullsh!t. And that 346.89 (I believe) is based on the chevy 350 block. heres your exact words -It's NOT a 350...my car makes almost 400rwhp on STOCK heads, factory stock, never removed/touched. This is on a 150 DRY nitrous tune on the STOCK fuel system. Im actually amazed that a BONE STOCK LS1 makes 400rwhp.... Wow so all you would have to do to a lets say 98 Z28 is get a nitrous tune and it will make 400RWHP? Sure......LOL! -P.
let me translate for 98ls1: "its not a 350" = its a 346 "400rwhp on stock heads, factory stock, blah blah" = ON MOTOR, he makes 393rwhp "this is on a 150 dry nitrous tune" = theres no bloody fu(king nitrous, its just TUNED for a shot (which happens to make 500rwhp WITH the laughing gas) "stock fuel system" = stock fuel system
sry, but i just had to get 98's back on this one
_____________________________
05 gt: 12.54 @ 324rwhp/337rwtq Goodies on the way.
PR Manager for Automotive Dezignz MECP Installer and Mobile Product Specialist Mechanical/Manufacturing Engineer.
Printable Version
RE: N/A big block vs. a blown small block; which is bet... - 
. Hell my N/A 85 smokes 98 z's no problem. But then again I smoke Cobras no problem either. 
Add a few bolt on an LS1. Those thing come alive. I need to get me another. Insureance is to high! Damn it! 
