I dont think he ment "big block" like a 454 or somehting. I think he was refering to "big block" as the bigger block.. 5.7>4.6 hence bigger block.. does that make any sense what so ever??
Look at it this way....The LS1 engine weighs less develops more power and has better gas milage than any stock GT motor even till this very day.
Lets look at the 7.0L 500hp LS7 engine found in the Z06 and the 5.4L 500hp engine found in the Shelby. Which one would you wanna have? The LS7 is lighter and has better fuel econmy. Even though you could change a pulley on the shelby the LS7 has more potential because it's pushing the same power N/A.
Let me tell exactly why camaros STOCK were faster than mustang GT's STOCK...........money. In 98 I was lookin at buying a new car, and just for kicks and giggles I comparison shopped the 98 z28 to a 98 cobra and 98 GT. The Z28 with the trim I wanted was around 25K before tax and all that crap. THe cobra was around 22, and the GT around 18. So as you can see, you get what you pay for. But to me it still works out that the mustang is overall BETTER, because I couldve bought a fully loaded GT s/c it, got some badass heads and cams, worked the exhaust, maybe even some gears, and the GT wouldve still cost LESS than the z28, and it wouldve blown the doors right off of that chevy. -P. PS: The 2008 GT will cost just as much as that 1998 Z28 did.
I would have bought the Z28. No need for a blower. A heads and cam package would smoke your supercharged GT.
P.S If it will cost as much why is it still slower?
Let me tell exactly why camaros STOCK were faster than mustang GT's STOCK...........money. In 98 I was lookin at buying a new car, and just for kicks and giggles I comparison shopped the 98 z28 to a 98 cobra and 98 GT. The Z28 with the trim I wanted was around 25K before tax and all that crap. THe cobra was around 22, and the GT around 18. So as you can see, you get what you pay for. But to me it still works out that the mustang is overall BETTER, because I couldve bought a fully loaded GT s/c it, got some badass heads and cams, worked the exhaust, maybe even some gears, and the GT wouldve still cost LESS than the z28, and it wouldve blown the doors right off of that chevy. -P. PS: The 2008 GT will cost just as much as that 1998 Z28 did.
You were getting a VERY easy to mod and adaptible motor with the $25k on a new Z, which is expensive to me. I think in '02 they were going for $25k and less...brand new.
The great "drag racer" started it. Which is hard to believe. He even thinks a Mod motor w/FI weighs less than a pushrod v8. Go figure. I guess he doesn't actually have to work on his car, he just drives it.
The great "drag racer" started it. Which is hard to believe. He even thinks a Mod motor w/FI weighs less than a pushrod v8. Go figure. I guess he doesn't actually have to work on his car, he just drives it.
What other motor is the 4.6 DOHC Eaton powered motor in? Or the GT500 motor? Is that in other cars? I know the Lightning has a variance of the 5.4L, but hell, the Lightning ain't no work truck.
anything 4.6 or 5.4 in ford's lineup came from a mod motor that was intended for a fwd transportation car. ANYTHING and EVERYTHING. it's where the mod motors origins are. anything with a 4.6 or 5.4 was an afterthought, and it was not designed from the ground up for performance like an ls1 motor was. 2v, 3v, 4v, blower or not, they are all an afterthought or a modification of the original. mod motors are meant to have swappable parts and to be cheap as hell to build in a factory, not to have great performance.
I've read more than one article about the origins and development of the LSx, they always talk about developing the ls1 and c5 together, and they always give the engineering goals they had: lighter motor, certain HP/c.i. goals, size goals, etc.
totally different philosophy between the two motors when they were engineered.
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So the mod motor was built as a cheap motor for Ford to slap in every vehicle they could, and they chose the Mustang/Cobra lineup as well as others. The LS motor was built for performance, but happened to fit into every single vehicle GM offers...gets better gas mileage too....where did they go wrong? Same results, different solutions.
Have any of you ever heard of the ideal gas equation: P1*V1=P2*V2?
I'm guessing no, but if needed, I can explain it and it'll make you look at blown motors an entirely different way.
14psi * 1cubic foot of volume = 1psi * 14cubic feet of volume. however, when it comes to advanced thermodynamics and fluid flow of a gas-burning engine, other factors like burn efficiency, reynolds number, density, viscosity, etc come into play.
in theory, if a motor makes 200hp NA, boosting it one bar (14.7psi, which is the air pressure at sea level) would yield a doubling of hp to 400. we all know this does not happen in real life per se.
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Let me tell exactly why camaros STOCK were faster than mustang GT's STOCK...........money. In 98 I was lookin at buying a new car, and just for kicks and giggles I comparison shopped the 98 z28 to a 98 cobra and 98 GT. The Z28 with the trim I wanted was around 25K before tax and all that crap. THe cobra was around 22, and the GT around 18. So as you can see, you get what you pay for. But to me it still works out that the mustang is overall BETTER, because I couldve bought a fully loaded GT s/c it, got some badass heads and cams, worked the exhaust, maybe even some gears, and the GT wouldve still cost LESS than the z28, and it wouldve blown the doors right off of that chevy. -P. PS: The 2008 GT will cost just as much as that 1998 Z28 did.
You were getting a VERY easy to mod and adaptible motor with the $25k on a new Z, which is expensive to me. I think in '02 they were going for $25k and less...brand new.
Just browse that link...the cheapest GT they have is over $28k....one is $35k!
Don't forget, the '03 Cobra's are still comparible in performance, yet cost $10k more than an '02 Z28.
and with that 10k u saved u could kill a cobra
< Message edited by Sidewayz6.0 -- 6/30/2006 9:53:10 AM >
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14psi * 1cubic foot of volume = 1psi * 14cubic feet of volume. however, when it comes to advanced thermodynamics and fluid flow of a gas-burning engine, other factors like burn efficiency, reynolds number, density, viscosity, etc come into play.
in theory, if a motor makes 200hp NA, boosting it one bar (14.7psi, which is the air pressure at sea level) would yield a doubling of hp to 400. we all know this does not happen in real life per se.
The only thing basically lacking in that theory is intake temp....which is typically cool considering most guys I see run ice on the intake to get better numbers. I don't know why they're so worried about it, but they do.
14psi * 1cubic foot of volume = 1psi * 14cubic feet of volume. however, when it comes to advanced thermodynamics and fluid flow of a gas-burning engine, other factors like burn efficiency, reynolds number, density, viscosity, etc come into play.
in theory, if a motor makes 200hp NA, boosting it one bar (14.7psi, which is the air pressure at sea level) would yield a doubling of hp to 400. we all know this does not happen in real life per se.
The only thing basically lacking in that theory is intake temp....which is typically cool considering most guys I see run ice on the intake to get better numbers. I don't know why they're so worried about it, but they do.
ice on the intake has always baffled me as well. imagine looking down a hollow 4in tube. the volume in there is substantial, but only the very edges of the tube even touch that air. only like 5% of the air even touches the walls, and when its moving really fast, how much do you think its gonna cool down? much less the average temp of the total volume of air?
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05 gt: 12.54 @ 324rwhp/337rwtq Goodies on the way.
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when you are measuring a 1/4 of a mile run in thousandths of a second, any little thing can make a difference.
also the ideal gas law doesn't apply here. if you were comparing two balloons, ok, but a motor is much more complicated and the airflow is not perfectly matched to the displacement of the motor. and the ideal gas law only approximates a system which has no heat or work going in or out at high temperature and low pressure.
< Message edited by redass02gt -- 6/29/2006 6:17:32 PM >
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Pitchforks and torches are the answers to all of our nation's problems. KOBE4MVP
when you are measuring a 1/4 of a mile run in thousandths of a second, any little thing can make a difference.
true, but while icing the intake can make .001sec diff, a perfect launch can make .300 diff over even a good launch, and powershifting can make .250 diff over regular shifting. i always found it funny when people would wry bout the little things before the big things...like taking out the spare and passenger seat and interior carpet, but have a full tank of gas...or have traction problems but still buy every carbon fiber part on the market, but not good tires.
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05 gt: 12.54 @ 324rwhp/337rwtq Goodies on the way.
PR Manager for Automotive Dezignz MECP Installer and Mobile Product Specialist Mechanical/Manufacturing Engineer.
i was just thinking how nice its been to not have the lsx vs. mod motor shizz going on. i guess that is what i get for thinking.
I guess Birdie was gettin bored.....and decided to bang on the hornets' nest a few times for fun
Don't know what this whole post was supposed to accomplish..........but in the end, it won't accomplish much. LSX guys will stay LSX guys and mod Ford guys will stay mod Ford guys. All performance minded mustang guys (at least.....most of them I hope) know what their up against when it comes to GM's LS series of engines. So unless one is a total noob to this discussion.....they won't learn much here.
when you are measuring a 1/4 of a mile run in thousandths of a second, any little thing can make a difference.
true, but while icing the intake can make .001sec diff, a perfect launch can make .300 diff over even a good launch, and powershifting can make .250 diff over regular shifting. i always found it funny when people would wry bout the little things before the big things...like taking out the spare and passenger seat and interior carpet, but have a full tank of gas...or have traction problems but still buy every carbon fiber part on the market, but not good tires.
hey, I never claimed to know why people are stupid, just why they ice the intake...
_____________________________
Pitchforks and torches are the answers to all of our nation's problems. KOBE4MVP
Why did you have to say that? Have you ever had a GM block? Technically the engines found in F-bodys and Vettes are small blocks. They are not "big blocks" as you call them. I will guarantee that the 5.7L engine in my Z06 wieghs less than the 4.6L one in my GT. Dissplacement doesn't always mean more wieght. Why would the GM guys be whinners? They have been winning the street races for decades now. Heres a prediction for you a 1998 stock camaro will still be faster than a 2008 stock Mustang GT. That means that even after 10 years the GT still comes in 2nd place. So according to my assumptions the GM guys have something to be proud of for a long time.
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Ford will get the hint and go for larger dissplacement soner or later. The GM blocks are so simple to modify is ridiculous.
To be quite honest this entire argument is subjective. You guys mention nitrous and forced induction like the LSX engines can't do the same. Stock for stock mod for mod, you will not keep up with a LSX engine with equal drivers.
A few things here. First, I said it because there are several people here who seem to think that Ford is somehow behind in technology by running a 5.4 blown motor in the GT500 vs, a larger, built n/a powerplant. That was one of my points. Comments like "Ford needs a blower to keep up with chevy" is rediculous. Ford could have developed a n/a big block, similarly used in the Z06, but they chose to go the blower route.
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I will guarantee that the 5.7L engine in my Z06 wieghs less than the 4.6L one in my GT.
I mean keeping all things equal. ie., iron block to iron block, aluminum to aluminum.
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Heres a prediction for you a 1998 stock camaro will still be faster than a 2008 stock Mustang GT.
As in it will have more hp? (As it should if it has more cubes)
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Why would the GM guys be whinners? They have been winning the street races for decades now. Heres a prediction for you a 1998 stock camaro will still be faster than a 2008 stock Mustang GT. That means that even after 10 years the GT still comes in 2nd place.
With more cubes, sure, and that's what im talking about. GM owners seem to have a short memory when it comes to cubic inches.
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The GM blocks are so simple to modify is ridiculous.
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RE: N/A big block vs. a blown small block; which is bet... - 
