I still say your going to blow the motor making 600 to the tire on the stock shortblock. I know that "so and so" has done/does do it, but MM&FF also made 550+ on a stock shortblock 4.6L 2v. But you won't see me turning up my boost to 14 lbs anytime soon :)
Well...me and about 3 million others have done the same thing. I made 500 on the stock fuel system and a dry shot....I don't see it hurting the car with a wet shot, a fuel system, and more hp. Hell, my car was still running rich on the gas.....weird, I know.
A cam'ed LS7 is as unstreetable as my car.....only it makes 500+rwhp on motor :).
Who can't afford a Vette? Honestly. You guys act like Camaro's/Vettes are unreachable to the average people.
Would it sell more to have a v6 Vette....if I can even manage to say that, yes, it would. But then, who'd actually want a Vette. I couldn't imagine having a v8 Stang, since you see 10 v6's for every mile you drive. When I see a Mustang it's usually a toss up on weather it's a v6 or v8.
As far as who'd pay $90k for a Vette...a smart man would. Considering they're saving $60+k over a lesser performing, blown, mid-engine, Ford GT.
When Porsch releases a 911 Carrera w/ 4 seats and a 4cyl to make it affordable to the masses then we can talk about Corvette makeovers.................
actually porsch made an entry level car. it was the 914. i don't know specs, and i don't really give a SH!T about 'em. what everyone is saying is GM needs to drop a few of the crappy selling cars from their lineup, and bring back an affordable sports car with an entry and performance level engine. and they need to do something called quality control. they actually had a thing going with the GTO, just no v6. if they had done that and called it the Le Mans like back in the day, it would be selling like crazy, instead of on a respirator. the f-bodies were fast, but there is a very good reason they are taking a dirt-nap, they didn't sell. you could get a Mustang GT well-equipped for the price of a similarly equipped v6 f-body. and it is a more reliable car.
You are so full of it MATTHOCKEY!! I am gonna make it a point to follow you all over this site and let ppl know just who you are. You are not wanted or needed here. BUGGER OFF!!
< Message edited by 03YellowPony -- 7/4/2006 12:06:08 AM >
Posts: 95
Joined: 6/15/2006 From: Braselton, GA Status: offline
quote:
ORIGINAL: 98LS1
quote:
ORIGINAL: 2000GT4.6 Triple post woot!!!
I still say your going to blow the motor making 600 to the tire on the stock shortblock. I know that "so and so" has done/does do it, but MM&FF also made 550+ on a stock shortblock 4.6L 2v. But you won't see me turning up my boost to 14 lbs anytime soon :)
Well...me and about 3 million others have done the same thing. I made 500 on the stock fuel system and a dry shot....I don't see it hurting the car with a wet shot, a fuel system, and more hp. Hell, my car was still running rich on the gas.....weird, I know.
A cam'ed LS7 is as unstreetable as my car.....only it makes 500+rwhp on motor :).
Who can't afford a Vette? Honestly. You guys act like Camaro's/Vettes are unreachable to the average people.
Would it sell more to have a v6 Vette....if I can even manage to say that, yes, it would. But then, who'd actually want a Vette. I couldn't imagine having a v8 Stang, since you see 10 v6's for every mile you drive. When I see a Mustang it's usually a toss up on weather it's a v6 or v8.
As far as who'd pay $90k for a Vette...a smart man would. Considering they're saving $60+k over a lesser performing, blown, mid-engine, Ford GT.
the original vette was an i6. and people bought them.
_____________________________
1993 GT with 351W and Kenne Bell blower. R.I.P. 2003 V6 5-Speed With 4.3 SSM Forged Stroker, MAC Shorties, Pypes Offroad X-Pipe And SLP Loudmouth Cat-Back. I Want Boost.
Team MF Member #2046 Posts: 12516
Joined: 1/22/2004 From: United States Status: offline
I can tell you one thing for 100 percent sure, after being in the automotive buisness for awhile, and seeing how things work in the buisness and how they make money. Every vette that rolls off the line costs GM money. Hell, every car they make, including econobox 4cyl, are costing them money.
On the changes thing, it is not the general concept that changes, but the tooling required to make the car. Look at the camry, how long did that mid 90s bodystyle last? Forever. And they made a entire company off the car. This is simply because the longer you make the exact same product, the more inovation you can come up with to make it cheaper and faster, and the more streamlined the production process is, so you make more money.
It's not a matter of what the vette costs the consumer. Its the fact that it is such a low volume car. This is why the other cars in the performance range of the vette cost so much more. Because they are low volume cars, and the suppliers that make them refuse to (because they can't afford it) loose money on the cars. GM however is so large that for the time being they can afford to loose money.
You need to make ALOT of cars of the same exact type to make money. This is why the escape/tribute line was making money, but the mariner line was not. They sold the CRAP out of escape/tribute (200+ thousand a year minmum on the escape alone). We make soo many of them, and got so good at it, it cost us virtually nothing to produce. Then, Ford steps in with the mariner line, with an extremely complicated applique (fake wood) plastic panel, and all the money goes out the door.
I am not saying that if the vette was making money GM would be making money. Nor am I saying that the vette is the reason GM is in trouble, far from it. All I am saying is that it would make good buisness since, and it would guarentee that the vette will always be around (well so long as we are still allowed to even produce performance cars).
You might say that the vette is invicincible, but I bet more than a few people would have said the same thing about the camaro/firebird just a few years ago.
BTW, there can be absoluty no arguement that the imports are doing a better job of producing, marketing, and selling cars than the domestic car companys. This is not a opinion, its just simple fact.
Edit: BTW, how can you say nobody would buy a 25K~ V6 vette? They would sell so fast it would make your head spin. Just like the V6 mustang. Do you have any idea how fast the Mustang would be gone if they could not sell the V6 anymore?
< Message edited by 2000GT4.6 -- 7/4/2006 12:27:46 AM >
I will admit the last few years has'nt been in GM's favor. In the mid 90's almost every police dept. in the country used Impala's/ Caprice's now look. GM decided to shrink the Impala and turn it into a 6cyl. Now the Ford Crown Vic's dominate the Police/Govt fleets as well as the taxi cab company fleets.
Also I used to work for a limo company in the mid 90's and asked what ever happen to the Caddy Fleetwood limo's and sedans. Their response was Cadillac turned their full sized sedans into front wheel drive and the limo industry went the way of the Lincoln.
So I do agree that GM needs to find something and stick with it.
Even on the side of Ford, everybody has to stick with a car and if they abandon it and then years later try to reintroduce the line it just makes it that much harder for the product to sell (its a gamble). remember the Thunderbird. Although I think the high asking price had alot to do with its demise. I just hope this does'nt happen to the Camaro. But on the bright side unit sales were up last year maybe it had to do with the redesign of the Vette.
< Message edited by C6 VETTE -- 7/4/2006 12:47:00 AM >
_____________________________
2006 Corvette coupe/Corsa sport exhaust w/ mid-pipe 1999 Mustang GT/stock
Team MF Member #2046 Posts: 12516
Joined: 1/22/2004 From: United States Status: offline
Well, regarless it probably won't happen, and even if it did it won't fix GM.
GM/Ford/Chryslter have a long way to go if they want to compete with the imports on even ground. They are loosing market share every year, and for the most part not making money.
I can tell you that from dealing with Ford it is not looking good. There are ALOT of morons in the production area that seem to think they can just waste money and stick the public with the bill, and still make a profit. And that isn't gonna happen anymore.
Posts: 95
Joined: 6/15/2006 From: Braselton, GA Status: offline
quote:
ORIGINAL: C6 VETTE
I will admit the last few years has'nt been in GM's favor. In the mid 90's almost every police dept. in the country used Impala's/ Caprice's now look. GM decided to shrink the Impala and turn it into a 6cyl. Now the Ford Crown Vic's dominate the Police/Govt fleets as well as the taxi cab company fleets.
Also I used to work for a limo company in the mid 90's and asked what ever happen to the Caddy Fleetwood limo's and sedans. Their response was Cadillac turned their full sized sedans into front wheel drive and the limo industry went the way of the Lincoln.
So I do agree that GM needs to find something and stick with it.
Even on the side of Ford, everybody has to stick with a car and if they abandon it and then years later try to reintroduce the line it just makes it that much harder for the product to sell (its a gamble). remember the Thunderbird. Although I think the high asking price had alot to do with its demise. I just hope this does'nt happen to the Camaro. But on the bright side unit sales were up last year maybe it had to do with the redesign of the Vette.
you are right there. about the t-bird. but the cougar was changed to a FWD coupe and i don't see them anywhere either. i think the new vette might promote more vette sales but GM has to get a real sports coupe, they go from the cavabalt to the solstice/sky straight to the 60k+ vette. they need something in the middle, something that starts out at around 20k and is able to go to 40k. they need to use the stang as an example, base v6 20-25k, v8 option 22-27k, kickass model 26-33k, and maybe a specialty. i honestly don't see it happening.
_____________________________
1993 GT with 351W and Kenne Bell blower. R.I.P. 2003 V6 5-Speed With 4.3 SSM Forged Stroker, MAC Shorties, Pypes Offroad X-Pipe And SLP Loudmouth Cat-Back. I Want Boost.
I will admit the last few years has'nt been in GM's favor. In the mid 90's almost every police dept. in the country used Impala's/ Caprice's now look. GM decided to shrink the Impala and turn it into a 6cyl. Now the Ford Crown Vic's dominate the Police/Govt fleets as well as the taxi cab company fleets.
Also I used to work for a limo company in the mid 90's and asked what ever happen to the Caddy Fleetwood limo's and sedans. Their response was Cadillac turned their full sized sedans into front wheel drive and the limo industry went the way of the Lincoln.
So I do agree that GM needs to find something and stick with it.
Even on the side of Ford, everybody has to stick with a car and if they abandon it and then years later try to reintroduce the line it just makes it that much harder for the product to sell (its a gamble). remember the Thunderbird. Although I think the high asking price had alot to do with its demise. I just hope this does'nt happen to the Camaro. But on the bright side unit sales were up last year maybe it had to do with the redesign of the Vette.
you are right there. about the t-bird. but the cougar was changed to a FWD coupe and i don't see them anywhere either. i think the new vette might promote more vette sales but GM has to get a real sports coupe, they go from the cavabalt to the solstice/sky straight to the 60k+ vette. they need something in the middle, something that starts out at around 20k and is able to go to 40k. they need to use the stang as an example, base v6 20-25k, v8 option 22-27k, kickass model 26-33k, and maybe a specialty. i honestly don't see it happening.
You mean like your 272RWHP V6 with a bent rod? MATTHOCKEY.
Team MF Member #2046 Posts: 12516
Joined: 1/22/2004 From: United States Status: offline
quote:
ORIGINAL: pyromania
quote:
ORIGINAL: C6 VETTE
I will admit the last few years has'nt been in GM's favor. In the mid 90's almost every police dept. in the country used Impala's/ Caprice's now look. GM decided to shrink the Impala and turn it into a 6cyl. Now the Ford Crown Vic's dominate the Police/Govt fleets as well as the taxi cab company fleets.
Also I used to work for a limo company in the mid 90's and asked what ever happen to the Caddy Fleetwood limo's and sedans. Their response was Cadillac turned their full sized sedans into front wheel drive and the limo industry went the way of the Lincoln.
So I do agree that GM needs to find something and stick with it.
Even on the side of Ford, everybody has to stick with a car and if they abandon it and then years later try to reintroduce the line it just makes it that much harder for the product to sell (its a gamble). remember the Thunderbird. Although I think the high asking price had alot to do with its demise. I just hope this does'nt happen to the Camaro. But on the bright side unit sales were up last year maybe it had to do with the redesign of the Vette.
you are right there. about the t-bird. but the cougar was changed to a FWD coupe and i don't see them anywhere either. i think the new vette might promote more vette sales but GM has to get a real sports coupe, they go from the cavabalt to the solstice/sky straight to the 60k+ vette. they need something in the middle, something that starts out at around 20k and is able to go to 40k. they need to use the stang as an example, base v6 20-25k, v8 option 22-27k, kickass model 26-33k, and maybe a specialty. i honestly don't see it happening.
+1 regardless of who you are.
Except the not seeing it happening thing. They tried with the GTO, only no base models. I think they will do the base/mid/high level models with the new camaro if it ever comes out, just to keep up with ford if nothing else.
Posts: 95
Joined: 6/15/2006 From: Braselton, GA Status: offline
quote:
ORIGINAL: 2000GT4.6
quote:
ORIGINAL: pyromania
quote:
ORIGINAL: C6 VETTE
I will admit the last few years has'nt been in GM's favor. In the mid 90's almost every police dept. in the country used Impala's/ Caprice's now look. GM decided to shrink the Impala and turn it into a 6cyl. Now the Ford Crown Vic's dominate the Police/Govt fleets as well as the taxi cab company fleets.
Also I used to work for a limo company in the mid 90's and asked what ever happen to the Caddy Fleetwood limo's and sedans. Their response was Cadillac turned their full sized sedans into front wheel drive and the limo industry went the way of the Lincoln.
So I do agree that GM needs to find something and stick with it.
Even on the side of Ford, everybody has to stick with a car and if they abandon it and then years later try to reintroduce the line it just makes it that much harder for the product to sell (its a gamble). remember the Thunderbird. Although I think the high asking price had alot to do with its demise. I just hope this does'nt happen to the Camaro. But on the bright side unit sales were up last year maybe it had to do with the redesign of the Vette.
you are right there. about the t-bird. but the cougar was changed to a FWD coupe and i don't see them anywhere either. i think the new vette might promote more vette sales but GM has to get a real sports coupe, they go from the cavabalt to the solstice/sky straight to the 60k+ vette. they need something in the middle, something that starts out at around 20k and is able to go to 40k. they need to use the stang as an example, base v6 20-25k, v8 option 22-27k, kickass model 26-33k, and maybe a specialty. i honestly don't see it happening.
+1 regardless of who you are.
Except the not seeing it happening thing. They tried with the GTO, only no base models. I think they will do the base/mid/high level models with the new camaro if it ever comes out, just to keep up with ford if nothing else.
GM had it with the GTO/Monaro. they had something going. don't know what, but no base v6 killed that car
_____________________________
1993 GT with 351W and Kenne Bell blower. R.I.P. 2003 V6 5-Speed With 4.3 SSM Forged Stroker, MAC Shorties, Pypes Offroad X-Pipe And SLP Loudmouth Cat-Back. I Want Boost.
I will admit the last few years has'nt been in GM's favor. In the mid 90's almost every police dept. in the country used Impala's/ Caprice's now look. GM decided to shrink the Impala and turn it into a 6cyl. Now the Ford Crown Vic's dominate the Police/Govt fleets as well as the taxi cab company fleets.
Also I used to work for a limo company in the mid 90's and asked what ever happen to the Caddy Fleetwood limo's and sedans. Their response was Cadillac turned their full sized sedans into front wheel drive and the limo industry went the way of the Lincoln.
So I do agree that GM needs to find something and stick with it.
Even on the side of Ford, everybody has to stick with a car and if they abandon it and then years later try to reintroduce the line it just makes it that much harder for the product to sell (its a gamble). remember the Thunderbird. Although I think the high asking price had alot to do with its demise. I just hope this does'nt happen to the Camaro. But on the bright side unit sales were up last year maybe it had to do with the redesign of the Vette.
you are right there. about the t-bird. but the cougar was changed to a FWD coupe and i don't see them anywhere either. i think the new vette might promote more vette sales but GM has to get a real sports coupe, they go from the cavabalt to the solstice/sky straight to the 60k+ vette. they need something in the middle, something that starts out at around 20k and is able to go to 40k. they need to use the stang as an example, base v6 20-25k, v8 option 22-27k, kickass model 26-33k, and maybe a specialty. i honestly don't see it happening.
It's mind boggling? The Camaro was the perfect car to offer all that and they pulled the plug. Perhaps the key would have been for GM to offer a base V6 for the same entry price as the V6 Stang. But remeber, ppl looking for a sixer arent to interested in power, it's more of comfort with a sporty feel and the Camaro was a difficult car to get in and out of if your a middle aged consumer. I can see asking for a little extra for a Z28 compared to a GT since the performance was definately in the favor of the Z28 (post 1993) but I guess that mentality also played a role in the f-body's demise, It's truly sad.
_____________________________
2006 Corvette coupe/Corsa sport exhaust w/ mid-pipe 1999 Mustang GT/stock
Team MF Member #2046 Posts: 12516
Joined: 1/22/2004 From: United States Status: offline
Build quality is what killed the F bodys. Even my buddies with like 30K on it rattles and shakes. Honestly, the mustang build qualty and fit and finish are not that great compared to alot of cars in the price range, but its worlds above the Fbody cars.
The sales were slumping, and GM killed the car. They should have just done a redesign and come out with a more comfortable/better looking/better quailty car and sold the hell out of them again.
Posts: 95
Joined: 6/15/2006 From: Braselton, GA Status: offline
quote:
ORIGINAL: C6 VETTE
quote:
ORIGINAL: pyromania
quote:
ORIGINAL: C6 VETTE
Even on the side of Ford, everybody has to stick with a car and if they abandon it and then years later try to reintroduce the line it just makes it that much harder for the product to sell (its a gamble). remember the Thunderbird. Although I think the high asking price had alot to do with its demise. I just hope this does'nt happen to the Camaro. But on the bright side unit sales were up last year maybe it had to do with the redesign of the Vette.
you are right there. about the t-bird. but the cougar was changed to a FWD coupe and i don't see them anywhere either. i think the new vette might promote more vette sales but GM has to get a real sports coupe, they go from the cavabalt to the solstice/sky straight to the 60k+ vette. they need something in the middle, something that starts out at around 20k and is able to go to 40k. they need to use the stang as an example, base v6 20-25k, v8 option 22-27k, kickass model 26-33k, and maybe a specialty. i honestly don't see it happening.
It's mind boggling? The Camaro was the perfect car to offer all that and they pulled the plug. Perhaps the key would have been for GM to offer a base V6 for the same entry price as the V6 Stang. But remeber, ppl looking for a sixer arent to interested in power, it's more of comfort with a sporty feel and the Camaro was a difficult car to get in and out of if your a middle aged consumer. I can see asking for a little extra for a Z28 compared to a GT since the performance was definately in the favor of the Z28 (post 1993) but I guess that mentality also played a role in the f-body's demise, It's truly sad.
my freind looked at a TA once. it was impossible for anyone over 5'11'' to sit in that backseat, i know, i'm 5'11''. didn't they have a 5.0 in the camaros at one point. that would have saved the f-bodies, it would have been perfect for the mid-level. if it had around 240-260 hp, and been the same price as the GTs, GM might not be in trouble.
_____________________________
1993 GT with 351W and Kenne Bell blower. R.I.P. 2003 V6 5-Speed With 4.3 SSM Forged Stroker, MAC Shorties, Pypes Offroad X-Pipe And SLP Loudmouth Cat-Back. I Want Boost.
Team MF Member #2046 Posts: 12516
Joined: 1/22/2004 From: United States Status: offline
Regardless of what they did with the camaro/vette GM would still be ****ed.
Its not a matter of one or even 5 different car lines. Its a matter of overal buisness philosophy and how they impliment changes. They are just too slow to react and have to many money pits in their way of manufacture.
They are slowly reasliing this, and everyone in automotive is copying the "toyota way". They will survive if they pull it off, they will not if they don't.
I will admit the last few years has'nt been in GM's favor. In the mid 90's almost every police dept. in the country used Impala's/ Caprice's now look. GM decided to shrink the Impala and turn it into a 6cyl. Now the Ford Crown Vic's dominate the Police/Govt fleets as well as the taxi cab company fleets.
Also I used to work for a limo company in the mid 90's and asked what ever happen to the Caddy Fleetwood limo's and sedans. Their response was Cadillac turned their full sized sedans into front wheel drive and the limo industry went the way of the Lincoln.
So I do agree that GM needs to find something and stick with it.
Even on the side of Ford, everybody has to stick with a car and if they abandon it and then years later try to reintroduce the line it just makes it that much harder for the product to sell (its a gamble). remember the Thunderbird. Although I think the high asking price had alot to do with its demise. I just hope this does'nt happen to the Camaro. But on the bright side unit sales were up last year maybe it had to do with the redesign of the Vette.
you are right there. about the t-bird. but the cougar was changed to a FWD coupe and i don't see them anywhere either. i think the new vette might promote more vette sales but GM has to get a real sports coupe, they go from the cavabalt to the solstice/sky straight to the 60k+ vette. they need something in the middle, something that starts out at around 20k and is able to go to 40k. they need to use the stang as an example, base v6 20-25k, v8 option 22-27k, kickass model 26-33k, and maybe a specialty. i honestly don't see it happening.
+1 regardless of who you are.
Except the not seeing it happening thing. They tried with the GTO, only no base models. I think they will do the base/mid/high level models with the new camaro if it ever comes out, just to keep up with ford if nothing else.
GM had it with the GTO/Monaro. they had something going. don't know what, but no base v6 killed that car
I think this car was doomed from the start. Everybody's squakking more about the looks more than the price. Mid $30's is'nt bad for the roomy interior , a fairly spacious back seat and a powerful engine with impressive performance numbers. If this car was a looker it might have sold. And instead of saving money by having a six cyl option, they give you a GS 6. (A completely different car) You want to see a car thats worthless to a dead market it's the GS6
_____________________________
2006 Corvette coupe/Corsa sport exhaust w/ mid-pipe 1999 Mustang GT/stock
Printable Version
RE: N/A big block vs. a blown small block; which is bet... - 
....dammit!...it will still make more power than a mustang gt....
