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Your Warranty!


  

bl1nk -> Your Warranty! (6/19/2006 12:03:09 AM)

Hopefully this will help some people out on their warranty questions, and maybe stop the mass of warranty questions every day.

First Ill post a link to a summary of the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act of 1975, so if you would like to read it you can find it here. I will also post the entire US Federal Code at the end of the thread.

This is what the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act is.

On January 4, 1975, President Ford signed into law the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act, Title 1, 101-112, 15 U.S.C. 2301 et seq. This act, effective July 4, 1975, is designed to "improve the adequacy of information available to consumers, prevent deception, and improve competition in the marketing of consumer products. . . ." The Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act applies only to consumer products, which are defined as "any tangible personal property which is distributed in commerce and which is normally used for personal, family, or household purposes (including any such property intended to be attached to or installed in any real property without regard to whether it is so attached or installed)." Under Section 103 of the Act, if a warrantor sells a consumer product costing more than $15 under written warranty, the writing must state the warranty in readily understandable language as determined by standards set forth by the Federal Trade Commission. There is, however, no requirement that a warranty be given nor that any product be warranted for any length of time. Thus the Act only requires that when there is a written warranty, the warrantor clearly disclose the nature of his warranty obligation prior to the sale of the product. The consumer may then compare warranty protection, thus shopping for the "best buy." To further protect the consumer from deception, the Act requires that any written warranty must be labeled as either a "full" or a "limited" warranty. Only warranties that meet the standards of the Act may be labeled as "full." One of the most important provisions of the Act prohibits a warrantor from disclaiming or modifying any implied warranty whenever any written warranty is given or service contract entered into. Implied warranties may, however, be limited in duration if the limitation is reasonable, conscionable, and set forth in clear and unmistakable language prominently displayed on the face of the warranty. A consumer damaged by breach of warranty, or noncompliance with the act, may sue in either state or federal district court. Access to federal court, however, is severely limited by the Act's provision that no claim may be brought in federal court if: (a) The amount in controversy of any individual claim is less than $25,000; (b) the amount in controversy is less than the sum or value of $50,000 computed on the basis of all claims in the suit; or (c) a class action is brought, and the number of named plaintiffs is less than 100. In light of these requirements it is likely that most suits will be brought in state court. If the consumer prevails, he is awarded costs and attorneys' fees. Nothing in the Act invalidates any right or remedy available under state law, and most suits should proceed on claims based on both the Code and the Act.


This is why the MMW Act was created.

In order to improve the adequacy of information available to consumers, prevent deception, and improve competition in the marketing of consumer products, any warrantor warranting a consumer product to a consumer by means of a written warranty shall. . .fully and conspicuously disclose in simple and readily understood language the terms and conditions of such warranty. Such rules . . . require inclusion in the written warranty of any . . . exceptions and exclusions from the terms of the warranty.’ – Magnuson-Moss Warranty & Federal Trade Commission improvement Act. Section 2302(a)
This will try to convince you to have some security in your aftermarket parts.

The Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act: Protecting tweakers, tuners, and other users of aftermarket equipment.

You want to upgrade your vehicle with aftermarket equipment, but you’re worried about putting the vehicle’s warranty at risk. It’s no wonder, how many times have you heard some one at a dealership say that installing aftermarket equipment automatically voids the warranty? This common misconception has been repeated often enough to be widely believed –though it is completely false.

Fact: Dealers don’t like warranty work, because it pays less than normal repair work. By promoting the myth that aftermarket equipment automatically voids warranties, some dealers avoid such low-paying work. Instead, they attempt to charge customers the prime service rate for work which is rightfully done under warranty.

Most vehicle owners are not aware they are protected by federal law: the Magnuson-Moss Warranty – Federal Trade Commission Improvement Act of 1975. Under the MMW Act, aftermarket equipment which improves performance does not void a vehicle manufacturer’s original warranty, unless the warranty clearly and conspicuously states that aftermarket equipment voids the warranty (ours does not). Most states have warranty statutes, as well. Which provide further protections for vehicle owners.

In other words, that means a dealer can’t wiggle out of his legal warranty obligation merely because you install aftermarket equipment. To find out if any aftermarket equipment automatically voids your vehicle’s warranty, check the owner’s manual. It will be under the sections titled "What is not covered". Your vehicle manufacturer is simply saying he does not cover the aftermarket products themselves. He is not saying that the products would void the vehicle warranty.

Suppose your modified vehicle needs repairs while still under warranty. Without analyzing the true cause of the problem, the dealer attempts to deny warranty coverage. He made his decision simply based on the fact that you’ve installed aftermarket equipment – a convenient way to dodge low-paying warranty work.

Fact: A dealer must prove – not just say – that aftermarket equipment caused the need for repairs before he can deny warranty coverage on that basis.

Point out to the dealer the provision of the MMW Act. Require that he explain to you how the aftermarket equipment caused the problem. If he can’t – or his explanation sounds questionable – it is your legal right to demand he comply with the warranty.

If you are being unfairly denied warranty coverage, there is recourse. The Federal Trade Commission, which administers the MMWAct, monitors compliance with warranty issues. Direct complaints to the FCT at (202) 326-3128.

These are direct quotes from US auto manufacturers.

DODGE MOTORS

“Certain changes that you might make to your truck do not, by themselves, void the warranties described in this booklet. Examples of some of these changes are: installing non-Chrysler parts, components, or equipment.” – 1997 Warranty Information supplement to Dodge

GENERAL MOTORS CORPORATION

“If a Chevrolet part fails due to a defect in material or workmanship not related to (on aftermarket products) or the labor to install it. Chevrolet would be responsible for covering the failed part.” – Chevrolet Customer Assistance Center

FORD MOTOR COMPANY

“Installation of a non-genuine Ford item does not, in and of itself, render warranty void.” – Ford Owner Relations Division



Almost everyone has heard that the mere installation and/or use of aftermarket parts will void a vehicle manufacturer's warranty. That claim appears to know no limitations and is heralded from coast to coast with no lack of certainty. In spite of having unbridled support, however, one basic pro


  

Remrats1234 -> RE: Your Warranty RIGHTS! (6/19/2006 4:38:18 AM)

yay i can modify my car without voiding warrenty


hogpowr -> RE: Your Warranty RIGHTS! (6/19/2006 7:21:47 AM)

i hope u cut and pasted that! lol


BLACK06GT4ME -> RE: Your Warranty RIGHTS! (6/19/2006 7:32:49 AM)

Send this to Ford dealers, they are the people you need to get to buy into this.


kcary -> RE: Your Warranty RIGHTS! (6/19/2006 8:22:34 AM)

Good luck with some of that. The whole must prove thing isn't exactly true. What they have to show in court is a study that can support that mod A has put undo stress on vehicle part B sometime in the past on some car. So, say your engine blows and all you have done to the car is a CAI. Well there have been studies that show a CAI puts more stress on an engine than a stock setup does. This is enough for Ford to prove their case in court for not covering your engine in warranty. My father is a warranty guy for ford. He totally disagrees with it, but he does have to follow it. Now, say you have a CAI and your engine blows and you remove the CAI before any service guys see it. They now have to prove that you were using a CAI. This is much harder to do and you would win the case most likely.


bl1nk -> RE: Your Warranty RIGHTS! (6/19/2006 9:01:37 AM)

Dont argue with me argue with the law, the entire Fedeal Code is pasted at the bottom of the post word for word.

If you dont believe me call the FTC or SEMA and ask for yourself, their numbers are (202)-326-3128 and (909)-396-0289 respectively. Everything I have researched and everyone I have talked to claims the dealership must provide a written explanation PROVING that your aftermarket part caused the deterioration or defect in the object being replaced. If they cant do this they are forced BY LAW to honor the warranty.


mhahnjr -> RE: Your Warranty RIGHTS! (6/19/2006 9:44:41 AM)

You are absolutely correct! The issue is what if the dealership doesn't, heaven forbid, follw the rules. Then you have to fight and most people can't afford enough legal representation to see it to fruition or just can't wait that long to get thier car repaired. I think that is what the issue is in most cases. Not that they are wrong or that Ford is right, it is just what it takes to get it resolved in a timely manner.

Well that is my 2 cents worth


Lurch -> RE: Your Warranty RIGHTS! (6/19/2006 9:48:27 AM)

I doubt anyone doesnt believe that this is the law. The problem is, and I have faced it in the past with a different vehicle, is that some of the worse service departments will just deny a warranty claim even when faced with the Moss Magnusson Act. Then what are you to do? Better Business bureau? Lawyer? Complain to Ford? BBB really has no teeth, atleast any time I have dealt with them.(all of two) I did not go the lawyer route myself, I contacted the manufacturer, in this case Dodge. A regional service rep looked into my problem and made the dealer do the repair under warranty. I guess what I am getting at is that if you get an a$$hole dealer, they can make it very hard on you in this situation. In my case, after the first problem I chose to drive a bit farther to a different service department and never had another issue.

Lurch


hawgman -> RE: Your Warranty RIGHTS! (6/19/2006 10:13:37 AM)

Why bother to even post that? The MMWA has been posted, copied, linked, and explained more times than this board has had "What's your age", "How much do you pay in insurance", "What's your monthly payment", "Which CAI is better", "Post your stripes", and "What size tire" threads combined. People still will ask because they won't use a search function and they are 100% sure their question is unique.


bl1nk -> RE: Your Warranty RIGHTS! (6/19/2006 11:39:27 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lurch

I doubt anyone doesnt believe that this is the law. The problem is, and I have faced it in the past with a different vehicle, is that some of the worse service departments will just deny a warranty claim even when faced with the Moss Magnusson Act. Then what are you to do? Better Business bureau? Lawyer? Complain to Ford? BBB really has no teeth, atleast any time I have dealt with them.(all of two) I did not go the lawyer route myself, I contacted the manufacturer, in this case Dodge. A regional service rep looked into my problem and made the dealer do the repair under warranty. I guess what I am getting at is that if you get an a$$hole dealer, they can make it very hard on you in this situation. In my case, after the first problem I chose to drive a bit farther to a different service department and never had another issue.

Lurch


Sometimes this is what it takes, but I can guarentee you if I paid the extra 3.5 grand for the exteneded warranty and they voided it simply because of some aftermarket parts I WILL be doing something about it. I can understand if the part is truly at fault, and I will accept it if it is. This post was by no means meant to convince people to smack their dealership for an unlawful lawsuit, it was meant to protect people and inform them that dealerships CAN and WILL try to scam them out of their warranty because of some parts. Also to let people know that the dealer must prove the part is at fault for them to void it. Im not trying to say that no matter what you do to your car the dealer has to fix it, obviously this is untrue. If your part is truly the cause then I believe you should pay for it, but if its not... I believe warranty should cover it. Just thought I would provide some info for everyone else to have steady ground to stand on when facing this problem with their dealership.


bl1nk -> RE: Your Warranty RIGHTS! (6/19/2006 11:41:04 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: hawgman

Why bother to even post that? The MMWA has been posted, copied, linked, and explained more times than this board has had "What's your age", "How much do you pay in insurance", "What's your monthly payment", "Which CAI is better", "Post your stripes", and "What size tire" threads combined. People still will ask because they won't use a search function and they are 100% sure their question is unique.


In hopes to provide a deep enough and detailed enough informational post that a moderator might consider making it a sticky so that we see less of these posts.


Agleon -> RE: Your Warranty RIGHTS! (6/19/2006 12:37:24 PM)

So will a muffler or suspension void warrenty?


bl1nk -> RE: Your Warranty RIGHTS! (6/19/2006 1:08:03 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Agleon

So will a muffler or suspension void warrenty?


Only if the muffler or the new suspension is the CAUSE of the problem with your car. Even then, it only voids a section of the warranty that it applies to, not the whole thing.


Tres Wright -> RE: Your Warranty RIGHTS! (6/19/2006 1:54:57 PM)

I just posted the following in another thread on this same subject, but it looks like this is a better place for it. The bottom line is while a mod CANNOT void your warranty, it CAN be used as a basis to reject a warranty repair claim:

===============


I read a good thread about this recently, it was explained that there is a consultant (Ford employee) that comes by the dealerships to verify warranty claims. If that person deems that there is a mod that caused the failure, then the repair will not be done under warranty. The dealership is bound to follow the direction of this "expert". You can take whatever paper you want to the dealership, it's not going to help unless you talk to the "expert", and since he travels around the region it's probably very difficult to corner him. So what is your recourse? You can sue the dealership, but imagine what kind of costs would be involved with that, and in the end you might lose anyway. For example, if you have a CAI and tune and you burn a valve, it is unlikely they would repair it under warranty as a lean tune could very well cause a problem like this. If you sue it wouldn't be difficult for the dealership to show that the mod -could- have led to the failure. They don't have to prove that it -did-, they only need to instill some doubt. Now maybe if you have a lawyer contact them they will decide it's easier to do the repair then go through with legal proceedings.

The bottom line is don't expect the Magnuson-Moss act to save your bacon on warranty repairs on a modded car, it won't. Don't expect your dealership to quake in fear because you place a big stack of paper on their counter, they won't. You really have to decide for yourself if performance mod's are worth giving up some warranty protection.

It should be noted that mod's do not void your entire warranty as is sometimes said around here. They only open the door to warranty repairs being rejected on the basis of the mod. If you have a CAI and tune and blow your rearend, the dealership likely wouldn't think twice about repairing it because the two aren't related.


bl1nk -> RE: Your Warranty RIGHTS! (6/19/2006 2:18:55 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tres Wright

I just posted the following in another thread on this same subject, but it looks like this is a better place for it. The bottom line is while a mod CANNOT void your warranty, it CAN be used as a basis to reject a warranty repair claim:

===============


I read a good thread about this recently, it was explained that there is a consultant (Ford employee) that comes by the dealerships to verify warranty claims. If that person deems that there is a mod that caused the failure, then the repair will not be done under warranty. The dealership is bound to follow the direction of this "expert". You can take whatever paper you want to the dealership, it's not going to help unless you talk to the "expert", and since he travels around the region it's probably very difficult to corner him. So what is your recourse? You can sue the dealership, but imagine what kind of costs would be involved with that, and in the end you might lose anyway. For example, if you have a CAI and tune and you burn a valve, it is unlikely they would repair it under warranty as a lean tune could very well cause a problem like this. If you sue it wouldn't be difficult for the dealership to show that the mod -could- have led to the failure. They don't have to prove that it -did-, they only need to instill some doubt. Now maybe if you have a lawyer contact them they will decide it's easier to do the repair then go through with legal proceedings.

The bottom line is don't expect the Magnuson-Moss act to save your bacon on warranty repairs on a modded car, it won't. Don't expect your dealership to quake in fear because you place a big stack of paper on their counter, they won't. You really have to decide for yourself if performance mod's are worth giving up some warranty protection.

It should be noted that mod's do not void your entire warranty as is sometimes said around here. They only open the door to warranty repairs being rejected on the basis of the mod. If you have a CAI and tune and blow your rearend, the dealership likely wouldn't think twice about repairing it because the two aren't related.



Right, everything you said is 100% correct, I just intended to supply people with some information so they arent continuing to ask "WILL MY WARRANTY BE VOID IF I ADD A CAI!?!?!?!?!?!" We all know this gets very old and Im trying to help some people out who also dont know their rights for their warranty under the law. And yes youre right some dealerships wont try to wiggle out of a warranty but I have seen some do it and thats enough for me. I have talked to plenty of people who have been denied warranty work on something totally unrelated to their mods. Friend of mine had his warranty voided because he added an exhaust and intake and they wouldnt replace his dash panels where they werent secured properly and were coming off. Granted it wasn't Ford but these laws apply to all dealerships. Yes I know the dealership warranty battle can get expensive and 99% of the time its not worth it because youll end up paying more for lawyers, court fees etc than to just repair the vehicle yourself, but if this helps just one person that happens to be in that 1% then purpose served.


LesteR723 -> RE: Your Warranty RIGHTS! (6/19/2006 4:38:54 PM)

can someone summarize this into a short book for me? [8|][sm=wtf.gif]


Sonic Boom NH -> RE: Your Warranty RIGHTS! (6/19/2006 5:03:39 PM)

I’ll try to make this as short as possible so please bear with me. First, I am not expert and this is ONLY my opinion based on reading not only the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act but many other articles written based off of it.

The Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act was intended and is intended to protect the consumer, the person who bought the vehicle, from the manufacture dictating to them, the consumer, that they MUST use the manufactures oils, filters, belts, tires, etc, the list goes on.

Now, a manufacture can FORCE you to use only their parts BUT if they do they, the manufacture, must supply it to you free of charge and free of any labor cost. That is the very short version of the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act.

The “Act” will NOT protect you if you install “performance enhancing” parts, such as a supercharger, nitrous oxide, suspension kits, etc. The reason is when you install those kinds of parts you are in fact “altering” the original design of the vehicle and frankly I would stand side by side with any manufacture in any court and take their side.

No one has a right to alter the vehicles original design AND then expect the manufacture to warranty items rendered defective because of said parts. For example if you install a supercharger and blow your motor, transmission or rear-end tough luck that’s your fault and NOT the manufactures.

With that said, the above example would ONLY render your power train warranty invalided but none of the rest of the warranty. People look at the warranty as a complete package and it is NOT, it has many entities to it such as electrical, suspension etc. While one may be rendered invalid the rest is not.

Personally I hope no manufacture would ever have to pay for repairs to someone’s vehicle that puts on a cold air intake and then blows the motor because of a lean condition. If the manufacture was ever forced to do those then guess what? We all pay for the dummies who know nothing about properly tuning a vehicle. Trust me the manufacture will indeed pass that cost along to everyone in the form of higher vehicle prices.

The Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act is ONLY FOR aftermarket parts that MEET the manufactures specifications. If you use the wrong motor oil that does not meet Ford’s specifications guess what? You out of luck because you just voided your warranty for failure to use the PROPER specified parts.

The Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act is NOT and has NEVER been for aftermarket PERFORMANCE INHANCING parts.

FORD CLEARLY STATES THE FOLLOWING:

From the Ford Cars and Light Trucks 2006 Model Year Warranty Guide (June 2005, Fourth Printing) page 8:

Not covered by the warranty:

”Damage Caused by Alteration or Modification
* alterations or modifications of the vehicle, including the body, chassis, or components, after the vehicle leaves the control of Form Motor Company.


That right their my friends should put everybody’s mind to rest because ANY alterations or modifications will void that part of the warranty. Cold air intake, tunes, programs then kiss the power train, transmission and rear-end warranty bye-bye. Lowering kits, kiss the suspension, possibly the transmission and rear-end warranty bye-bye etc…


Sonic Boom NH -> RE: Your Warranty RIGHTS! (6/19/2006 5:13:05 PM)

A bit of a short version:

If you have an aftermarket part that alters or modifies the vehicle, such as a CAI, tune, blower, suspension etc the dealer does NOT have to prove anything. All they have to do is tell you to read your warranty book, or if they are really nice they will simply photo copy what I had above:

Not covered by the warranty:

”Damage Caused by Alteration or Modification

* alterations or modifications of the vehicle, including the body, chassis, or components, after the vehicle leaves the control of Form Motor Company.


After that there is no court, no lawyer, nobody that can do anything, case closed…


hawgman -> RE: Your Warranty RIGHTS! (6/19/2006 5:14:24 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: bl1nkage

In hopes to provide a deep enough and detailed enough informational post that a moderator might consider making it a sticky so that we see less of these posts.


Well if it makes you feel better to have a crusade, more power to ya. I gave up on it long ago because it never will sink in.....trust me.
Hell, for that matter, how many people ask where to buy touch up paint when it is in a sticky here. Or ask about a TSB when it is in a sticky, or any of the other stickys they ignore as much as they ignore the search function. But good luck with it anyway.


bl1nk -> RE: Your Warranty RIGHTS! (6/19/2006 6:17:01 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sonic Boom NH

I’ll try to make this as short as possible so please bear with me. First, I am not expert and this is ONLY my opinion based on reading not only the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act but many other articles written based off of it.

The Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act was intended and is intended to protect the consumer, the person who bought the vehicle, from the manufacture dictating to them, the consumer, that they MUST use the manufactures oils, filters, belts, tires, etc, the list goes on.

Now, a manufacture can FORCE you to use only their parts BUT if they do they, the manufacture, must supply it to you free of charge and free of any labor cost. That is the very short version of the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act.

The “Act” will NOT protect you if you install “performance enhancing” parts, such as a supercharger, nitrous oxide, suspension kits, etc. The reason is when you install those kinds of parts you are in fact “altering” the original design of the vehicle and frankly I would stand side by side with any manufacture in any court and take their side.

No one has a right to alter the vehicles original design AND then expect the manufacture to warranty items rendered defective because of said parts. For example if you install a supercharger and blow your motor, transmission or rear-end tough luck that’s your fault and NOT the manufactures.

With that said, the above example would ONLY render your power train warranty invalided but none of the rest of the warranty. People look at the warranty as a complete package and it is NOT, it has many entities to it such as electrical, suspension etc. While one may be rendered invalid the rest is not.

Personally I hope no manufacture would ever have to pay for repairs to someone’s vehicle that puts on a cold air intake and then blows the motor because of a lean condition. If the manufacture was ever forced to do those then guess what? We all pay for the dummies who know nothing about properly tuning a vehicle. Trust me the manufacture will indeed pass that cost along to everyone in the form of higher vehicle prices.

The Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act is ONLY FOR aftermarket parts that MEET the manufactures specifications. If you use the wrong motor oil that does not meet Ford’s specifications guess what? You out of luck because you just voided your warranty for failure to use the PROPER specified parts.

The Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act is NOT and has NEVER been for aftermarket PERFORMANCE INHANCING parts.

FORD CLEARLY STATES THE FOLLOWING:

From the Ford Cars and Light Trucks 2006 Model Year Warranty Guide (June 2005, Fourth Printing) page 8:

Not covered by the warranty:

”Damage Caused by Alteration or Modification
* alterations or modifications of the vehicle, including the body, chassis, or components, after the vehicle leaves the control of Form Motor Company.


That right their my friends should put everybody’s mind to rest because ANY alterations or modifications will void that part of the warranty. Cold air intake, tunes, programs then kiss the power train, transmission and rear-end warranty bye-bye. Lowering kits, kiss the suspension, possibly the transmission and rear-end warranty bye-bye etc…



There are many many parts of this that are wrong but a few that are right, Ill come back and correct you later because you are misunderstanding some things.


  

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