<FONT face="Times New Roman, Times, serif" color=magenta size=3>i need a lil help with my 4 cyl 2.3 mustang.<IMG src=smileys/smiley19.gif border="0">..when i bought it they had put in the engine new...but the transmission is crap.<IMG src=smileys/smiley7.gif border="0">..ifn e one knows around how much it would be to replace it please tell me...and also...which would be more economic to do.....1.put in a turbo..2.a used v8 w/low miles..or 3.just get a whole new stang.....<IMG src=smileys/smiley5.gif border="0">..if i kept the 4 banger...its is possible to convert it to a dual exhaust instead of a single..? Thanks </FONT></P>


</P>

economic is most likely the turbo, for gas mileage sake if you can keep off the gas (i think), but installation would be a bitch. i say get a nice lx 5.0 notchback. but hey im a 15 year old kid. and on the subject of the dual exhaust...it would be pointless since there is only one engine bank, but it may be possible...</P>


bottom line in my eyes...new tranny cant be cheap, you seem unsatisfied with your current car, but dont seem to mind fox bodies. so i say just get a notch 5.0...you can get em under 3 grand i hear. if that's not economical enough for yago buy a fiesta or something. <IMG src=smileys/smiley2.gif border="0"></P>

<FONT face="Times New Roman, Times, serif" color=magenta size=3>Amazingly enough...my car moves now...one of my friends drained about 5 qts of tranny fluid and then replaced maybe 3 qts and it runs fine for now....i think the problem was that it was just too full....hopefully that was all that was wrong...and i was told i need a new oxygen sensor cuz black stuff is coming outta my exhaust...if i didnt put a dual exhaust which single would u suggest?</FONT></P>


<FONT face="Times New Roman, Times, serif" color=magenta size=3>On the turbosubject how much would that run me? i'm not really concerned about themoney issue...and my friend could put the turbo in for me soo..all i basically need is abase price for a good turbo!thanks<IMG src=smileys/smiley1.gif border="0"></FONT></P>

if money doesnt matter, then i now really suggest getting a 5.0

When you speak of cost that depends on what you want. For example, a local salvage yard has a 2.3L TC for $350. I havn't had the chance to check it out but I'm sure I just can't take that motor out of that junker put into my car, so that will be more money. Then there is the question of a transmission and rear-end. You say money is not a concern, but are you willing to wait the time it would take to complete the car. A project like this doesn't happen over night. </P>


If your not willing to put in the time, and since money is not a concern, go to the dealership and pick out a new one.</P>

you will need to do more than just a turbo install, you have to install a turbo timer because the engine timing has to advance and retard as the boost kicks in and out, plus , the stock 2.3l engine won't take alot of boost before puking parts, if you seriously want a turbo 2.3 look for a cougar, thunderbird, or xr4ti (all turbo) to engine swap, that way you have the turbo, the proper engine, oil cooling lines, and the eec-iv that controls all the timing advancement, this isn't a weekend job for a rookie, so do some research before you are carless for a couple weeks. i've been planning a turbo stang for 3 years, still can't bring myself to do all the work. if you want some more power cheap, take out the air tube, the big round thing that says for on it has a air silencer in it,remove it with a pair of needle nose plyers(both sides)then replace your air filter with a hi flow filter,then you could always upgrade your ignition coil, plug wires and plugs, and use synthetic oil in the engine, this is all noticeable but not a huge difference, i am also told that a throttle body from a 5.0 will fit with some modifacation, but i havent tried that yet. good luck

i'm getting e- mails that are telling me i'm not quite explaining myself correctly(actually that i'm not right at all)all i have to say,is if you listen to these people telling you it's easy, and you end up blowing your brand new motor,it's not my fault. </P>

THE SECOND AND THIRD OPTIONS IS WHAT I WOULD CHOOSE. YOU CAN DO A 5.0 SWAP EASIER THAN TRUING TO FIT A TURBO ON YOUR 2.3. IF YOU WOULD GET A 2.3 OUT OF A TURBOCHARGED CAR YOU WULD NEED EVERYTHING COMPUTER, WIRE AND ALL THE HARDWARE TO GET IT RIGHT. THE 5.0 SWAP ALL YOU NEED IS A FRONT WIRNG HARNESS COMPETER ENGINE AND TRANS SET IT IN AND GO. BUYING A 5.0 IS JUST EASIER AND YOUR BETTER OFF DOING THAT. SINCE MONEY IS NO OPTION YOU COULD PICK UP A HIGHLY MODIFIED CAR FOR A FEW THOUSAND. IF YOU SELL YOUR CAR THEN THAT WOULD BE EVEN LESS OUT OF POCKET EXPENSE TO YOU.

Thanks...yeah i've been told by alot to just get a 5.0 so i will prolly end up doing just that...i should get a stick right? that would be faster correct???what would enhance the 5.0? thanks<IMG src=smileys/smiley1.gif border="0">

i' ve done a 5.0 progect and it's freakin' easy,i got the motor/tranny wiring and exhaust(basically all i need) out of a 88 lincoln mark 7, i parted the rest of the car out made $200 on parts(only paid $50 for the whole car) and $40 for the 1990 lx mustang, so the parts car paid off most of my project, to see pics of the project stang <FONT size=1>http://members.cardomain.com/not_his</FONT> (http://members.cardomain.com/not_his)<FONT size=1> </FONT><FONT size=2>it runs great, goes like stink,all for like $25... CANADIAN . it still needs paint, windshield, guages hooked up, and exhaust from converter back,but i think it's worth it.</FONT>

you could alway put a c-4 tranny with a neal chance converter with the stall around 3000 rpm and it would snap your neck off. and it is consistant.

look, if the timing get's retarded, it has to go back to where it was(advance) and i know for a fact that a stock 2.3l will NOT take the boost from a turbo, also, a turbo timer has nothing to do with cooling... that's what oil lines are for. i talkes to a guy that built one(turbo stang) and he tried to add a turbo to a stock 2.3....first spool of the turbo it dropped a crank bearing, so don't come here talking like you know everything.I haven't done a turbo project yet and yes i don't hardly know anything, but i do know what a dozen people have told me, that have all been in this for a long while, one was a volkswagon mechanic,one owns 2 turbo talons,one owns a 83 buick t type 4 barrel 3.8 turbo and 2 86 grand nationals,and the rest were merker xr4ti owners,turbo ranger and stang owners,and i did own a 85 t- bird turbocoupe, so i don't know much about turbos...but i know what NOT to do.

if you think that there all the same block your talking out your ass and you've never even seen a 2.3l turbo, the blocks are different seeings as the turbo has heavy duty crank bearings, andone has lower compression( i can verify this)than the other..but with a name like jeep we never expected you to know anything about fords.lol..listen buddy i may not know alot and you say QUOTE "someone might believe you" maybe you should take your own advice! you are going to cost somone alot of money if they do what you say,and i havent said anything that will break anything...i just try to get them to do it right..you say it's no problem to do this turbo upgrade,i say research it and make sure there doing it right before they spend more money than they have to. i just wanna help, and i dont need any trouble from you, i'm here to have fun.,maybe you should do the same.

well i found out that you are right and that is what a turbo timer does,my deepest apologys, he said he called this "machine" a turbotimer because it retards the boost, so i misnamed it, still, this retarding still needs to be done and the stock ecm isn't going to do it, and this sound like a rich project a jeep owner would do.

you have to install a turbo timer because the engine timing has to advance and retard as the boost kicks in and out
Oh my god. Please tell me you're kidding. Haha I don't even know what to say to this. It's pretty bad when I can't get past the first line without laughing so I'll just leave this alone...<IMG src=smileys/smiley21.gif border="0"></P>


also, a turbo timer has nothing to do with cooling... that's what oil lines are for</P>


Again, what the hell...I don't know where your source for this information is but they are wrong....just wrong...</P>


Let me edjumicate you:</P>


A turbo timer's SOLE purpose is to allow the oil that lubricates the turbo time to circulate and cool down. Nothing more, nothing less. You runa turbocar hard and then shut it directly off...then guess what, after enough times of doing that the oil is going to begin to destroy the bearings in the turbo. Then that will lead to "shaft-play" of the turbo's turbine. Then guess what happens next...you're cruisin along, checkin your naws pressure gauge, pimpin your car, revving at every car you see, flooring it...basically being a jackass and running the car hard, then all of a sudden, remember those neglected bearings, yeah well they give you a big f*ck you and sieze up...then bye bye turbo, you've just ruined it.</P>


</P>


The moral of the story is turbo timers SOLE, SOLE, SOLE DAMNIT purpose is cooling....not retarting timing, not retarding and increasing boost(that's a boost controller), and not there to look cool and pose like you have a turbo...it's to allow the turbo to cool down.</P>


Thank you class, please hand in your homework assignments and notes as you leave the classroom. No I won't answer any questions and no I will not be available after class to help you. You are dismissed. Now give me your tuition money...</P>


-Jon-</P>


</P><edited><editID>94teggy</editID><editDate>37838.9605439815</editDate></edited>

Now that we all know how I feel, lets remember that this is supposed to be a friendly forum and while we do get aggrivated sometimes we must remember that not everyone in here has the mechanical knowledge of Jeep, myself or many of the other more advanced members. Try not to tear anyone apart. We dont want to hurt anyones feelings. Everyone is here to learn.

If your making fun of someone who is trying to learn then yes your "incredibly helpful post" will be deleted. If you can correct the mistake and treat the guy like a human being then it wont. Bottom line end of story

I treat people like human beings. It's just hard to see.

If I sit there and blow their head off I'm treating them like deer.

Very hypocritical of you to delete my post since it proved him wrong....but happened to rip on someone that doesn't have a backbone. But you leave his up with no countering posts but teggy's? C'mon.

I say better to let him learn his lesson that he can't bulls**t gearheads, to quit posting mis-information (he corrected it what, twice and it's still wrong?)




To sum it all up in one nice bundle:


you have to install a turbo timer because the engine timing has to advance and retard as the boost kicks in and out

Turbo timers have nothing to do with spark

if you seriously want a turbo 2.3 look for a cougar, thunderbird, or xr4ti (all turbo) to engine swap, that way you have the turbo, the proper engine, oil cooling lines, and the eec-iv that controls all the timing advancement

To the best of my knowledge they are the same block.....Sounds to me like the only thing you'd really need that would simplify things would be the computer and harness for timing control.......if it's not based off a distributor (never fooled around on a 2.3 personally).

this isn't a weekend job for a rookie, so do some research before you are carless for a couple weeks. i've been planning a turbo stang for 3 years, still can't bring myself to do all the work.

It's not that bad if you follow directions, take it slowly, and have others to help out if you're not sure. It's the tuning part that's a pain in the ass.

replace your air filter with a hi flow filter,then you could always upgrade your ignition coil, plug wires and plugs, and use synthetic oil in the engine, this is all noticeable

No it's not. I drive a 4 banger daily that's an assload lighter than a stang. A good tune up would do your car better for performance.

i am also told that a throttle body from a 5.0 will fit with some modifacation

Or you could sit there with a flap wheel and bore out the stock one yourself? It works great and costs less than $7 to do (assuming you have a drill), and helps out your mid/high end a lot.

i know for a fact that a stock 2.3l will NOT take the boost from a turbo

Sure it will, as long as you don't try getting stupid and push the envelope.

]also, a turbo timer has nothing to do with cooling... that's what oil lines are for.

The turbo timer allows engine oil to circulate through the bearings after the motor's been turned off, which cools them and prolongs turbo life.

i talkes to a guy that built one(turbo stang) and he tried to add a turbo to a stock 2.3....first spool of the turbo it dropped a crank bearing

That doesn't mean anything. I know people who have blown rods out the sides of blocks driving to work. Does that mean that the whole engine seiries sucks? No, it doesn't.

]owns a 83 buick t type 4 barrel 3.8 turbo and 2 86 grand nationals

So three Regal T types? Great cars, but the carb'd versions suck.

the blocks are different seeings as the turbo has heavy duty crank bearings, and*one has lower compression

Cranks and compression ratios aren't part of the block bud.

but with a name like jeep we never expected you to know anything about fords.

With a name like Smuckers it has to be good. I fail to see how what I used to drive affects my knowledge when it comes to gasoline engines, considering they all work on the same basis no matter who made it.

maybe you should take your own advice! you are going to cost somone alot of money if they do what you say,and i havent said anything that will break anything

What haven't you said that isn't wrong and won't possibly cause failure of a motor? In a worst case sinerio, turning an engine on will f**k it up. At least I'm not lying or talking out of my ass.

this turbo upgrade,i say research it

Research is always key, and believe me, and I more than know what's involved.

he called this "machine" a turbotimer because it retards the boost

That would be a boost controler...and it's called turning down, dialing down, depressurizing....first time I've head of retarding boost.

so i misnamed it, still, this retarding still needs to be done and the stock ecm isn't going to do it

Yes, retarding of the SPARK needs to be done. The blah blah blah blah ecm you talked about in a swap would probably swap right over, so just do that. Still a stock ecm that'll do the job.


and this sound like a rich project a jeep owner would do.

So suddenly, I become rich by being 18 and washing cars 60 horus a week and own a Jeep. Damn, it'd be nice if life was like that.<edited><editID>jeep45238</editID><editDate>37840.0223726852</editDate></edited>

dang turboeeyore.....<IMG src=smileys/smiley18.gif border="0">

http://firetresses.com/pix/Jeep/owned.JPG border=</P>


http://firetresses.com/pix/Jeep/dunfuqwitme.JPG border=

Nuff said. </P><edited><editID>mustangforums</editID><editDate>37842.5031134259</editDate></edited>

On a lighter note , yes it is possible to get duals put on the car. i had them put on mine when it was a 4 banger. It didn't do much as for sound though. it let out alittle "grunt" when i'de first hit the gas but nothing after that. Granted I had cheaper "turbo" mufflers put on it. all they did was run one pipe through the cross member and made a "Y" out to two mufflers. They did have to do some wierd crappy looking welding to hang the muffler on the right hand side since there wasn't one there already.</P>


As far as my opinion,buy a 5.0 Notchback like everyone is saying. This guy at my work is buying one next week for $2,500. It has lots of engine work done to it but with average body condition. there is another one at a used car lot near my town with immaculate interior and body and 78,000 miles. They want $5,700 for it.It is harder to find Notches around here since we have a drag strip close by and Mustangs are the favorite in my area. Notches are the lightest so i guess everyone goes after them first. I see hatchbacks all the time cheap. My uncle buys wrecked and usedstangs and fixes them up to sell and everything. He always has lots of decent ones he is selling for $4000 or less.look around and buy a 5.0,I did the 2.3 to 5.0 swap and although it wasn't the hardest thing to do , it wasn't easy . If you are going to do it yourself then it can be pretty cheap providing you buy a donor car and not try to buy everything seperate. If you are going to have to have someone do it for you then you are wasting your time really. You'll have to buy the donor car or parts and then labor is possibly going to cost so much you could almost buy a 5.0 of decent quality and not have to wait or mess with the swap. </P>


As far as the differences in 2.3 blocks i have only heard of something to do with oil provisions to the turbo. I can't remember anything else that was said in my 2 years of researching a 2.3 N/A to 2.3T conversion concerning the block. There are differences in internals though. Anyways after the 5.0 swap i dont know what I was thinking when i wanted to fool with the 4 banger. I'm sure 2.3's are nice when highly modified but the parts I found at Esslinger , Racer Walsh and some of the other places weren't exactly cheap. Money well spent on a 5.0 or 5.4 rather than a 2.3 </P>


Sorry for talking so much by the way . I'm up to late and I'm fairly hyper right now hehe!<IMG src=smileys/smiley5.gif border="0">Nobody flame at me if i said something stupid , but feel free to correct me. i'de rather be prven wrong than give bad advice. </P>

in my local newspaper...5.0 notch 1990, 5 speed. like 175k miles...but f**king $1,800! its even modded! notches are common and cheap!

I wish I could find more of them around here though. if i had found a decent 5.0 Notch I'de have screwed my swap and just bought it instead. i wish i could have found a nice 5.0 Notch to mod and play around with and left mine a 4 banger for road trips.

i guess since mustangs are common here, so are the oldies.

On a lighter note , yes it is possible to get duals put on the car. i had them put on mine when it was a 4 banger.

It's gay putting duals on a single bank motor (yes, even if it's an I6).

The thing about duals on a 4 banger is you're better off without. Why?

Because although the exhaust velocity CAN skyrocket, with two pipes to fill up and speed gases out of the motor will need to rev much higher to prodce enough volume to do it. It will probably need to rev higher than it can (IE 12 grand when it can only hit 7 grand).

Stick to a single pipe, you'll be happier.

Actually the reason I did it was because I needed a new exhaust badlybecause of rattling and fumes coming into the cab ,and since we had the engine swap planned in the futureI figured we'd just cut the "y" off and run pipes back to the mufflers when we got the 5.0 in. Rather than buy 2 new exhaust systems in a short period of time.Besides,I was answering her question on wether or not it is possible to do , not telling her to do it. And on a side note, It doesn't make adifference either way. i didn't feel anyloss or gainin power whatsoever so it doesn't matter either way to me. I don't recommend it as a so called "Mod" since it doesn't do crap,I did it to savemoney on buying a dual setuponce I swapped the 5.0in. And it worked , it cost me $50 to get the"Y" cut off and have2 pipes ran back.</P>

See, you have plans like that and modify to accomidate them.

Most people don't<img border="0" src=smileys/smiley2.gif border="0">

And MAJOR props to you for your project, not a lot of people have the balls to go ahead and do it.

Thanks , it's still rough though right now. I still got some wiring issues , and somethings not right with the carb. That car used half a tank of gas in 1 day. i bet I only drove 20 miles . Its crazy . Anyways, I wish i could find a digital camera to borrow from someone. I did some real cool stuff with the interior today. i replaced alot of the center console pieces with diamond plate pieces I made. I also made a diamond plate piece that covers where my old shifter was. It has switches in it for my fans and fuel pump, and also has a switch for my amp , in case the popo pass by when i'm cruising. Flip that switch and the subs cut off in no time baby! hehe. The car itself looks awsome. Alittle paint and it'l be sweet ass. Just doesn't run like I want it to right now.

Nice work man, definately planning things out. I wish more people thought things through like you<img border="0" src=smileys/smiley2.gif border="0">

You check the a/f of the exhaust? If you can find an O2 sensor, shove it in there (you can always put a bolt in it then tack weld it shut) and it'll give you an idea if you're rich/lean. Very helpful.

I'm going for the stealth s**t personally. I'm gonna have a 14 or hopefully 13 second ride.....and it's gonna look completely stock.<img border="0" src=smileys/smiley4.gif border="0">

Well ,I am actually going to put my stock hood back on too. this big ram air one looks sweet but it isn't painted and it sticks up to high. Kinda makes me feel like a redneck-ricer. I think it looks more sleek with the stock one anyways , or maybe a 2" cowl or soemthing.Just sucks because my air cleaner and the top of the a/c bracket cause the hood not to shut. So i'm going to have to get a smaler air cleaner and either mod the a/c bracket or figure out a way to take the a/c off. i already tried once but i was unable to find a way to route the belt . Do you know of a kit to delete the a/c? My smog pump is already gone.I got the belt routed once and thought I was the s**t , then realized the water pump would be going the wrong damn way! Hahaha. If I get rid of the a/c the belt will hit the water pump pulley , so i have to make a bracket or find a kit to put a pully where the a/c was so it'll hold the belt up.

Go to Ford and get a belt for a non-A/C 'stang, the tension will be fine and you can completely remove the A/C system.

As far as the hood, get the stock one and use a whiz wheel on it. Starting a couple inches in front of the air cleaner, cut two lines towards the cowl running paralel to the air cleaner

| |
|.|
| | Like that, with the air cleaner being the . Carefully bend the metal just enough to clear the air cleaner, and you now have no clearance issues and a cowl-induction to the height you want it (yes, you'll need to fiberglass the hood part up to the areas you just bent away, but it's a skill I wish I had, so why not learn it?)

I gues it's worth a try. I have 3 stock hoods setting here now as of today. I bought them from my uncle for $15 bucks each. They have really bad paint but I just got them so i could experiment. I think It would look cool if I made one that had a round hole where the air cleaner stuck out the top. Kinda like the round track cars we have around here. Alittle redneck but I think it would look cool with alittle chrome trim around the hole . The other one I guess I will try what you said . I'm going to keep the original hood stock and not bang on it because it's still painted the same color as the car and I am eventually going get a bracket and pulley kit and reposition where the alternator is and try to delete the a/c pulley. I would get one of the belt you are talking about but it actually isn't a belt issue. It's just that when i take the a/c pulley off there is no way to route the belt. It causes the belt to have to go from the power steering pump straight to the alternator. The water pump pulley is directly between and the belt runs right into it. Hard to explain , maybe I can draw a pic. I had the belt on it once in a way it would have worked, but it was on the wrong side the water pump. Water + Pump runnin wrong direction = Not good . haha<IMG src=smileys/smiley8.gif border="0"></P>

THERE IS AN IDLER PULLY THAT FORD PUT ON IN PLACE OFTHE AC COMPRESSIOR. I WILL RUN ABOUT 50$ OR YOPU CAN PICK ON UP AT A SWAP MEET FOR AROUND 35$ . WHEN YOU POURCHASE THE IDLER PULLEY I T WILL HAVE THE SIZE OF BELT YOU WILL NEED, BUT IT SHOULD BE THE SAME SIZE AS WHAT WAS ON IT BEFORE. MY 88 CAME WITH OUT AIR FROM THE FACTORY AND IT HAD THE IDLER PULLY SET UP ON IT. SUMMITT CARRIES IT ALONG WITH MANY OTHER MUSTANG PARTS PEOPLE.</P>

Awsome , thanks man. I'll check it out

on this subject of 4 cyl 2.3.... i saw one at the track today...running low 20's in the 1/4 consistently. ditch it ASAP for a V6 or V8.

When i had a 2.3 in my car I almost decided to cut the floorboard out and just use my legs to power the car. Almost as fast and yousave on gas money <IMG src=smileys/smiley1.gif border="0">

And get a crazy workout.

My 4 banger's at 16 flat right now.<img border="0" src=smileys/smiley14.gif border="0">

there was on in colombus that was in the 8 sec zone. of coarse when it took off it stood on it back bumper it was wild!

I thought it would be neat to keep my 2.3 and make it a monster but it just wasn't working. The stuff for them is way to high and I figured it would be cheaper and easier to put in a 5.0. But yeah I have seen some 2.3 stangs and rangers, and some 2.0 pintos that lay down some serious numbers though.

<FONT face="Times New Roman, Times, serif" color=magenta size=3>Alrighty....for now i have to keep the 4 banger..i only spent 800 bucks so of course its gonna need a lil tlc....but dam i didnt think it would need this much...at this point i cant afford to get a 5.0...<IMG src=smileys/smiley19.gif border="0">...sumthin is up with the tranny...my moms bf fixed theleaks in the pipes and we thought that was it...but it is STILL leaking...sum ppl say it could be too full...so im not real sure what to do...i just put a new exhaust on it...i dont want ne thing leakin into that s**t and messin it up!! lol if that is even possible...hmmm..i doubt it but still after paying 300 for it i worry!!!..alright thanks to n e one who helps! <IMG src=smileys/smiley17.gif border="0"><IMG src=smileys/smiley2.gif border="0"></FONT>

Here's the obvious question:

did you check the dipstick for the fluid level in the tranny? If that's not there (Fords are weird...), empty it after you find what the fluid level is supposed to be and fill it to the specified point.

I have a feeling you have a gasket that's shot.

<FONT color=magenta size=2>yeah we did check it..and it always says that its lower than its suppostto be...sooo i'm thinkin maybe another leak or sumthing..ormaybe what u said a shot gasket...i'll hafta look ...</FONT>

Might be the front seal. Where is it leaking , the bell housing or the lines or what? As far as trans fluid getting on the exhaust it wont hurt anything it'll just smoke alittle and stink like hell. My old tranny was leaking from the bellhousing and I thought it was the front seal , but i got a big suprise. Believe it or not but the input shaft in the tranny had snapped in half! The most amazing part was that after it started leaking alittle and giving problems accelerating and stuff , i still drove it almost 6 months before I got it checked out and they showed me the broken input shaft. It had broken at an angle and was basically spinning around inside and getting just enough contact with the other broken end to make the car still move haha. Other than the leaking and weak acceleration I didn't think anything serious was wrong . The guy said he had never seen it happen before. Anyway sorry for the story , I severly doubt thats whats wrong with yours hehehe. i'de say it is a gasket like jeep is saying or the front seal maybe. i've even had a tranny leak out of the dipstick tube hole before. </P>

Where you at ive got a 1992 Mustang LX with a turbo four i will sell

Im in lower michigan

i just posted a reply and forgot to put my email


ask_your_mom@hotmail.com