apparently u didnt put ur engine together right i was pulling my left front tire with my 351c 2v in my 72 fastabck with an open rear and 3:1 gears!! clevelands make power effortlessly try making 400hp powerfor about 500$ in mods to a windsor! do u really think u can? the problem with 4vs are the ports are to large and the aussie heads is the perfect street head closed chambers and 2v ports!
My dad worked for fords drag racing program from 65 to 78, we got alot of bob gliddens old pro stock equipment for testing, he was a cleveland guy, I was a youngin back then but grew up on clevelands, we would spin them to 9k to make 750 hp. The engines are dinosaurs and are becoming rapidly extinct. I been around the block many times with clevelands, please. They are nothing special and the winsor is by far a better design. Let's not talk about the cleveland oiling problems while were on the subject
I dont understand why peoplea are trashing Clevelands. They make massive power compared to windsors. Me and most other people on here would pick a cleveland if put to the test. they make power to easy.
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I dont understand why peoplea are trashing Clevelands. They make massive power compared to windsors. Me and most other people on here would pick a cleveland if put to the test. they make power to easy.
cause in 5-10 years they will be extinct, like I said you need to seriously scour for a useable block core to begin with. They will literally be extinct. Winsor is a much superior design
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they just stopped making cleve in aussie country!! plenty of block for years to come if it was extinct why would edelbrock start making new heads for them?? the heads are awesome to begin with that why they just started making them!!u still apparently havent looked at the aus ford site??
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go watch that vid its of a 65 fastabck it sounds pretty sick i plan on puttin the cleve from my old 72 in my 65 and inject it with a with a t56 from a viper so i can have the .50 sixth gear ratio and runn some steep gears in the rear and it still be driveable!
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I think for mainly street performance on a budget the the cleve is the way to go, the heads are awesome stock and even if the bottom ends in them arent so $hit hot, street use wouldnt tear them up too quick. However, if you were willing to spend the money on the heads for the windsor, you can make mad power, and the bottom ends are pretty stout to begin with. Really it comes down to personal preference since each engine has one major downfall and is pretty costly to fix. Cleves have the bad bottom and W's have the crappy heads. So it doesnt really matter if you have the money which one you go with.
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Given the vast aftermarket of the 302 and 351W, these would be your best choices as far as engines for your car. The 302 fits better in a 64.5-66 but the 351 will require special headers or manifolds to clear the shock towers.
The 351C has potential to be just as powerful as a 351W, originally the 351Cs main restricton was the added weight of the valve-train (not a big issue anymore). The 351W was kept until the 90s and the Cleveland was dropped in the 70s, that is the reason for the big aftermarket for the Windsor (more 351Ws were made). I have found places that will cast 351C blocks, new and improved(ending the core-shift problem), but few and far between; whereas people casting the 351W are numerous(due to the large demand of 351Ws). The demand for the 351C doesn't warrant a large aftermarket, so a small one is in place The old FEs were thought to be gone so there was a small market, but low and behold, the demand increased and the market has started to expand(an example of demand and supply, increased demand means increased supply). If the demand for 351C increases, then the market will begin to grow and expand creating a rival to the 351W. Until a larger aftermarket for the 351C is made, its price will be high and production numbers will be low. Because it is easier to get 351W parts, the 351W is the better(and cheaper) way to go for now. I am a fan of the Cleveland, but I do not have the budget for one, so I stick to the Windsor.
If you're building a race car, go with the Cleveland, but for the street go Windsor. The ports and valves in the Cleveland are too big to make low end power, which is what you need for the street and drivability. You get in to the high rpm though and it can't be beat. The Windsor is a compromise between the two extremes and is much better suited for street driving. There are heads available that breath pretty good, they won't match the Cleveland in high rpm, but are pretty good in making some serious horsepower without giving up low end torque.
< Message edited by Cowboy Steve -- 5/14/2006 10:58:10 PM >
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thats why u run the aussie head or the american 2v head with flat tops! there is a rather large aftermarket for the 351c down under they had 302c that were destroked even there really doesnt need top be a huge aftermarket its hard to improve on the stock engines!!!
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Decurion
351C the best engine ford ever made? PLEASE! Edelbrock makes aluminum heads for AMC engines and Oldsmobile, but not for the Cleveland, that should say something about it.
interesting, I looked before I made that comment too, must be fairly new. Jegs doesnt carry them. Anyway, the cleveland is a better engine in THEORY with its canted valves and bigger ports, but in reality its heavy, has poor casting qualities, almost no aftermarket parts, and original parts are fairly scarce (apparently unless you live down under). Nobody answered my question as to how much a cleveland weighs versus a windsor. According to this page: http://www.team.net/sol/tech/engine.html the cleveland weighs in at 550 lbs, while the windsor is just 510. Not as much of a difference as I thought, but you could easily save 165 lbs by going to a 347 with aluminum heads versus the klunky kleveland. The cleveland is still a dinosaur. Theres more aftermarket parts for an FE or a flathead, let the poor Cleveland die and put it out of its misery.
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This is such an infantile argument. Has anyone here heard of the original V-8 engine? It was introduced by Ford in 1932, with a 221 cubic inch displacement and 65 hp @3400 rpm. in 1933, Ford introduced aluminum heads increasing compression and reducing weight...adding 10hp. The story continued through 1953 (and some minor Canadian production for a few additional years). In 1953, the last cast flathead V-8 displaced 337 cubic inches and yeilded 145 hp 225 lb-ft or torque.
The flathead launched hotrodding and created an industry out of extracting more horsepower from a production vehicle engine.
The engine hasn't been produced in the US in 53 years and it is making a resurgence in street rodding. You can still buy cams, pistons, heads, carbs, etc. for this engine. Granted the Cleveland never stacked up to the popularity and production of the flathead, but it is still a very popular and reliable engine. One can buy ANY part for a Cleveland engine. Aftermarket production of performance intakes and heads are stirring the pot.
The Cleveland may be a dinosaur but it is a T-Rex.
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interesting, I looked before I made that comment too, must be fairly new. Jegs doesnt carry them. Anyway, the cleveland is a better engine in THEORY with its canted valves and bigger ports, but in reality its heavy, has poor casting qualities, almost no aftermarket parts, and original parts are fairly scarce (apparently unless you live down under). Nobody answered my question as to how much a cleveland weighs versus a windsor. According to this page: http://www.team.net/sol/tech/engine.html the cleveland weighs in at 550 lbs, while the windsor is just 510. Not as much of a difference as I thought, but you could easily save 165 lbs by going to a 347 with aluminum heads versus the klunky kleveland. The cleveland is still a dinosaur. Theres more aftermarket parts for an FE or a flathead, let the poor Cleveland die and put it out of its misery.
Now THAT is an argument!!! a 347 stroker vs a 351W...this has started WARS!!! let me tell you!!...The 351W is better than the 347 stroker!!
I think you guys who love the clevelands so much have little experience in the winsor arena. The Winsor is far superior. Like I said all we used to run were clevelands, including my father our drag racing experience with clevelands stretches 2 decades and we always got the best stuff that was used up from bob glidden in NHRA. 21st century racers with the big dollar would run the cleveland if there was an advantage, there isnt, thats all there is to it. They are extremely tempermental, take a ton of work to make the same power as winsors and have nowhere near the reliability. As to the cleveland market. Sorry but your prayers for a resurgence like an FE is not gonna happen. Regardless of australia. Let the cleveland rest already.
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RE: 351W vs 302 vs 289 - 
