Posts: 11983
Joined: 12/22/2004 From: Ludlow, Mass Status: offline
quote:
ORIGINAL: namezod
point is why would ford spend money to put in a high tech v6 in their cars? People who buy v6 stangs don't give a **** for performance in ford's eyes.
maximas on the other hand are a higher class of cars. gas mileage is important for nissan's cars so they opt for a v6. power is to be expected on a high class car so they put a high tech v6 in their car.
and comon, a high tech v6 in a muscle car? that doesn't follow Ford's tried and true formula for sales.
they dont even have to spend the money, they could have put 4V heads on the old essex 3.8 and stoked it to a 4.2 and be looking at 350 HP
who cares about v6 mustangs there for wussys why would they bother making it more powerful they made it so people can have a mustang for cheap and have decent gas mileage, and who cares how much horsepower a maxima has its put to the wheels completely different way then a mustang, and there not fast so explain that? i can easily, there junk :)
The V6 Mustang is directed towards a different kind of clientelle than the GT is. They both get aroudn the same gas mileage...i drove an automatic V6 Mustang for my first car..now i drive a manual GT..i get about the same cuz of the 5-speed. even with an auto though...its be maybe 2 mpg less. the 4.6 is not as gas guzzling as you may think...unless you get on it almost every time you accelerate.
also...getting more hp out of a smaller engine like in the Maxima means better tuning...you have to run premium in a Nissan Maxima, Ford engineers their cars so that you can run regular 87 octane gas in them.
and...Nissans really arent all that bad for torque for being an import...a 2000 Maxima is rated at 222 hp, and 217 ft-lbs. thats not all that terrible...for an import Maximas arent junk, they could probably take out a V6 Mustang any day of the week stock for stock. and the brand new Maximas could keep up with us...265 hp and 255 ft-lbs.
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Vortech V2-SQ, BBK LT Headers, O/R H-Pipe, Bassani Catback, Centerforce Dual Friction Clutch, MGW Shifter, Eibach Prokit Springs, and more...
I've got a 1999 GT vert (260hp) and a 2006 maxima (265hp) and let me tell you, that Maxima is no slouch, it flat hauls for a V6, considering the weight penalty of my vert, stock for stock it would be closer than most people think. As for modding this motor, LOTS of room, check out stillen.com (exhausts, intakes, superchargers, etc). Probably the biggest reason it's more expensive is again the technology, the reliability, and the resale value of import cars. I totally agree, they are for two different things, but I really like having my Maxima as my DD.
...and as far as them being "junk"...... that person obviously doesn't know anything about Nissan's......
actually i know alot more than you think, and i wasnt talking about brand new maximas for your info, i was talking about the piece of **** old ones, and yeah there junk, the new ones are badass
Posts: 11983
Joined: 12/22/2004 From: Ludlow, Mass Status: offline
quote:
ORIGINAL: ncksnapper
actually i know alot more than you think, and i wasnt talking about brand new maximas for your info, i was talking about the piece of **** old ones, and yeah there junk, the new ones are badass
Posts: 2254
Joined: 4/3/2004 From: Louisville, Ky Status: offline
i dont think Nissan ever made ANYTHING i would call junk.
Look at the Kia RIO, 90hp. BOTTEM CLASS CAR
Nissan Maxima 265hp - mid priced car
BMW m3 - 3XX?hp - Top of the line
see the trend??? the higher class a car is the more power is expected of it. Would you buy a Lexus with 90hp?
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Don''''t be too proud of this technological terror you''''ve constructed. The ability to destroy a planet is insignificant next to the power of Big Oil.
Hey, no offense meant, just giving some real world info from someone that owns both and has owned Nissans since the firt car I bought 17 years ago. (and I'm on my second mustang too, had a 1990 LX vert 5.0 7-up edition too). I actually traded in a 2001 Maxima (222hp) that I bought new for this 2006. That one didn't have near the power as this one, but was still a really good car.
Posts: 7155
Joined: 4/27/2004 From: I live in Canada, eh Status: offline
quote:
ORIGINAL: Grog
Hey, no offense meant, just giving some real world info from someone that owns both and has owned Nissans since the firt car I bought 17 years ago. (and I'm on my second mustang too, had a 1990 LX vert 5.0 7-up edition too). I actually traded in a 2001 Maxima (222hp) that I bought new for this 2006. That one didn't have near the power as this one, but was still a really good car.
You were right. Maximas are great cars dude. They are quick and tight as hell. FAR from being junk.
Wow ! I better get a shovel !....The BS is getting deep in here....
Bottom line is the Nissan V6 is a higher tech engine, which is also more EXPENSIVE to make....A Maxima(assuming it's the same year) will ALWAYS be more expensive than a V6 mustang, and more often than not a GT mustang also....
I'ts NOT a marketing scheme by ford to push you into buying a GT...they STILL don't produce ANY V6 that make's more than 221hp that is currently in any of their vehicles....Nissan was doing that in the 80's... They opt to put in the gas-guzzling V8 because they can make a fast pony car that is still AFFORDABLE....It's been working pretty well for 40 YEARS....why would they change the formula now ???
Also trust me a Japanese V6 is not PUSHED TO THE LIMIT by the factory. They can mod and make big power too....
Never said they couldn't make big power, but because of the techie engine it takes $$$$ to have similar % gains vs a domestic.
Posts: 2533
Joined: 12/2/2003 From: Sacramento, CA Status: offline
No body really connected with DOHC VS SOHC. People mentioned the tech side but not what really helps the make the power. The Nissan also has a 10:1CR if I am correct. I have personal experiance with both engines, my 95' V6 and my wifes 93' 300ZX NA.
That 300ZX engine is no high strung and hard to modify.
If you add a stillen NA roots Supercharger @8psi you add 120hp. You get a chip with it too. If you put Long Tube headers on (Yes they do exist and somtimes can be found on ebay over the mid lengths) those add a typical 10-15hp, backed with a full 3" exhaust system w/ high flow cats and borla mufflers you can expect another 15-20hp. Unorthadox makes a complete 25% and 30% UD pulley set and a complete set of lightweight pulleys for accessories, take the clutch fan off and add an electric fan then a nice Custom Cold air (In place of the stock looking unit supplied with the SC) and you are talking about some major power. Along with the SC upgrade it is recomended to upgrade fuel pump, lines, rails and injectors. Nismo 555cc injectors would be perfect. On That stock engine you are talking 200hp extra making a Sick 425hp engine with almost the same torque. The Z's internals are forged so it can handle the abuse, be prepaired to run some damn good fuel though, personally I would go with the SNOW Performance Alky injection kit and add another 75hp and be able to run 91. So now your looking somewhere around the area of 500hp on pump gas on a stock engine. You cant say Nissan isnt easy to get power out of. Thats a lower than average number too, but people get scheptical if they dont have 100% proof infront of them. Head over to Z32.org and check them out sometime, you'll find lotsa people with similar engines. Alky Injections has been popular with Z owners for years. Cams are a must for this kind of power. Head porting is super easy with these heads also and that can free up all sorts of power. To Run that much power you need to double the MAF, there is a popular setup called a Dual pop that makes the engine think its only getting 1/2 the air flow, its a dependable setup with the idle controll modification. Something I didnt elaborate on earlier is with the custom intake off the SC from still you have to split it our to two dual 2.5" tubes to utilize the Dual pop setup.
Now if you have a TT engine, power into the 800hp range is possible with just $2500 dollars. Any higher than that and you want to replace the rod and main bearings with something more durable. Personally I like the roots idea because of the instant power and torque for road courses. I love road courses.
Now it is true that new new 350Z is hard to gain power on with SOME bolt ons like a CAI, you can actually lose hp with the wrong kit, but things like U-drive pulleys and better exhaust will increase power. There are reliable tuners too. Stillin also makes a SC for this car and that really boosts horsepower. 450hp is not an unseen number on these engines, there are even higher.
Now for ford, Ford has its own share of strong V6 engines, For instance take the SHO 3.0L That little DOHC sukka has 220hp and 200ftlbs and can easily be modded because the intake system is very restrictive, such as the air box, you can have alot of fun with those little engines. The new Ford Fuzion has A 3.0L DOHC with 221hp and 205ftlbs
Ford has the tech to put high power V6's in their cars, the 4.0L could make so much more power if they just made it a DOHC 24V with some sort of VVT. I think they need to get ahold of Cosworth and finish their old 3.8L DOHC project they had in Europe for racing. If they upped it to the next level and made 4.3L Stroker DOHC V6's then I could see them making a reasonable 300hp, and they should bump the V8 model up to 360hp min.
Oh another cool thing to do with an 89-96 300ZX is to take the engine out and stick a Small block ford or Chevy in there. Coming back from California I stopped to wait for my wife (In Her Z) and another Z came rolling up, sounded like a freakin 02' Z28 with open exhaust (We all know how that sounds) and I saw a velocity stack sticking out of his hood. I talked to him and he has put a 95' LT1 into that car and carburated it. It was a hell of a baddass car. He said it fit perfectly and the Camaro T5 works well too. He didnt change anything else to the car but the engine. Because the Z's V6 has its own computer the car runs perfectly without that computer. He said he was pushing 450hp out of his 355 LT1. It was a complete forged, ballanced and blueprinted bottom end. He was running block hugger headers but could fit a set of Build Your Own Super Comps in there. There is a 92' Z sitting in Arizona with a blown engine that I am thinking of buying, its only $500.
But I hope that helped a little. Sorry if its kinda choppy, took me 3 hours to write this because I am really busy with other things then I cooked dinner and then showered and a bunch of other crap.
Posts: 2533
Joined: 12/2/2003 From: Sacramento, CA Status: offline
well I knew the split was, I just always thought the early gen (94-95) single ports were 180 then in 96' then raised to 150hp/215. 99' The went to split. I have the split lower and upper off of a 99' F150 that I was going to put on my wifes 96' V6. I was going to have SuperSix build a set of their stage III splitport heads for it and get the matching cam. The 97-99 F150 4.2L V6 splitport had IMRC butterflies in the intake so when I port this one I am going to remove those and seal the holes.
I know a thing or two about V6 stangs, I just thought it was 180 for the T-Bird generation 3.8L In the 94/95. Talk about a low power rating, 87' 3.8L T-Bird now thats a dog :D That was my 2nd car. Cracked the head on it, thats another reason why I am putting splitports on the 96', because the heads are built a little better, the water passages arent so close together and arent prone to cracking so much.
Right now I am converting my mustang over to a Mach1 Sleeper, So I am removing all the weak V6 junk and installing GT or better parts, actually the only GT part being installed is the rear end which is an 8.8 Posi unit with only 2.73's but its a good unit that I paid all of $43 bux for. Its going to get an Auburn Torsen and I am going to upgrade the brakes. I have the front K-Member with my 03' Mach1 takeout but I am going with a tubular k-frame and coilover setup. Drop some weight and add some geometry. The TK3650 that I got with the engine is being sold because I want a TKO600 because that engine is going to product too much torque and the standard 356ftlbs will get shreaded. Its a new trans so no need to destroy it, may as well sell it and get the right part.
Anyways, not many like to read alot so im going to do something else cause writing is boring too :D
The Maxima v6 has four valves per cylinder. The Ford v6 has two.
It's kinda like comparing the Mustang GT to the Mustang Mach 1. Same displacement, one makes 40 more horsepower.
Ford doesn't make the base model GT a 400 horsepower machine because people want what's called 'gas mileage.' Large displacement engines are inefficient compared to smaller displacement engines.
Ford doesn't make their v6 have 260 horsepower because they'd rather spend their R&D dollars on the GT model, trying to make it more efficient and get more power without losing as much gas mileage. (The new GTs run a tune set for Premium gas from the factory. Recommended gas is 87 octane. Why? Because Ford put so much more r&d into the Spanish Oak computer and knock sensors that it relies solely on the knock sensors to automatically retard timing.)
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1994 GT Vert
For Sale or Trade: 390 Long Block w/ forged pistons and rods unassembled. PM me if interested, $350obo, or looking to trade for perf. parts (intake, heads, exhaust) or wheels (mach 1, cobra)
plain and simple, the v-6 mustang has the most bang for the buck. the gt has 300 hp yeah, but the sticker price is also $7,000 higher. for what? 90 hp, a spoiler, some foglights, rims that cost the factory almost nothing more, bigger rotors and a different axle ratio? come on! i can spend 4600 on a vortech supercharger kit and run it at 18 psi. in the end i will run around 450 hp and 470 sq. lbs p/ inch in torque. it is still 2400 cheaper in base price gt. take that 2400 and get the slotted rotors, and all that other useless crap that come with the gt. then when you smoke the sh*t out of a gt tell them its a v-6 that costs the same price. they'll look stupid as hell. you gotta know your sh*t before you run your mouth. and the maximas are nice cars no doubt. but what your paying the 5 or 6 grand for is the status, class, and luxury coupled with the power. they are two different types of cars. and that guy is right, for people who don't care about power, the v-6 is marketed towards different clients. knowledge is the reward for taking the time to gain the knowledge. - racing with love
waxyourboard, they can make a 400 hp engine with the same gas mileage. its not hard. all they have to do is punch in the adjustments in the ecu. it can alter the engine efficiency. the comp i have for my stang can get me up to 36 mpg city but that would take away all my get up and go. there's a thing called running to lean or too rich.
Posts: 2254
Joined: 4/3/2004 From: Louisville, Ky Status: offline
quote:
ORIGINAL: bennihill
plain and simple, the v-6 mustang has the most bang for the buck. the gt has 300 hp yeah, but the sticker price is also $7,000 higher. for what? 90 hp, a spoiler, some foglights, rims that cost the factory almost nothing more, bigger rotors and a different axle ratio? come on! i can spend 4600 on a vortech supercharger kit and run it at 18 psi. in the end i will run around 450 hp and 470 sq. lbs p/ inch in torque. it is still 2400 cheaper in base price gt. take that 2400 and get the slotted rotors, and all that other useless crap that come with the gt. then when you smoke the sh*t out of a gt tell them its a v-6 that costs the same price. they'll look stupid as hell. you gotta know your sh*t before you run your mouth. and the maximas are nice cars no doubt. but what your paying the 5 or 6 grand for is the status, class, and luxury coupled with the power. they are two different types of cars. and that guy is right, for people who don't care about power, the v-6 is marketed towards different clients. knowledge is the reward for taking the time to gain the knowledge. - racing with love
invest 7K into a GT and see what you get
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Don''''t be too proud of this technological terror you''''ve constructed. The ability to destroy a planet is insignificant next to the power of Big Oil.
Printable Version
RE: v6 maxima has 222 HP vs. v6 Stang 190? - 
Maximas arent junk, they could probably take out a V6 Mustang any day of the week stock for stock. and the brand new Maximas could keep up with us...265 hp and 255 ft-lbs.
