An SS = Z28 = FIREHAWK = WS6



This should really be a sticky...

Yes, JD and I and a few other LS1 guys have said that many times. In fact, he stickied an LS1 vs Mach 1 thread that discussed that, but "SS = Z28 = Firehawk = WS6" isn't in the title of the thread, so we must still deal with people (most of whom own none of the above vehicles) who insist that certain models are faster/more powerful.
In the case of the Firehawk, it's possible that a coupla mods done by SLP do the intake and exhaust might make a wee bit of power, I saw a dyno sheet that supported that. I don't think that those differences should amount to 35 hp, though (345 rating vs the Z28's 310).

Oh, and the ram air hood that adds that 5 extra hp...

Yes, the LS1 lowdown. It's the Gen III GM V-8. 346 cubic inches, 5.7 Litres of power.

1997: The LS1 was put in the new C5 Vette, packing about 350bhp.
1998: The LS1 stayed in the Vette and was also put in the slightly modifed 4th gen Camaro/Firebird. It also spawned 4.8 and 5.3 liter truck versions.
1999: Kept production in Vette and Fbodies.
2000: Same as above, still making around 350bhp on ALL LS1-equipped models, no matter the manufacter rating. Only difference was a cored rear cover oil passage.
2001: Addition of LS6 intake which bumped power up to around 370bhp on ALL models. All Corvette Z06s came with the LS6 block which, unless I'm mistaken had the LS6 bulkhead vent windows in #2, 3, and 4 bulkheads, which eliminated need for 28.5mm drilled vent hole.
2002: Same as above. Final year for Fbody production. LS6s got power upgrades to 405bhp.
2003: LS1 in Vettes, LS6s in Z06s and CTS-Vs. Block was converted to all short head bolts and greater step from cam bearing parent bore to cam bearing bore with no change to part numbers.
2004: Same as above, except now offered in Pontiac GTO.

The Gen IV V-8. LS2 364 cubic inches, 6.0 litres of power.
2005: Offered in Pontiac GTO, C6 Vette, SSR, and truck applications. 400bhp. Short head increased-step cam bore block design, with 101.6mm cylinder bore diamteters, low mass block and main cap design.
2006: Same as above with the addition of the LS7. 7.0 liters, 427.8 cid. 530bhp. Ownage.

ORIGINAL: Hisss04Cobra

Oh, and the ram air hood that adds that 5 extra hp...

Actually, it supposedly added 15 hp. Whateva, GM.

Oh, and I think 370 at the crank is pretty generous, 345 or so would probably be more accurate.

I outrun 2 LS1 Z28's the other day in my Si y0, but this new kid with an SS says he'll outrun me. What do you guys think? Do I have a chance against the SS?

ORIGINAL: 98LS1

I outrun 2 LS1 Z28's the other day in my Si y0, but this new kid with an SS says he'll outrun me. What do you guys think? Do I have a chance against the SS?

That's pretty much exactly the kind of posts we see. "You might be able to take a regular Z28, but whoa, look out for those Super Sports and Firehawks. You'll get schooooled!"

ORIGINAL: TommyV8

Oh, and I think 370 at the crank is pretty generous, 345 or so would probably be more accurate.


Well, if they're pulling (mind you, I'm talking about the '01-'02s here) 315rwhp minimum with a %15 drive train loss, that is 370bhp. With a 12% drive train loss it 325rwhp, which is just a wee bit higher than the average.

ORIGINAL: SSteele


Well, if they're pulling (mind you, I'm talking about the '01-'02s here) 315rwhp minimum with a %15 drive train loss, that is 370bhp.

315 minimum? Very very few put down 315 on the rollers in stock form, it would have to be a generous dyno. Im appreciate your opinion of my engine, though.;)

ORIGINAL: TommyV8


ORIGINAL: SSteele


Well, if they're pulling (mind you, I'm talking about the '01-'02s here) 315rwhp minimum with a %15 drive train loss, that is 370bhp.

315 minimum? Very very few put down 315 on the rollers in stock form, it would have to be a generous dyno. Im appreciate your opinion of my engine, though.;)

Not the 01-02 cars, average for these is 300-315 rwhp.

Very true.its been said too many times, and some readers still dont see through the misconception..ALL ls1s will dyno within 10 -15 hp of eachother in stock form.As far as the SS,WS6 and Firehawks go,these cars are just badge and small body details that give these cars a higher resale value.My point, for those who dont want to admit it.....Take a stock Z28[manual] and run it heads up with a SS[manual] with equal drivers.I firmly stand by the fact that since the guy in the SS payed thousands more, they will cross the line within tenths of eachother..its the badges and the spoiler and hood that makes these cars stand out ,not the fact that the guy who could afford the base model can go heads up all day long....

Not to leave the corvettes out,they are just lighter,with a better aero package and GM gets a little more hp out of the cam.

There where i few details missed that i have said on some other posts.

2001: The LS1's got a lightly smaller cam, and they got a slightly different head core. Heads changed from casting #853 to #241. Also the LS6 block came on 15% on the F-bodies.

2002: 25% of the F-bodies got the LS6 block.

There is essentially no power difference between models. Like said its just looks and handling changes. Some of the SLP cars did get some select extras worth more hp's though. Also it is not uncommon for a LS1 to put down 315rwhp in its stock form. It happens sometimes. The norm though for 01-02 is around 305-310. The 97(vette)-00 is around 300+/-. But there are the few that put down 315, probably LS6 blocks on most, because of the better oiling, im not sure. That point still hasnt been tested.

ORIGINAL: JD1969

Not the 01-02 cars, average for these is 300-315 rwhp.

I guess you probably know more about it than I do; I never dynoed mine. My gal and I went to dyno our Camaros and I was gonna do one run stock, one with the lid, and one with the cutout open but it was broken when we got there.:( Now that I have longtubes and a catless Y-pipe I'll really never be able to do it stock, so I'll never know what it would have put down.

ORIGINAL: blown32v

Not to leave the corvettes out,they are just lighter,with a better aero package and GM gets a little more hp out of the cam.

True about weight being the straight-line performance difference, but I believe the cam specs are identical.

i always thought the vettes had a little bigger cam also

What do u think the reason for the hp power difference is???[corvettes vs other ls1s]Not the cost,or the wieght,or the looks.....GM,as i said. tunes the engines for more power.This might include the internals of the engine and how it performs.Do u know what gives the ls1 gtos 350 hp???Just some questions to your reply tommyv8..Do u also know cams can be tuned for more or less power??

Here is a detailed list of Cams that came with the cars.

Corvette LS1
97-99 Duration 199int/207exh Lift .472int/.479exh Lobe 117
00 Duration 198int/209exh Lift .500int/.500exh Lobe 115.5
01-03 Duration 198int/207exh Lift .467int/.479exh Lobe 116

F-Body
98-00 Duration 198int/209exh Lift .500int/.500exh Lobe 119.5
01-02 Duration 196int/207exh Lift .467int/.479exh Lobe 116

So as you can see there has been basically very small differences in cams. The 01-02 is basically the same.

To answer some of your question 32valve. The vettes dont make more hp. There are equal to the F-bodies and sometimes actually make less power, because the independant rear suspension robs some hps. The differences are actually just weight. F-bodies are only about .2 behind the vettes on the 1/4 with everything being equal(not including ZO6's).
The GTOs rated at 350hp where jsut actually given the proper rating. The F-bodies where underrated by about 30hp. They should have been rated at 350 also. The speculation is that the vette owners would get pissed and GM would lose some long time vette guys. Dont know what made them change there minds with rating the GTO correctly. Maybe they discovered it wouldnt matter.

Also i just wanted to let you guys know that LS1tech just opened up a new Forum site for the mustang. Here is a link to it, you should go and check it out.

www.HighTechMustang.com

Good info, Pewter.:D

ORIGINAL: blown32v

What do u think the reason for the hp power difference is???[corvettes vs other ls1s]Not the cost,or the wieght,or the looks.....GM,as i said. tunes the engines for more power.This might include the internals of the engine and how it performs.Do u know what gives the ls1 gtos 350 hp???Just some questions to your reply tommyv8..Do u also know cams can be tuned for more or less power??


The reason is very simple. Spend $50k on a 350hp Vette, or $25k on a new f-body with 350hp. That doesn't look very good. Hence the reason they're rated lower than the Vette. Mine put down 325rwhp with exhaust/drop-in k&n. It's the slowest year made and was dyno'd with the LS1 intake and heat soaked like a SOB. :)

Goes back and see this was already answered....DOH!

Wow, some great info up there! Timeline was cool.

Try to do my best to inform.

ORIGINAL: Pewterwssicc

Here is a detailed list of Cams that came with the cars.

F-Body
98-00 Duration 198int/209exh Lift .500int/.500exh Lobe 119.5

Is the lsa a typo or is it really 119

Nope no typo, it was really 119 during those years.

I see.....I was going on the fact that i thought i read somewhere,that GM was tuning 5 more hp or something for 2000 and up.Im not sure exactly though.And yes,i fully acknowledge your info as true.
ORIGINAL: Pewterwssicc

Here is a detailed list of Cams that came with the cars.

Corvette LS1
97-99 Duration 199int/207exh Lift .472int/.479exh Lobe 117
00 Duration 198int/209exh Lift .500int/.500exh Lobe 115.5
01-03 Duration 198int/207exh Lift .467int/.479exh Lobe 116

F-Body
98-00 Duration 198int/209exh Lift .500int/.500exh Lobe 119.5
01-02 Duration 196int/207exh Lift .467int/.479exh Lobe 116

So as you can see there has been basically very small differences in cams. The 01-02 is basically the same.

To answer some of your question 32valve. The vettes dont make more hp. There are equal to the F-bodies and sometimes actually make less power, because the independant rear suspension robs some hps. The differences are actually just weight. F-bodies are only about .2 behind the vettes on the 1/4 with everything being equal(not including ZO6's).
The GTOs rated at 350hp where jsut actually given the proper rating. The F-bodies where underrated by about 30hp. They should have been rated at 350 also. The speculation is that the vette owners would get pissed and GM would lose some long time vette guys. Dont know what made them change there minds with rating the GTO correctly. Maybe they discovered it wouldnt matter.

Also i just wanted to let you guys know that LS1tech just opened up a new Forum site for the mustang. Here is a link to it, you should go and check it out.

www.HighTechMustang.com

Interesting Information...

It helps me gauge the LSx and its capabilities;)

Is it me or did we miss the power of the 2000 Cobra R in the same year of the LS1/LS6?
Being that it is NA, lighter weight, and makes more power than a stock 03/04 Cobra...does anyone know the stats on its level?
330ci 4V Right?

I can't remember its stock capabilities....

High 12's in a factory built race car.

Holy sh..!!I dont mean to hijack but,is this predator03[dark grey]...as in streetfire!?Ive been watching those vids before i ever owned a cobra!!!
ORIGINAL: Predator03

Interesting Information...

It helps me gauge the LSx and its capabilities;)

Is it me or did we miss the power of the 2000 Cobra R in the same year of the LS1/LS6?
Being that it is NA, lighter weight, and makes more power than a stock 03/04 Cobra...does anyone know the stats on its level?
330ci 4V Right?

I can't remember its stock capabilities....

The Cobra R was a very impressive machine. However, it was too expensive for the average Joe to go out and buy one. The average Joe could easily buy an LS1 F-body and be almost as fast (low 13's, possible high 12's with slick gear-banging). The regular Cobra was a lot cheaper and not exactly slow, either.

I LOVE GEN III motors, my MS3 is getting installed right now and im waiting for my computer to come back from Texas Speed.

ORIGINAL: 2001LS1Z

I LOVE GEN III motors, my MS3 is getting installed right now and im waiting for my computer to come back from Texas Speed.


That's the cam I run.

Does anybody know how i would do against an ls1. I have had the chance to race one with my nitrous in.???

It should be a good run assuming the LS1 is stock and you can get your car to hook.

ok thanx jd

ORIGINAL: JD1969

assuming the LS1 is stock

Where do you find something like that? :D





About the Cobra R thing, I remember when R&T tested the Z06, Cobra R, and ACR Viper, they mentioned that the Cobra dynoed 385!

Anyone know if that's true? Were they really that underrated? Make sense to me when I think about it. The terminator Cobras dyno 360's or so, and most magazines comment that they're a little weaker in the mid - top range than the R.

I have seen in person twice and have read and heard all over the least those ls1 put down is 315rwhp with open manifolds, and the hood open so he is probally right the engine does produce around 370 the way it is(just less restricted). That would be a 60-65hp gain over the stats from just removing a part(y pipe). I haven't seen another car do such a thing.

ORIGINAL: OICW

About the Cobra R thing, I remember when R&T tested the Z06, Cobra R, and ACR Viper, they mentioned that the Cobra dynoed 385!

Anyone know if that's true? Were they really that underrated? Make sense to me when I think about it. The terminator Cobras dyno 360's or so, and most magazines comment that they're a little weaker in the mid - top range than the R.


I'm pretty sure that is crank hp, not wheel. Is that the same article where they only mustered like a 13.5 out of the Cobra R?

The Cobra R is rated at 385 at the crank; I don't know if they are underrated or not, so I dunno what one would put down at the wheels.
As for 315 being the least hp an LS1 will put down with open manifolds, that may or not be true. Completely stock (closed exhaust) they routinely put down 300-305 depending on the dyno, so eliminating the crappy flatworm Y-pipe and huge restrictive stock muffler should give a fairly decent power increase I would think. 10 hp sounds reasonable, I dunno about 15.

Cobra R from SVT site:

"The 2000 SVT Mustang Cobra R debuted as the fastest factory Mustang ever produced. Its SVT-developed, naturally aspirated 5.4-liter V8 produced 385 horsepower, good for 0-60 mph in 4.7 seconds, the quarter-mile in 13.2 and a 170-mph top speed. As a true, lightweight R-model, it also had track-capable brakes, able to make a full stop from 60 mph in just 127 feet. Like all SVT Cobra Rs before it, the 2000 R came stripped of any stock feature not needed for track use or that would add excess weight."

Basic Specs
Compression ratio: 9.60:1
Bore x stroke 90.2mm x 105.8mm
Displacement: 5.4 liter/330 cid
Horsepower: 385 hp @ 6250 rpm
Torque: 385 lbs.-ft. @ 4250 rpm

The 2000 R was also stripped of un-needed every-day crap. No rear seats, radio, AC, etc.
Hope this helps in anyway.

Yea, like I said, a high 12 second race car...with a good driver. :D

Sooo, the Cobra R runs similar times than a fully loaded LS1 F-body, but with no amenities and a higher price tag?
Rock on, Ford.

While browsing I think I saw someone mention the '00 Cobra R had more power than the '03-'04 models- that being untrue. The '03-'04 Cobra's have a tad bit more power, and a few guys at the local strip have ran mid-to-high 12's at 112-113 when their cars were stockers. The N/A 2000 wouldn't be able to keep up with one on the strip. And as far as the Cobra being underrated, try OVERRATED!

ORIGINAL: freaklt1z28

The N/A 2000 wouldn't be able to keep up with one on the strip. And as far as the Cobra being underrated, try OVERRATED!



You're thinking of the 99 Cobra. The 2000 Cobra R is something entirely different; it's a full out track machine. The last thing on the desginers' minds was drag racing.



I don't know the exact month or even year of that article (I'm assuming 1999, but could be 2000), but it did have a Vette and Viper in there. And yes, I realize the R was rated at 385 hp, but in the article it either dynoed 380 or 385, and I remember that quote from the editors "either the Cobra R is got an extremely efficient driveline or the Ford guys are trying to hide something".

Actually I'm thinking of a 2000 Cobra R. And still the '03-'04 Cobras, though slightly, technically are rated higher (385 TO 390), and even though the purpose of the car was course racing, there's always going to be straightline acceleration in the minds of the makers of a sports car! I was just comparing the two's straightline performance because they are so close in power ratings, that's all.

ORIGINAL: freaklt1z28

While browsing I think I saw someone mention the '00 Cobra R had more power than the '03-'04 models- that being untrue. The '03-'04 Cobra's have a tad bit more power, and a few guys at the local strip have ran mid-to-high 12's at 112-113 when their cars were stockers. The N/A 2000 wouldn't be able to keep up with one on the strip. And as far as the Cobra being underrated, try OVERRATED!

Basically, your saying my cobra that is 390 to the fly, is actually over rated, and is more like 370ish to the fly? Go play in traffic kid...

Hisss, I believe he was referring to the 2000 Cobra R as being overrated. Everyone knows of the power that the blown Cobras make.

ORIGINAL: TommyV8

Hisss, I believe he was referring to the 2000 Cobra R as being overrated. Everyone knows of the power that the blown Cobras make.

Then I retract my previous statement :D

ORIGINAL: TommyV8

Hisss, I believe he was referring to the 2000 Cobra R as being overrated. Everyone knows of the power that the blown Cobras make.


Well of course, everyone knows that. They just don't make any useable horsepower.




....




[8D]

ORIGINAL: Hisss04Cobra

[
Basically, your saying my cobra that is 390 to the fly, is actually over rated, and is more like 370ish to the fly? Go play in traffic kid...
[/quote]


Actually Hisss I wasn't speaking upon your particular model, the '03-'04 Cobra. In my opinion the 2000 Cobra R could be somewhat overrated based on the fact it is rated at 385 and runs quarter-mile times similar to a 325hp LS1, but technically it is a car built for the road course, not the drag strip. As for the '03-'04s, I have two friends that own them, both '03's, and they both ran 12's at between 111-113 BEFORE their cars were modified. Trust me, I would be the last person to say those cars are underrated. Those guys forced me out of my element and made me purchase a Compucar wet kit!

ORIGINAL: freaklt1z28


Actually Hisss I wasn't speaking upon your particular model, the '03-'04 Cobra. In my opinion the 2000 Cobra R could be somewhat overrated based on the fact it is rated at 385 and runs quarter-mile times similar to a 325hp LS1, but technically it is a car built for the road course, not the drag strip. As for the '03-'04s, I have two friends that own them, both '03's, and they both ran 12's at between 111-113 BEFORE their cars were modified. Trust me, I would be the last person to say those cars are underrated. Those guys forced me out of my element and made me purchase a Compucar wet kit!


I believe when they speak of underated and overated.......they're not talking about the hype/rep of the car. They're talking about what the automaker lists as the rated bhp for the car. Someone who says the 03/04 Cobras are underrated is just saying that Ford listed the official stock hp for those cars as "less" than what it actually is. An overrated car would have less bhp than what the carmaker listed it as........thus it's listed stock bhp is "overrated".
The whole thing of underrating the bhp on performance cars has been around since the golden age of the muscle car. It's a marketing ploy that helps ppl who want big hp cars avoid big insurance premiums. lol

My thought on the Cobra R (if in fact it was only pulling 13's in the quarter) are that it must have been highly overrated. There are lots of road course cars out there that are designed just for the road course and still kick some ass at the drag strip at the same time. I understand that super hard front and back springs and some of the other road course stuff can make it a hard car to launch. But just getting into the 13's with what was said to be making 385rwhp(as OICW stated)is very bad. Now if it was just 385 crank, then it should be making around 335rwhp or so(which sounds more likely to me). Then i can see it only getting low 13's. I still think it should perform better than that, being as its a stripper car, but i would think that 13's would be because its a mag test or manufacturer quote, it could probably actually do more like high 12's. Still too much money for a high 12 second car. Again keep in mind though, it was made for the road course, so if we dont know how it performs there, it is hard to estimate its value to performance enthusiasts that actually only care about performance and priding.

This is the only place i could think of asking this... Is it true that Camaro's cant have an H/X pipe/true duals?

It was true up until about two or three years ago. There where only a couple of home made true duals made and no product available to us. But now there a a couple of true dual products you can purchase for an LS1. I think GMMG makes one of the more popular ones.

I run true duals with an x-pipe and longtubes.

should have read this thread before speaking

Don't feel bad man, that's why this thread is here. You're nowhere near being the first to do what you did. Hence the reason this is stickied at the top. Hopefully others will see it.

crazy though in 2002 last year of the camaro it made 350 compared to a similarly priced GT at 260....just amazing

Whats the deal with 02-04 Z06's??????????

What information are you looking for. They are lighter than the original vette, come with 405hp, have a different block, heads, and cam than an LS1. The mufflers are made of titanium to cut weight. They have closer gears in the tranny, which equate to having around 3.90's in the rear. Stock they are an easy 12.4@ around 116 and some crazy good drivers have gotten 11's with them bone stock. Any other questions?

ORIGINAL: Pewterwssicc

What information are you looking for. They are lighter than the original vette, come with 405hp, have a different block, heads, and cam than an LS1. The mufflers are made of titanium to cut weight. They have closer gears in the tranny, which equate to having around 3.90's in the rear. Stock they are an easy 12.4@ around 116 and some crazy good drivers have gotten 11's with them bone stock. Any other questions?
you hit the nail on the head

ORIGINAL: Pewterwssicc

What information are you looking for. They are lighter than the original vette, come with 405hp, have a different block, heads, and cam than an LS1. The mufflers are made of titanium to cut weight. They have closer gears in the tranny, which equate to having around 3.90's in the rear. Stock they are an easy 12.4@ around 116 and some crazy good drivers have gotten 11's with them bone stock. Any other questions?


Whats an Ellis Juan????[8D]

Do you mean LS1, please tell me your not serious, please.

He's not...

ORIGINAL: Pewterwssicc

What information are you looking for. They are lighter than the original vette, come with 405hp, have a different block, heads, and cam than an LS1. The mufflers are made of titanium to cut weight. They have closer gears in the tranny, which equate to having around 3.90's in the rear. Stock they are an easy 12.4@ around 116 and some crazy good drivers have gotten 11's with them bone stock. Any other questions?


Couldn't have said it better myself Pewter,

Just trying to keep them stang guys informed on what just passed them, lol.

ORIGINAL: Pewterwssicc

Just trying to keep them stang guys informed on what just passed them, lol.
dont get do happy about your Ls1 i dug up an old MMFF article entitled "331 ways to waste an LS1" but from the factory with a head and cam swap 500hp, no small block ford can ever do that

ORIGINAL: Pewterwssicc

Do you mean LS1, please tell me your not serious, please.


Just a joke:D.. I think I have an idea of what an LS1 is[8D]...

ORIGINAL: jersey98gt

dont get do happy about your Ls1 i dug up an old MMFF article entitled "331 ways to waste an LS1" but from the factory with a head and cam swap 500hp, no small block ford can ever do that


Ya know, it's weird. I've had several of my buddies go to a 331, and only one them outruns my car, this is all motor for motor of course. His car is also gutted to hell and back and pulls 1.5 short times. He still traps about what I trap on motor. I think I'm gonna go search for that article and see what they did to a 331 to make it run so well, unless they were running a stock LS1...?

Oh yea, his has trickflow heads/intake, some sort of custom grind cam, and of course, full exhaust.

ORIGINAL: 98LS1

ORIGINAL: jersey98gt

dont get do happy about your Ls1 i dug up an old MMFF article entitled "331 ways to waste an LS1" but from the factory with a head and cam swap 500hp, no small block ford can ever do that


Ya know, it's weird. I've had several of my buddies go to a 331, and only one them outruns my car, this is all motor for motor of course. His car is also gutted to hell and back and pulls 1.5 short times. He still traps about what I trap on motor. I think I'm gonna go search for that article and see what they did to a 331 to make it run so well, unless they were running a stock LS1...?

Oh yea, his has trickflow heads/intake, some sort of custom grind cam, and of course, full exhaust.




That article involved a LOT! of boost. Stop acting like it was an article about motor/motor. I read it. IIRC they O-ringed the dang block.

Yeah, a lot of ppl I know with 5.0's and 331/347 are not able to beat a stock 6-speed LS1 and retain driveability and good street manners/use pump gas. I finally am giving in to Ellis Juan.

l have been saying everyone on this web site but a moderator came out of nowhere and locked the thread.. l guess he couldnt handle the truth.. anyways..

l have been telling everyone..... LS1 is LS1.. any LS1 can beat any LS1. PERIOD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

ORIGINAL: doodad

l have been saying everyone on this web site but a moderator came out of nowhere and locked the thread.. l guess he couldnt handle the truth.. anyways..

l have been telling everyone..... LS1 is LS1.. any LS1 can beat any LS1. PERIOD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



A C5 with a 6-speed would pull a Vert' Trans Am with a A4 and 2.73's BUT, within reason, you are pretty right on.

ORIGINAL: stanger88


ORIGINAL: doodad

l have been saying everyone on this web site but a moderator came out of nowhere and locked the thread.. l guess he couldnt handle the truth.. anyways..

l have been telling everyone..... LS1 is LS1.. any LS1 can beat any LS1. PERIOD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



A C5 with a 6-speed would pull a Vert' Trans Am with a A4 and 2.73's BUT, within reason, you are pretty right on.



A C5 coupe 6-speed will pull on any other LS1 vehicle...........stock for stock with equal drivers.....

im no expert on the LS1. . .

but i did watch a Horsepower TV show where they discribed the power differences in the Z28 and SS, and the transam and WS6,

what it said was that SLP added a different air intake and the exhaust was slightly different. . .

is this correct? is this the reason for more PAWR?? I have personally thought the SS's were faster than the Z28's for as long as i can remember.

Ever since I saw this show, this has been my conseption.

ORIGINAL: Black06GT40324

im no expert on the LS1. . .

but i did watch a Horsepower TV show where they discribed the power differences in the Z28 and SS, and the transam and WS6,

what it said was that SLP added a different air intake and the exhaust was slightly different. . .

is this correct? is this the reason for more PAWR?? I have personally thought the SS's were faster than the Z28's for as long as i can remember.

Ever since I saw this show, this has been my conseption.

The intake and exhaust really did not add much HP, at least not enough that I would call an SS faster than Z/28. I put these cars on dynos all the time, this is coming from my first hand experiance as well as what I have seen at the track.

so pretty much if you dont have a Cobra, dont mess with an LSx
...right?[sm=signs007.gif]

ORIGINAL: tommy2273boy

so pretty much if you dont have a Cobra, dont mess with an LSx
...right?[sm=signs007.gif]


well, i hand them their a$$ all the time, but am not stock though. . .

so, if your stock, you better hope they can't drive too well or they're auto, if your in a 3V anyway. . .

with your times you had better hope they are stock as well;)

ORIGINAL: JD1969

with your times you had better hope they are stock as well;)



He traps slower than all the LS1s I have seen at our track that were stock (most were 105, one was a high 104 but it was a 'vert). But his ET is pretty good. It would take a decent driver in a strong car to pull his ET. His trap isnt very special though.

yes what you have would beat a stock LS1 and prolly stock goat...
do you hand them thier " " at the track or in the street...prolly better chance on the road. as far as I know, the LS1 rode in, has not much top-end.

nothing to brag about, but in my link is his car...

ORIGINAL: Black06GT40324

so, if your stock, you better hope they can't drive too well or they're auto, if your in a 3V anyway. . .

wait a second, are you busting on me?!?![>:]

ORIGINAL: tommy2273boy


ORIGINAL: Black06GT40324

so, if your stock, you better hope they can't drive too well or they're auto, if your in a 3V anyway. . .

wait a second, are you busting on me?!?![>:]



Auto or 6-speed, LS1 is an LS1. GM builds a pretty good auto...

ORIGINAL: JD1969

with your times you had better hope they are stock as well;)


well, my times are on the stock tires at the stock 35lbs of pressure, exactly the same as what i would be on the street, thats why i did it that way. . .

i pull 1.9's on my stock tires btw, and i hook the same track or street. . . thats why i hand most of the camaro's their a$$, i have a vid if you like to see, one of me beating a SS that ran 12.6's on nitto's @ the track, but, on the street, he didn't have the nittos, and thats why he lost, thats why i run the same tires at the track as i would on the street ;)


ps. and that SS trapped 110 on nittos

ORIGINAL: tommy2273boy

as far as I know, the LS1 rode in, has not much top-end.

aaaahahahahahha...that coming from a terminator owner I can see it making sense...but from you and your CAI stang? LS1's are known for pulling all the way to redline dude

ORIGINAL: tommy2273boy

yes what you have would beat a stock LS1 and prolly stock goat...
do you hand them thier " " at the track or in the street...prolly better chance on the road. as far as I know, the LS1 rode in, has not much top-end.


both. . .

more on the street though, not too many stock camaro's or just bolt on camaros at the track ;)

ORIGINAL: tommy2273boy

so pretty much if you dont have a Cobra, dont mess with an LSx
...right?[sm=signs007.gif]

5-speed Mach 1s and 05-06 GTs are a good match for an LS1 F-body.

ORIGINAL: tommy2273boy

the LS1 rode in, has not much top-end.

I trapped 105.79 bone stock with an automatic and 2.73 gears. 6-speeds trap higher. I'd say that Ellis pulls pretty well on the big end.;)

So much disinformation :(

LS1= TOP END SICKNESS!!!
Auto or 6-speed=Both will kick your ass unless you are 05+ GT, Cobra(03-04), or Mach1
LS1's can hook too, my friend pulled a 1.9 in his 98 WS6 M6 car with the factory stock Goodyears. That 60' led to a 12.9@107 BONE STOCK.

Yeah, all LS1's have the power to trap well. It's the 60 ft times that make the difference between running a 12.9 when stock or a 13.1 or so, which is more common. 1.9 on stock tires is hard to do, especially with a 6-speed; 2.1 or so is the norm. My g/f ran a 13.36 with a car just like mine because she managed a 2.0 60 ft compared to my 2.11.

ORIGINAL: TommyV8

Yeah, all LS1's have the power to trap well. It's the 60 ft times that make the difference between running a 12.9 when stock or a 13.1 or so, which is more common. 1.9 on stock tires is hard to do, especially with a 6-speed; 2.1 or so is the norm. My g/f ran a 13.36 with a car just like mine because she managed a 2.0 60 ft compared to my 2.11.


Yep, right on, but my friend can DRIVE : ) (unlike me, who managed a 2.15 at best in my 5.0 on street tires)

ORIGINAL: stanger88


ORIGINAL: TommyV8

Yeah, all LS1's have the power to trap well. It's the 60 ft times that make the difference between running a 12.9 when stock or a 13.1 or so, which is more common. 1.9 on stock tires is hard to do, especially with a 6-speed; 2.1 or so is the norm. My g/f ran a 13.36 with a car just like mine because she managed a 2.0 60 ft compared to my 2.11.


Yep, right on, but my friend can DRIVE : ) (unlike me, who managed a 2.15 at best in my 5.0 on street tires)


I guess C5's don't pull hard up top because of that ****ty LS1........:eek:

ORIGINAL: Black06GT40324
well, my times are on the stock tires at the stock 35lbs of pressure, exactly the same as what i would be on the street, thats why i did it that way. . .

i pull 1.9's on my stock tires btw, and i hook the same track or street. . . thats why i hand most of the camaro's their a$$, i have a vid if you like to see, one of me beating a SS that ran 12.6's on nitto's @ the track, but, on the street, he didn't have the nittos, and thats why he lost, thats why i run the same tires at the track as i would on the street ;)


ps. and that SS trapped 110 on nittos



That's the way I run at the track as well, well until I got these hur slicks, but that's the way I used to do it. Run it just like I was on the street. I think it's funny to watch guys swap wheels/tires just to run Nitto's.....I run them all the time, street or strip.

Are you auto? I was pulling 1.9x's with my car when it was bone stock. Only went to the track once when it was stock though. :D Manuals would have a harder time pulling that good of a short time on street tires.

ORIGINAL: 98LS1


ORIGINAL: Black06GT40324
well, my times are on the stock tires at the stock 35lbs of pressure, exactly the same as what i would be on the street, thats why i did it that way. . .

i pull 1.9's on my stock tires btw, and i hook the same track or street. . . thats why i hand most of the camaro's their a$$, i have a vid if you like to see, one of me beating a SS that ran 12.6's on nitto's @ the track, but, on the street, he didn't have the nittos, and thats why he lost, thats why i run the same tires at the track as i would on the street ;)


ps. and that SS trapped 110 on nittos



That's the way I run at the track as well, well until I got these hur slicks, but that's the way I used to do it. Run it just like I was on the street. I think it's funny to watch guys swap wheels/tires just to run Nitto's.....I run them all the time, street or strip.

Are you auto? I was pulling 1.9x's with my car when it was bone stock. Only went to the track once when it was stock though. :D Manuals would have a harder time pulling that good of a short time on street tires.



I'm manual. . .

i've had some practice though ;)

VistaBlue06 apparently is the manual god in the new stangs, he pulls 1.7's on stock tires [:o]

i don't understand how he does it, but he has. . . i think he goes to a very well prep'd track though

Wow looks like some things never change here.

ford-v-chevy show down
Brewer's Speedway 6728 Reedy Branch Road Rocky Mount, NC 27803
Saturday, September 16th
Gates Open at 3 pm Test Tune begins at 5 pm Cruz-in Car Show 3 pm to 6 pm Races Begin at 8 pm
Gate Admission $5.00
CLASSES
PRO STREET Bracket - $25.00 Entry Car Only
PRO Bracket - $40.00 Entry Car Only
Purse based on number of entries in each Class Bracket Classes are open to all Make/Models
Outlaw 10 1/2 Street Class also w/a $ Purse
Street Heads Up Pro Heads Up
Trophies to 1* and 2nd place in each Class $10.00 Entry Car Only
FORD/CHEVY SHOW DOWN
Grudge Racing- 50/50 Drawing Event T-Shirts - Swap Meet Area
Helmets Required for all Racers Racers - No alcoholic beverages
Questions/Directions Contact: Phone - (252) 446-2631 Twistedstallions.com
Test/Tune - $10.00 Car Only - Open to all Make/Models
Sept. 16th. ford/chevy show down for more info. on this event go to twistedstallions.com

ORIGINAL: vettkiller

ford-v-chevy show down
Brewer's Speedway 6728 Reedy Branch Road Rocky Mount, NC 27803
Saturday, September 16th
Gates Open at 3 pm Test Tune begins at 5 pm Cruz-in Car Show 3 pm to 6 pm Races Begin at 8 pm
Gate Admission $5.00
CLASSES
PRO STREET Bracket - $25.00 Entry Car Only
PRO Bracket - $40.00 Entry Car Only
Purse based on number of entries in each Class Bracket Classes are open to all Make/Models
Outlaw 10 1/2 Street Class also w/a $ Purse
Street Heads Up Pro Heads Up
Trophies to 1* and 2nd place in each Class $10.00 Entry Car Only
FORD/CHEVY SHOW DOWN
Grudge Racing- 50/50 Drawing Event T-Shirts - Swap Meet Area
Helmets Required for all Racers Racers - No alcoholic beverages
Questions/Directions Contact: Phone - (252) 446-2631 Twistedstallions.com
Test/Tune - $10.00 Car Only - Open to all Make/Models
Sept. 16th. ford/chevy show down for more info. on this event go to twistedstallions.com



I always hated things titled like that b/c its not really Blue Oval vs. Bow Tie. Its more like Mechanic vs. Mechanic and Wallet vs. Wallet. Hell, my friend had an 11 second civic that was a DD and cost less than a used 99-04 GT built. Brand doesn't matter once you get a competent mechanic/mean wallet behind something NEARLY as much.

I have an LS1, but in a 04 GTO, with the 6 speed...I can give you some insight to what mine has done. I beat a 06-07 Mustang GT (dont know which year, didn't even have plates yet), from a 10MPH roll...I do have a Corsa exhaust system which supposedly flows 85% better than stock, so Im assuming Im at about 365HP? By the time I shifted to 2nd my nose was approx 3 feet in front of his, and when we slowed down for the next light (maybe 170 feet) my back bumper was at his front. Maybe I just outdrove him, or maybe my car was just plain faster, I don't know, but like I said this is just another stand point on the LS1 discussion. I hear people talk all the time about getting a "tune"...how much horsepower can this get me?

Firehawks (4th gens) were rated at 345 HP due to the "High flow induction package" and larger exhaust According to SLP. But they were all Formulas which were the lighter than the T/A, and Firebirds. But they also had suspension options not available on other Fbodies so they generally do better at the track with the added breathing and better suspensions. As far as the Corvettes 350hp vs the 325/315 in the Fbodies the main difference is the exhaust more than anything else. Vette exhausts flow much better than F Bodies. All SS's and WS6's came loaded with power everything and leather hence they weigh more than Z28's and Firebirds so that gives up the neglagable "Ram Air" and better muffler. Other than that and the visual differences the main difference in the SS/WS6 and the Z28/Firebirds are the shocks. All SS's and WS6's recieved DeCarbon (orange colored) shocks where just a handful of others recieved them somehow (mine had them).

Hence manual unloaded Z's and Firebirds are equal if not better in the 1/4 from my experience (I'm in the west TN F-Body association and I know/see/ride/driven many of them). My stripper Z with an Auto and 2.73's will match most of the SS's around here and beat quite a few. If I run up against an auto SS they are toast. I've never seen an Auto WS6 but there might be a few out there. I know there are auto SS's 2 friends at work have one I've beaten them both when I was stock. The biggest difference in LS1's will depend on how they are optioned out from the track times I've seen down here. And all LS1's recieved the LS6 intake after 2000.

One guy in my club has a Stripper Z that is a stick with every bolt on made and can hit 11's with DR's and 4.10's. I think his last dyno was 343 to the wheels. Mine trapped high 104's stock (Memphis humidity sux and I think is just as bad if not worse than high elevations) and I am trapping high 106's and low 107's depending on how much I spin (the more I spin out the hole so far have been my higher trap speeds) and I have relatively smallish bolt on list as far as actual power enhancement goes but have dismal 2.02 (best) 60' and traction limited 13.2's and 3's.

One thing I fing peculiar is that the STS turbo kits produce more HP on a stock LS1 than a Stock LS2 according to their figures. Around here Mach 1's and the new GT's are a drivers race VS LS1's given same drivetrain (auto vs auto or stick vs stick) and of course the blown bandits mop up if they hook (motorsports Test and tune nights suck as noone seems to be able to hook here). Auto vettes suck compared to Fbodies. Around here they usually do no better than high 13's. GTO's around here are mid/low 13's stock for the LS2 and High 13's low 14's from what I've seen. And I only know a couple of Fbodies run 12's most are low to mid 13's as are the new GT's and Mach's. And LS1's do more damage up top than down low anyday anywhere.

Your "tune" will depend on mods and method. You'd probably see 10-15 hp with handhelds and 15-25 or more with LS1 Edit or HP Tuners. A few locals around here gained upwards of 40 but they already had cams headers and such so were able to benefit from better breathing. A friend of mine got 40 hp more after having his car dyno tuned over the diablo sport tune provided to him from texas speed to match his heads/cam.

ORIGINAL: slims00ls1z28

Firehawks (4th gens) were rated at 345 HP due to the "High flow induction package" and larger exhaust According to SLP. But they were all Formulas not true which were the lighter than the T/A, and Firebirds. But they also had suspension options not available on other Fbodies so they generally do better at the track with the added breathing and better suspensions. As far as the Corvettes 350hp vs the 325/315 in the Fbodies the main difference is the exhaust more than anything else. Vette exhausts flow much better than F Bodies. All SS's and WS6's came loaded with power everything and leather hence they weigh more than Z28's and Firebirds so that gives up the neglagable "Ram Air" and better muffler. Other than that and the visual differences the main difference in the SS/WS6 and the Z28/Firebirds are the shocks. All SS's and WS6's recieved DeCarbon (orange colored) shocks where just a handful of others recieved them somehow (mine had them).

Hence manual unloaded Z's and Firebirds are equal if not better in the 1/4 from my experience (I'm in the west TN F-Body association and I know/see/ride/driven many of them). My stripper Z with an Auto and 2.73's will match most of the SS's around here and beat quite a few. If I run up against an auto SS they are toast. I've never seen an Auto WS6 but there might be a few out there. I know there are auto SS's 2 friends at work have one I've beaten them both when I was stock. The biggest difference in LS1's will depend on how they are optioned out from the track times I've seen down here. And all LS1's recieved the LS6 intake after 2000.

One guy in my club has a Stripper Z that is a stick with every bolt on made and can hit 11's with DR's and 4.10's. I think his last dyno was 343 to the wheels. Mine trapped high 104's stock (Memphis humidity sux and I think is just as bad if not worse than high elevations) and I am trapping high 106's and low 107's depending on how much I spin (the more I spin out the hole so far have been my higher trap speeds) and I have relatively smallish bolt on list as far as actual power enhancement goes but have dismal 2.02 (best) 60' and traction limited 13.2's and 3's.

One thing I fing peculiar is that the STS turbo kits produce more HP on a stock LS1 than a Stock LS2 according to their figures. Around here Mach 1's and the new GT's are a drivers race VS LS1's given same drivetrain (auto vs auto or stick vs stick) and of course the blown bandits mop up if they hook (motorsports Test and tune nights suck as noone seems to be able to hook here). Auto vettes suck compared to Fbodies. Around here they usually do no better than high 13's. GTO's around here are mid/low 13's stock for the LS2 and High 13's low 14's from what I've seen. And I only know a couple of Fbodies run 12's most are low to mid 13's as are the new GT's and Mach's. And LS1's do more damage up top than down low anyday anywhere.

Maybe so I just think it was a matter of underrating the Z28 and firebird to make more expensive packages sell. I don't know what difference the "high flow induction package" makes however go to any firehawk registry (not forum or club) and they will tell you differently. It's funny to me how my car was rated at 315 from the factory yet the same crate motor (cam heads etc is rated at 345 all day long.

From all I've heard it looks like GM just got a bit lazy and played a funny numbers game with the different LS1 F-bodies to make ppl feel justified in spending the extra money for the "higher end" models. I know they did offer some minor performance improvements via exhaust and suspension.....but not enough to justify some of the markups I used to see. Back in 2000 I went with my best friend to a dealership to look at the Camaros and they had the Z's stickered at 23K and an SS stickered at 30K. My buddy (despite being diehard GM) didn't realize the small differences between the two models and refused to settle for the Z28 (thinking that the SS must be leaps and bounds faster). Now he kicks himself because they were close to being the same in performance, if not the exact same. Too bad now he can't afford even a used one.:eek:

Live and learn...

ORIGINAL: ThisBlood147

From all I've heard it looks like GM just got a bit lazy and played a funny numbers game with the different LS1 F-bodies to make ppl feel justified in spending the extra money for the "higher end" models. I know they did offer some minor performance improvements via exhaust and suspension.....but not enough to justify some of the markups I used to see. Back in 2000 I went with my best friend to a dealership to look at the Camaros and they had the Z's stickered at 23K and an SS stickered at 30K. My buddy (despite being diehard GM) didn't realize the small differences between the two models and refused to settle for the Z28 (thinking that the SS must be leaps and bounds faster). Now he kicks himself because they were close to being the same in performance, if not the exact same. Too bad now he can't afford even a used one.:eek:

Live and learn...



Thats like saying a F150 XL is just as good as an F150 Lariat becuase they tow the same. The SS has leather, better sound, power everything, more exclusivity, ect. ect. ect. For 23K that Z must have been an auto with cloth.

Granted, I belive the fastest BONE STOCK F-body was a 98 Z28 stripper 6-speed. Ran 12.8X or something.

I have an SS with no leather. They were able to be optioned pretty much anyway a Z was.

ORIGINAL: JD1969

I have an SS with no leather. They were able to be optioned pretty much anyway a Z was.



Not a $30,000 SS and not a $23,000 Z28...

Well it wasn't because of interior options or looks that my friend held off on getting a Z over an SS........he believed the SS was a significantly faster car. I, not knowing much about them myself at the time, thought the same. Of course, I wasn't looking to by one either.;) Because I research the hell out of a car before I go shopping for one.

So I'm not saying there may not have been a significant amount of options to warrant some of the higher price......but the higher price coupled with the mystique that the SS would murder a Z28 stock for stock is what duped alot of ppl like my friend. Maybe GM was coddling the Corvette guys with the dodgy HP ratings..........or they felt they were helping ppl with getting reasonable insurance......but they really did mislead alot of ppl about the performance differences (or lack thereof) between some of their LS1 F-body models.

I hear what you are saying, but I consider that to be the fault of the buyer. It's not like GM is the only one to ever mess with HP ratings, I remember a certain year Cobra that Ford overrated yet made way less power. We (LS1 guys) knew about the BS ratings right away.

ORIGINAL: slims00ls1z28


My stripper Z with an Auto and 2.73's will match most of the SS's around here and beat quite a few. If I run up against an auto SS they are toast. I've never seen an Auto WS6 but there might be a few out there.

Mine trapped high 104's stock (Memphis humidity sux and I think is just as bad if not worse than high elevations) and I am trapping high 106's and low 107's depending on how much I spin (the more I spin out the hole so far have been my higher trap speeds) and I have relatively smallish bolt on list as far as actual power enhancement goes but have dismal 2.02 (best) 60' and traction limited 13.2's and 3's.


Auto vettes suck compared to Fbodies.

My 2.73-geared t-top auto is also a "stripper," no power options, leather, cruise, fog lights, traction control, or even a trunk release. It ran 13.52 stock, 2.11 60 ft. Not exactly great for an LS1. My g/f's first Z, a 2.73-geared hardtop auto with all the options except leather ran 13.36 (better 60 ft though). I trapped 105.79 stock with pretty good weather, the DA was probably just above sea level, and now 106.71 in warm (not too hot) weather with just the lid and cutout.
Vettes are definitely faster, maybe a coupla tenths all else being equal. They weigh considerably less and have the same drivetrain.


ORIGINAL: ThisBlood147

From all I've heard it looks like GM just got a bit lazy and played a funny numbers game with the different LS1 F-bodies to make ppl feel justified in spending the extra money for the "higher end" models. I know they did offer some minor performance improvements via exhaust and suspension.....but not enough to justify some of the markups I used to see. Back in 2000 I went with my best friend to a dealership to look at the Camaros and they had the Z's stickered at 23K and an SS stickered at 30K. My buddy (despite being diehard GM) didn't realize the small differences between the two models and refused to settle for the Z28 (thinking that the SS must be leaps and bounds faster). Now he kicks himself because they were close to being the same in performance, if not the exact same. Too bad now he can't afford even a used one.:eek:

Live and learn...

You are correct in all of the above.

ORIGINAL: JD1969

I hear what you are saying, but I consider that to be the fault of the buyer. It's not like GM is the only one to ever mess with HP ratings, I remember a certain year Cobra that Ford overrated yet made way less power. We (LS1 guys) knew about the BS ratings right away.


Come on. 10-20hp isnt much at all (I know, its not REAL, but its rated at about 20hp more). Seriously, thats a lid/cat-back. I think it is the fault of the buyer as well for thinking 10-20hp would make a huge difference. I feel bad for him that he didnt even get that though. HOWEVER, they did a test on air mass in g coming through the MAf with a hypertech datalogger setup and discovered ram air in 3rd gear in the midrange on a 97 WS6 IS WORTH about 5-8whp. Hehe :) I have links if anyone cares to PM me, its just on LS1tech and I dont feel like hunting for it.

Well, as I said......my friend isn't the "sharpest" guy when it comes to buying cars. Hell, he's saving up for the new Camaro when they come out...........thinks the top of the line model (whether that's the SS or not) will come off the show floor putting 500hp to the back wheels, AND it will only cost about 30K.:eek: I'm like.....DUDE, even the Z06 doesn't put 500 to the back tire off the factory floor........and that car stickers for over 60K. But he insists he knows better. He's just gonna set himself up for disappointment again via poor research. A sad state of affairs indeed when his mustang owning best friend knows more about his beloved Camaros than he does. He didn't even know what the LS7 was until I told him about it.[sm=insomnia.gif]

So its my understanding that there were a few LS1 F-body buyers were taken in by GM's HP number finangling.....unfortunately.

Auto vettes I've seen sucked, no better times than an Fbody. My first "kill" was a c5 (don't know exactly what year he wouldnt stop), White auto. Ran him 3x times 2 from a roll one at like 20 mph one at 40 mph and the other from a stop. I won all 3. Let out at like 110 which is a little more than I trap so roughly a 1/4. He was well behind like 2 or 3 cars everytime and wasnt gaining so he let out. The last run I shifted manually and hit the limiter going into second and he caught up to like my bumper then I pulled him again. All I had was K&N filter and muffler cut off going over the axle. Don't know what he had other than some Z06 rims on it (knew it wasnt a Z06 though) but obviously not enough. Vettes dont weigh that much less as they are listed as 3246 curb. I weighed mine at the dump scales with me in it (205 lb) both kids (maybe 100 between them) and 1/2 tank of gas and the scale said 3606. C5's are heavier than youd think.

ORIGINAL: slims00ls1z28

Auto vettes I've seen sucked, no better times than an Fbody. My first "kill" was a c5 (don't know exactly what year he wouldnt stop), White auto. Ran him 3x times 2 from a roll one at like 20 mph one at 40 mph and the other from a stop. I won all 3. Let out at like 110 which is a little more than I trap so roughly a 1/4. He was well behind like 2 or 3 cars everytime and wasnt gaining so he let out. The last run I shifted manually and hit the limiter going into second and he caught up to like my bumper then I pulled him again. All I had was K&N filter and muffler cut off going over the axle. Don't know what he had other than some Z06 rims on it (knew it wasnt a Z06 though) but obviously not enough. Vettes dont weigh that much less as they are listed as 3246 curb. I weighed mine at the dump scales with me in it (205 lb) both kids (maybe 100 between them) and 1/2 tank of gas and the scale said 3606. C5's are heavier than youd think.




Vette's are like mildly lightened F-bods with IRS as far as performance goes pretty much.

I believe GM has always done the numbers game...they did it back in the day also. The C4 Corvette was rated at 250HP, while the basically same IROC-Z was rated at 245HP. Then the Camaro a couple years before that was rated at 190HP, and the Monte Carlo SS with the same basic engine was rated at 180HP... They just don't wanna piss off Camaro/Corvette loyalists. But if I bought an SS Camaro over a Z28 Camaro, it would be to actually have a "SS".

ORIGINAL: stanger88


ORIGINAL: slims00ls1z28

Auto vettes I've seen sucked, no better times than an Fbody. My first "kill" was a c5 (don't know exactly what year he wouldnt stop), White auto. Ran him 3x times 2 from a roll one at like 20 mph one at 40 mph and the other from a stop. I won all 3. Let out at like 110 which is a little more than I trap so roughly a 1/4. He was well behind like 2 or 3 cars everytime and wasnt gaining so he let out. The last run I shifted manually and hit the limiter going into second and he caught up to like my bumper then I pulled him again. All I had was K&N filter and muffler cut off going over the axle. Don't know what he had other than some Z06 rims on it (knew it wasnt a Z06 though) but obviously not enough. Vettes dont weigh that much less as they are listed as 3246 curb. I weighed mine at the dump scales with me in it (205 lb) both kids (maybe 100 between them) and 1/2 tank of gas and the scale said 3606. C5's are heavier than youd think.




Vette's are like mildly lightened F-bods with IRS as far as performance goes pretty much.


The automatic C5 Vettes are slow because of their 2.73:1 gear ratios.

My g/f's first Camaro ran 13.36 @ 105 bone stock with 2.73 gears, so would a Vette that weighs 200 lbs or so less be capable of 13.1?
BTW, her 60 ft was .09 better than mine which explains most of the .16 difference.

If the C5 Convertibles were slow (13.5 with ghetto gears), does that mean our new GT's are SUPER slow(13.8)? 13.5 is not slow and remember, the LS1 will bitch slap us on Top-End.

I need one of them ram air hoods so I can be fast.:(

ORIGINAL: 05MidBlueGT

If the C5 Convertibles were slow (13.5 with ghetto gears), does that mean our new GT's are SUPER slow(13.8)? 13.5 is not slow and remember, the LS1 will bitch slap us on Top-End.

It's all relative. BTW, a new Mustang GT is a pretty damn good race for an LS1 F-body. I know from experience.

LSX engines suck

Yeah, but the old LS1 always bitch slaps our GT on top-end.

I wouldn't say bitch slap, crawl away maybe (at least that's how my race with an S197 GT went).

Not to diss the 3V GT's..........owning one myself[8D].............but I still have a hard time with the 300hp GT being a driver's race for the 345-350ish hp LS1. I never raced a stock one when I was stock, so I have no first hand experience.......it just seems weird. I know a bad enough driver can handicap the hp advantage of his car pretty badly.....but damn. Its not like there's a big weight difference (that I know of).

I do know that the new GT's put their power down pretty effectively even on stock suspension (or mildy modded suspension).....but they struggle once u start going FI. Hence the reason I want to overhaul my suspension. Car feels entirely too "squishy" now that I'm 160hp over stock.[:'(]

I'm actually trying to find someone with a stock or mostly stock LS1 F-body to buddy up with so I can get a ride (or possibly a drive) in one. I'm curious as to how different the powerband feels compared to my car. So far, no luck. I've met and talked to a few owners on chance meetings and such......but the only guys I know are the two dorks I work with, and they both have gone into the motor for mods......ie: not close to stock.

There is no question the LS1 is a better engine than the 4.6 IMO.

ORIGINAL: lovescamaros25

There is no question the LS1 is a better engine than the 4.6 IMO.

Yay, your post count goes up by one...................here's a cookie.:eek:

ORIGINAL: lovescamaros25

There is no question the LS1 is a better engine than the 4.6 IMO.

Which 4.6? Not the blown version, that's for sure.;)

ORIGINAL: ThisBlood147

I'm actually trying to find someone with a stock or mostly stock LS1 F-body to buddy up with so I can get a ride (or possibly a drive) in one. I'm curious as to how different the powerband feels compared to my car. So far, no luck. I've met and talked to a few owners on chance meetings and such......but the only guys I know are the two dorks I work with, and they both have gone into the motor for mods......ie: not close to stock.

Mine is fairly close, I just have the lid and the headers. I can swap the lidfor the stockerand keeping the cap on the cutout with the stock muffler pretty much negates the headers. Hell,I haven't even had it tuned for the headers soit might actually be slower than stock. But you live really far from me.

Yea, I think your car would fit the bill nicely Tommy. If only I had a good excuse (and the vacation time) to take a run up your way sometime.[&o]

P.S. Get a tune on that thing man. Poor Z[8D]

9 Year Old LS1 is still faster then current GT. We can, but numbers don't lie...

ORIGINAL: TommyV8

ORIGINAL: lovescamaros25

There is no question the LS1 is a better engine than the 4.6 IMO.

Which 4.6? Not the blown version, that's for sure.;)
I have to argue yes the "blown4.6" is better for modding for crazy hp. But the engine itself is not better. Anybody can throw in some forged parts or what have you. Take the 01 cobra 32v and then compare it to the 01 SS LS1. If you start comparing the ls1 to the terminator you arespeaking ofa topic that has been beat to death. A built LS1 vs a built 32v.... 281 vs 346 I don't about you but I know which one I am taking.

ORIGINAL: 05MidBlueGT

9 Year Old LS1 is still faster then current GT. We can, but numbers don't lie...


11 year old LS1. :D

Im not going to make this seem like a big argument but come on 281 ci vs 346ci? How does a 347 stack up to a 346 b/c i know a guy who runs low 11s with a 347 and its a DD. As far as a semi stock 00 Trans Am vs. a stock 07 GT I got beat by about 2 cars length from a dig and a roll, but the problem was I launched at 2K rpms which after going to the track I have found out that I gain at least .3 seconds by launching at 4K rpms so if I would of known that then it would have been a little closer eh? Also my buddy in his 03 cobra STOCK ran a SS with full exhaust, cam, gears, and I believe intake and heads and walked him hard.
When i went to the track a t/a with a cam was running 13.3s and a SS making a sh!t load of noise was running 12.8s.

All im saying is that the driver makes a BIG diffrence.

If you have a heads and cam LS1 Camaro (or even just the cam) and you lose to a stock Cobra then you need to be put to sleep. A heads and cam LS1 should run at least low 11s; they can run 10s.

ORIGINAL: white07

Im not going to make this seem like a big argument but come on 281 ci vs 346ci? How does a 347 stack up to a 346 b/c i know a guy who runs low 11s with a 347 and its a DD. As far as a semi stock 00 Trans Am vs. a stock 07 GT I got beat by about 2 cars length from a dig and a roll, but the problem was I launched at 2K rpms which after going to the track I have found out that I gain at least .3 seconds by launching at 4K rpms so if I would of known that then it would have been a little closer eh? Also my buddy in his 03 cobra STOCK ran a SS with full exhaust, cam, gears, and I believe intake and heads and walked him hard.
When i went to the track a t/a with a cam was running 13.3s and a SS making a sh!t load of noise was running 12.8s.

All im saying is that the driver makes a BIG diffrence.

Ok just so you know a SS with cam heads exhaust and intake is capable of 500 rwhp plus the gears that would be a good race for a cobrapullied with boltons and would flat out murder a stock 03/04. I was at the track fri. night and a guy was running aSS w/headers, cam, and dr's he ran 11.9. And as far as your race goes it might have been closer but what if he didn't get a clean launch either eh? That 347 must be stroked, geared stalled or something to be running those numbers. with weight reduction.

ORIGINAL: white07

Im not going to make this seem like a big argument but come on 281 ci vs 346ci?

How about how the 346 only has one cam?Versus 4 in the DOHC Cobra's. Only 2V per head? Versus 4 in the Cobra's.

How does a 347 stack up to a 346 b/c i know a guy who runs low 11s with a 347 and its a DD.

Depends on the 347. I know my carwould have ran 11's with $1500 threw at it...most of that was in thedragradials.

As far as a semi stock 00 Trans Am vs. a stock 07 GT I got beat by about 2 cars length from a dig and a roll, but the problem was I launched at 2K rpms which after going to the track I have found out that I gain at least .3 seconds by launching at 4K rpms so if I would of known that then it would have been a little closer eh?

You can launch at 4k with a stock suspended GT and you actually hook? Amazing. And yes, it's pretty much a drivers race b/w the two cars, as mentioned. The LS1 should win, but doesn't a lot of the times.

Also my buddy in his 03 cobra STOCK ran a SS with full exhaust, cam, gears, and I believe intake and heads and walked him hard.

Again, obviously a bad driver. I had a buddy here recently in a bolt-on LS1 run 9.0's at the local 1/8th track and trap nearly 90mph.....in a bolt-on car. I was mid 7's with the same trap speed. Driver driver driver.

When i went to the track a t/a with a cam was running 13.3s and a SS making a sh!t load of noise was running 12.8s.

It takes a special person to run low 13's in a 400+rwhp car. I usually see those times with a terminator or a Supra, when you'd expect so much more.

All im saying is that the driver makes a BIG diffrence.


Nail, meet hammer.

I have a non tech question for some of you more LS1 car savy guys...

what are low low milage LS1 cars going for now days???

my gfs brother is in love with WS6's ... and we ran across a black '02 with 9K miles....

it was an auto and they wanted I believe 26K... is that high?

That's pretty high and he would have a hard time getting a loan for it. A fair price would be around $20-21k. The reality is that there is no reason to pay extra for a low mile car. There is no collector value and there is no factory warrenty. Find one with 20-40k on it and pay $12-15k

yea I would say thats pretty high.

He's not looking to buy one, we were just out looking at cars and he started drooling and screaming "Thats what I want, that's it.. AH!!!"

I just said, eh, awfully nice, but not for me ;-)

Uh, yea.........I'd say that 26K is pretty high for a car that is already 5 years old. That wouldn't be too far away from what they were at MSRP brand new back in 02..........I think. Of course, seems like there's been a rebound demand for the 00-02 F-bods, particularly the T/A's, in the last couple of years. I'm guessing that's from lack of a continued production on GM's part. High demand in a localized area can lead to high asking prices. In late 06 I came across an 01 WS6 with 23K miles on it.............guy was asking 21K for it. That might have been fine except for the crushed front nose.[&:]

In some places its just a sellers market.

And you're clueless. Not even worth the time to correct the BS you just posted. *Sigh* mom still dress you in the morning?

[quote]It takes a special person to run low 13's in a 400+rwhp car. I usually see those times with a terminator or a Supra, when you'd expect so much more.[quote]

having 400rwhp and only running low 13s kind of ghey? you should be able to half ass it off the line and punch it in 2nd gear and still run a high 12.

Oh well what i really wanted to know to clarify in one of my post (firehawk=ownage) is what year did they make firehawks? They made them in the LT1 and LS1 cars right?

ORIGINAL: S8ER01Z

And you're clueless. Not even worth the time to correct the BS you just posted. *Sigh* mom still dress you in the morning?


Your mom does yes! Please correct then and stop flaming *sigh*(how weak is that??) *sigh* *sigh* *sigh**Sigh*..............................nope *sigh*

Hey noob, this is supposed to be an informative forum for people who would like to learn from those who actually know what they're talking about. I have been on this Mustang forum for years (check the join date and post count) with no problems from anyone else, you have been here for like 20 minutes and appear to have nothing useful to add. If you have a problem with that, go talk to an admin/mod about it and see how far you get. I don't think it would go well for you though.
I don't care where you got that horsepower info, it is wrong.
BTW my 2002 car no longer being produced would take a dump on your 2006 that still has not caught up to where the LS1 was in 1996. Seriously.

Black*Death, please stop posting in an info thread if you have no useful info to give. You're arguing info that you dug up off of some website against actual LS1 owners' first hand knowledge......that seem sensible to you? And if you think all the LS1 guys are lying, then just give up and go post somewhere else......why beat your head against a brick wall???

The GMhp ratings on the LS1 F-bodies were just marketing BS. If you know so much about these cars, why do you need to come in here? Your gums are flapping a mile a minute......but you're only managing a few feet an hour.:eek:

Now, please crawl back to the 05-07 section..........and STAY there.[>:]

ORIGINAL: ThisBlood147

Black*Death, please stop posting in an info thread if you have no useful info to give. You're arguing info that you dug up off of some website against actual LS1 owners' first hand knowledge......that seem sensible to you? And if you think all the LS1 guys are lying, then just give up and go post somewhere else......why beat your head against a brick wall???

The GMhp ratings on the LS1 F-bodies were just marketing BS. If you know so much about these cars, why do you need to come in here? Your gums are flapping a mile a minute......but you're only managing a few feet an hour.:eek:

Now, please crawl back to the 05-07 section..........and STAY there.[>:]


I did try and post useful info and got flamed for it so don't feel I had "no useful info to give". Edmunds.com is a very good authority on vehicles so wouldn't call it "digging" up. Tommy V8 went into tirade insulting me and telling me never post again. I'll post where ever I want dude. Also your info seems to back me up so..............why the flame for correct info huh?

I seriously doubt the ls1's were putting out 320 @ the crank because I have seen a few dyno right around300to the wheels, they are underated simply for the fact that they were selling vette's with the same engine but for almost twice as much. Its all marketing GM knew the vette guy's would get butthurt had they known their vette was only putting outabout the samehp than maro/transam. Gm has been doing it for years.

ORIGINAL: stanger99

I seriously doubt the ls1's were putting out 320 @ the crank because I have seen a few dyno right around300to the wheels, they are underated simply for the fact that they were selling vette's with the same engine but for almost twice as much. Its all marketing GM knew the vette guy's would get butthurt had they known their vette was only putting outabout the samehp than maro/transam. Gm has been doing it for years.


Ok thanks for the info. That's all I wanted to discuss with people. Thanks for posting and not simply flaming

ORIGINAL: Black*Death

ORIGINAL: ThisBlood147

Black*Death, please stop posting in an info thread if you have no useful info to give. You're arguing info that you dug up off of some website against actual LS1 owners' first hand knowledge......that seem sensible to you? And if you think all the LS1 guys are lying, then just give up and go post somewhere else......why beat your head against a brick wall???

The GMhp ratings on the LS1 F-bodies were just marketing BS. If you know so much about these cars, why do you need to come in here? Your gums are flapping a mile a minute......but you're only managing a few feet an hour.:eek:

Now, please crawl back to the 05-07 section..........and STAY there.[>:]


I did try and post useful info and got flamed for it so don't feel I had "no useful info to give". Edmunds.com is a very good authority on vehicles so wouldn't call it "digging" up. Tommy V8 went into tirade insulting me and telling me never post again. I'll post where ever I want dude. Also your info seems to back me up so..............why the flame for correct info huh?


Blood 147 is right, When the LS1 Camaro came out chevy put down very pestimistic numbers to try and make it look farther away from the LS1 corvette. they didnt want buyers to see their affourdible muscle car to be able to touch their high end exspensive sport car so they published lower numbers than what the car acully has stock. I see alot of car info sites take their HP ratings directly from the manufacture as they are the ones who made the car, however its not always acurate.

" Cars still only made 320 HP according to Edmunds so stock you would not beat me with tune and CAI."

Seriously have you ever raced a LS1? Im not discounting the new GT, their HP numbers are respectible, but a tune & CAI will not be able to take an LS1.

ORIGINAL: Black*Death

I did try and post useful info and got flamed for it so don't feel I had "no useful info to give". Edmunds.com is a very good authority on vehicles so wouldn't call it "digging" up. Tommy V8 went into tirade insulting me and telling me never post again. I'll post where ever I want dude. Also your info seems to back me up so..............why the flame for correct info huh?

My post was not a flame..........trust me. But there has been an influx of 05+ Mustang owners into this section lately who swear by the manufacturer's (GM) hp ratings on the LS1 F-bodies......and truly don't know what they're talking about. Problem was, you were starting to sound like one of them.

Yes, GM's hp ratings were BS. They were BS, cuz......as everyone here has said.....GM underrated them by 20-30hp. An LS1 Camaro actually makes closer to 350hp, not 320. Thats real world dyno-proven. The quicker you accept that, the better a place the world will be for you.;)

And you are free to post where you want, but if all you're gonna do is argue with ppl who have first hand experience with something that you don't, then you're gonna do nothing but spin your tires in the Street/Strip section. It is the unofficial "gumbo" section of this website.............lots of guys who fancy, own, and drive lots of different cars.....not just Mustangs. If you're down with that, and you're willing to listen and learn something.......you will be welcomed. Now let's just get back to info posting in this thread.....and let the mini-flamewar die off. Thanks.:)

Correct an S197 with tune and CAI should be a really good race for a well driven LS1 car...

ORIGINAL: TommyV8
...... And no tuning at all.

You lucky bastards who don't have Hal 9000 computers running your cars[>:]

[8D][8D][8D]

OK enough. I put this up as an info only thread and don't want to have to lock it. Blackdealth next time you have an issue don't crap up my sticky, just PM the person or somthing but don't get into a e-fight in a sticky. I will be deleting yours and anyone elses posts in thread that do not have concrete info. BTW Edmunds is NOT I repeat NOT givin the correct info on these cars. All Edmunds does is regurgitate whatever the factory (GM in this case) tells them. While Tommy might have been a bit harsh and I don't condone flaming, we are getting tired of people who try and tell us that we wrong when what we are saying is fact.

Yeah I was a bit harsh with Black Death I guess, just very tired of the bad info (of which there is plenty in this forum). Sorry.

No problem. I wasn't trying to insult anyone with original post just saw everyone all over the place with HPnumbers and was trying to put out numbers I found.

That's understandible, but please realize that magazines and internet site like Edmunds almost never have the info or 1/4 times on cars that are correct.

Can a mod clean out the BS or do you guys want to leave it? I would imagine a number of post in here are pretty useless (like mine [8D])

I can do it, but right now I don't have the time. I just realized that your an MFBA'er. It took me awhile to put 2 and 2 together[8D], but you are out by Cordova right? My brother used to live in Albany, he worked at the Nuke plant.

What is the difference between the LS1 and the LS6 besides power levels? They both have the same cubic inch rating?

ORIGINAL: 99GTvert

What is the difference between the LS1 and the LS6 besides power levels? They both have the same cubic inch rating?


Basically better block, better cam (stock wise), better heads, better intake manifold. Here's a little piece straight from Wiki:

"The LS6 shares its basic block design with the GM LS1 engine, but other changes were made such as windows cast into the block between cylinders. An improved intake manifold, higher-lift cam, and higher compression ratio boost output compared to the LS1, and a new oiling system is better suited to high lateral acceleration."

Yep MFBA :)I live a whole 3 miles from the Track... it hurts sometimes driving past on myway home on Fridays knowing Ican't stop and race. LOL

To add to what JET said, The LS1 in 2001+ modelshas the same intake manifold design as the LS6 but not the other improvements as listed.

My 98 TransAm was rated at 305hp and it was dead on. I was upset with the power so I bought an exhaust system to correct the problem. It then dyno'ed 325rwhp and 340'ish rwtq. It was super slow without the exhaust, definately felt like a 260rwhp'ish car. The exhaust picked it up another 65 rwhp or so and it really pulled hard, even for an automatic!

Who says the LS1's aren't best mod for mod? 65rwhp with just an exhaust setup! I should advertise for them.

ORIGINAL: 98LS1

Who says the LS1's aren't best mod for mod? 65rwhp with just an exhaust setup! I should advertise for them.

You already do. You are a walking talking LS1 commercial. Might as well start getting paid for it.[8D]

ORIGINAL: 98LS1

My 98 TransAm was rated at 305hp and it was dead on. I was upset with the power so I bought an exhaust system to correct the problem. It then dyno'ed 325rwhp and 340'ish rwtq. It was super slow without the exhaust, definately felt like a 260rwhp'ish car. The exhaust picked it up another 65 rwhp or so and it really pulled hard, even for an automatic!

Who says the LS1's aren't best mod for mod? 65rwhp with just an exhaust setup! I should advertise for them.


LOL! Best post by far that I've read on here.

well I don't know if they are best mod for mod but it sure does beat modding a 2V

What is the point of this thread?

belive it was made a sticky to eliminate confusion about the LS1

ORIGINAL: 98LS1

My 98 TransAm was rated at 305hp and it was dead on. I was upset with the power so I bought an exhaust system to correct the problem. It then dyno'ed 325rwhp and 340'ish rwtq. It was super slow without the exhaust, definately felt like a 260rwhp'ish car. The exhaust picked it up another 65 rwhp or so and it really pulled hard, even for an automatic!

Who says the LS1's aren't best mod for mod? 65rwhp with just an exhaust setup! I should advertise for them.


what did you add exactly? headers, midpipe, catback what brand? that sounds like something a lot of ls1 owners can benifit from, or are you just saying in general that happens all the time with all ls1's no matter what

OMG...can a mod please delete this... He posted a serious reply to 98LS1!!! I only see this going downhill.

The brand of headers really doesn't matter, they all do the same thing. Just different fitment and quality of materials.
I got a nice boost of power from my exhaust work, went from 13.38 @ 105 to 13.16 @ 108, in slightly warmer weather even. On a worse 60 ft (2.13vs 2.18). And no tuning.
Weather is cooler today, gonna try for a 12.999 tonight.

ORIGINAL: pandaj
what did you add exactly? headers, midpipe, catback what brand? that sounds like something a lot of ls1 owners can benifit from, or are you just saying in general that happens all the time with all ls1's no matter what


Here's exactly what I did. I put on some LT headers, $400 brand new and ceramic coated, and slapped on an x-pipe, $250'ish I believe brand new with mufflers. Then I went and got it dyno'd. Still factory tune.

I've seen manual cars make 350rwhp with the same setup as my car at that time, and even more than that with a good tune slapped on it.

My cars very well documented, so if you have any other questions, just ask. I know you're kinda skeptical about them.

i ran 13.1 without headers and went 12.7 with headers and tune

ORIGINAL: S8ER01Z

OMG...can a mod please delete this... He posted a serious reply to 98LS1!!! I only see this going downhill.
:D

ORIGINAL: joshafmil

ORIGINAL: S8ER01Z

OMG...can a mod please delete this... He posted a serious reply to 98LS1!!! I only see this going downhill.
:D


I got a good laugh out of it.[sm=icon_rofl.gif]

I still think he beleives that 98LS1 gained 65rwhp with exhaust... (going from 260rwhp to 325rwhp) instead of the ~20rwhp he actually gained.

ORIGINAL: S8ER01Z

I still think he beleives that 98LS1 gained 65rwhp with exhaust... (going from 260rwhp to 325rwhp) instead of the ~20rwhp he actually gained.


i thought i should believe a guy with his own car getting dyno numbers but i guess not lol, just trying to learn, i'm not skeptical at all, i learned they can be serious bolt on beast but i was just asking a question, i guess there was a lot i missed about this particular post that others just find extremely funny. so i assume from what s8er01z said you gained 20rwhp 305-325

^^ thats really me, forgot i was on my bro's computer haha

Yeah he can confirm what he actually gained..but he was poking fun at the fact he was rated 305 at the crank and put down more than that stock..then added exhaust (which he gained as much as any other car would with exhaust) and according to GMs rated numbers that meant he picked up a rediculous amount of power instead of the normal amount he actually got. :) I will take it easy on you at least you are trying to read on it. Later

i was about to say that sounds normal for full exhaust

got it, good lookin, new to gm but open to learning about the competitor, question may seem dum to u but i'd rather ask here then meet up with a guy and say, "you only got 20hp from your ls1 exhaust? i no a guy who got 65 lol, i'd prolly never here the end of it...

EXACTLY!!

nice.. all are great engines... the ls3 is a beast...

umm.. all i can say is wow.. i was looking for HPvs$ and thought the new mustang GT beat all... (ofcourse I had only been looking at new cars) still... almost dissapointed in my buy.. ahh.. except i think the new mustang is the sexiest looking car to come out in awhile (atleast until the new challenger & camaro come out)... very impressive info on that camaro though (and im actually abit of a chevy fan, just always liked the mustang's body better)

ORIGINAL: Mishri

umm.. all i can say is wow.. i was looking for HPvs$ and thought the new mustang GT beat all... (ofcourse I had only been looking at new cars) still... almost dissapointed in my buy.. ahh.. except i think the new mustang is the sexiest looking car to come out in awhile (atleast until the new challenger & camaro come out)... very impressive info on that camaro though (and im actually abit of a chevy fan, just always liked the mustang's body better)


To each their own, as they say. :) Personally I have no interest in buying anything else at the moment. My Z does it for me more than the New Camaro, or any other car. Of course the new Challenger is dead sexy (damn it hurts to say that).. but luckily it looks to be a pig so I am still content with what I have. :)

ORIGINAL: S8ER01Z


ORIGINAL: Mishri

umm.. all i can say is wow.. i was looking for HPvs$ and thought the new mustang GT beat all... (ofcourse I had only been looking at new cars) still... almost dissapointed in my buy.. ahh.. except i think the new mustang is the sexiest looking car to come out in awhile (atleast until the new challenger & camaro come out)... very impressive info on that camaro though (and im actually abit of a chevy fan, just always liked the mustang's body better)


To each their own, as they say. :) Personally I have no interest in buying anything else at the moment. My Z does it for me more than the New Camaro, or any other car. Of course the new Challenger is dead sexy (damn it hurts to say that).. but luckily it looks to be a pig so I am still content with what I have. :)


I personally dont see the challenger becomeing a major threat mainly becouse of the HUGE dealer mark up thats going to be on them.....And the fact that it's only offering will be a V8 which will kill sales.

I wish the F-Body was V8s only... haha... look at the Corvette, V6s sales are not needed if the car isn't built to be a mass market machine.

ORIGINAL: S8ER01Z

I wish the F-Body was V8s only... haha... look at the Corvette, V6s sales are not needed if the car isn't built to be a mass market machine.


then what would be the point of the corvette....the f-body isa vette ina different skin with some other changes mainly rear end.....

I know... poor mans vette... it had to die...

yea, plus you wouldnt be able to get a nice LS1 today for $12K if they didnt make the V6s. They would probly cost alot more.

Wouldn't have bothered me one bit.

Some of (no offense v6 guys) realize the F-body is a peice of trash with a gift under the hood...take away the gift and I would never have purchased one in my life.

ORIGINAL: S8ER01Z

Wouldn't have bothered me one bit.

Some of (no offense v6 guys) realize the F-body is a peice of trash with a gift under the hood...take away the gift and I would never have purchased one in my life.


No offense taken, but I have a different take on my car. I love it for what it is. Sure I could have gone the 1/4 mile a couple seconds faster and gone around that corner .35 seconds faster if I would have gotten a Z28. But I really like my car and Have alot of fun with it. Somday Ill get my C5 and have alot of fun with an LS1 too. But for now im loving what I have.

For some different perspective, GM rated my '02 Z28 at 310 hp, while if you go to nhra.com and look around you can find tables of power ratings of stock cars, and nhra rates my '02 Z28 at 349 hp.

As I understand the differences, in 01 they changed to the ls6 intake but put a milder came which mostly evened out. Any difference in factory power ratings between models was mostly for marketing, but maybe a couple ponies for a different cat-back and lid, which nobody keeps stock anyway. By the way, my Z, about as stock as you get with a lid, kn, and catback, and it was the only time I ever went to a drag strip, with my manual tranny, I ran like 6 13.4's at 106-107.

Also, some people say how the 10bolt rears are weak, but mine is the original with 99k miles on it and god knows how many times I've powershifted through to a 3rd gear chirp, and my rear still works mint.

can someone look at my sig and tell me why that code is showing up instead of my sig pic? then I'll just delete this message, thanks.

The Ls series is deffinately something every american should be proud of i mean they were designed to perform

you guy notice how there is always a Ford vs Chevy debate and i don't see that ending anytime soon and i like the Chevy enigines and say they would be the **** in a mustang notice i said mustang not Ford hehe

ok now on to my question this is to all the chevy diehards how do Chevies stack up to Hemis and why are Hemis never metioned i personally think that they aren't given enough credit and is it true that Chevy wants to/has already sued Dodge for their engines being Ls like?

and weren't the orininal terrors of the 1/4 mile Hemis who makes the most powerful enigne Chevy or Dodge ford isn't in this i'm talking Na form of course that the only form that counts this includes crates 2 thanks in advan